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O.D.D. obsessive debunking disorder


OverSword

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It is funny how the CT's rationalize their madness by declaring anyone who disagrees with their silliness a close-minded, angry, slave to the orthodoxy and those who believe in patently ridiculous theories as open-minded, intelligent and happy people put down by the man. LMAO. Come on, you guys are still pushing "We didn't land on the moon", "911 was an inside job" and "Aliens abduct people at night but no one ever sees it". Zero proof against reams of proof and we are the idiots? Oy vey.

I guess it makes you feel good to be told by Mr. Sheridan that believing in crazy things makes you a superior person and as far as I am concerned that is fine, feel good but just be aware it doesn't mean your beliefs are true or even rational. I am not a complete skeptic that has seen things in my travels that I can't explain but I don't leap to irrational conclusions to explain these things.

BTW , I posted this to give my CT buds some red meat to chew on until a few more of the rational folk chime in. Enjoy the gristle. LOL

You forgot Reptilians, Planet X and Ancient Aliens. This just reaffirms our views when all you can do associate all conspiratorial thought with the crazy stuff. The exaxt same technique used by the media to discredit any arguments that go against the gub'mint's word.

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Maybe we need to redefine this thread. Since it is in the CT section, does this mean that believers don't include bigfoot, aliens and that type of stuff.

Is this CT believers vs CT skeptics?

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There are so many conspiracy theories, it seems self-evident that not all "believers" believe them all. It should be self-evident that not all of them are real too, thats where this thing called critical thinking comes into play. I think you'll find a great deal of "us" don't mix conspiracies with the supernatural. But obviously I can't speak for everyone.

Edited by Glorfindel
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There are so many conspiracy theories, it seems self-evident that not all "believers" believe them all. It should be self-evident that not all of them are real too, thats where this thing called critical thinking comes into play. I think you'll find a great deal of "us" don't mix conspiracies with the supernatural. But obviously I can't speak for everyone.

I can buy that. No! Wait your pulling my leg.

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Why, because it has been proven, it was poorly run, and the attempted cover up was blown. Whats left to talk about. Obama's pupett holder shut it down and sadly no one in a position to do something about it gives a s**t!

So you avoid a real, NS conspiracy that resulted in the deaths of hundreds? Why? My theory is it is much easier to confront the imaginary and rail against the machine than to rail against the machine when it has actually committed a provable crime. Cowardice perhaps? Too hard most definitely. Fighting myths is fun because there is no real enemy there, you hurl your feces at a nonexistent foe and tell us how brave you are and what cowards and sheep we are. Fighting the real Big Brother conspiracies is scary so you guys avoid it, or make silly excuses like the one above. "nuff said

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It was YOU who used the term madness, not I.

You're very theatrical aren't you?

I merely pointed out that calling people mad for questioning government stories that happen to be full of contradictions is a sign of the times. Calling people 'mad' for questioning government stories provides considerable insight, at least in my opinion.

The word "madness' does not mean the person it is directed at is mad, it merely means their actions at a given time are madness considering the evidence offered. One can be accused of being "madly in love" yet that person would never think that they had been accused of being insane. You did, however, which is interesting.

I did not attack you, I merely pointed out that calling people mad for questioning the government is a sign of the times. How does that attack you?

Come on man, my post was mostly in jest. It was designed to get some traffic and start the battle. In the famous words of Bill Murray, "Lighten up Francis."

I agree with your examples regarding F&F and Benghazi, and that makes me all the more curious as to why you believe the nonsensical story regarding the events of 11 September. It is YOU who is being rather inconsistent in your analyses of government stories. You question F&F but accept 19 arabs with box cutters? :cry:

The facts of 911 are what they are. We got hit because we were wide open. I was over there, fought in wars there and met the people on both sides. 911 isn't a conspiracy, it is the result of complacency and a people that felt they were insulated from the real world. We got hit and we hit back.

