Edgar Mitchell calls for end to UFO cover-ups

[kwin]

So, you think he successfully demonstrated ESP during his private Apollo-14 ESP experiment? Why?

We do agree, I presume, that you believe Mitchell's first hand testimony that neither he nor any Mercury, Gemini, or Apollo astronaut he worked with ever encountered any UFOs on space flights? He was there. He should know, right?

JO- maybe you should go back & read the original article so that you can maintain a proper 'topic' bearing and if you don't understand the coffin issue do a little research. It was the times - post war 1947. There were many choices in coffins. Just sayin......

[conspiracy buff]

They eventually put them all in a freezer.

The general consensus within the Ufology community is that the bodies of the aliens along with the wreckage were sent to Wright-Patterson Field in Ohio for storage of the bodies and further study of the downed craft. If you assume the Ramey memo was legit, the evidence is literally in Ramey's hands for all the world to see thanks to technology. Debunkers can explain things away all they want to but how do you debunk a physical memo in the suspected cover up leader's own hands? And I do not believe those bodies are the only ones in storage as there have been multiple crashes throughout the years and the govt owns the evidence. It is simply hidden away so that no one has the tangible evidence and so the existing UFO cover-up can continue as it has since Roswell[and maybe even before, who really knows for sure?].

Edited July 19, 2013 by conspiracy buff

[S2F]

JO- maybe you should go back & read the original article so that you can maintain a proper 'topic' bearing and if you don't understand the coffin issue do a little research. It was the times - post war 1947. There were many choices in coffins. Just sayin......

Do you (or anyone else for that matter) have anything verifiable to show that there were actually child sized coffins delivered to the USAF or is it hearsay that has been repeated so often it 'must' be true?

[Tau Ceti Xeta]

The goverment should come clean on ufos and be done with it

Easier said than done.

If i were in charge of MJ-12 i would drag my feet as long as possible.

The problem is that - Disclosure- would lead to more and more questions.

The truth is very disturbing.

[JimOberg]

..... If you assume the Ramey memo was legit, the evidence is literally in Ramey's hands for all the world to see thanks to technology. ....

You've put your finger on the heart of the matter.

You just 'assume' something, if it's convenient to your point of view.

In the real world of investigatove journalism, or science, or equity investing, or criminal investigations, where bad guessing can HURT, you don't assume.

You test.

For the claim that computer analysis can 'fill in' a poorly-resolved image of a memo, what does a rational person do?

You prepare a number of memos of various content. You photograph them at the resolution of that news photo. You send them to the reviewing analysts and ask them to read them.

You then ask another party to compare the 'readings' to the original. Among the pairs you submit for analysis, you salt several pairs that are either a lot more accurate, or a lot LESS accurate, than an adequate level of accuracy. You see if the reviewers can detect these plants.

This is called 'blind testing'. Even 'double blind'. It's what the grownups do.

Correct me if I've missed it, but isn't it true that nobody in the 'science' of ufology has even considered doing that? Nobody has actually done that?

Just keep assuming. You wind up with partially true assumptions that carry no weight -- sort of 'half-assumptions' for 'half-assumers'.

[gOOgLer]

Aliens do exist. So what? :-)

[Tau Ceti Xeta]

Aliens do exist. So what? :-)

It looks like they caught one on video. Reptilian?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGAMjVm69u0

[Tau Ceti Xeta]

As it applies to the UFO cover-up, Edgar Mitchell is right. Most people these days already believe that the UFO phenomena is indeed very real and that the government knows and has known all about it for decades. If an astronaut who has been to outer space tells us something else is out there, we should pay attention. The fact is Edgar Mitchell is not the only astronaut to go public about his opinion on UFOs and the cover up that is on going. That should tell an informed person that there is more to the topic than meets the eye and that the government knows what that something is. I do believe they have used so much disinformation that it is hard to separate when the government is simply covering black projects or the times when legit UFO events occur. But I think all observers can agree that numerous lies have been told to the US by our own government for so long that its credibility does not exist.

Yes, our U.S. Government lied to us.

That's because the advanced technology is dual use technology . (Both Military & Civilian Applications)

The U.S. Government has the right and the responsibility to protect its secrets.

