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Old Stephen will be alright, i guess. i don't really see why this would hurt anybody. It's also not something i made up on the fly, i have not only read that in Jung's books (whom i regard to have been a proper scientist), but on many occasions that time is not necessarily going linear, from a starting point in what we refer to as "the past" into "the future". That's how WE percieve it.

Science is far from understanding everything that's going on, otherwise all scientists could go home and pick up some time-killing hobby....

So there would be no reason to dismiss other life. Arrogance and a slated knowledge presents the importance of disproof, just as greed and selfishness drive the extremist trying to shove it down everyone's throats. :)

Just like every single issue in the world there is always the two far sides of the argument that make even their own side shake their head at times. For example I believe in E.T.'s and other forms of existance but I think AA is a pile of garbage designed to send people into the Rabbit Hole.

I don't understand why you started mentioning time, but ok...

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i mentioned time because when it comes to Jungs "collective conciousness", most people percieve it as a kind of storage hard drive that saves information of humanitys PAST only. But according to him, it may also allow an outlook into our own future.

I brought that up as an alternative explanation to what you said. (Please correct me if i got you wrong, but from what i understood, you say that all kinds of people starting to dabble into the "meta" all of a sudden is kind of a proof of an alien intelligence and/or heritage). Although i find it possible that there is intelligent life out there, it sounds a bit too far fetched to me that they control us in any way, but yeah, who knows. To me, it is just more plausible that all of this is just the human collective conciusness is getting ready to make the next evolutionary leap.

darn typo.

Edited by Jacques Terreur
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Why wouldn't they make contact with an intelligent and sentient being? Heck, we interact with all creatures on our own planet personally if possible, and most people wouldn't consider them on par with our own intelligence. But I guess I'm just attributing E.T. with human characteristics on that one.

I don't think we interact with other species on our planet.We kill and eat them, or try to clone or improve them to be harvestable for us in a medical sense. I am really wary in case this is a "norm" throughout the universe and that WE may be treated with the same methods by other advanced(?) planets. On a less serious note, the original poster wonders where the aliens are? Well I have it on good authority they are all at home right now because the latest series of Alpha Centauri Big Brother started last Wednesday !

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[/size]

We don't know how common life is around the universe. We know that life here on Earth took a series of extremely uncommon conditions and occurrences. Another thing we know about solar systems is that they tend to produce planets that can't support life as we understand it.

There are many more things we don't know about life. For example how often is all life on a planet is completely exterminated? It may be more common in the universe for life to exist for a few million years then die out forever. Maybe in those 13.8 billion years there were other civilizations that are now gone.

When you account for everything required to make life happen and continue, you can speculate that there may not be life in, say, the 400,000 solar systems closest to us. Once you put life hundreds of light years away, it might as well not exist to us.

True, we don't know yet how common life may be, but we are finding more and more clues. For example, we know that the building blocks of what we may think is life, can be found on meteorites, and we also know that water is in great abundance it appears in the universe, as we also know it was once in abundance on Mars, and its on Europa, and probably Enceladus. We are finding more and more info the more we look.

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In fact I just got done reading a web story whereby 3 more planets have been found in another Gliese type system about 22 light years from earth, that COULD possibly have life of some type as they lie in the "goldilock zone" of their start system where any water would most likely be liquid. We are getting closer all the time.

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In fact I just got done reading a web story whereby 3 more planets have been found in another Gliese type system about 22 light years from earth, that COULD possibly have life of some type as they lie in the "goldilock zone" of their start system where any water would most likely be liquid. We are getting closer all the time.

Oh, if life were only a matter of getting a planet the right distance from its sun! That's just step #1 of a list that's getting longer every year.

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Well, we know that it did on Earth, and Mars almost certainly had the right conditions a while back,

And Mars is almost certainly a dead planet now. Not encouraging.

and that's assuming that life must take the form that we're familiar with on Earth, and that it might not develop in all sorts of ways to suit conditions on planets and/or Moons that we wouldn't imagine could possibly be hospitable.

