Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

[Abramelin]

Puzz, your Wiki link also says this:

The name derives from the Latin tunica, the basic garment worn by both men and women in Ancient Rome, which in turn was based on earlier Greek garments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunic

And how did those Greeks call these garments?

CHITON.

χιτών, khitōn

Edited April 9, 2013 by Abramelin

[Ott]

you sure you're not Otharus?

When a student is mistaken for her teacher, it is a compliment.

[Abramelin]

Many allright, certainly not all and besides seperate words I do whole fragments too.

Remember the Frisia maps?

Here's something else, for the shortsighted paper research team:

Source: wikipedia/Cai_Lun

Frisia maps. Are they really ancient, like 4000 to 3000 years old? I thought not.

[Abramelin]

When a student is mistaken for her teacher, it is a compliment.

It means she blindly copies what her teacher told her.

Or - in this case - the two are one and the same person.

[Ott]

Apparently you didn't click the links about metathesis:

I know that sounds can change, but I have seen more beliefworthy examples.

If it would be the only available option, I would be willing to consider it, but I just said and still say, that the Oldfrisian option is more plausible.

It does not need the metathesis-explanation which is more far-fetched.

I repeat: this thread has an overwhelming number of Oldfrisian (and other Nordic) etymologies that are much better than the oldschool ones.

It can no longer be denied that a new way of looking at etymology will have to be seriously considered.

[Ott]

Frisia maps.

That was a reply to your BS remark "most if not all of your posts are about dissecting words".

[Abramelin]

I know that sounds can change, but I have seen more beliefworthy examples.

If it would be the only available option, I would be willing to consider it, but I just said and still say, that the Oldfrisian option is more plausible.

It does not need the metathesis-explanation which is more far-fetched.

I repeat: this thread has an overwhelming number of Oldfrisian (and other Nordic) etymologies that are much better than the oldschool ones.

It can no longer be denied that a new way of looking at etymology will have to be seriously considered.

Your point of view will become more acceptable when you provide us with truly ancient sources.

The Old Frisian dictionaries we all here use are from the 10th to the 13th century. Much older sources are the Greek and Roman ones, even the Phoenician ones.

And if you think the metathesis explanation is far-fetched, then you don't know how words are being adopted and changed.

[Abramelin]

That was a reply to your BS remark "most if not all of your posts are about dissecting words".

But they are, lol.

I think Puzz and I are the only ones in this thread who quote from really ancient sources and archeology.

[Abramelin]

Gestur, I'd like you to read this thread I started a couple of days ago:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=245911

It's about an unknown civilization, and notice how old it is...

I am not averse of accepting evidence of an unknown ancient civilization, quite the opposite, but I prefer archeological finds above nitpicking about words.

[Abramelin]

i would say in three stages , 1st just the king and his court ,in 597 bc , the 2nd en-masse in 587 bc , and the 3rd in 582 bc

from page 123 of Tresoar .......that is thruch tha Dorra Wostena , that is thruch et land that Irtha upheid uta sea . tha hiu hiv strete after usa ETHELA up heide as hia Inna Rade se kemon..

That is through the land that irtha had heaved up out of the sea , when she had raised up the strait as soon as OUR FOREFATHERS had passed into the Red Sea ..( They seem to think they are jewish ethnicity at this point )

and then Cy-RUS eventually overcame the Babylonians and set them free .

The Jews were the slaves in Slavia , working for the Babylonians is my guess ,

that is thruch tha Dorra Wostena = that is through the arid desert (DU: "dorre woestijn").

They seem to think they are jewish ethnicity at this point - No, it's just that their forefathers passed through the Strait and entered the Red Sea..

=

The name Cyrus is a Latinized form derived from a Greek form of the Old Persian Kūruš. The name and its meaning has been recorded in ancient inscriptions in different languages. The ancient Greek historians Ctesias and Plutarch noted that Cyrus was named from Kuros, the Sun, a concept which has been interpreted as meaning "like the Sun" (Khurvash) by noting its relation to the Persian noun for sun, khor, while using -vash as a suffix of likeness.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyrus_the_Great

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Edited April 9, 2013 by Abramelin

[NO-ID-EA]

that is thruch tha Dorra Wostena = that is through the arid desert (DU: "dorre woestijn").

