how do you explain shared experiences?

[scowl]

What I get from what scowl is saying is that a person has a problematic life if they don't have one person in their life they feel comfortable they feel like they can confide in about anything.

Exactly. I can't imagine anyone more fragile than someone who has absolutely no friends or family to talk to. A person in that position must wonder how they got there.

When I went through my most horrifying sleep hallucinations, fortunately I was in college and every campus (as far as I know) has psychiatric care for students. I was then just one more doctor away from finding what was happening to me. I didn't discuss this with friends or family because they were not professionals who could help me. I told them after I had been through a sleep study and they found out what was going on.

I am very happy that I had gotten a correct medical diagnosis instead of asking strangers what they thought might be happening to me.

[SpiritWriter]

I am very happy that God delivered me from my night terrors.

[Mabon]

You can report an experience by being factual, I saw this, I smelled that, I felt (tangible, temperature, furry etc) I felt (scared, calm etc.) If it is an apparation of a human form you describe it as such, if it is a light floating around the room you describe it as such, if objects are moving on their own, say that. These are not guesses at what happened, these are what was witnessed, these tangible pieces are not the aspect that need interpreting. The more experience, including what is gained in discussion will help you as a person identify your own personal beliefs of what these things are, or have the potential to be.

Right! An individual when reporting/recording an event should include: who, what, when, where, time, drunk/high, sober, age, asleep, awake, mood anything factual. Belief however isn't factual and therefore not always accurate. Belief is subjecting facts to an interpretation by an individual who holds those beliefs.

Example: You like cheese, I don't. You think cheese adds greatness to every food, where I think it doesn't. These are beliefs and neither one is a fact, It's a matter of taste or belief and is only true for the person who holds it. The two facts are cheese exists and we disagree about cheese. Cheese existing isn't open to interpretation, the like or dislike is.

Another example: lights in the air seen with the naked eye. If the person/s are afraid and don't check and saw these in a remote location all the facts will still be subject to fear (as described above) and even though the facts point to headlights reflecting off a lake, they may believe it was spirits because they were too afraid to investigate it fully. What drove that fear is as individual as each person but if you can't get beyond it the most accurate answer is "I don't know" rather than spirits.

I try to explain things logically to people, SP, etc. and just get irritated when something that is so simple as SP gets taken into the realm of demonic possesion by post three. Impressionable kids who want to feel special and don't get that feeling at home are going to jump on that like white on rice and then they're not going to listen to anything sensible at all. That's when the embellishment starts IMO. More and more attention they aren't getting at home but can get from here and we're off on the same old versus.

Cold Ethyl.

I feel your pain Ethyl. The aspect that most people who recognize SP symptoms fail to consider is the fear that SP episodes evoke. The fear is so real to the individual and evokes such strong emotions that it colors all the other evidence. What may seem like a person having a tantrum/reaction (NO! It really wuz a demonz!) may be someone who can't get past the fear of the event to look logically at the event. This may be why the demonic possession/it's demon aspect answer is going to be the one they latch on to and eventually will not be moved from. Especially, when it is prejudiced by a belief system. Their fear is real, I don't doubt that and they had an experience that is outside of their average life but instead of being objective they are too tied to the fear both of the event and of demons. That is if they aren't seeking attention, or have other agendas/issues.

Mabon.

[Frank Merton]

Ghosts are pretty much the only outre experience people have that I think may have some reality to them, and even then I doubt they are the usually spirits of dead people.

Well, I should qualify that: all such experiences except those made up are "real" to the person having them, but generally what is behind them is far more mundane than we guess.

[SpiritWriter]

Exactly. I can't imagine anyone more fragile than someone who has absolutely no friends or family to talk to. A person in that position must wonder how they got there.

When I went through my most horrifying sleep hallucinations, fortunately I was in college and every campus (as far as I know) has psychiatric care for students. I was then just one more doctor away from finding what was happening to me. I didn't discuss this with friends or family because they were not professionals who could help me. I told them after I had been through a sleep study and they found out what was going on.

I am very happy that I had gotten a correct medical diagnosis instead of asking strangers what they thought might be happening to me.

