Rabbi's Weiss view of Zoinism

[+and-then]

[buckskin scout]

Yeah... yeah...

you just take note of this, Christian Zionism curses the Jews through their misinterpretation of Zechariah 13:8! That is cursing the Jewish people by prophesying their doom in the Holy Land.

But do you fully realize that Israel's possession of the land is strictly conditional to the covenant of Yahweh?

God said further to Abraham, "Now as for you, you shall keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you throughout their generations. This is my covenant, which you shall keep, between me and you and your descendants after you; every male among you shall be circumcised. And you shall be circumcised in the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a sign of the covenant between Me and you. And every male among you who is eight days old shall be circumcised throughout your generations, a servant who is born in the house or who is bought with money from any foreigner, who is not of your descendants. A servant who is born in your house or who is bought with your money shall surely be circumcised; thus shall My covenant be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant. But an uncircumcised male who is not circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin, that person shall be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant. Genesis 17:9-14

"You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles' wings, and brought you to Myself. Now then, if you will indeed obey My voice and keep My covenant, then you shall be My own possession among all the peoples, for all the Earth is mine. Exodus 19:4-5

40 ‘If they confess their iniquity and the iniquity of their forefathers, in their unfaithfulness which they committed against Me, and also in their acting with hostility against Me— 41 I also was acting with hostility against them, to bring them into the land of their enemies—or if their uncircumcised heart becomes humbled so that they then make amends for their iniquity, 42 then I will remember My covenant with Jacob, and I will remember also My covenant with Isaac, and My covenant with Abraham as well, and I will remember the land. 43 For the land will be abandoned by them, and will make up for its sabbaths while it is made desolate without them. They, meanwhile, will be making amends for their iniquity, because they rejected My ordinances and their soul abhorred My statutes. 44 Yet in spite of this, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them, nor will I so abhor them as to destroy them, breaking My covenant with them; for I am the Lord their God. 45 But I will remember for them the covenant with their ancestors, whom I brought out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their God. I am the Lord.’” Leviticus 26:40-45

Then it shall come about, because you listen to these judgments and keep and do them, that the Lord your God will keep you His covenant and His lovingkindness which He swore to your forefathers. Deuteronomy 7:12

15 It shall come about that just as all the good words which the Lord your God spoke to you have come upon you, so the Lord will bring upon you all the threats, until He has destroyed you from off this good land which the Lord your God has given you. 16 When you transgress the covenant of the Lord your God, which He commanded you, and go and serve other gods and bow down to them, then the anger of the Lord will burn against you, and you will perish quickly from off the good land which He has given you.” Joshua 23:15-16

6 “But if you or your sons indeed turn away from following Me, and do not keep My commandments and My statutes which I have set before you, and go and serve other gods and worship them, 7 then I will cut off Israel from the land which I have given them, and the house which I have consecrated for My name, I will cast out of My sight. So Israel will become a proverb and a byword among all peoples. 8 And this house will become a heap of ruins; everyone who passes by will be astonished and hiss and say, ‘Why has the Lord done thus to this land and to this house?’ 9 And they will say, ‘Because they forsook the Lord their God, who brought their fathers out of the land of Egypt, and adopted other gods and worshiped them and served them, therefore the Lord has brought all this adversity on them.’” 1 Kings 9:6-9

19 “But if you turn away and forsake My statutes and My commandments which I have set before you, and go and serve other gods and worship them, 20 then I will uproot you from My land which I have given you, and this house which I have consecrated for My name I will cast out of My sight and I will make it a proverb and a byword among all peoples. 21 As for this house, which was exalted, everyone who passes by it will be astonished and say, ‘Why has the Lord done thus to this land and to this house?’ 22 And they will say, ‘Because they forsook the Lord, the God of their fathers who brought them from the land of Egypt, and they adopted other gods and worshiped them and served them; therefore He has brought all this adversity on them.’” 2 Chronicles 7:19-22