They seem to think they are jewish ethnicity at this point - No, it's just that their forefathers passed through the Strait and entered the Red Sea..

=

The name Cyrus is a Latinized form derived from a Greek form of the Old Persian Kūru¨. The name and its meaning has been recorded in ancient inscriptions in different languages. The ancient Greek historians Ctesias and Plutarch noted that Cyrus was named from Kuros, the Sun, a concept which has been interpreted as meaning "like the Sun" (Khurvash) by noting its relation to the Persian noun for sun, khor, while using -vash as a suffix of likeness.

http://en.wikipedia....Cyrus_the_Great

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.......Come on .... they are deffinately alluding to the time the strait was raised as SOON as their ETHELA had passed through ,( as per the Sandbach translation ) and so they are claiming the same ethnicity as those in the biblical story .............and not just that their forefathers passed through it at sometime . Edited April 9, 2013 by NO-ID-EA

[The Puzzler]

Gadir and Gades have no etymological relationship. Gades is nothing but the way the Romans start calling Gadir after Scipio conquered the city.

And why did the Romans give it the name "Gades"? Most likely because the Phoenicians considered it to be a 'holy city', Qadesh, and used that word in daily use.

-

I can't remember right now what Old Frisian word you used, but the closest Old Frisian word to "Gadir" I found is "gaderia", or 'gathering'. Like I said a while back, it had everything to do with "people/things close together within one area".

No, the word was more like tohnekka, with mixed consonants, it's OK, I'll search the topic here.

Greeks called it Gadeiros, so my guess is Roman Gades is a variation of this word, a shorter form.

[The Puzzler]

Puzz, your Wiki link also says this:

The name derives from the Latin tunica, the basic garment worn by both men and women in Ancient Rome, which in turn was based on earlier Greek garments.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunic

And how did those Greeks call these garments?

CHITON.

χιτών, khitōn

I know what you're saying but I think there are enough allowances for it to be a different word.

That is cotton, coat, probably even curtain - I do not think it is tunic. Tunica in Latin could come from Fryan, is my stance.

The khiton was a tunic type garment though.

[Abramelin]

.......Come on .... they are deffinately alluding to the time the strait was raised as SOON as their ETHELA had passed through ,( as per the Sandbach translation ) and so they are claiming the same ethnicity as those in the biblical story .............and not just that their forefathers passed through it at sometime .

Kêmon wi anda muda thêre Êuphrat, sa machton wi thêr en stêd kiasa jeftha omkêra, vs lân skold vs êvin blyd to dêlath wrde. An tha nya skêpa, thêr tha brônd vntkvma wêron, let-er Johniar aend Krêkalandar gâ. Hi selva gvng mith sin ôra folk allingen thêre kâd thrvch tha dorra wostêna, thaet is thrvch et land thaet Irtha vphêid hêde uta sê, tha hju thju strête after vsa êthela vphêide as hja inna Râde sê kêmon.

Tha wy to ny Gêrtmanja kêmon...

When we arrived at the mouth of the Euphrates, we might either choose a place to settle there or come back. Our pay would be guaranteed to us the same in either case. Upon the new ships which had been saved from the fire he embarked the Joniers and the Greeks. He himself went with the rest of his people along the coast, through the barren wilderness; that is, through the land that she had heaved up out of the sea when she had raised up the strait as soon as our forefathers had passed into the Red Sea.

When we arrived at New Gertmania...

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#bp

He went from the mouth of the Euphrates to New Geertmania (Carmania on the map). The land he passed had been heaved out of the sea, at the same time as when the Suez Strait had been heaved up out of the sea after their forefathers had passed through it.

[Abramelin]

I know what you're saying but I think there are enough allowances for it to be a different word.

That is cotton, coat, probably even curtain - I do not think it is tunic. Tunica in Latin could come from Fryan, is my stance.

The khiton was a tunic type garment though.

So the Romans adopted a garment from the Greeks, a garment the Greeks called khiton, and which the Romans called tunica.

For me it's a simple and clear example of metathesis.