Just because a person cant talk to thier friends and family about supernatural experiences doesn't mean they dont have a support system. I have a very supportive family but if I went to them they probably would have pointed me in the route that you have gone, and I must admit I am glad that I didnt. Im glad that the doctors cleared things up for you, that is great and excellent and now you can rest properly. But does that mean everyone else has to buy into the psychiatry system? I couldn't talk to family because they were athiest and didnt believe in anything spiritual at all.. i am blessed to have had some friends that i could talk to about it and i am sad for people who have to be completely quiet. Im sure they are out there.

Based on my experiences i have concluded there is more to it than mere brain dysfunction. If there IS something more to it, then how much knowledge are we missing out on when we completely reject all possibilities.

A proof for me is "Shared Experience". I dont need to go back and forth and recheck myself about this either. I know some supetnatural things happened with me and other people who were there. I dont need to trick myself into believing it never happened.

Let me repost the OP...

[CrimsonKing]

Ghosts are pretty much the only outre experience people have that I think may have some reality to them, and even then I doubt they are the usually spirits of dead people.

Well, I should qualify that: all such experiences except those made up are "real" to the person having them, but generally what is behind them is far more mundane than we guess.

I agree with this in a way frank,i believe apparitions are more of a crossover of dimensions than what some put the thought behind to make some extraordinary story out of.Im no expert but with all of these stories of ghastly ghost,haunting demons,malevolent spirits in the last 50 years we would have some kind of 100% proof of them existing,out to cause trouble,or trying to destroy others (wouldnt one think that if a supernatural evil wants you dead,you would be gone?) But anyways i let people believe what they want to,doesnt stop my life from going day by day till im gone.So if some choose to believe everything bad or good happens to them by some supernatural force...Fine by me

[SpiritWriter]

We often see that unexplained phenomenon is shared between one or more people who afterward describe the event in the same way.. on these threads I see skeptics challenging the validity of these phenomenon, but I never see the shared experience aspect challenged.

Examples:

1.Five people live in a house that is haunted, two of them can see the same ghost and give it the exact same description. All family members witness things flying around in the house at the same time. Other people who come over also have heard voices in the house and had never heard anything like this before.

2. three people are together in a field and all of them see three large brightly colored orbs in the sky that come close to the ground and suddenly fly off at great speed leaving a light trail

3. Three people witness a creature that looks like a werewolf, he is standing upright and is 8 ft tall, he chases them and they all go to the bathroom on themselves. Each of them describe seeing this creature clearly and each description of sequence of events and physical characteristics of the monster is the same.

4. 2 people enter the astral realm together, first they are at the beach looking at the water but then suddenly both of them are standing on a high ledge on the top of a mountain, they both are amazed and can see the exact same things.

These examples are similar to some that I have read about, heard about or have experienced with others in real life. Let's pretend that lying is not an option.. to the best of your ability how can you explain Shared Experiences?

You dont need to use these examples, you can use your own or stick to general terms. I'm just trying to explain the sort of thing I mean...

...

Do you really think everyone is lying or that their brain disorders are so good they can successfully overlap and coincide? Or maybe there is something more that is possible but we should just ignore it...

[SpiritWriter]

I feel your pain Ethyl. The aspect that most people who recognize SP symptoms fail to consider is the fear that SP episodes evoke. The fear is so real to the individual and evokes such strong emotions that it colors all the other evidence. What may seem like a person having a tantrum/reaction (NO! It really wuz a demonz!) may be someone who can't get past the fear of the event to look logically at the event. This may be why the demonic possession/it's demon aspect answer is going to be the one they latch on to and eventually will not be moved from. Especially, when it is prejudiced by a belief system. Their fear is real, I don't doubt that and they had an experience that is outside of their average life but instead of being objective they are too tied to the fear both of the event and of demons. That is if they aren't seeking attention, or have other agendas/issues.

Mabon.

Or perhaps they arent moved because they know what they experienced. I dont know why a person needs to be be moved from it at all. Like I said before... state the facts.. I saw a demon. We can move ourself from fear.. but that doesn't change what already happened.