Here is a little secret about things to come. Obama has been knocking off the leadership of the bad guys for years instead of grabbing them up and asking questions. Somehow assassination is OK with the left but hard questioning isn't. Regardless, the result is our intel has dried up. A year ago people started coming out and telling the media that this action will result in renewed attacks within two years. Well, they were wrong, it took just a year. This is a conspiracy you should use your energy on.

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In the famous words of Bill Murray, "Lighten up Francis."

Big huge +1 :tu: props for the Stripes reference... but.... its was Warren "Sgt. Hulka" Oates who said that... :)

Carry on... :D

Cz

Edited by Czero 101
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You forgot Reptilians, Planet X and Ancient Aliens. This just reaffirms our views when all you can do associate all conspiratorial thought with the crazy stuff. The exaxt same technique used by the media to discredit any arguments that go against the gub'mint's word.

As I said to the other CT taking himself to seriously, "Lighten up Francis." the damn post was in jest to get some traffic started.

Edited by Merc14
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I think that article could describe some hardcore conspriracy theorists as well, who assume everyone who doesn't believe in them is an "Idiot"

And believe everything so-called theorists tell them.

Personally I look at both sides 2 a story. I do research and then make my own mind up what's real and what's not.

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Big huge +1 :tu: props for the Stripes reference... but.... its was Warren "Sgt. Hulka" Oates who said that... :)

Carry on... :D

You are absolutely correct sir and I thank you for straightening me out. As proof this is NOT a conspiracy I post this.

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So you avoid a real, NS conspiracy that resulted in the deaths of hundreds? Why? My theory is it is much easier to confront the imaginary and rail against the machine than to rail against the machine when it has actually committed a provable crime. Cowardice perhaps? Too hard most definitely. Fighting myths is fun because there is no real enemy there, you hurl your feces at a nonexistent foe and tell us how brave you are and what cowards and sheep we are. Fighting the real Big Brother conspiracies is scary so you guys avoid it, or make silly excuses like the one above. "nuff said

I have to agree with this. I think another big part of it though is that everyone protects their own party.The mentality is that "My party cant be the party that did anything wrong" :blush:

which is how presidents get away with stuff. Half of the country will always defend them.

Edited by spartan max2
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Well said, and I agree with you on the merits of your statement. But, in this, there really is no 'middle ground', is there?

How can you/we/us divide the pie 'in half'? Truth, as far as I know, has no grey area.

Maybe we should move this to the philosophy forum. :)

Thanks, Likely Guy. Maybe there is a middle ground that recognizes that the truth sometimes can be found at the fringes. It doesn't matter if the fringe is on the left or the right, as both sides are sometimes correct. It simply depends on the issue at hand. Like you said, the truth is the truth. Bill Ayers was involved in terrorism. Smedley Butler stopped robber barons and wealthy fascists from turning our country into a dictatorship. Both conspiracy *facts* happened, and they fit into political categories that are embraced by people who don't agree on much. I read a few conspiracy books. Some had a conservative Republican tenor. Some had a liberal Democrat tone. I was aggravated and irritated by the fact that they ignored accounts that didn't fit their political beliefs. Real life is more nuanced and subtle than many conspiracy theories would have it. We should try to be as pragmatic as possible, but that can be extremely difficult to do when we discover that somebody on "our team" is a bad guy. The bad guys count on it.

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Thanks, Likely Guy. Maybe there is a middle ground that recognizes that the truth sometimes can be found at the fringes. It doesn't matter if the fringe is on the left or the right, as both sides are sometimes correct. It simply depends on the issue at hand. Like you said, the truth is the truth. Bill Ayers was involved in terrorism. Smedley Butler stopped robber barons and wealthy fascists from turning our country into a dictatorship. Both conspiracy *facts* happened, and they fit into political categories that are embraced by people who don't agree on much. I read a few conspiracy books. Some had a conservative Republican tenor. Some had a liberal Democrat tone. I was aggravated and irritated by the fact that they ignored accounts that didn't fit their political beliefs. Real life is more nuanced and subtle than many conspiracy theories would have it. We should try to be as pragmatic as possible, but that can be extremely difficult to do when we discover that somebody on "our team" is a bad guy. The bad guys count on it.

