Bin Laden was not buried at sea,

[Babe Ruth]

Stealth helicopters were used because we believed that there was a possibility Pakistan knew he was there and may try to warn them considering he was located VERY close to a Pakistani military base. And yes, Pakistan does have radar. We do not "own" the skies over Pakistan. There are very strict border rules that the United States has to abide by when operating in Afghanistan. I know this because I spent years in Afghanistan.

I'm sure Pakistan does have radar. They also have nuclear weapons and supersonic aircraft, but what does that prove?

It certainly does not prove that the tail section piece at Abbottabad had anything to do with a UH-60, stealth or otherwise. It does not prove that OBL was killed there that day, and that is the important thing.

[skyeagle409]

I'm sure Pakistan does have radar.

...

Now, you know why the helicopters were modified for the bin Laden operation in Pakistan.

...It certainly does not prove that the tail section piece at Abbottabad had anything to do with a UH-60, stealth or otherwise.

On the contrary, wreckage in the photo is in fact, from an MH-60.

It does not prove that OBL was killed there that day, and that is the important thing.

Of course it does, in which case, you are proven incorrect again.

Edited May 21, 2013 by skyeagle409

[Agent0range]

I'm sure Pakistan does have radar. They also have nuclear weapons and supersonic aircraft, but what does that prove?

It certainly does not prove that the tail section piece at Abbottabad had anything to do with a UH-60, stealth or otherwise. It does not prove that OBL was killed there that day, and that is the important thing.

Well, to be completely honest with you, I don't care about your conspiracy theory or about what you believe at all. The only thing my post was out to prove was that your comment about stealth helicopters being unecessary for the mission being discussed made no sense at all. You attributed the use of the stealth helicopters to fear of Al Qaeda radar which shows that given your knowledge of the subject, you shouldn't even be participating in this thread. Obviously (just to humor you) if said mission actually occurred, stealth helicopters (again to humor you), if they existed, would need to be used due to the belief that Pakistan knew where Bin Laden was.

[Babe Ruth]

Welcome to the forum Agent Orange.

You completely misunderstood my post, and maybe that was my fault, but I don't think so.

The tail section provided, assuming the pictures of it are true and accurate, is planted. It does not match any helicopter in the US inventory, and it was not functioning at the time it was placed on the ground.

OBL the dialysis patient has been dead since 2001, and the Abbottabad story was presented to change the political subject, nothing more.

Why are people so gullible? Why do they so readily believe known liars? Why do they cling to stories that are so obviously false?

[through the fire]

Why are people so gullible? Why do they so readily believe known liars? Why do they cling to stories that are so obviously false?

I honestly think the people who believe this type of story usually have some form of learning difficulty. Our poor little buddy sky eagle is the perfect example.

He simply is incapable of understanding that there is literally zero evidence bin Laden was killed in this Pakistan raid.

I mean, sure, you can try to explain it the way you would to a child but he doesn't have the intellect to understand that a piece of helicopter wreckage is not proof that he was killed, an anonymous "al-Qaeda" statement on the

Internet is not proof, and news reports from corporate media are not proof.

There's really not much point in debating things

with anyone who is that low functioning mentally.

Edited May 22, 2013 by through the fire

[Babe Ruth]

My guess is that some people simply are unable to accept that their government would deceive them.

[skyeagle409]

The tail section provided, assuming the pictures of it are true and accurate, is planted.

No it wasn't. It is ridicules to think the United States would have penetrated Pakistan airspace just to plant a prop. BTW, the United States had other aerial assets airborne to support the bin Laden mission, which included fighters and other support aircraft.

As I have said before, not knowing the rest of the story is why 911 truthers concoct unfounded conspiracy theories.

It does not match any helicopter in the US inventory, and it was not functioning at the time it was placed on the ground.

Why would the U.S. military reveal a top secret aircraft in operational while in 'black' status? Apparently, you do not know much about how we handle our top secret assets. Did the Air Force post photos of the F-117 and B-2 stealth aircraft while they were still in 'black' status? Of course not, so what makes you think the United States would reveal a top secret helicopter on the Internet?

BTW, wreckage in the photos are in fact, from a modified Black Hawk helicopter..