[Frank Merton]

There are bound to be things happen all the time that we don't understand. We don't understand how the light waves from the sun reach the earth through the vacuum of space, even though we have mathematical equations that describe it. If things that common we leave unexplained, why can't we leave less common things in the same space?

[SpiritWriter]

There are bound to be things happen all the time that we don't understand. We don't understand how the light waves from the sun reach the earth through the vacuum of space, even though we have mathematical equations that describe it. If things that common we leave unexplained, why can't we leave less common things in the same space?

Well it probably depends.. if you are drawn to a particular subject what should you do? If you are led to disregard it and say, welp Ill never figure that one out.. do you throw up your hands and never discuss it with anyone? Whos to say you dont already have a clue to some of the answers or that you will understand more as life continues. Why should everyone be quiet about what they've experienced just because you choose to? And besides Frank I think you do like talking about it a little bit or you wouldnt be here. I assume its because of the fact that you see ghosts sometimes. On here we talk a lot about fear... we can deal with our fear no matter what we take from or attribute to these experiences. Understanding to the best of our abilities the possibilities and the approaches of others shouldn't increase our fear but rather decrease it and that is part of the reason why I think its good for people to have the chance to talk about these things with others.

Edited April 10, 2013 by SpiritWriter

[SpiritWriter]

I agree with this in a way frank,i believe apparitions are more of a crossover of dimensions than what some put the thought behind to make some extraordinary story out of.Im no expert but with all of these stories of ghastly ghost,haunting demons,malevolent spirits in the last 50 years we would have some kind of 100% proof of them existing,out to cause trouble,or trying to destroy others (wouldnt one think that if a supernatural evil wants you dead,you would be gone?) But anyways i let people believe what they want to,doesnt stop my life from going day by day till im gone.So if some choose to believe everything bad or good happens to them by some supernatural force...Fine by me

God protects us from the devil... he allows him to mess with us a little bit though... my thoughts

And there has been proof, you already admitted this yourself, but state you only believe peoples testimonies that are similar to yours... so now there is no proof except for what you and your friends experienced on that strange and mysterious day?.. give me a break. There is proof my friend, you have some for yourself..

Edited April 10, 2013 by SpiritWriter

[CrimsonKing]

Well it probably depends.. if you are drawn to a particular subject what should you do? If you are led to disregard it and say, welp Ill never figure that one out.. do you throw up your hands and never discuss it with anyone? Whos to say yoy dont alrwady have a clue to some of the answers or that you will understand more as life continues. Why should everyone be quiet about what theyve experienced just because you choose to? And besides Frank I think you do like talking about it a little bit or you wouldnt be here. I assume its because of the fact that you see ghosts sometimes. On here we talk a lot about fear... we can deal with our fear no matter what we take from or attribute to these experiences. Understanding to the best of our abilities the possibilities and the approaches of others shouldnt increase our fear...

To quote Tupac "My only fear of death is reincarnation" im not religious but i do believe energy never dies.About the only fear i have is one day coming back to "this" world.The way we are going,the way human thoughts are headed in the direction of......I want nothing to do with any of it,when im gone im gone.If i do leave behind a ghost look out because if disturbed i will wreak enough havoc that someone will get a good video tape of it to have proof haha

[SpiritWriter]

To quote Tupac "My only fear of death is reincarnation" im not religious but i do believe energy never dies.About the only fear i have is one day coming back to "this" world.The way we are going,the way human thoughts are headed in the direction of......I want nothing to do with any of it,when im gone im gone.If i do leave behind a ghost look out because if disturbed i will wreak enough havoc that someone will get a good video tape of it to have proof haha

I also believe our energy doesn't die and I believe that we are a part of all creation.. we may not return here.. but perhaps we do.. I dont think we are in controll of that aspect. We have been given little control (depending on your percpective, taking into account the ripple effect) and are in charge of governing the direction of ourselves and whomever we may have charge over/ influence on... I think that these things matter and make a difference both in this realm and for whatever is next. I am talking in big picture terms as well as "here and now" basics...

Edit: yes it is sad about the direction but we do have some say in that...

My thoughts

Oh and you know tupac isnt really dead...

