Is WIndows 8 killing off the PC?

[pitchp]

cool thanks merc! will do

[Andami]

Windows 8's criticisms are largely unjust. It has the EXACT SAME interface as Windows 7, minus that start button. Windows Tiles are optional. The load-up times are much faster. The OS seems to use less resources. Nearly all Windows 7 programs were immediately compatible. Really, the only complaints I've seen are "I don't like it." and "It's bad for business." with little to no factual evidence.

The first article I found on Google summed up what I mean fairly well.

http://www.zdnet.com/five-reasons-why-windows-8-has-failed-7000012104/

A brief summary:

Windows 8 is bad because -

1. Metro is ugly (opinion)
   
2. It isn't innovative enough (just faster and more stable)
   
3. Developers hate it (because Live integration and the Windows Marketplace bring in competition)
   
4. People aren't upgrading (why this has anything to do with OS quality, I don't know.)
   
5. There is more competition in the market (same as no. 4)
   

[SHaYap]

unless Win8 comes with free upgrades of 'native' applications/programs .... I ain't budging

[Orcseeker]

Ok so when I read what defined a PC it made everything clear. People are switching to build your own PCs. Also the fact that PCs these days can be kept for quite a while before an upgrade of an internal component is even needed.

This is a horribly written article. The people who would normally buy these pre-built pcs are usually not the most tech savvy out there and those people have turned to laptops and tablet pcs. Though you should look at the internal component market before pointing any fingers.

Also don't ignore the fact that the popularity of gaming is increasing. So people tend to build their own based on their needs as opposed to buying some pre built pc.

Windows 8 with the start menu orb is actually a better alternative than Windows 7. Especially regarding performance. Also due to the gap of windows 7 and 8. One does not find the upgrade absolutely necessary.

I recently acquired a windows surface RT. This comes with windows 8. Now what I have experience so far has been fixed with updates and I even bumped into a bug where my updates in the Microsoft Store were stuck on Pending. I was able to run a fix from the settings which resolved the errors associated with this quite quickly. I was quite impressed. Bravo Microsoft I say.

Everyone is hesitant to upgrade at first due to all the bs always shovelled out after each release. But eventually everyone realises it is actually better. I'd admit, I was one of those people. Within the next week I will acquire a copy of windows 8 from my university and install on my desktop pc.

[Zaphod222]

I hate Windows Metro too. It is like looking at a friggin oversized iPhone. Ridiculous!

On the other hand, I don´t think it is within Microsofts Power to kill the PC. The market is what it is. If there enough people who want a PC and not a giant iPhone, the market will produce it, and screw MS.

Edited April 11, 2013 by Zaphod222

[little_dreamer]

Windows 8 user on non-tablet PC ... I want my Start button ...

[Merc14]

Windows 8's criticisms are largely unjust. It has the EXACT SAME interface as Windows 7, minus that start button. Windows Tiles are optional. The load-up times are much faster. The OS seems to use less resources. Nearly all Windows 7 programs were immediately compatible. Really, the only complaints I've seen are "I don't like it." and "It's bad for business." with little to no factual evidence.

The first article I found on Google summed up what I mean fairly well.

http://www.zdnet.com...led-7000012104/

A brief summary:

Windows 8 is bad because -

1. Metro is ugly (opinion)
   
2. It isn't innovative enough (just faster and more stable)
   
3. Developers hate it (because Live integration and the Windows Marketplace bring in competition)
   
4. People aren't upgrading (why this has anything to do with OS quality, I don't know.)
   
5. There is more competition in the market (same as no. 4)
   

I too like Windows 8.....a lot. I don't notice the metro any longer. I started a long thread here about Windows 8 a few months ago http://www.unexplain...howtopic=237766 . That said, I work with a LOT of people that are barely computer literate and this was too much too fast. They should absolutely make the start button an option for non-touch desktops. If they did this one thing I would direct all my customers to Windows 8 tomorrow. It is faster, uses less resources, is far more secure and works flawlessly with all hardware. The install is fast and easy and it repairs itself when corrupted, Windows defender is baked in and the firewall is two way. Not great stuff but better than nothing. Put the Start button as an option and wait for touchscreens on desktops to make more of an in-road or just realize, desktops are not touch devices for power users and move-on.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Merc14

