Afghan women jailed for moral crimes rises

[Mr Walker]

With regards to women, we both agree on the bolded part; but generally among immigrant communities women are more able to integrate more than men.

Integration does not necessarily mean blind copying of the host culture, or totally abandoning one's cultural heritage. Integration is opting for a compromise between both cultures, accepting to adopt the 'new home land' as a full member of its society, and also accepting that one's children and grandchildren will not live the same culture as their parents. My husband and I raised our children to be proud of the heritage they inherited from both parents, but they are European. Being half Egyptian does not mean that they were expected to live like Egyptians of their age. We maintained some Egyptian traditions at home, but not those that would place them in conflict, whether internal (psychological) or external.

What I was referring to in my previous post was ghettoization, whether physical or cultural; movements like "Sharia for....", the excessive ease with which the accusation of 'racism' is leveled at any one who complains about transgressions or misbehavior of an immigrant. If cultural diversity is to be a success, one side should be tolerant, the other should 'integrate', it's a two-way street. A foreign body, that remains foreign, leads to inflammation and infection!

I appreciate your pov especailly as you have lived it. In my society that attitude might be considered racist. While I think we agree with the extremist outcomes such as introducing sharia law Australia has evolved a differnt perspective based on historical events.

For example once we realised that aboriginal people weren't going to die out, the next policy was assimilation into european culture and lifestyle.The many layered and longlasting disaster this created made governments and people in australia very wary of assimilation for migrants as well.

In the last 30 years or so we have been officially a multicultural society where you can live your own culture, attend your own schools speak your own language etc. BUT within an overall framework of austrlaian law. For example all schools maust teach standard australian curricula and attain certain proficiencies in maths english etc.

So far it appears to have worked fairly well although there are some stressors and tensions which may increase with increased refugee intake from diverse backgrounds.

But it is illegal for anyone in austarlia to discriminate in any way on the basis of; race, gender, age, religion, or disability for example

That mkes it illegal to demand something of a person which opposes their beliefs, UNLESS it contradicts australian law, such as female genital mutilation, marriage under the age of consent or forced marriage.

In official govt policy, and in reality, foreign bodies are a source of flavour, diversity and attributes and skills for our society. Making us all the same dilutes both the flavour and the nutritional vlaue of our melting pot of cultures.

Your point on women is very true, and understandable because of the natural "social networking" of women. Children are perhaps the first to change, especailly if they attend schools which are multicultural.

Edited June 2, 2013 by Mr Walker

[meryt-tetisheri]

Lol, that smiley you used was very suitable for calling me a racist! How can I be a racist when I myself am Egyptian? And no, I'm not one of those self-hating people, I'm very comfortable with who I am, and proud of my heritage You slipped into the ever-ready, easy answer: "racist", not applicable in my case!

May I remind you that I said in my previous post "Integration does not necessarily mean blind copying of the host culture, or totally abandoning one's cultural heritage. Integration is opting for a compromise between both cultures"? Integration does not mean assimilation, but rather cultural accommodation.It is only with a workable successful compromise that foreign bodies become a source of flavor. To continue with the 'foreign body' analogy, 'connective tissue' is needed for the well-being of all parties; otherwise one ends up with a polarized fragmented nation composed of separate segregated islets. There must be a minimum cultural unifying force shared by all. Such a process requires the participation of all, migrants and host countries.

I think I'm being down to earth and practical, not bigoted or racist

[Mr Walker]

Lol, that smiley you used was very suitable for calling me a racist! How can I be a racist when I myself am Egyptian? And no, I'm not one of those self-hating people, I'm very comfortable with who I am, and proud of my heritage You slipped into the ever-ready, easy answer: "racist", not applicable in my case!

May I remind you that I said in my previous post "Integration does not necessarily mean blind copying of the host culture, or totally abandoning one's cultural heritage. Integration is opting for a compromise between both cultures"? Integration does not mean assimilation, but rather cultural accommodation.It is only with a workable successful compromise that foreign bodies become a source of flavor. To continue with the 'foreign body' analogy, 'connective tissue' is needed for the well-being of all parties; otherwise one ends up with a polarized fragmented nation composed of separate segregated islets. There must be a minimum cultural unifying force shared by all. Such a process requires the participation of all, migrants and host countries.

I think I'm being down to earth and practical, not bigoted or racist

I actually agree with you,but not up to the point where people from differnt cultures are forced to adopt "the Australian culture" just because they live here. Immigrants have changed the australian culture since i was a child in the 1950's, in many ways; almost all for the better. Now, modern australian culture reflects a cutural diversity I never knew as a child, and as new cultures blend into it, they will evolve it even more .

I didnt mean to suggest you were racist. I was poking fun, in a ironical way, at your comment that proponents of assimilation/integration can be considered racist. That is indeed the public and govt view here, because the idea of assimliation/integration of our native peoples is considered racist, and this attitude is also transferred to our approach to immigrants..

Perhaps it is beacuse austrlain cuture is only about 200 years old and our national identy only a bit over 100, and in that time has always been changing/ evolving.

We therefore dont see change/evolution of society as a threat to our cultural identity, like a person form europe, whose culture might stretch back thousands of years, could.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Mr Walker

[Arbenol]

That is indeed the public and govt view here, because the idea of assimliation/integration of our native peoples is considered racist, and this attitude is also transferred to our approach to immigrants..

I agree that it's misguided to view cultural assimilation as racist. But Australia is in something of a unique position. It's attempts to assimilate Aborigines fits many definitions of genocide. Consequently, it's probably a little sensitive to the term.

[meryt-tetisheri]

I actually agree with you,but not up to the point where people from differnt cultures are forced to adopt "the Australian culture" just because they live here. Immigrants have changed the australian culture since i was a child in the 1950's, in many ways; almost all for the better. Now, modern australian culture reflects a cutural diversity I never knew as a child, and as new cultures blend into it, they will evolve it even more .

I didnt mean to suggest you were racist. I was poking fun, in a ironical way, at your comment that proponents of assimilation/integration can be considered racist. That is indeed the public and govt view here, because the idea of assimliation/integration of our native peoples is considered racist, and this attitude is also transferred to our approach to immigrants..

Perhaps it is beacuse austrlain cuture is only about 200 years old and our national identy only a bit over 100, and in that time has always been changing/ evolving.

We therefore dont see change/evolution of society as a threat to our cultural identity, like a person form europe, whose culture might stretch back thousands of years, could.

I know, no offence taken, I too was poking fun at you, that it's "devilish" to call me racist

You still persist in using integration as a synonum for assimilation!

As Arbenol68 mentioned, Australia is a different case. In Europe the rumble is rising and unless a real effort is done by all parties to realistically address the problem it might end up ugly. A European friend of mine summerized that point of view when she said about immigrants' unwillingness to adapt to and adopt their new country 'they reject us, they are here only for the money, but disrespect our culture'. Take a look at the arguments on the UK forum...putting the onus of social cohesion and harmony on only one of the parties will simply not work. I am not talking about people's religious beliefs, how they pray or what language they speak at home, but when some try to recreate and enforce their home country in parts of the new country, then it's time to seriously consider the politically incorrect concept of integration, before things arrive to the boiling point.