[skyeagle409]

My guess is that some people simply are unable to accept that their government would deceive them.

Seems you have been duped again by those conspiracy websites. And furthermore, you are not knowledgeable about helicopters either, which was evident when you made non-rotating tail blades an issue. Simply amazing!!

Pakistani boys collect debris at the site of the crashed helicopter outside the luxury compound that hid Al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden in Abbottabad on May 3, 2011.

http://www.globalpost.com/photo/5642714/osama-stealth-helicopter-2011-5-5

Edited May 22, 2013 by skyeagle409

[Agent0range]

You're absolutely right that the Commanche incorporated stealth technology, but the rest of the story is that the Commanche product never came to market. 1 or 2 prototypes was all there was.

And the other part of the story is that The Legend Of Abbottabad says Blackhawks were used, not Commanches, which would have been only a gunship platform.

The other part of the story never discussed, a question never asked, is just why on earth would "stealth" helicopters be involved at Abbottabad at all? That suggests that AQ, or whoever the bad guy of the day is there in Pakistan, had radar facilities that the US had to avoid. Pure nonsense. The US "owns" the skies over there, and the bad guys have no radar, only shoulder-launched AA weapons which are visual and not radar controlled.

So, why did they even need a mythical stealth helicopter for success of the operation? They did not.

Sky clings to this story like he clings to the impossible story of 911. So it goes for a person who chooses to defend the indefensible.

@Babe Ruth

Clearly I did not misunderstand your post. I was commenting in regards to THIS post. Where you stated it made no sense to use stealth helicopters. I could really care less about your conspiracy theories and knowledge (or lack thereof) regarding the helicopter parts located on site.

And who are you to say it doesn't match any helicopter in the US inventory? As a military member for 8 years including 4 spent in the middle east, I have seen aircraft on bases that don't match anything in the US inventory.

Edited May 22, 2013 by Agent0range

[skyeagle409]

I honestly think the people who believe this type of story usually have some form of learning difficulty. Our poor little buddy sky eagle is the perfect example.

He simply is incapable of understanding that there is literally zero evidence bin Laden was killed in this Pakistan raid.

On the contrary, the fact that al-Qaeda has confirmed that bin Laden was killed by U.S. special forces and the fact that bin Laden was replaced as leader al-Qaeda shortly after his death is a hint that the official story is right on the money. Add to the fact that bin Laden's family and the Pakistani government confirmed the death of bin Laden, what more is there to say?

I mean, sure, you can try to explain it the way you would to a child but he doesn't have the intellect to understand that a piece of helicopter wreckage is not proof that he was killed, an anonymous "al-Qaeda" statement on the

Internet is not proof, and news reports from corporate media are not proof.

On the contrary, one of my jobs was not only overhauling military helicopters, but modifying them as well. To sum it up, consider yourself another duped victim.

[through the fire]

On the contrary, one of my jobs was not only overhauling military helicopters, but modifying them as well. To sum it up, consider yourself another duped victim.

Well there we have it - you worked on helicopters therefore you know everything that the government has ever done. Consider yourself mentally handicapped.

I seriously hope you realise how stupid you seem when you say your working on helicopters gives you any kind of credibility to claim you know bin Laden is dead without any evidence whatsoever.

[skyeagle409]

Well there we have it - you worked on helicopters therefore you know everything that the government has ever done. Consider yourself mentally handicapped.

Not in the least!

Let's put it this way, I am in a much better position to know much more than you because of my vast experience in the field of aviation for over 40 years.

[skyeagle409]

U.S. Aides Believe China Examined Stealth Copter

WASHINGTON — In the days after the raid that killed Osama bin Laden, Pakistan’s intelligence service probably allowed Chinese military engineers to examine the wreckage of a stealth American helicopter that crashed during the operation, according to American officials and others familiar with the classified intelligence assessments.

Such cooperation with China would be provocative, providing further evidence of the depths of Pakistan’s anger over the Bin Laden raid, which was carried out without Pakistan’s approval. The operation, conducted in early May, also set off an escalating tit-for-tat scuffle between American and Pakistani spies.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/15/world/asia/15copter.html

Attack on Bin Laden Used Stealthy Helicopter That Had Been a Secret

The assault team that killed Osama bin Laden sneaked up on his compound in radar-evading helicopters that had never been discussed publicly by the United States government, aviation analysts said Thursday.