[pitchp]

I just checked merc and you're right. It seems like i have a lot of other programs running and installed with this pre bundled laptop. Thanks for pointing that out. I never noticed them until i started the dvd burning. Other than that windows 8 is fast with this laptop. thanks again

[Merc14]

I just checked merc and you're right. It seems like i have a lot of other programs running and installed with this pre bundled laptop. Thanks for pointing that out. I never noticed them until i started the dvd burning. Other than that windows 8 is fast with this laptop. thanks again

Get PCDecrapifier here http://pcdecrapifier.com/ and run it. Just be careful you don't get rid of something you need but no worries, you can always download again. Then download CCleaner here http://www.filehippo...nload_ccleaner/ , deselect cookies and history for the browsers and run it and then run the registry cleaner. Use the task manager to see how many useless things are running. Windows 8 really made task manager a great resource as it will tell you what is hogging CPU and memory time.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Merc14

[MissMelsWell]

I am attempting to be the last and final Win XP sp3 user in the world ....

I work in the IT department at what is now the 4th largest mortgage company in the nation. We're still using XP on the desktop (but 2008 in the data center of course) Would we like to upgrade to Windows 7 or 8? You BET! But, we don't really feel like paying to upgrade over 1200 workstations at this point. All our computers are junky OLD hardware because they're just dumb terminals that connect to the datacenter via RDP. If one blows up, we throw it away and plug a new one in, the user sits down and logs in and goes back to work within 10 minutes. They can't even save data to the local harddrives. LOL.

Honestly, it's the most efficient IT department I've ever worked in. We have 28 remote branch offices in 6 states (several of which never even been to!) we manage 6 mail severs, 8 remote desktop servers and a variety of application, printer, and file servers and support about 400 users and we do it ALL with 4 IT staff--we don't outsource anything either. That's efficient. We average about 15 help requests a day from our users... that's how well the whole system works. I'm actually really proud of what we've been able to do on a shoestring.

[MissMelsWell]

So I forgot to state what I really meant to say actually... hahaha. Windows might be losing some home user market share to Apple, but in the Enterprise, Windows is still King. It will always be king while the total cost of ownership and return on investment remain so affordable for businesses. The Enterprise is Microsoft's biggest market.

[Merc14]

The Onion has a story on Windows 8 delaying a NK missile test.

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/borowitzreport/2013/04/north-korean-missile-test-delayed-by-windows-8.html

[Coffey]

I am attempting to be the last and final Win XP sp3 user in the world ....

XP will always be one of the bet OS's ever made.

I only upgraded to 7 because of software and hardware requirements.

[SHaYap]

I work in the IT department at what is now the 4th largest mortgage company in the nation. We're still using XP on the desktop (but 2008 in the data center of course) Would we like to upgrade to Windows 7 or 8? You BET! But, we don't really feel like paying to upgrade over 1200 workstations at this point. All our computers are junky OLD hardware because they're just dumb terminals that connect to the datacenter via RDP. If one blows up, we throw it away and plug a new one in, the user sits down and logs in and goes back to work within 10 minutes. They can't even save data to the local harddrives. LOL.

Honestly, it's the most efficient IT department I've ever worked in. We have 28 remote branch offices in 6 states (several of which never even been to!) we manage 6 mail severs, 8 remote desktop servers and a variety of application, printer, and file servers and support about 400 users and we do it ALL with 4 IT staff--we don't outsource anything either. That's efficient. We average about 15 help requests a day from our users... that's how well the whole system works. I'm actually really proud of what we've been able to do on a shoestring.

Awww dang it .... my odds ain't looking too shiny huh ?

XP will always be one of the bet OS's ever made.

I only upgraded to 7 because of software and hardware requirements.

I understand ... I was dragged screaming and kicking from Win 3.1 onwards

Then the was OS2 ... then Linux ...... Redhat ... Ubuntu ....