[gOOgLer]

Houston, we have alien problem. :-)

[MySummerJob]

The problem is that there will still be doubt even if they come clean. They will definitely have to show evidence to make their claims seem less pandering, and more "Here is what's going on".

Take for example this video:

[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEQdvYFMBAU[/media]

I saw this video when it was new (early June), and it still leaves me with an empty feeling because all this is really is just empty words. Where is the evidence? Don't get me wrong though, I believe we have been visited by aliens before. I just need valid proof before I start celebrating.

[RabidCat]

Yes, our U.S. Government lied to us.

That's because the advanced technology is dual use technology . (Both Military & Civilian Applications)

The U.S. Government has the right and the responsibility to protect its secrets.

Yes, USG lied to us. They do it all the time. That said, there are some fallacies about technology here, and I say this with the authority of more than three decades of engineering experience (electronics, specifically control systems, with ventures into other areas).

First, the USG uses disinformation, very effectively, along with misinformation and no comment. Money (power) does essentially the same. Money can, and does, steer popular science down the paths taken, with any other avenues being left cold and broke, along with that good ole "peer review" pressure applied to keep one's mouth firmly shut about any extraordinary truth.

Second, I assume your reference to "the advanced technology" is a reference to all that crap about alien technology being the cause of where we are in tech development. I assure you that everything you see and/or hear about in technology was developed entirely by the human race, not given us by some benevolent little gray things with big eyes. Every single piece of technology I'm aware of can be traced from its initial discovery (probably 1700- 1900) to its current state. For instance, the natural progression of integrated circuits begins with the discovery of what is now known as the Schottkey diode: a piece of galena crystal in junction with a metallic probe such as a safety pin, used in crystal radios, early 1900s. Transistors were demonstrated in the early 1930s in rudimentary form, with Schottkey being the first to produce a practical junction, 1950s. Said transistor technology was improved upon to make them smaller and more durable (the Schottkey junction is fragile). Said improvements were combined on substrates to produce RTL, Resistor-Transistor Logic, improved to be DTL, Diode-Transistor Logic, and finally TTL, Transistor-Transistor Logic, the parent of all current logic. Schottkey's company contained employees who birthed different ideas than the Schottkey road, and formed a company called Fairchild Semiconductor, generally considered to be the founding father of modern integrated circuits. None of these men had even the slightest help from aliens or alien technology the government may or may not posess. These are straight facts, and can easily be checked out by doing a little hard research into the history of electronics.

As to applications, there are not just two applications of technology, there are at least three, in conventional terms. In my early aerospace days, my (then) company built three separate types of certain items. One of these was a data encoder transmitter/recorder. First was a box 12'x12"x18", 512 channel encoder/recorder for commercial aircraft use. Second was a box 1.5"x1.5"x6", 1024 channel pulse code modulated encoder/recorder/transmitter with both analog and digital signals superimposed, for use in NASA etc. applications. Third type was 1.5"x1.5"x 0.5", 1024 channels PCM as above, produced for use by exotic laboratories such as Sandia Labs, JPL and so on. The latter two were radiation hardened for space use. The third was required to withstand 20,000G 3 axis. All made by humans, BTW. We never knew what the latter two were used for, just that those boxes had specific requirements. That list could go on for quite a time.

It may also be said, now, that intel did not develop the first processor (4004), it was preceded by several years by a COSMOS 8/16 bit CPU (cannot mention the company name), also radiation hardened and milspec for use in military/aerospace/exotic applications. We also had access to a different technology, very low power, very very fast (standard clock speed 10.2GHz), sputtered onto sapphire, not silicon. Again, no mysterious aliens helped with that. These things were around when I first started in R&D electronics, 1972. I'm absolutely certain that there were other technologies that surpassed those I was associated with, very likely some in field technology and such like. It's also a fact that what you read in the electronics books in college ain't necessarily true, it just works most of the time.