12 Then the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying, 13 “Thus says the Lord God of Israel, ‘I made a covenant with your forefathers in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage, saying, 14 “At the end of seven years each of you shall set free his Hebrew brother who has been sold to you and has served you six years, you shall send him out free from you; but your forefathers did not obey Me or incline their ear to Me. 15 Although recently you had turned and done what is right in My sight, each man proclaiming release to his neighbor, and you had made a covenant before Me in the house which is called by My name. 16 Yet you turned and profaned My name, and each man took back his male servant and each man his female servant whom you had set free according to their desire, and you brought them into subjection to be your male servants and female servants.”’

17 “Therefore thus says the Lord, ‘You have not obeyed Me in proclaiming release each man to his brother and each man to his neighbor. Behold, I am proclaiming a release to you,’ declares the Lord, ‘to the sword, to the pestilence and to the famine; and I will make you a terror to all the kingdoms of the earth. 18 I will give the men who have transgressed My covenant, who have not fulfilled the words of the covenant which they made before Me, when they cut the calf in two and passed between its parts— 19 the officials of Judah and the officials of Jerusalem, the court officers and the priests and all the people of the land who passed between the parts of the calf— 20 I will give them into the hand of their enemies and into the hand of those who seek their life. And their dead bodies will be food for the birds of the sky and the beasts of the earth. 21 Zedekiah king of Judah and his officials I will give into the hand of their enemies and into the hand of those who seek their life, and into the hand of the army of the king of Babylon which has gone away from you. 22 Behold, I am going to command,’ declares the Lord, ‘and I will bring them back to this city; and they will fight against it and take it and burn it with fire; and I will make the cities of Judah a desolation without inhabitant.’” Jeremiah 34:12-22

23 Then the word of the Lord came to me saying, 24 “Son of man, they who live in these waste places in the land of Israel are saying, ‘Abraham was only one, yet he possessed the land; so to us who are many the land has been given as a possession.’ 25 Therefore say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “You eat meat with the blood in it, lift up your eyes to your idols as you shed blood. Should you then possess the land? 26 You rely on your sword, you commit abominations and each of you defiles his neighbor’s wife. Should you then possess the land?”’ 27 Thus you shall say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God, “As I live, surely those who are in the waste places will fall by the sword, and whoever is in the open field I will give to the beasts to be devoured, and those who are in the strongholds and in the caves will die of pestilence. 28 I will make the land a desolation and a waste, and the pride of her power will cease; and the mountains of Israel will be desolate so that no one will pass through. 29 Then they will know that I am the Lord, when I make the land a desolation and a waste because of all their abominations which they have committed.”’ Ezekiel 33:23-29

Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you, and be given to a nation producing the fruit of it. Matthew 21:43

Edited April 19, 2013 by B Jenkins

[buckskin scout]

THE PROPHETS CONDEMNED THE HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATIONS OF THE STATE OF ISRAEL:

21 Then the king of Israel when he saw them, said to Elisha, “My father, shall I kill them? Shall I kill them?” 22 He answered, “You shall not kill them. Would you kill those you have taken captive with your sword and with your bow? Set bread and water before them, that they may eat and drink and go to their master.” 23 So he prepared a great feast for them; and when they had eaten and drunk he sent them away, and they went to their master. And the marauding bands of Arameans did not come again into the land of Israel. 2 Kings 6:21-23

9 But a prophet of the Lord was there, whose name was Oded; and he went out to meet the army which came to Samaria and said to them, “Behold, because the Lord, the God of your fathers, was angry with Judah, He has delivered them into your hand, and you have slain them in a rage which has even reached heaven. 10 Now you are proposing to subjugate for yourselves the people of Judah and Jerusalem for male and female slaves. Surely, do you not have transgressions of your own against the Lord your God? 11 Now therefore, listen to me and return the captives whom you captured from your brothers, for the burning anger of the Lord is against you.” 2 Chronicles 28:9-11