Edited April 10, 2013 by SpiritWriter

[CrimsonKing]

I also believe our energy doesn't die and I believe that we are a part of all creation.. we may not return here.. but perhaps we do.. I dont think we are in controll of that aspect. We have been given little control (depending on your percpective, taking into account the ripple effect) and are in charge of governing the direction of ourselves and whomever we may have charge over/ influence on... I think that these things matter and make a difference both in this realm and for whatever is next. I am talking in big picture terms as well as "here and now" basics...

Edit: yes it is sad about the direction but we do have some say in that...

My thoughts

So if i wind up being brought back here,i can blame it on creationist? JK just making fun of a recent post i responded to the whole "lets blame everything on someone else crowd' just figured i might go ahead and be the first to try it for the next realm haha.Honestly i myself do not see us as having any control of what is next,energy is free though can be harnessed,yet still once used returns to free energy.

Edited April 10, 2013 by CrimsonKing

[Frank Merton]

Oh we all enjoy talking about things and speculating. It's just that in the end we have to realize that generally we are just blowing air. We really don't even understand what it means to "understand." It's something that happens in the mind is about all we can say.

[The Silver Thong]

holding hands

[CrimsonKing]

Oh we all enjoy talking about things and speculating. It's just that in the end we have to realize that generally we are just blowing air. We really don't even understand what it means to "understand." It's something that happens in the mind is about all we can say.

So to say...Yes you are correct,but i am stubborn and i know this as fact I want answers if anyone can prove them as fact haha

[CrimsonKing]

Oh and you know tupac isnt really dead...

Ok now this post gets moved to the conspiracy section haha

[CrimsonKing]

holding hands

Get your hands off me,you damn dirty ape

[Mabon]

Or perhaps they arent moved because they know what they experienced. I dont know why a person needs to be be moved from it at all. Like I said before... state the facts.. I saw a demon. We can move ourself from fear.. but that doesn't change what already happened.

What event transpired can't be changed but perceptions can change.

An individual can't state and be factual that they saw a demon, because not everyone shares the love of cheese. In truth what does that statement even mean, "I saw a demon"? That isn't a description it's a conclusion.

In my opinion, if someone believes they are haunted and are having SP the fear and the stigma that comes from some rigid belief systems will assure that they remain in agony for years instead of looking into several options. It's what scowl wrote about.

A person has an event that impacts their life and they become convinced that the conclusion they've reached (through their belief and talking with others who've shared a similar experience/belief) is the answer. Now if it is a one time episode (saw a ghost of their dead cat) it may not be a problem but if it is a series of episodes/events they may begin to obsess and fixate on that because they've become convinced and will not be moved to even consider alternative answers/explanations. This goes back to and is the fear of the unknown.This fixation will also give them a distraction from understanding the root of the stress or what started the SP cycles in the first place because a lot of people don't want to admit that they are having other issues. The person may have been experiencing one or more of the following; prolonged stress, lack of quality sleep or interrupted sleep, waking hallucinations, irritability and mood swings. So far this does sound demonic in nature. If they become convinced that's what it is by talking with others who have shared a similar experience how does belief really help? Does it reduce the stress, help them get back on a healthy sleep cycle, address mood swings etc and they BELIEVED with all their might that (prayer, burning sage, salt holy water, exorcism, fill in the blank) would work and their deity would deliver them. So they continue on in an unhealthy state rather than admit they didn't know and look at other possibilities. This doesn't have to shake the foundational belief system of the person. You can still believe in X and have SP. It's just that what they thought/believed/identified it as originally was.... dare I say it..... wrong. It's not about the whole belief system but the episode/event was misidentified.

Mabon.

[SpiritWriter]

Oh we all enjoy talking about things and speculating. It's just that in the end we have to realize that generally we are just blowing air. We really don't even understand what it means to "understand." It's something that happens in the mind is about all we can say.

I agree but what else can we do but try and in fact we do have "some" understanding, for whatever that piece is worth and it may turn out to be valuable...

[SpiritWriter]

What event transpired can't be changed but perceptions can change.

An individual can't state and be factual that they saw a demon, because not everyone shares the love of cheese. In truth what does that statement even mean, "I saw a demon"? That isn't a description it's a conclusion.