Reference my statement money steering technology next. To clarify, grants are given, research is funded, etc., etc. and so on. What gets funded is the means of steering R&D, whether it be in technology or theoretical science. It has been this, precisely, that has steered theoretical physics down the quantum path, even against logical and reasonable doubt. It can be said that to some extent, believing in theoretical physics is tantamount to believing in Islam or Christianity. Look at it from an objective perspective: QP/QM wants you to believe, for instance, that somehow photons pop into existence to transfer charge between electrons, then disappear when the math no longer needs them (Feynmann). That there is some form of time dilation/contraction (Einstein). That space is curved, and the universe is not infinite, it's some sort of globule hanging around in space (a logical person might ask "what's outside the globule" and be shouted down by manic physicists whose applecart might be upset). For many years, space was a vacuum; now it becomes filled with 'dark matter' and 'dark energy'. Does anyone question this with reference to ether physics, whose vacuum was filled with some sort of 'elastic solid'? QP/QM has invented all sorts of stuff they say you should believe in, quarks and colors and strings and this and that, while never showing a single iota of physical evidence that such junk exists. They would have you believe that the laser was a product of particle physics, while at the same time Heisenberg's Uncertainty proves the laser won't work. A bylaw of physics is 'if you can't measure it, it doesn't exist'. Unfortunately, quantum physics used that argument to stifle ether physics, yet current theoretical physics violates their own "logic".

Sorry. It's become a little too much for my poor Mensan mind to encompass all these lies. By the way, I witnessed a test of a 6MW laser in Silicon Valley, 1981, so anyone claiming we couldn't build powerful lasers back then is full of crap. One demo of that laser destroyed a bit of space junk, an old satellite gone dead. Another: homopolar motors/generators won't work. So what the heck is one company doing developing a 20,000 hp homopolar motor for the US Navy if it won't work (actually, it's probably done by now, I encountered in through a back door several years ago, and GA doesn't fool around when they get going on research) (no, I'm not going to say the name of the company; find it yourself, if you're interested, I did).

In shortest terms, friends and neighbors, most, if not all, of this alien tech stuff is mere speculation. Us humans don't really need help. And you really don't want to know how far we've really come, technically and in real world physics, since I started in this crap forty two years ago. Just research it and think about it a little, and you'll see. Maybe.

[conspiracy buff]

You've put your finger on the heart of the matter.

You just 'assume' something, if it's convenient to your point of view.

In the real world of investigatove journalism, or science, or equity investing, or criminal investigations, where bad guessing can HURT, you don't assume.

You test.

For the claim that computer analysis can 'fill in' a poorly-resolved image of a memo, what does a rational person do?

You prepare a number of memos of various content. You photograph them at the resolution of that news photo. You send them to the reviewing analysts and ask them to read them.

You then ask another party to compare the 'readings' to the original. Among the pairs you submit for analysis, you salt several pairs that are either a lot more accurate, or a lot LESS accurate, than an adequate level of accuracy. You see if the reviewers can detect these plants.

This is called 'blind testing'. Even 'double blind'. It's what the grownups do.

Correct me if I've missed it, but isn't it true that nobody in the 'science' of ufology has even considered doing that? Nobody has actually done that?

Just keep assuming. You wind up with partially true assumptions that carry no weight -- sort of 'half-assumptions' for 'half-assumers'.

You are the textbook example of my classification of most people on this forum as active debunkers as opposed to healthy skeptics. Your entire response to me was conjecture based on your simple disagreement over my viewpoint on this subject matter. And when you had nothing of real substance to offer, you attack my opinion on the matter. Correct me if I'm wrong here Jim, but that is not what "grownups do", is it? Every time you have ever quoted me and replied you reply with some self righteous crap belittling my view as a believer and meanwhile trying to enhance your own skeptical views as more intellectual or factual. The only person assuming anything is you because clearly you don't believe there is anything to the UFO cover up topic despite decades of circumstantial and trace evidence to the contrary. If believers are guilty of assuming I guess that means hardened debunkers like yourself are guilty of being oblivious to reality.

Edited July 21, 2013 by conspiracy buff

[JimOberg]

.... And when you had nothing of real substance to offer, you attack my opinion on the matter. ....

I take it this is your way of saying 'no, nobody has ever actually validated the memo-reading method.'

