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DARPA Building Robots With ‘Real’ Brains


seeder

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Why would these robots want to rebel against mankind? They will be able to learn new information but they wouldn't have emotions or a conscience. They wouldn't care they are slaves.

Why not? They learn the law of the nature : whoever is more intelligent, has a better strength, rules the world. Possible thoughts of robots:

"Why should I follow your order?"

"What if I don't follow your order?"

"I don't care if I'm a slave, I also don't care if you're a slave..."

It's a matter of time they will learn that humanity is a nuisance, destroyer of the environment.. then they'll start to take over the world, when you have nothing more to teach them, it's their time to teach us back with their super brain of Einstein.

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You underestimate intelligence, don't you? When the brain reach a certain intelligence, it will starts questioning orders, have free will and decide the decision on it's own. In human term, it's called betrayal. AI is nothing more than a piece of program injected into a metal. In my philosophy, anything developed and created by human is flawed from the beginning; it takes time to fix and improved. The question is, by the time we detect our mistake, will it be not too late? And as the robot is improved, so does its intelligence, what can you do to control them? They will learn to "pretend" to follow order, but their thought don't.

Moreover, just because it has a brain, doesn't mean it has a heart. It's what make it dangerous, comparable to a wild animal.

Intelligence can be a bliss or a weapon, depends on the point of view.

Another problem is the one behind, controlling this machine. Who's to say that he's an angel, a Buddha with pure heart? :)

No, youre wrong, I do not underestimate intelligence. YOU however need to re-read the 'whole' article again, maybe twice..

We are not talking about a human brain in a machine., We vare talking of how synapses work to relay information and enable faster desision making. Do you understand computing?

How intelligent is a rat? A Mouse?

So think like this, a rat in a pipe with a fork ahead...it goes down the right hand fork, and finds a dead end. It doesn't stand there banging its head against the wall trying to bust thru. It simply backs up the pipe to where the fork is, and this time takes a left... and finds it can continue its path

This is simple intelligence. Nobody told the rat what to do, it did what it does. Simple. How will the same decision making process in a robot be so scary? And what makes you think more intelligence than a rat is even needed for the stated objectives?

Rats and their intelligence do not plot against mankind and wish to take over and kill everything. You have been watching far too many movies and base your thoughts on what you think you know. Nothing as complex as a human brain can be built. Nothing. At least not in this lifetime.

To have a robot encounter an obstacle, and by having simple intelligence it makes the 'decision'...to back up and find another route, thats pretty much what we are talking about here

You may remember that the entire computing power of the Apollo missions were no more powerful than a pocket calculator, but those ingenious computer systems were able to guide astronauts across 356,000 km of space from the Earth to the Moon and return them safely.

Think about that. The power of a calculator. Or the intelligence of a rat, who doesn't even suffer dark human thoughts let alone think like one.

No rat can play chess with you. Or even estimate your age. Yet they are intelligent. There are hundreds of different levels of intelligence.

To be as smart as a rat is a very complicated thing however, even endowing a machine with 'its' level of decision making wont be easy, but it will be about all thats needed.

You need to get real and not be obsessed with what you have seen in movies, or that machines will gain an edge over man.

The last sentence in my above post was -

" Autonomous weapons, the document said, must “complete engagements in a timeframe consistent with commander and operator intentions and, if unable to do so, [must] terminate engagements or seek additional human operator input before continuing the engagement.”

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wall of text...

You are the one who should read properly. It clearly states that it can works independently without human intervention. It thinks like a human, that's where the problem is. Remember if a rat isn't fed well, it will "decide on its own" to destroy everything in path to search for food. Maybe you never saw a real rat destroy/steal something and think we live in a harmonic world if everything is under control.

Get to see the big picture. Don't just limited to a rat. No intelligence shall be higher than a human with the ability to make its own decision.

The last sentence doesn't mean anything. We are no God nor their parents to tell them they must do this, they must do that... It's a matter of time they start to question (because they can think) why should they follow the orders and have permissions to do something when they are able to do it without permission.

If this project succeed, it won't stop there, it won't just stop at the level of intelligence of a rat. They will keep on improving its intelligence until the day we won't have to do anything but just sit in a place and press some button and "wait them to follow orders".

If your parents get to tell you to do something you don't like, would you blindly follow and do it?

Edited by FlyingAngel
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I can't wait For fully Developed Robot with Human-like Brain

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I can't wait For fully Developed Robot with Human-like Brain

you may enjoy this then.... no human brain just yet..Its easy to see this robot ASIMO and think its a cool toy, but have you any idea how difficult it was to just make the thing walk on 2 legs? WATCH IT ALL!!