Bill Sweetman, the editor of a military trade publication owned by Aviation Week, reported that the damaged helicopter appeared to have five or six blades in its tail rotor, instead of the four in a standard Black Hawk. That could have allowed operators to slow the rotor speed and reduce the familiar chop-chop sound that most helicopters make.

A cover on the rotor that looks like a dishpan or a hubcap in the news photographs may have also helped reduce so-called radar signature of the craft, the analysts said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/06/world/asia/06helicopter.html

[Sweetpumper]

31 pages. This is ridiculous.

[through the fire]

Not in the least!

Let's put it this way, I am in a much better position to know much more than you because of my vast experience in the field of aviation for over 40 years.

Your experience in aviation gives you more insight into the killing of bin Laden despite the fact that there is no proof?

That is what you're claiming right?

[skyeagle409]

Your experience in aviation gives you more insight into the killing of bin Laden despite the fact that there is no proof?

It is all very simple to understand. The Pakistani government, and the family of bin Laden confirmed the death of bin Laden, which explains why Ayman al-Zawahiri was appointed as the al-Qaeda leader shortly after the death of bin Laden. Since then, the world has never heard from bin Laden again.

Simple facts to understand that doesn't require the knowledge of a rocket scientist.

[Babe Ruth]

No, it doesn't require a rocket scientist. To the contrary, considering the source and the context, it requires a fool.

[skyeagle409]

No, it doesn't require a rocket scientist. To the contrary, considering the source and the context, it requires a fool.

Considering the world has never heard from bin Laden again, and keeping in mind the change of leadership within alQaeda shortly after his death, not to mention confirmations of his death from al-Qaeda, Pakistan, bin Laden's family and from DNA test, it becomes very clear what happened to bin Laden, especially since no tape was released from him countering reports of his death, and remaining silent would simply hand the United States a victory and he wouldn't have allowed that considering that he declared war on the United States.

We know that bin Laden did not die in 2001 because he has released a number of tapes since then and he has addressed President Barack Obama by name, so the question is; who was responsible for spreading false reports of bin Laden's death in 2001?

Osama bin Laden Tapes

January 19, 2006

Al Jazeera broadcasted an audiotape of bin Laden addressing citizens of the United States again.

April 23, 2006

Al Jazeera broadcasted parts of an audiotape. On this tape,bin Laden accuses the Western world of waging a Zionist crusade against Islam. He comments on Hamas, Darfur and the situation in Iraq.

May 23, 2006

Al Jazeera broadcasted a 5-minute audiotape from bin Laden, where he claims he, alone, assigned the hijackers to perform the September 11 attacks. bin Laden comments on the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui, the prisoners in Guantanamo Bay, and the imprisoned journalists Sami al-Hajj and Tayssir Alouni, denying that any of them (apart from a few Guantanamo Bay prisoners) were connected with al-Qaeda.

Osama bin Laden tells viewers that Zacarias Moussaoui "had no connection at all with September 11. I am the one in charge of the 19 brothers and I never assigned brother Zacarias to be with them in that mission. I am certain of what I say because I was responsible for entrusting the 19 brothers... with the raids."

June 30, 2006

An Islamist website posted a recording, in which bin Laden praised Abu Musab al-Zarqawi as a "lion of Jihad". The 19-minute video shows a still picture of bin Laden next to video celebrating al-Zarqawi. US officials said that the tape was authentic.

July 14, 2007

A few days after the Lal Masjid siege by the Pakistani government (and after a video released by al-Zawahiri), bin Laden released a tape. He was shown with a fatigued expression. He came out in a video clip less than a minute long on a militant website. BBC News reports that it was "undated and correspondents say it may be re-run footage. Its authenticity also cannot be independently verified."

September 11, 2007

A second video appeared purportedly featuring a eulogy by bin Laden to 9/11 hijacker Waleed al-Shehri. In the video, a voice identified as bin Laden's delivers the 14-minute introduction. The voice is heard over a still picture of bin Laden, dressed and groomed as he appears in the September 7, 2007 video. The 33-minute balance of the recording is a video will read by al-Shehri.