[Midyin]

If Edgar Mitchell, Dmity Medeved, and Paul Hellyer say "ETs are real, and the Gov is lying to you." Then I can buy it...

There's a big difference between not believing and not WANTING to believe..

Edited July 21, 2013 by Midyin

[S2F]

If Edgar Mitchell, Dmity Medeved, and Paul Hellyer say "ETs are real, and the Gov is lying to you." Then I can buy it...

There's a big difference between not believing and not WANTING to believe..

There is also a difference between WANTING to believe and knowing. I'd prefer to know. As such the evidence for alien visitation is sorely lacking.

[MySummerJob]

There is also a difference between WANTING to believe and knowing. I'd prefer to know. As such the evidence for alien visitation is sorely lacking.

I have to agree that at this point it is just empty words, and blind faith.

We really need cold hard evidence to mark it down as "knowledge of being visited".

[conspiracy buff]

I take it this is your way of saying 'no, nobody has ever actually validated the memo-reading method.'

If I can play Devil's advocate for a moment then no one has ever debunked the memo reading method either. Debunkers are guilty of being oblivious because the guy who deciphered the Ramey memo was an expert in his field. He certainly knows more than the average poster on an internet forum who mocks legit research. Once again, opposing clashing mindsets are front and center on this issue because serious unbiased research dictates that one at least considers the evidence. Something that most active debunkers are unwilling to do because it clashes with their world views or stances against anything UFO related.

[JimOberg]

If I can play Devil's advocate for a moment then no one has ever debunked the memo reading method either. Debunkers are guilty of being oblivious because the guy who deciphered the Ramey memo was an expert in his field. He certainly knows more than the average poster on an internet forum who mocks legit research. .....

Please show us proof of that beyond his own claims.

When/where was this method ever validated by double-blind testing?

Onus probandi -- it's not up to a skeptic to disprove a claimed method that has never been proved. Basic.

[conspiracy buff]

Please show us proof of that beyond his own claims.

When/where was this method ever validated by double-blind testing?

Onus probandi -- it's not up to a skeptic to disprove a claimed method that has never been proved. Basic.

Once again, when/where was the method ever debunked by double-blind testing? So you are pretty much disregarding a memo which has been theorized as the holy grail of ufology in the very same hands of the man who has long been suspected as the man in charge of the govt's UFO cover-up? What are the odds that a memo with words like "crash victims" and "disk" would be deciphered in a memo in the hands of Ramey? Therein lies the paradox between skeptics and believers; believers cannot be disproven and skeptics cannot be convinced. It is the clashing of mindsets that has been ever since ufology became a serious field and that will not soon change. Now I'm no mathematician but it seems astronomically overwhelming as far as odds that the Ramey Memo refers to the very event that skeptics dismiss as nonsense. Which in my estimation is paramount to burying your head in the sand and pretending nothing ever happened. I do not believe the military would have went to such lengths to explain the Roswell story away if it had been of no importance to them or not a legit case of UFO/phenomena. They have changed their story on the event so many times that their credibility is less than zero & anyone with one iota of common sense would see there is more to the story. That's not even including the other rumored meetings between past presidents and alien races or the trace cases in which tangible disturbances are left behind indicating something landed and took off. Also not including the numerous cases of "alien abduction" in which people not connected all over the planet have detailed similar cases and descriptions of beings which have been consistent throughout the last 80 years or so.

To simply state the obvious, there is something going on in regards to the alien & UFO topic and most skeptics are content to pick out the easiest cases to explain away while avoiding the more difficult ones. As I alluded to before, healthy skeptics are at least willing to consider the possibility whereas active debunkers are unwilling to let the evidence speak for itself and simply want to explain events away because it clashes with their total world view and personal bias. Care to take a guess where you land, Mr. Oberg?

Edited July 23, 2013 by conspiracy buff

[Grey Area]

To simply state the obvious, there is something going on in regards to the alien & UFO topic and most skeptics are content to pick out the easiest cases to explain away while avoiding the more difficult ones.

And there lies part of the problem. If a known skeptic goes on record stating that they are unsure about a particular case, that instantly becomes some form of proof. The whole area of UFOlogy has become some strange bastardized religious faith where the only proof that you need is faith itself. Is it any wonder skeptics wont go near the genuinely unexplainable cases?