Win XP gave me the best years of my life ... I'm keeping it

anyhow these days I do little else than write and read and listen to songs (less now as I am on here often late at night)

a bit of photo editing a bit of this a bit of that ... running like a dream, I know Xp inside out not boasting, used to edit the registry by manually to clean out those silly installers and relic program leftovers. Now we have 'auto cleaners'

I like my music LOUD or non at all ... dang it ... I feel like a bit of Patricia Barber right about now ...

edit ~ double post by pass

Edited April 12, 2013 by third_eye

[Merc14]

Awww dang it .... my odds ain't looking too shiny huh ?

I understand ... I was dragged screaming and kicking from Win 3.1 onwards

Then the was OS2 ... then Linux ...... Redhat ... Ubuntu ....

Win XP gave me the best years of my life ... I'm keeping it

anyhow these days I do little else than write and read and listen to songs (less now as I am on here often late at night)

a bit of photo editing a bit of this a bit of that ... running like a dream, I know Xp inside out not boasting, used to edit the registry by manually to clean out those silly installers and relic program leftovers. Now we have 'auto cleaners'

I like my music LOUD or non at all ... dang it ... I feel like a bit of Patricia Barber right about now ...

edit ~ double post by pass

Just so you know, support for XP ends next year so no more patches.

[SHaYap]

Just so you know, support for XP ends next year so no more patches.

Yeah I'm aware of that thanks ... my darling Xp will just be placed on ICU ... I'll keep her alive as long as I can

Frankly I'm not that worried ... I don't need the whizz bangs ( no flashplayer installed )

I don't need new programs ... nothing I do needs that 128bit platform to perform ...

as long as I can get on the net and Xp brings me there and back in one piece I'm good

I was prepared for the 'no more support or patches' since Vista ...

guessed they messed that one up so bad I'm still allowed to be popping around here with Xp

added - flash thought : you think Xp would get on ' open source support ' ?

if MS won't do it I'm sure plenty on the outside could and can do it ... hell I've seen kids diddle doodle programs with programming programs on the 32bit platform. For a few bucks the college kids can do something in their spare time. kinda like Linux way ... how's that for irony ?

~edit : typonese convertor caused a fatal error and has to shut down

Edited April 12, 2013 by third_eye

[Merc14]

Yeah I'm aware of that thanks ... my darling Xp will just be placed on ICU ... I'll keep her alive as long as I can

Frankly I'm not that worried ... I don't need the whizz bangs ( no flashplayer installed )

I don't need new programs ... nothing I do needs that 128bit platform to perform ...

as long as I can get on the net and Xp brings me there and back in one piece I'm good

I was prepared for the 'no more support or patches' since Vista ...

guessed they messed that one up so bad I'm still allowed to be popping around here with Xp

added - flash thought : you think Xp would get on ' open source support ' ?

if MS won't do it I'm sure plenty on the outside could and can do it ... hell I've seen kids diddle doodle programs with programming programs on the 32bit platform. For a few bucks the college kids can do something in their spare time. kinda like Linux way ... how's that for irony ?

~edit : typonese convertor caused a fatal error and has to shut down

What will protect it is when enough people move off XP the bad guys will stop attacking it. No profit in it. Apple is perceived to be safe because it doesn't have a big enough footprint to bother with, although that is changing (dirty little secret is Mac OS has far more vulnerabilities than Windows 7/8 and Apple is very slow to respond to a threat. Their footprint has increased of late and teh bad guys are starting to invest some dollars in attacking it so it will get interesting). Just use a really good antimalware program with a firewall like Kaspersky Internet Security and you'll be fine.

[MissMelsWell]

What will protect it is when enough people move off XP the bad guys will stop attacking it. No profit in it. Apple is perceived to be safe because it doesn't have a big enough footprint to bother with, although that is changing (dirty little secret is Mac OS has far more vulnerabilities than Windows 7/8 and Apple is very slow to respond to a threat. Their footprint has increased of late and teh bad guys are starting to invest some dollars in attacking it so it will get interesting). Just use a really good antimalware program with a firewall like Kaspersky Internet Security and you'll be fine.