This goes along with what i just said to Merc. No one wants to blame their own party :/

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it's exactly like it is in Politicics, isn't it; you have to be one of "us" or one of "them". Really, like everything else, I suppose it's down to dogma.

It is, and it can limit us by making us stay in the box. More people see this now than they did in the very recent past. For example, both Bush and Obama introduced negative policies, and the true believers, on both dogmatic sides, won't recognize it. We all have biases, but it seems like we're beginning to recognize new ways of approaching things that aren't dependent on ideology.

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This goes along with what i just said to Merc. No one wants to blame their own party :/

It's human nature, likely tied into ancient tribalism. That's not to say that some ideas and philosophies aren't better than other ones. It's just difficult to break out of decades-old paradigms. It's the devil we know.

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So many an explanation for UFOs is given as black projects.........yet it seems black projects could never really exist due to the incompetency directed at the Government.

I think we are very naive if we really believe the Government could not hide things and manipulate both media and the public into believing what they want.

They would only have to employ 30% of the skeptics here and they would have an intelligent team more than capable IMO

Much of it is farmed out to private Enterprise, even NASA is on the privatised path already.

LINK - NASA Approves Partial Privatization of the Space Program

I especially sought out a Fox link for all the CT'ers in here, as I know they just love Fox :D

I do not think the Government can hide things forever. It's a rather fluid business with many connections.

Edited by psyche101
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Much of it is farmed out to private Enterprise, even NASA is on the privatised path already.

LINK - NASA Approves Partial Privatization of the Space Program

I especially sought out a Fox link for all the CT'ers in here, as I know they just love Fox :D

I do not think the Government can hide things forever. It's a rather fluid business with many connections.

see what I mean? If you had guys like Psyche then you would only need 20% of the skeptics here....I would have a very big bet that with guys like that in charge they would give the media and public the runaround for years and years......they would attack with uncontained aggression and destroy anyone who would try and speak against/or promote any conspiracy.....

To be clear this is no insult, I believe it is a real art to be able to do this effectively and even with the fluidity you mention Psyche (for which I do agree) I think it would still be possible.

The part about hiding it forever......forever is a real long time...so I agree.

Lets say though that it couldnt be 100% contained, this doesnt matter...anyone who 'claims' to have inside info would end up on the Daniken pile...So, as we see today, claims of cover ups etc from military and ex Government personnel are all treated in the same way.....'wheres the evidence' .....you dont have any...ok, then its hearsay! go back in your hole before we dig up your past and expose to the world the fact you like wearing pink ladies underwear on the weekend...then lets see who will listen to you......

Having said all that is there anyone who doesnt believe there was a cover up?

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You're very theatrical aren't you?

The word "madness' does not mean the person it is directed at is mad, it merely means their actions at a given time are madness considering the evidence offered. One can be accused of being "madly in love" yet that person would never think that they had been accused of being insane. You did, however, which is interesting.

Come on man, my post was mostly in jest. It was designed to get some traffic and start the battle. In the famous words of Bill Murray, "Lighten up Francis."

The facts of 911 are what they are. We got hit because we were wide open. I was over there, fought in wars there and met the people on both sides. 911 isn't a conspiracy, it is the result of complacency and a people that felt they were insulated from the real world. We got hit and we hit back.

Here is a little secret about things to come. Obama has been knocking off the leadership of the bad guys for years instead of grabbing them up and asking questions. Somehow assassination is OK with the left but hard questioning isn't. Regardless, the result is our intel has dried up. A year ago people started coming out and telling the media that this action will result in renewed attacks within two years. Well, they were wrong, it took just a year. This is a conspiracy you should use your energy on.