In my opinion, if someone believes they are haunted and are having SP the fear and the stigma that comes from some rigid belief systems will assure that they remain in agony for years instead of looking into several options. It's what scowl wrote about.

A person has an event that impacts their life and they become convinced that the conclusion they've reached (through their belief and talking with others who've shared a similar experience/belief) is the answer. Now if it is a one time episode (saw a ghost of their dead cat) it may not be a problem but if it is a series of episodes/events they may begin to obsess and fixate on that because they've become convinced and will not be moved to even consider alternative answers/explanations. This goes back to and is the fear of the unknown.This fixation will also give them a distraction from understanding the root of the stress or what started the SP cycles in the first place because a lot of people don't want to admit that they are having other issues. The person may have been experiencing one or more of the following; prolonged stress, lack of quality sleep or interrupted sleep, waking hallucinations, irritability and mood swings. So far this does sound demonic in nature. If they become convinced that's what it is by talking with others who have shared a similar experience how does belief really help? Does it reduce the stress, help them get back on a healthy sleep cycle, address mood swings etc and they BELIEVED with all their might that (prayer, burning sage, salt holy water, exorcism, fill in the blank) would work and their deity would deliver them. So they continue on in an unhealthy state rather than admit they didn't know and look at other possibilities. This doesn't have to shake the foundational belief system of the person. You can still believe in X and have SP. It's just that what they thought/believed/identified it as originally was.... dare I say it..... wrong. It's not about the whole belief system but the episode/event was misidentified.

Mabon.

And now you are projecting your belief system. My OP is shared experiences.... what is your take on that? If you already answered that I may have missed it.. my diety did save me from my issues and I dont see that as bad or as a problem I need to rearrange my head around. Visible entities are not cheese...

Edited April 10, 2013 by SpiritWriter

[Mabon]

Yes I have a belief system. From time to time I've been known to express it. What I try to do is not beat someone to death with it or get my knickers in a twist when others don't share my opinion.

I did discuss shared experiences, have been discussing shared experiences and you have been responding to it.

Glad that you found relief through your belief system. Glad that it worked for you.

I'm not sure how this became about your situation or experiences. I was speaking about hypothetical situations or other peoples experiences. I'm not trying to dissuade you from your belief or your conclusions about your experience. I don't even know what your experience are, nor did I think it was germane to the OP.

No but visible entities may be hallucinations which was the situation I described in my last post. That a conclusion based on fear and a rigid belief can be wrong but does not have to cast doubt on an individuals belief in a higher power.

Geese lighten up a little... I know visible entities aren't cheese but cheese is a visible entity.

Mabon.

[SpiritWriter]

Yes I have a belief system. From time to time I've been known to express it. What I try to do is not beat someone to death with it or get my knickers in a twist when others don't share my opinion.

I did discuss shared experiences, have been discussing shared experiences and you have been responding to it.

Glad that you found relief through your belief system. Glad that it worked for you.

I'm not sure how this became about your situation or experiences. I was speaking about hypothetical situations or other peoples experiences. I'm not trying to dissuade you from your belief or your conclusions about your experience. I don't even know what your experience are, nor did I think it was germane to the OP.

No but visible entities may be hallucinations which was the situation I described in my last post. That a conclusion based on fear and a rigid belief can be wrong but does not have to cast doubt on an individuals belief in a higher power.

Geese lighten up a little... I know visible entities aren't cheese but cheese is a visible entity.

Mabon.

Not germane to the thread but germane to how I respond. I am lightened up enough... I just want to make my points too. Ty

[scowl]

Ghosts are pretty much the only outre experience people have that I think may have some reality to them, and even then I doubt they are the usually spirits of dead people.

One quality of most ghost reports is that they're often just shapeless blobs of light. Lots of things can cause them and be misinterpreted consistently by multiple people, especially when they're in some kind of spooky environment.

Some believe that most ghost reports are of ghosts which are identical to living people. I don't think this is true because all non-hoaxed ghost photos and videos show ghosts as indistinct shapes, often not even in human proportions. Apparently if they're below the horizon they're ghosts and if they're above the horizon they're UFOs.