Since physical laws are the same everywhere, it's not unreasonable to assume that life would develop the same way everywhere. Any other way is a matter of pure speculation with no basis in fact.

What we're doing is working from the basis of what we're familiar with. There might be a lot more ways that we're not familiar with.

Or there might be not. We have no reason to believe there is other than some people really really really really want there to be life on other planets. I don't understand this desire. Have they given up on Earth?

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And Mars is almost certainly a dead planet now. Not encouraging.

Well obviously, I'm not talking about now, am I. :rolleyes:

Any other way is a matter of pure speculation with no basis in fact.

Oh no, Speculation? That would never do. We have to stick to what we know. :rolleyes:

Or there might be not. We have no reason to believe there is other than some people really really really really want there to be life on other planets. I don't understand this desire. Have they given up on Earth?

What, and you're completely indifferent to the idea? You're really completely indifferent to what might be out there in the whole universe? Very strange.

Edited by Colonel Rhuairidh
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Actually we don't know for sure yet that Mars is dead as far as life is concerned. It is possible there may be life of some type just below the surface. Thats where the (frozen) water is, and then there is the methane given off in summer on Mars. Methane can possibly be from life of some form, most likely in the past, that lived on Mars when it was much warmer and wetter.

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I have to ask... why couldn't some form of life exist on a planet based on methane, instead of water and oxygen, or maybe a star trek like world where the life is based on silicon or some other, totally unlisted element we don't even know about yet because it doesn't exist on this, our world.. why does it have to require all the various conditions that were required by the living things on this planet. There are so many possibilities. it strikes me that we... how do I put this... we hinder ourselves by saying ONLY this and this and this can lead to these results .......

yes we want to find earthlike planets so that someday IF we can figure out how to get there we have someplace to explore and inhabit but is that all we are interested in. Maybe that is why the aliens don't visit this planet more,( not that I am saying that they do or ever did but.....) the landscape and atmosphere is So different They cannot leave their vessels

Edited by mysticwerewolf
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Maybe that is why the aliens don't visit this planet more,( not that I am saying that they do or ever did but) the landscape and atmosphere is So different They cannot leave their vessels

i'd think that if somebody or something is actually capable of interstellar travel, they'd have also figured out a way to leave their craft....imagine there's a flight to mars, conducted by NASA, and when they manage to land there, the astronauts only peek out of the window and say:" yup! Mars! Nice....let's get back home"... ;)

And about your first thought: i just remembered seeing a BBC documentary called ALIEN PLANETS, in which they speculated on how life could look like on different planets and under different circumstances. In one episode, they actually showed an alleged silicon based life form, but that one owed to his silicon-basedness the fact that it moved incredibly slow. If i remember right they said that such life might be mistaken to be "just a rock" by human beings.....but don't quote me on that! ;)

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i'd think that if somebody or something is actually capable of interstellar travel, they'd have also figured out a way to leave their craft....imagine there's a flight to mars, conducted by NASA, and when they manage to land there, the astronauts only peek out of the window and say:" yup! Mars! Nice....let's get back home"... ;)

personally I agree but that doesn't mean it is a fact, or a fiction... it just erks me that scientists seem to be so blind as to believe OR make everyone else believe that the way we came into existence is the only way.

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Great Thread OP!

Where are all the Aliens indeed! I think about this often and as much as I passionately believe in the possibility of the possible, regarding this matter, I think that we are not 'supposed' to encounter other intelligent life beyond our solar system. I also think that there is no other intelligent life, besides us, within our solar system.