Ah, I see! You were posting in jest. Should have known.

And, words don't mean what they are supposed to mean, I presume? Words are in jest too, along with their meanings?

The facts of 911 are what they are? Egads, you actually DO believe in 19 arabs with box cutters. That IS funny, I admit.

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And, words don't mean what they are supposed to mean, I presume? Words are in jest too, along with their meanings?

Ha! This from the dude who has trouble understanding what 'bodies' means when Wally Miller says, 'we found no bodies at Shanksville'. (hint: 'bodies' is not the same as 'human remains')

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Ah, I see! You were posting in jest. Should have known.

And, words don't mean what they are supposed to mean, I presume? Words are in jest too, along with their meanings?

Your lack of any kind of sense of humor is strictly your problem. No clue what the rest of thsi means.

The facts of 911 are what they are? Egads, you actually DO believe in 19 arabs with box cutters. That IS funny, I admit.

Actually it was a large, highly organized, very wealthy, international terrorist organization that planned, funded and then trained these men and sent them here. tehy also knew that no one expected these people to crash a plane ino a building so box cutters were more than enough to get the job done since airline protocol is to folow the orders and get the plane on the ground and let the pros manhandle it. Shrewd thinking by educated and ruthless indiividuals.

I love when you guys frame it like you did. It is such an obvious effort to make the accepted cause seem ludicrously small when compared to the effects. Phrasing it the way I did changes the whole complexion of the argument doesn't it. So the question is why do you do it? If you really care about the truth you'd argue from the reality of the event rather than the silliness of 19 arabs with box cutters. LMAO.

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I love when you guys frame it like you did. It is such an obvious effort to make the accepted cause seem ludicrously small when compared to the effects.

Exactly. 'Arguments' like this are pretty much the dictionary definition of 'specious'.

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Merc

I do care about the truth. That's why you guys have coined the term "Troofers", in an effort to ridicule. Deny the evidence and ridicule the messenger is the Modus Operandi for those embracing the official conspiracy theory.

And the simple truth is that the official conspiracy theory fails. It is a lie, and the evidence shows that.

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Merc

I do care about the truth. That's why you guys have coined the term "Troofers", in an effort to ridicule. Deny the evidence and ridicule the messenger is the Modus Operandi for those embracing the official conspiracy theory.

And the simple truth is that the official conspiracy theory fails. It is a lie, and the evidence shows that.

We are not having that ridiculous 911 debate here but I am sure an there is an 11 year old, still thriving thread on 911 conspiracies and melting points of metal so feel free to go over there and have at it.

As for coining the phrase "Truthers", I had nothing to do with it and I am pretty sure you have no idea who coined the phrase either but I am willing ti listen to your long chain of evidence? I know there is a site named 911Truth.org so maybe they started calling themselves Truthers like teh Free Republic folks named themselves Freepers or some such thing. Do you have something better to base your accusation on or is this just another "I believe it to be so, so therefore it is!" thing?

Edited by Merc14
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Well we ARE having that debate here Merc, in a roundabout way you know. The term "debunk" certainly existed before, but Popular Mechanics has made it quite famous in this "post 911 world." And the thread title has to do with debunking, and the vast majority of the posts are related to 911, directly or indirectly. You may kid yourself if you wish, but you'll not kid me, even though your superb sense of humor and jest is greatly appreciated.

For example, mention in discussion that cell phone calls at altitude and airspeed are impossible, and you or somebody else would respond "Oh, that's been debunked." Mention that the part of the Pentagon struck was involved in an audit of large missing funds, and the response is, "oh, that's been debunked."

Mention anything at all about 911 to a believer of the OCT, and assuming the person will even acknowledge that such evidence exists, the standard response is "oh, that's been debunked", as though it is some statement from Heaven.

That's what we're talking about Merc, but jest is always welcome. :w00t:

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