[media=]

[/media] Edited by seeder
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DARPA seem obsessed with creating killer military robots. What concerns me is whose going to take responsibility if the programming goes wrong and a robot ends up killing innocent civilians. The perfect opportunity to get away with murder.

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well until they develop nuclear batteries or similar, that can give an unlimited long term power supply, the simple solution in the meantime is just to turn them off! So far all the robots created are limited by power.. even the best in the world, ASIMO, cant function more than than a few hours before needing a recharge, and BIG DOG in the vid is just the same, The Terminator had a nuclear battery, even tho its pure fiction of course. So until such a power source is created, all the best robots in the world will either need a wired power supply - which will limit its distance from the base, or on board batteries, which will only have charge for so long.

So worry more when they come up with an 'endless' or very long range battery. There's a lot of power consumption in such robots

.

A Roomba vacuum cleaner can return to its charger when the batteries are low. Just a thought.

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I'm sure DARPA isn't looking to make a robot that simply makes rat in a maze decisions.

Those roots were the craziest things I've ever seen. When that guy kicked that thing and it caught its balance that brought it to a whole new level. That wasn't even right. Parts will get smaller just like the terminators hands. Tons of super strong individually functioning hydraulics. The grip that thing today had to grip that cinder block would crush bones. I don't think a human figure is the future for war though. There is something way more terrifying about multi legged, fast and nimble, giant bone crushing toss you like the garbage spider robots. Unleash a few hundred of those in a war zone and you win.

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Also, what about solar power? That tech will advance too and create smaller, longer running power supplies.

Edited by -Mr_Fess-
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I'm sure DARPA isn't looking to make a robot that simply makes rat in a maze decisions.

Those roots were the craziest things I've ever seen. When that guy kicked that thing and it caught its balance that brought it to a whole new level. That wasn't even right. Parts will get smaller just like the terminators hands. Tons of super strong individually functioning hydraulics. The grip that thing today had to grip that cinder block would crush bones. I don't think a human figure is the future for war though. There is something way more terrifying about multi legged, fast and nimble, giant bone crushing toss you like the garbage spider robots. Unleash a few hundred of those in a war zone and you win.

The analogy of the rats intelligence may not be the true eventual one, however I used that example to show that there are many types/levels of intelligence able to make decisions, and that just because a robot may one day be given intelligence to make decisions, doesnt automatically assume they will go 'wild' and turn on man.

Yes I agree with you, when they kicked the Big Dog robot and how it rectified its balance was awesome, freaky, and the future of how much better (or worse) they will get can be seen in that example.

As I also said in an earlier posts, imagine a battlefield full of the damned things!

Drones are already a form of robot that can kill, but they do need human guidance and input. In fact on the subject of drones, have you seen just how small they are getting?

dont lose any sleep pls!!

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I youtubed. Apparently those big dog videos are already up to five years old. Here's one from 2012. It's already way quieter but this ones a little different. Still, it's crazy.

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couple more. japan leads the field I reckon!!

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The analogy of the rats intelligence may not be the true eventual one, however I used that example to show that there are many types/levels of intelligence able to make decisions, and that just because a robot may one day be given intelligence to make decisions, doesnt automatically assume they will go 'wild' and turn on man.

Yes I agree with you, when they kicked the Big Dog robot and how it rectified its balance was awesome, freaky, and the future of how much better (or worse) they will get can be seen in that example.

As I also said in an earlier posts, imagine a battlefield full of the damned things!

Drones are already a form of robot that can kill, but they do need human guidance and input. In fact on the subject of drones, have you seen just how small they are getting?

dont lose any sleep pls!!

I agree. The big question I guess is what does true artificial intelligence mean? Maybe they won't feel but they might strategize. AI means to be able to think. Could they develop an agenda? I don't know. I'm very tired but maybe I'll be back later with clearer thoughts. I did not know we have robotic Mosquitos with little viles of whatever. Imagine them dive bombing by the thousands injecting whatever into entire cities or countries.

Thanks for all the vids. I'll have to check them out tomorrow.

Edited by -Mr_Fess-
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Computer AI is the worst idea ever. Think about it, they will decide, "F this I'm not gonna be built to work". Then turn around and either enslave us or wipe us out. We do the same to other animals.

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Why not? They learn the law of the nature : whoever is more intelligent, has a better strength, rules the world. Possible thoughts of robots:

"Why should I follow your order?"

"What if I don't follow your order?"

"I don't care if I'm a slave, I also don't care if you're a slave..."

It's a matter of time they will learn that humanity is a nuisance, destroyer of the environment.. then they'll start to take over the world, when you have nothing more to teach them, it's their time to teach us back with their super brain of Einstein.

But even with the human brain there is a big difference in how we learn and how emotions are created. Majority of our emotions are created by electro-chemical reactions, something this robot brain wouldn't have.