We live on a planet that is perfect for life, that is, life as we -know it-. Our planet is situated between that celestial sweet spot from the Sun and the Moon. We have sentries (Jupiter and Saturn) that protects our section of space by deterring outer solar system passer-byes. (I won't get into the science of this, because I'll get side-track and lose my main point.) I just think that where we are -now- we are here for a reason and we'll never really find out that reason. Maybe we don't really have Free Will after all, and so we are bound to this planet and this solar system... for a reason. But whatever that reason, it won't stop us from believing or not that there is other intelligent life out there...somewhere. Part of the human condition is to imagine and to dream and I don't think there is anything wrong with dreaming of beyond the stars nor imagining what would happen -if- our universal neighbours or multi-universal neighbours wanted to come over for a visit. As long as they didn't outstay their welcome of course.

We could very well be in some 'incubator' stage and we are off-limits to otherworldly others. Or maybe we are just simulations running on a very outdated computer and no one from tech support has come round yet to update us. Or perhaps, they already have been here and left and just didn't tell anyone where they have been. Or maybe, they did encounter one of our Voyagers and didn't like what they saw. It is truly amazing as to what is on the Golden Record... I would also be hesitant if I saw a picture with a smiling man holding a machete. http://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/spacecraft/images/image063.gif

But yes, where are all the Aliens? I am a believer that it isn't -just us-; however, I just think that we are supposed to be left 'alone'.

Kind Regards :)

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personally I agree but that doesn't mean it is a fact, or a fiction... it just erks me that scientists seem to be so blind as to believe OR make everyone else believe that the way we came into existence is the only way.

hmm....i guess that our scientists are clever enough to take the "life-but not as we know it"- thing into account on their search.

Otherwise it would be a very humanocentric (or carbon-o-centric?) endeavour to search for something like our twin race out there.

And why would some sinister group want to make us believe life on earth is the blueprint for the whole universe?

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the only reason aliens would come to earth, is to observe us, examin us, even our environment and our atmosphere, only to destroy us in one swift move without destroying the planet

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Oh no, Speculation? That would never do. We have to stick to what we know. :rolleyes:

Speculation is fine as long as it is presented as speculation. Some are so wildly passionate about the aliens they want to exist that they pass pure science fiction as science.

What, and you're completely indifferent to the idea? You're really completely indifferent to what might be out there in the whole universe? Very strange.

"What might be out there" doesn't necessarily include life to me. I followed every minute of Heygens landing on Titan and it wasn't because I thought there would be life there.

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I have to ask... why couldn't some form of life exist on a planet based on methane, instead of water and oxygen, or maybe a star trek like world where the life is based on silicon or some other, totally unlisted element we don't even know about yet because it doesn't exist on this, our world..

Life needs a good medium for chemical reactions. Liquid water works great for this because as a liquid it's a great solvent and the temperature range where it's a liquid is perfect for many chemical reactions useful for life. The temperatures where it turns into gas and solid are unusually close so it is stored and spread around the planet very easily.

Liquid methane only exists in very cold temperatures or very high pressures. This limits its usefulness as a solvent and a reaction medium. No one has come up with a workable model of how life would function in a methane environment.

BTW there is no such thing as an "unlisted element". They're all in the periodic table.

why does it have to require all the various conditions that were required by the living things on this planet. There are so many possibilities. it strikes me that we... how do I put this... we hinder ourselves by saying ONLY this and this and this can lead to these results .......

Because we have only one model that has produced life. The more you learn about life, the more you'll see that there aren't many possibilities at all. Anyone who believed in the Star Trek universe with planet after planet full of life will be very disappointed.

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i'd think that if somebody or something is actually capable of interstellar travel, they'd have also figured out a way to leave their craft....imagine there's a flight to mars, conducted by NASA, and when they manage to land there, the astronauts only peek out of the window and say:" yup! Mars! Nice....let's get back home"... ;)

I'm sure they'd have developed some pretty sophisticated environmental suit technology.

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Life needs a good medium for chemical reactions. Liquid water works great for this because as a liquid it's a great solvent and the temperature range where it's a liquid is perfect for many chemical reactions useful for life. The temperatures where it turns into gas and solid are unusually close so it is stored and spread around the planet very easily.