7 I consulted with myself and contended with the nobles and the rulers and said to them, “You are exacting usury, each from his brother!” Therefore, I held a great assembly against them. 8 I said to them, “We according to our ability have redeemed our Jewish brothers who were sold to the nations; now would you even sell your brothers that they may be sold to us?” Then they were silent and could not find a word to say. 9 Again I said, “The thing which you are doing is not good; should you not walk in the fear of our God because of the reproach of the nations, our enemies? 10 And likewise I, my brothers and my servants are lending them money and grain. Please, let us leave off this usury. 11 Please, give back to them this very day their fields, their vineyards, their olive groves and their houses, also the hundredth part of the money and of the grain, the new wine and the oil that you are exacting from them.” Nehemiah 5:7-11

11 But afterward they turned around and took back the male servants and the female servants whom they had set free, and brought them into subjection for male servants and for female servants.

12 Then the word of the Lord came to Jeremiah from the Lord, saying, 13 “Thus says the Lord God of Israel, ‘I made a covenant with your forefathers in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage, saying, 14 “At the end of seven years each of you shall set free his Hebrew brother who has been sold to you and has served you six years, you shall send him out free from you; but your forefathers did not obey Me or incline their ear to Me. 15 Although recently you had turned and done what is right in My sight, each man proclaiming release to his neighbor, and you had made a covenant before Me in the house which is called by My name. 16 Yet you turned and profaned My name, and each man took back his male servant and each man his female servant whom you had set free according to their desire, and you brought them into subjection to be your male servants and female servants.”’

17 “Therefore thus says the Lord, ‘You have not obeyed Me in proclaiming release each man to his brother and each man to his neighbor. Behold, I am proclaiming a release to you,’ declares the Lord, ‘to the sword, to the pestilence and to the famine; and I will make you a terror to all the kingdoms of the earth. Jeremiah 34:11-17

6 Thus says the Lord,

“For three transgressions of Israel and for four

I will not revoke its punishment,

Because they sell the righteous for money

And the needy for a pair of sandals.

7 “These who pant after the very dust of the earth on the head of the helpless

Also turn aside the way of the humble;

And a man and his father resort to the same girl

In order to profane My holy name. Amos 2:6-7

MOSES COMMANDED THE HEBREWS THAT THEY SHOULD NOT OPPRESS THE STRANGERS AND NON-JEWS IN THE LAND:

49 The same law shall apply to the native as to the stranger who sojourns among you.” Exodus 12:49

21 “You shall not wrong a stranger or oppress him, for you were strangers in the land of Egypt. Exodus 22:21

9 “You shall not oppress a stranger, since you yourselves know the feelings of a stranger, for you also were strangers in the land of Egypt. Exodus 23:9

33 ‘When a stranger resides with you in your land, you shall not do him wrong. 34 The stranger who resides with you shall be to you as the native among you, and you shall love him as yourself, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt; I am the Lord your God. Leviticus 19:33-34

35 Now in case a countryman of yours becomes poor and his means with regard to you falter, then you are to sustain him, like a stranger or sojourner, that he may live with you. Leviticus 25:35

18 He executes justice for the orphan and the widow, and shows His love for the alien by giving him food and clothing. 19 So show your love for the alien, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt. Deuteronomy 10:18-19

7 You shall not detest an Edomite, for he is your brother, you shall not detest an Egyptian, because you were an alien in his land. Deuteronomy 23:7

17 You shall not pervert the justice due an alien or an orphan, nor take a widow's garment in pledge. Deuteronomy 24:17

19 Cursed is he who distorts the justice due an alien, orphan, and widow. And all the people shall say, Amen. Deuteronomy 27:19

Edited April 19, 2013 by B Jenkins

[Dark_Grey]

Interesting...the 4 racist characteristics of Zionism..

It wasn't until recently that I was informed as to the real situation in the middle-east. A situation vastly different than what is portrayed here.