September 20, 2007

An audio tape appeared with bin Laden's voice over previously released footage of him. In the audio tape, bin Laden called on Pakistanis to overthrow President Pervez Musharraf, promising what he called retaliation for the storming of the Red Mosque in the capital, Islamabad, in July.

November 29, 2007

An audio tape appeared purportedly by bin Laden has urged European countries to end their military involvement in Afghanistan

December 29, 2007

In an audiotape Osama bin Laden warned Iraq's Sunni Arabs against fighting al-Qaeda and vowed to expand the group's Jihad to Israel, threatening "blood for blood, destruction for destruction."

The title of this message is "The Way To Frustrate The Conspiracies."

March 19, 2008

On March 19, 2008, an audio tape appeared purportedly by al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden "threatens" the EU over the re-printing of a cartoon offensive to Muslims.

The title of this message is "May our Mothers be bereaved of us if we fail to help our Prophet." Its full transcript and tape is located at

March 20, 2008

On March 20, 2008, a second audio tape appeared purportedly by al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden urging Palestinian militants to join the insurgency in Iraq.

May 16, 2008

On May 16, 2008, an audio tape appeared purportedly by al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden issued to the Western People: "Reasons of the struggle on the occasion of the 60th anniversary of the founding of the occupying state of Israel" The message is 22 minutes, 41 seconds long. The message addresses the 60th anniversary of the founding of the state of Israel.

May 18, 2008

On May 18, 2008, a second audio tape appeared purportedly by al-Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden issued 'A very strong statement to the Islamic nation and Muslims'. The second in three days, once again is an audio message, with no new imagery of bin Laden seen. A video version of the message was released showing an older still image of bin Laden while an audio message plays in the background.

January 14, 2009

On January 14, 2009, a new audio recording purportedly by bin Laden posted on Islamist websites called for a new jihad over the Israeli offensive in Gaza and said the global financial crisis has exposed the waning influence of the United States in world affairs and that it will in turn weaken its ally Israel. The recording was accompanied by a still photo of Bin Laden superimposed over the al-Aqsa mosque in Jerusalem.

June 3, 2009

According to a recording aired by Al Jazeera on June 3, Bin Laden made a statement against President Barack Obama.

September 13, 2009

On September 13, 2009, an audio recording purportedly by Osama Bin Laden was released on an Islamist website.

September 25, 2009

On September 25, 2009, a forum participant posted to a jihadist website links to download an audio statement from al-Qaeda leader Osama Bin Ladin. The statement, entitled "A Message From Shaykh Osama Bin Ladin to the People of Europe," is 4 minutes, 47 seconds, and in Arabic with German and English subtitles available. The video shows a still photograph of Bin Laden.

January 24, 2010

New audio tape released to al-Jazeera news features a voice claiming to be Osama bin Laden taking credit for the attempted bombing by Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab. The authenticity of the tape has not yet been verified.

January 29, 2010

A tape allegedly (remains unverified) from bin Laden was released by al-Jazeera, in which the leader of al-Qaeda excoriated the U.S. for its reluctance to address climate change. Bin Laden called for a worldwide boycott of American goods and the United States dollar in order to have a huge impact on the American economy.

March 25, 2010

Another new audio tape allegedly from bin Laden was released by al-Jazeera. In this tape, the leader of al-Qaeda threatened that the execution of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed would result in al-Qaeda indefinitely murdering Americans in the event of their "falling into our hands".

October 1, 2010

An audiotape allegedly featuring the voice of bin Laden surfaced on the Internet and addresses the flooding in Pakistan. The 11-minute tape, posted on militant websites Friday, focused on relief efforts and what can be done to prevent future natural disasters. In the recording, bin Laden reportedly urges a change in how governments execute relief work and calls for the creation of a relief group to study Muslim regions located near rivers and low-lying areas. He also calls for a greater investment in agriculture. The U.S.-based SITE Intelligence Group, which monitors terrorist forums, says the latest message is heard in a video featuring a photograph of bin Laden superimposed over images of aid distribution.