[NO-ID-EA]

I know i speculate too much for everyones liking , but once i have these thoughts i like to get them off my chest , so i am just going to put them in a post , and if everyone wants to ignore that post , i dont have a problem with that , because most of the time i know i will be wrong .

from one of the books Abe posted the coast of Spain/Portugal was where the phoenicians found metal ores , and it seems they brought slaves to mine them , the people who were native dont seem to have discovered metal yet, or had any use for it , from the word Gadir , came the word Gades , Cadiz , ....from this word it seems to me they could also use Kadiz ,Khades , and from that Hades.........from the hard life of a slave breaking rocks , and then making large fires , smelting rocks to obtain the metal could be how the legend of Hades , a place of forced labour , with fire , and no opportunity to escape , could have emerged .

there was one group of warriors that refused to go outside the pillars of hercules , because they said they would fight for their king anywhere in the world , but they would not go to fight outside the world , which is what they considered was the other side of the pillars . this then could add to the legend , all the time you are in the world you are alive, but if you were sent to hades , you were outside the world , were never seen again , so you were dead in hades (Gades).

In Idrisi,s world map (1154) called 'Tabula Rogeriana' Kadis is shown as an island seperate from the mainland next to an island called Saltis, both of them are outside the world , Britain has very few towns but a couple of them are Londrs (of course i am going to say land of Rus ) Dobrs (Dover ?) and Hastinks (Hastings)

the map has been made upside down, i dont know if you guys /gals know if that was usual at this time ??

www.bigmapblog.com/2011/idrisis-tabula-rogeriana-world-map-reproduction/

[NO-ID-EA]

Kêmon wi anda muda thêre Êuphrat, sa machton wi thêr en stêd kiasa jeftha omkêra, vs lân skold vs êvin blyd to dêlath wrde. An tha nya skêpa, thêr tha brônd vntkvma wêron, let-er Johniar aend Krêkalandar gâ. Hi selva gvng mith sin ôra folk allingen thêre kâd thrvch tha dorra wostêna, thaet is thrvch et land thaet Irtha vphêid hêde uta sê, tha hju thju strête after vsa êthela vphêide as hja inna Râde sê kêmon.

Tha wy to ny Gêrtmanja kêmon...

When we arrived at the mouth of the Euphrates, we might either choose a place to settle there or come back. Our pay would be guaranteed to us the same in either case. Upon the new ships which had been saved from the fire he embarked the Joniers and the Greeks. He himself went with the rest of his people along the coast, through the barren wilderness; that is, through the land that she had heaved up out of the sea when she had raised up the strait as soon as our forefathers had passed into the Red Sea.

When we arrived at New Gertmania...

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#bp

He went from the mouth of the Euphrates to New Geertmania (Carmania on the map). The land he passed had been heaved out of the sea, at the same time as when the Suez Strait had been heaved up out of the sea after their forefathers had passed through it.

I think you are trying to muddy the waters here Abe , i know it is later in Alexanders campaign they are writing about , and i know they mention the euphrates. but ignore the rest of it its not relevant to what i am saying :-.........Acc to Sandbach it says.....as soon as our ethela had passed into the red sea........the question here is , are they saying they are the same bloodline as those that passed into the red sea, does ethela relate to ethnicity , ........or are they just saying after the flood there was only Noah and his family left , so to anyone alive now they were a forefather ???

Edited April 10, 2013 by NO-ID-EA

[Abramelin]

I think you are trying to muddy the waters here Abe , i know it is later in Alexanders campaign they are writing about , and i know they mention the euphrates. but ignore the rest of it its not relevant to what i am saying :-.........Acc to Sandbach it says.....as soon as our ethela had passed into the red sea........the question here is , are they saying they are the same bloodline as those that passed into the red sea, does ethela relate to ethnicity , ........or are they just saying after the flood there was only Noah and his family left , so anyone alive now is a forefather ???

I am not 'muddying the waters', I actually copied the paragraph you were talking about.

This is Sandbach's translation, and it is accurate enough:

When we arrived at the mouth of the Euphrates, we might either choose a place to settle there or come back. Our pay would be guaranteed to us the same in either case. Upon the new ships which had been saved from the fire he embarked the Joniers and the Greeks. He himself went with the rest of his people along the coast, through the barren wilderness; that is, through the land that she had heaved up out of the sea when she had raised up the strait as soon as our forefathers had passed into the Red Sea.

When we arrived at New Gertmania...

I think it's you who is muddying the waters by not reading carefully.