[+and-then]

Interesting...the 4 racist characteristics of Zionism..

It wasn't until recently that I was informed as to the real situation in the middle-east. A situation vastly different than what is portrayed here.

I've watched it these 40 years. The song remains the same. Both sides want the land, both sides fail to trust the other and both sides kill in what they think of as self defense. No real mystery. People color the conflict with their own personal biases, myself included, and they make a choice who to support. I fully realize that nothing I do is going to change a single thing there. I lose no sleep over any of it because I actually believe in the God that wrote those scriptures previously quoted - and I trust Him to complete His work in justice.

[Dark_Grey]

I've watched it these 40 years. The song remains the same. Both sides want the land, both sides fail to trust the other and both sides kill in what they think of as self defense. No real mystery. People color the conflict with their own personal biases, myself included, and they make a choice who to support. I fully realize that nothing I do is going to change a single thing there. I lose no sleep over any of it because I actually believe in the God that wrote those scriptures previously quoted - and I trust Him to complete His work in justice.

Well apparently according to God Israel will never posses the land based on the way they've been treating their neighbours. All the Biblical quotes above seem to indicate that.

[+and-then]

Well apparently according to God Israel will never posses the land based on the way they've been treating their neighbours. All the Biblical quotes above seem to indicate that.

Time will tell. If they are the usurpers and evil incarnate they are accused of being then I'm surprised they've lasted 65 years so far. According to OT scripture they will have a horrible judgement against them in the last days but they will never be dispossessed of their land again. Time will tell on that one also. Until then, I'm content to wait and watch. I will say this though, if there is ONE event that might rattle the faith of millions of Christians, it would be an Islamic takeover of all of Israel and the Jews being sent into another diaspora or, as is more likely, eradicated.

[buckskin scout]

Time will tell. If they are the usurpers and evil incarnate they are accused of being then I'm surprised they've lasted 65 years so far. According to OT scripture they will have a horrible judgement against them in the last days but they will never be dispossessed of their land again. Time will tell on that one also. Until then, I'm content to wait and watch. I will say this though, if there is ONE event that might rattle the faith of millions of Christians, it would be an Islamic takeover of all of Israel and the Jews being sent into another diaspora or, as is more likely, eradicated.

Um, lets read that piece of scripture with proper perspective:

⁷ “Are you not as the sons of Ethiopia to Me,

O sons of Israel?” declares the Lord.

“Have I not brought up Israel from the land of Egypt,

And the Philistines from Caphtor and the Arameans from Kir?

⁸ “Behold, the eyes of the Lord God are on the sinful kingdom,

And I will destroy it from the face of the earth;

Nevertheless, I will not totally destroy the house of Jacob,”

Declares the Lord.

⁹ “For behold, I am commanding,

And I will shake the house of Israel among all nations

As grain is shaken in a sieve,

But not a kernel will fall to the ground.

¹⁰ “All the sinners of My people will die by the sword,

Those who say, ‘The calamity will not overtake or confront us.’

The Restoration of Israel

¹¹ “In that day I will raise up the fallen booth of David,

And wall up its breaches;

I will also raise up its ruins

And rebuild it as in the days of old;

¹² That they may possess the remnant of Edom

And all the nations who are called by My name,”

Declares the Lord who does this.

¹³ “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord,

“When the plowman will overtake the reaper

And the treader of grapes him who sows seed;

When the mountains will drip sweet wine

And all the hills will be dissolved.

¹⁴ “Also I will restore the captivity of My people Israel,

And they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them;

They will also plant vineyards and drink their wine,

And make gardens and eat their fruit.

¹⁵ “I will also plant them on their land,

And they will not again be rooted out from their land

Which I have given them,”

Says the Lord your God. Amos 9:7-15

EDIT: Also read Isaiah chapter 60 and learn how spiritual this "event" is supposed to be, why would God use Zionism when he himself is supposed to bring the Jews back to the land?

Edited April 20, 2013 by B Jenkins