Liquid methane only exists in very cold temperatures or very high pressures. This limits its usefulness as a solvent and a reaction medium. No one has come up with a workable model of how life would function in a methane environment.

BTW there is no such thing as an "unlisted element". They're all in the periodic table.

Because we have only one model that has produced life. The more you learn about life, the more you'll see that there aren't many possibilities at all. Anyone who believed in the Star Trek universe with planet after planet full of life will be very disappointed.

That we know of so far, true. It would be very interesting to be near Titan in maybe a few million years to see if some form of methane based life evolves though me thinks. I for one, do not believe that life must be based on oxygen breathing. We will find out soon, as more and more and more planets are discovered daily. Stay tuned!

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That we know of so far, true. It would be very interesting to be near Titan in maybe a few million years to see if some form of methane based life evolves though me thinks. I for one, do not believe that life must be based on oxygen breathing.

And what basis do you establish this belief on?

We will find out soon, as more and more and more planets are discovered daily. Stay tuned!

We will not find out soon since we will have no idea if there is any form of life on these planets. Maybe in a few more centuries.

One thing we have found is that other solar systems don't often have the convenient organization of the rocky planets being close to the sun and the gas giants being distant from it, nor do they have the nearly circular orbits that prevent temperature shifts that tend to exterminate life. Once again it looks like Earth benefited from still more unusual circumstances.

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One thing we have found is that other solar systems don't often have the convenient organization of the rocky planets being close to the sun and the gas giants being distant from it, nor do they have the nearly circular orbits that prevent temperature shifts that tend to exterminate life. Once again it looks like Earth benefited from still more unusual circumstances.

Rocky planetes obiting a star in ''the habitable zone'' is not rare at all. Nasa keep finding Earth-like planetes more and more! As I said, the surface has barely been scratched and so far the results are very interesting. This is only in our surrounding in one galaxy. Needless to say it's a very small scale research in the Universe perspective.

Look at this:

http://www.futurity....habitable-zone/

“These planets are good candidates to have a solid surface and maybe an atmosphere like the Earth’s, not something like Jupiter,” Barnes says, adding that the number of potentially habitable worlds will be substantially greater if astronomers can expect to find several around each low-mass star like GJ667C.''

Edited by sam_comm
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Rocky planetes obiting a star in ''the habitable zone'' is not rare at all. Nasa keep finding Earth-like planetes more and more! As I said, the surface has barely been scratched and so far the results are very interesting. This is only in our surrounding in one galaxy. Needless to say it's a very small scale research in the Universe perspective.

Look at this:

http://www.futurity....habitable-zone/

“These planets are good candidates to have a solid surface and maybe an atmosphere like the Earth’s, not something like Jupiter,” Barnes says, adding that the number of potentially habitable worlds will be substantially greater if astronomers can expect to find several around each low-mass star like GJ667C.''

The real questions are...what about the gravity? The period of rotations and revolutions? I think aliens won't bother colonize a planet if it doesn't fit these criteria.

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Assuming that there really are any intelligent beings out there, and assuming they developed interstellar space flight, and on top showed any interest in us here, i'd think they would be far ahead of everything our science and technology can come up with recently. And if you take into account that on our own planet one can still find some tribes of people living like our "civilised" part of the world used to hundreds or thousands of years ago, which are studied by scientists who try to not interfer with them to avoid any shock or disturbance, then i would assume the aliens might do the same.....

The moral question of whether to leave them alone so they can be "studied" as they are or to carefully provide them help to prevent diseases and suffering is a touchy one.

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The moral question of whether to leave them alone so they can be "studied" as they are or to carefully provide them help to prevent diseases and suffering is a touchy one.

true. I didn't want to advocate the remote studying and not interferring practice, i just used it as an analogy... ;)

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I'm sure they'd have developed some pretty sophisticated environmental suit technology.

or just something like the Mars Rover. Everybody likes remote-controlled stuff!

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