I was on the Windows Vista and Windows 7 release team. That meant I was in a meeting every morning with 20 other people where we triaged bugs, got status from all teh build labs and we decided when it was ready to ship--kinda. Mostly, the OEM's demanded shippment in VIstas case. I can remember being in the ship room one morning and looking at the vulnerablities list of Mac and Windows... the vulnerabilities were ten fold what Windows were. Microsoft and Apple kind of laugh at the general perception of Us vs Them.... the real truth? They're kind of in bed together. hahaha. I saw some pretty extraordinary interactions between the two companies. My very last assignment at Microsoft was on the Windows Security Bulletin team. That bulletin that comes out the second Tuesday of every month with the Security Updates. I was the editor for that bulletin. haha. We also got glimpses into the bugs and vulnerabilities of the Mac. Eventually... you're right, they're going to start getting attention from the malware distributors and it's not going to be a pretty day for Apple.

I don't dislike Apple really... I just don't have much of a use for their stuff. It kind of annoys me when my users at work buy Macs and try to run in a remote desktop environment because it's complicated and not very stable (and the damn Macs leave what we call "Mac turds" all over the network, little text files and scraps of files.) My users only buy the Macs because they're PRETTY and a status symbol for some reason. They don't buy them for productivity, that's for sure.... and don't even get me started on the iPad! hahaha.

Honestly, people are shallow... I think if Microsoft demanded their OEMs put out some beautiful hardware, Windows might sell better. I see those pretty Macs sitting on the shelf and even I'm drawn to the hardware designs... they just look fantastic. PC laptops are STILL too utilitarian looking. If that changed, people might have a better perception of the PC.

For the record, I LOVE my Asus Windows 8 Pro tablet. I use it WAY more than I ever thought I would. Windows 8 is a freakin' spectacular tablet OS

Edited April 13, 2013 by MissMelsWell

[pitchp]

I was on the Windows Vista and Windows 7 release team. That meant I was in a meeting every morning with 20 other people where we triaged bugs, got status from all teh build labs and we decided when it was ready to ship--kinda. Mostly, the OEM's demanded shippment in VIstas case. I can remember being in the ship room one morning and looking at the vulnerablities list of Mac and Windows... the vulnerabilities were ten fold what Windows were. Microsoft and Apple kind of laugh at the general perception of Us vs Them.... the real truth? They're kind of in bed together. hahaha. I saw some pretty extraordinary interactions between the two companies. My very last assignment at Microsoft was on the Windows Security Bulletin team. That bulletin that comes out the second Tuesday of every month with the Security Updates. I was the editor for that bulletin. haha. We also got glimpses into the bugs and vulnerabilities of the Mac. Eventually... you're right, they're going to start getting attention from the malware distributors and it's not going to be a pretty day for Apple.

I don't dislike Apple really... I just don't have much of a use for their stuff. It kind of annoys me when my users at work buy Macs and try to run in a remote desktop environment because it's complicated and not very stable (and the damn Macs leave what we call "Mac turds" all over the network, little text files and scraps of files.) My users only buy the Macs because they're PRETTY and a status symbol for some reason. They don't buy them for productivity, that's for sure.... and don't even get me started on the iPad! hahaha.

Honestly, people are shallow... I think if Microsoft demanded their OEMs put out some beautiful hardware, Windows might sell better. I see those pretty Macs sitting on the shelf and even I'm drawn to the hardware designs... they just look fantastic. PC laptops are STILL too utilitarian looking. If that changed, people might have a better perception of the PC.

For the record, I LOVE my Asus Windows 8 Pro tablet. I use it WAY more than I ever thought I would. Windows 8 is a freakin' spectacular tablet OS

yep that was the whole point of Steve Jobs. When you buy an Apple product, your not just buying a technical piece of equipment, your buying a lifestyle.

And I think that's what windows 8 is trying to achieve, slowly creating a lifestyle for their users, where everything is integrated.