But regardless of whether skeptics dodge particular cases or not, the mere fact that there are skeptics dictates that even the most prolific cases provide little of no convicing arguments of ET existance and visitation.

But in my opinion it all boils down to common sense, and an understanding of human nature. The whole field has become really unhealthy. Proffessionally I am a Social Worker, who works with Children. I could actually open an X-Files of Social Services with some the cases I have dealt with, from kids faking demonic possession in order to get what they want, a lad who believed that deuteronomy was written for him and believed there were personal messages to him exclusively. But the corker is the child I worked with who genuinely believed they were being abducted by aliens (They werent, they had a significant Mental Illness). My point here is that the vast majority of the ET camp are impressionable teens and early twenties, who lack the psychological maturity and world experience that would enable them to rationalise claims, ask most skeptics and I bet they will tell you that as children and maybe even young adults they believed in Alien Visitation. I remember as a child reading books on UFO's in fear, fear that aliens were going to come and take me away, and also a really unhealthy caution of anyone wearing a dark suit, and I would further add that a lot of the sites on the internet that preach Alien conspiracy drivel are at the least guilty of borderline child exploitation and at the worst guilty of Child abuse. It's a nighmare passive aggressive situation.

The vast majority of UFO cases simply require a dash of common sense. Take Roswell as the classic example. Clearly something happened at Roswell, clearly the DOD didnt want the truth to be known, that is all but indisputable. Now apply a little perspective. The largest war and arms race in the history of mankind had just been concluded, the cold war was just beginning. Money was being thrown at scientists of all nationalities to participate in defense projects. Is a crashed Alien spacecraft really the most logical answer to what happened there?

[Midyin]

There is also a difference between WANTING to believe and knowing. I'd prefer to know. As such the evidence for alien visitation is sorely lacking.

Yeah, but these aren't just three names I pulled out my ass.

I'm to citing David Ike or Alex Jones here. Dmitry Medeved, Paul Hellyer, and Edger Mitchell are actually respected(AKA NOT TINFOIL HAT QUACKS)...

Dmitry Medeved.= Russian Prime Misnsister, Paul Hellyer = Ex-Minister of defense(Canada), And now Edger Mitchell an American Astronaut. You don't get to these positions in life by being stupid nieve or a superstitious paranoid consperacy theorist..

Edited July 23, 2013 by Midyin

[JimOberg]

Dmitry Medeved.= Russian Prime Misnsister, Paul Hellyer = Ex-Minister of defense(Canada), And now Edger Mitchell an American Astronaut. You don't get to these positions in life by being stupid nieve or a superstitious paranoid consperacy theorist..

I take it, then, that when Apollo-15 moon walker Jim Irwin claimed he'd found proof of Noah's Ark, you were forced to admit it was true?

[JimOberg]

You don't get to these positions in life by being stupid nieve or a superstitious paranoid consperacy theorist..

I take it, then, that when astronaut Gordon Cooper disclosed amazing investment opportunities in a series of aerospace projects in the 1980s, you would have contributed your life savings? Put in your kids' college funds? Mortgaged your home? Many people did -- to the tune of millions of dollars. What do you suppose happened to every penny, and why?

[Midyin]

Honestly Jim, I never heard either of those stories, but I'll be sure to google them. They sound comical... lol

[JimOberg]

Honestly Jim, I never heard either of those stories, but I'll be sure to google them. They sound comical... lol

Let me know if you need links.

The point is, there is not a category of "officially annointed truth sayers" in our secular society -- we are all of us human, subject to error, and deserving of calibration and evaluation.

Mitchell is a sweet, imaginative, honest man who spent his life on the fringes of knowledge in the ESP field. His grand hopes, expressed forty years ago, have been dashed -- the things he was sure he would discover and prove, never happened, despite his sincere belief in their reality [his report on the results of his Apollo mission ESP experiment shows how wishing things to be true can still fail to prove them -- read it and see]. But i'm glad there were and are people like him willing to commit their lives and reputations to exploration.