October 2, 2010

The audio of a follow up speech allegedly by Osama bin Laden was released onto the internet. The title of the speech was "Help Your Pakistani Brothers" in which he expressed his feeling that the response of Arab and Muslim leaders to the Pakistani's affected by the flooding "did not match the level of the disaster" and that more people are affected by climate change than wars.

October 27, 2010

In a new audio tape from Osama bin Laden he is demanding that France withdraw its troops from Afghanistan.

January 21, 2011

On January 21, 2011 Osama bin Laden said the release of French hostages depends on a pullout of France's soldiers in Afghanistan and warned Paris of a "high price" for its policies, in a tape broadcast on Friday. "We repeat the same message to you: The release of your prisoners in the hands of our brothers is linked to the withdrawal of your soldiers from our country," said the speaker on the audiotape broadcast on Al-Jazeera television.This was the final tape released by Bin Laden prior to the confirmation of his death on May 2, 2011. A new audio message that Osama Bin Laden recorded before his death was released on May 7, 2011.

May 19, 2011

A recording purported to have been made by Osama shortly before he died has been released by al-Qaeda. In the message, he praised the revolutions in Tunisia and Egypt and speaks of a "rare historic opportunity" for Muslims to rise up. The 12-minute audio message came out on a video posted on Islamist websites, and has been translated by the SITE Institute.

Edited May 23, 2013 by skyeagle409

[Babe Ruth]

Egads, the spam!

[skyeagle409]

Egads, the spam!

Just to let you know that Osama bin Laden was still alive years after the 911 attacks. The fact he made a speech against President Obama was another hint and two years later, it was payback time when Obama got Osama.

[lightly]

Hi SkyEagle, could you please post the SOURCE of that list of 'bin laden' tapes?

Most of the audio tapes listed are all prefaced with statements like "purportedly" or "allegedly" Bin Laden . Audio tapes are not really convincing evidence .

[W Tell]

It is all very simple to understand. The Pakistani government, and the family of bin Laden confirmed the death of bin Laden, which explains why Ayman al-Zawahiri was appointed as the al-Qaeda leader shortly after the death of bin Laden. Since then, the world has never heard from bin Laden again.

Simple facts to understand that doesn't require the knowledge of a rocket scientist.

This is like saying that Treyvon carried out all of the robberies because they stopped when Zimmerman killed him. Couldn't be another reason. Yeah right.

[skyeagle409]

Hi SkyEagle, could you please post the SOURCE of that list of 'bin laden' tapes?

Most of the audio tapes listed are all prefaced with statements like "purportedly" or "allegedly" Bin Laden . Audio tapes are not really convincing evidence .

Here are a few.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3966817.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6899398.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/8253827.stm

http://www.juancole.com/2009/09/bin-laden-message-to-europe-withdraw.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8477413.stm

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iyRuGELbwVh3vdcsZjfgBiH2ZHmw?docId=CNG.6c9112361ca8ab047a38f11b8af9539f.351

http://www.voanews.com/content/alleged-bin-laden-tape-hits-internet-104150999/127076.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Videos_and_audio_recordings_of_Osama_bin_Laden#cite_note-61

[skyeagle409]

This is like saying that Treyvon carried out all of the robberies because they stopped when Zimmerman killed him. Couldn't be another reason. Yeah right.

Well, are you implying that the Pakistani government, al-Qaeda, and bin Laden's family lied about his death? Are you implying that a senior leadership change did not occur within al-Qaeda shortly after the death of bin Laden? Was a tape released from bin Laden challenging reports of his death?

No real mystery there.

[W Tell]

Well, are you implying that the Pakistani government, al-Qaeda, and bin Laden's family lied about his death? Are you implying that a senior leadership change did not occur within al-Qaeda shortly after the death of bin Laden? Was a tape released from bin Laden challenging reports of his death?

No real mystery there.

Nope no tape. And admittedly, they haven't said he was dead... yet..... like the other eight times.

You don't have ****. on his death. Your opinion means the same as the ones that believid he died from kidney failure or the one that believd he was killed at Toro Bora, or the ones that believd he died by a bodygaurds bullet.

Government won't give you a single shred of evidence to prove your case.

But as skeptics... I'm sure we'll welcome you in with open arms Sky. Welcome to the family!