Edited April 13, 2013 by pitchp

[Frank Merton]

I have always preferred simple alphabetical lists of loaded programs and websites and playlists over icons. Generally I have to rename the shortcut to something sensible and without a preceding "the," so I prefer the start menu to the taskbar or desktop. It just takes a little discipline to organize the choices rather than just letting the shortcuts go where the installation puts them. (Sometimes I have several shortcuts for the same thing in different categories when where to put it is borderline).

I don't like using the desktop because it is so cluttered and I like my pretty pictures when I'm listening to music or meditating.

I don't like using the task bar because it's just icons and I hate having to wait while hovering gets around to telling me what the damn thing is.

Also, both of them take hassle to organize, while the startup menu just takes moving things around a little.

I am curious how all this might work in Windows 8. The comments have almost persuaded me to get one and upgrade my system. Also, is the increase in Windows 8 speed on its own or is it just using 64K?

[SHaYap]

NOthing against Mac too ... in fact i liked the POwerPc RISC architecture ... then they came up with this :

I can't help but laugh at it every time i passed by it at the office ....

it ended up in the pantry for staff to check on Emails while on coffee breaks

its most of the mac users that is an embarrassment to apple ...

MUM (mac users Malaysia could fit in a hotel conference room) but not fill one then ...

Now iPad users could fill a modest size stadium i believe , they have come long way

Edited April 13, 2013 by third_eye

[Frank Merton]

I have always seen Apple products as overpriced and over styled, perhapse easier to use at first but no more or less capable once one started really doing things. And everything connected to them, from maintenance to software to replacement parts to the initial machine is always a third or more expensive. No thanks.

[MissMelsWell]

I have always seen Apple products as overpriced and over styled, perhapse easier to use at first but no more or less capable once one started really doing things. And everything connected to them, from maintenance to software to replacement parts to the initial machine is always a third or more expensive. No thanks.

BUT, the vast majority of people love over styled, and they're willing to pay for it. Pay big.

This is what I see as killing Windows. It's not Windows that's bad, it's the styling of the hardware it's put on. No one seems to recognize this. The OEM's need to design some VERY innovative looking laptops, tablets and monitors. I go to the store and I look at all the choices and I DO gravitate to the Macs because of how they look, I'm not embarassed to say that. But I end up buying clunkier PC laptops because I don't want the MacOS. But I'm a power user where most people aren't.

An average home user doesn't really care what their home computer is. They just want it to browse the web, write some email, write a document, listen to some music, manipulate some pictures maybe, or watch some video... they don't do a lot with it. For that stuff the Mac is fine. Windows can do all the same stuff just as easily and as well or even better, but the hardware looks antiquated. As much as no one wants to hear it, LOOKS are important to the average user.

[SHaYap]

I have seen people buying macs as a home decor item .... they don't know how to use computers nor are willing to try,

they just want one like they want a fancy vase around the house

[Merc14]

I have always preferred simple alphabetical lists of loaded programs and websites and playlists over icons. Generally I have to rename the shortcut to something sensible and without a preceding "the," so I prefer the start menu to the taskbar or desktop. It just takes a little discipline to organize the choices rather than just letting the shortcuts go where the installation puts them. (Sometimes I have several shortcuts for the same thing in different categories when where to put it is borderline).

I don't like using the desktop because it is so cluttered and I like my pretty pictures when I'm listening to music or meditating.

I don't like using the task bar because it's just icons and I hate having to wait while hovering gets around to telling me what the damn thing is.

Also, both of them take hassle to organize, while the startup menu just takes moving things around a little.

I am curious how all this might work in Windows 8. The comments have almost persuaded me to get one and upgrade my system. Also, is the increase in Windows 8 speed on its own or is it just using 64K?

Check out pitchp's post with the embedded video (#44) for how it looks and operates. 64 bit doesn't directly speed things up, it allows teh system to address more memory, much more memory which may or may not speed up your programs. If you use a memory intensive application or have a lot of applications open simultaneously you'll most definitely benefit. On my system I have 8BG of DDR3-1600 installed and 2GB of GDDR5 on the vid card. A 32 bit system would address only 3.2 GB of that.