The main reason human slaves would rebel is because of emotions or pain. Human slave muscles ache, their hands and feet hurt, they don't get much sleep or food which makes them angry and sad. Which leads to rebelling, which might make their lives better.

Now a robot that is just designed to learn basic things on its own is unlikely to rebel. It feels no pain, has no memories outside its work (nothing to miss). And it's not like these robots would be sitting around watching TV wishing of a better life, they are still pretty much a machine. in a working area that has the potential to learn information instead of having to be re-programmed all the time.

The reason robots always flip out in movies is because it's entertaining.

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But even with the human brain there is a big difference in how we learn and how emotions are created. Majority of our emotions are created by electro-chemical reactions, something this robot brain wouldn't have.

The main reason human slaves would rebel is because of emotions or pain. Human slave muscles ache, their hands and feet hurt, they don't get much sleep or food which makes them angry and sad. Which leads to rebelling, which might make their lives better.

Now a robot that is just designed to learn basic things on its own is unlikely to rebel. It feels no pain, has no memories outside its work (nothing to miss). And it's not like these robots would be sitting around watching TV wishing of a better life, they are still pretty much a machine. in a working area that has the potential to learn information instead of having to be re-programmed all the time.

The reason robots always flip out in movies is because it's entertaining.

Agreed, and well said! :tu:

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Agreed, and well said! :tu:

Cheers mate. It is an enjoyable topic I like to think about though.

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Cheers mate. It is an enjoyable topic I like to think about though.

No worries mate, yeh I love the whole subject of robots, fascinates me...but not in an eery way... Ive been watching this the past 10 mins

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3PHQP_bju0

dont know how it will end up but posting it all the same for the bot lovers!!

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What happens when the other side captures one, then reprograms it ?.

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But even with the human brain there is a big difference in how we learn and how emotions are created. Majority of our emotions are created by electro-chemical reactions, something this robot brain wouldn't have.

For now there's a big difference, I'm not saying that today we can build a real artificial brain. But later in the late future they will. What is an electro-chimical reactions anyway? It's just 2 or more neuron cells connected to each other, communicated to each other. For what? To send information from one cell to another cell. Robots don't need a biological connector and storage, all they need is some kind of metal storage (like a RAM or hard drive of a computer) and a cable to send information.

The main reason human slaves would rebel is because of emotions or pain. Human slave muscles ache, their hands and feet hurt, they don't get much sleep or food which makes them angry and sad. Which leads to rebelling, which might make their lives better.

Now a robot that is just designed to learn basic things on its own is unlikely to rebel. It feels no pain, has no memories outside its work (nothing to miss). And it's not like these robots would be sitting around watching TV wishing of a better life, they are still pretty much a machine. in a working area that has the potential to learn information instead of having to be re-programmed all the time.

The reason robots always flip out in movies is because it's entertaining.

For now they don't have emotions, but taking in consideration that it's possible, it's good to prevent it in the first place. Who knows what will go wrong when a robot "decide on its own", with or without orders.

There you go: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2169028/Japanese-inventor-creates-robot-feel-fear--pair-mechanical-buttocks-clench-spank-them.html

Until the day a robot can feel jealous and sad when you treat one robot better than another, it will decide on its own to go to its room or destroy something in the house just for a laugh.

Everything seems to be interesting until they put the word "military" in a sentence.

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DARPA seem obsessed with creating killer military robots. What concerns me is whose going to take responsibility if the programming goes wrong and a robot ends up killing innocent civilians. The perfect opportunity to get away with murder.

or a perfect way to become Immortal the one who takes responsibility will be remembered for thousends of years Example like now we study Roman History, in the future they study this time :P
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or a perfect way to become Immortal the one who takes responsibility will be remembered for thousends of years Example like now we study Roman History, in the future they study this time :P

Who will/can remember when the robots erase all humans? Oh, maybe some robots will remember him as their creator like God. :)

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  • 4 months later...

I think this is a new video.

Meet Atlas

http://www.theroboticschallenge.org/aboutrobots.aspx

ATLAS is a hydraulically powered robot in the form of an adult human. It is capable of a variety of natural movements, including dynamic walking, calisthenics and user-programmed behavior. Based on the Petman humanoid robot platform, Atlas was modified to meet the needs of the DARPA Robotics Challenge.

Near-human anthropometry

2 arms, 2 legs, torso and head.

28 hydraulically actuated joints with closed-loop position & force control

On-board real time control computer

Electric power & network tether

On-board hydraulic pump & thermal mgmt

Crash protection

Modular wrists accept 3rd party hands

Head-mounted sensor package with LIDAR, stereo sensors, dedicated sensor electronics and perception algorithms.

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