[Abramelin]

the map has been made upside down, i dont know if you guys /gals know if that was usual at this time ??

www.bigmapblog.com/2011/idrisis-tabula-rogeriana-world-map-reproduction/

Yes, I have saved a couple of online medieval maps which are upside down.

And this is a screenshot of Idrissi's map:

Where is the island?

Edited April 10, 2013 by Abramelin

[NO-ID-EA]

Yes, I have saved a couple of online medieval maps which are upside down.

And this is a screenshot of Idrissi's map:

Where is the island?

Just slightly under your screenshot , under almarin is seris and Kadis is facing it , with saltis just below that .

[Abramelin]

Just slightly under your screenshot , under almarin is seris and Kadis is facing it , with saltis just below that .

Ah ok, I see it now:

I got a bit distracted by the "Al-Gézira" name.

[NO-ID-EA]

Ah ok, I see it now:

I got a bit distracted by the "Al-Gézira" name.

go further out to the right Abe , and you can see the longtitude, or latitudal markings on the side of the map .........near kadiz you can see the slightly different colour of the map , and that the markings dont line up with the outside marking ... ie 41 degrees on the map dont line up with 41 degrees on the outside ,

it looks like this part of the map has either been repaired. re- calibrated or ! .some event has moved the earths latitude slightly ???.....remember we were told the earth moved very slightly after the japanese disaster/earthquake ??

another interesting part , zoom in around the root of Italy , near where it says ' bilad barfansa al afrang' and you will see a bay/gulf called 'min al bahr al Sami'

what is bilad = bi land and afrang = franks i presume , so a bay named after the Sami near Italy/France ??

Edited April 10, 2013 by NO-ID-EA

[Abramelin]

go further out to the right Abe , and you can see the longtitude, or latitudal markings on the side of the map .........near kadiz you can see the slightly different colour of the map , and that the markings dont line up with the outside marking ... ie 41 degrees on the map dont line up with 41 degrees on the outside ,

it looks like this part of the map has either been repaired. re- calibrated or ! .some event has moved the earths latitude slightly ???.....remember we were told the earth moved very slightly after the japanese disaster/earthquake ??

another interesting part , zoom in around the root of Italy , near where it says ' bilad barfansa al afrang' and you will see a bay/gulf called 'min al bahr al Sami'

what is bilad = bi land and afrang = franks i presume , so a bay named after the Sami near Italy/France ??

The numbers you say don't line up are not related. Along the edge of the map you see degrees latitude.

If you follow number 41 ON the map iself to the left, you'll see 42, then 43, then 44, etc.

I guess that were medieval Arab longitudes.

The language used is of course Arab, so I think you should be careful trying to explain text on the map as though it is some sort of Germanic language.

Bilad al-Sham (Arabic بلاد الشام, the country of Syria), in English usually referred to as Syria,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilad_al-Sham

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Edited April 10, 2013 by Abramelin

[NO-ID-EA]

The numbers you say don't line up are not related. Along the edge of the map you see degrees latitude.

If you follow number 41 ON the map iself to the left, you'll see 42, then 43, then 44, etc.

I guess that were medieval Arab longitudes.

The language used is of course Arab, so I think you should be careful trying to explain text on the map as though it is some sort of Germanic language.

Bilad al-Sham (Arabic بلاد الشام, the country of Syria), in English usually referred to as Syria,

https://en.wikipedia...i/Bilad_al-Sham

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So what are you saying .....afrang is not the franks , Kadis is not Kadiz , Londr is not London, Hastinks is not Hastings, and Dobr is not Dover , ...although they are all remarkably in the right places ...............so why the bay of Sami on the french / Italian border .

and bilad al sham , i would be thinking is ..be(i) land the Shem , or be the land of shem. not Ham or Japhet .

Edited April 10, 2013 by NO-ID-EA

[Abramelin]

So what are you saying .....afrang is not the franks , Kadis is not Kadiz , Londr is not London, Hastinks is not Hastings, and Dobr is not Dover , ...although they are all remarkably in the right places ...............so why the bay of Sami on the french / Italian border .

and bilad al sham , i would be thinking is ..be(i) land the Shem , or be the land of shem. not Ham or Japhet .

I am not saying that at all....

"min al bahr" means something like "from the sea".

And why don't you click on the Wiki link I posted? There you can see the etymology of Bilad Al-Sham.

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Edited April 10, 2013 by Abramelin