Israel Releases Prisoners (Again)

[buckskin scout]

When Abbas walks away (my guess is next month) and the Palestinians go to the UN again pressing for the next step toward statehood then the murderers of innocents in Israel will be walking in freedom and laughing. Only I doubt they do it in public - the MOSSAD isn't a civilized opponent. The older I get the more it bewilders me the stance the whole world takes at this one small country. So small it should be geographically and politically just a footnote to world affairs, it takes up more attention than continents. It was all foretold yet no one believes that, while at the same time having no real answer for WHY this is so. The disconnect is amazing to me.

Ezekiel 38 and 39 explain a miraculous saving of Israel at a time when the country itself cannot defend against all the powerful enemies that will come against it. When people hear of this prophecy they laugh, thinking it's a fable but if they bothered to read the 2 chapters just before 38,39 they would see that THESE things came true in the 20th century. Oh well.... I guess when the laughing stops it will just be replaced by worse things.

So you link salvation with the destruction of another people's ancestral home? To me, that is blasphemous. God is just to both Jews and Gentiles alike.

[buckskin scout]

Your answer is for Israel to disappear. It's never going to happen and eventually a global war is going to be the result of people who demand it. Only fools would push a nuclear power into such a corner that they felt the need to use them. But that's what's coming eventually. All the rest of this rhetoric is just bull****. Other nations have done FAR WORSE and are given a pass. Yet this tiny state of about 7 million is the focus of the entire freakin' world - and you don't think that's unusual at all...and you - of course - are NOT anti semitic, oh no..... all I can say is that when the SHTF, crying and moaning about it is going to do NOTHING. The time to try and make a difference is BEFORE they get pushed into the corner.

Because the Zionists had no legal claim to Palestine. The UN Partition Plan violated Article 1 of the UN charter.

Which sets forth the principle of self-determination for ALL peoples of the Earth (including the Palestinians).

And the Plan was not binding because it was never passed by the Security Council but by the General Assembly, which does not have the powers to legislate but only to recommend.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Israel is "God's Country" right? The Israeli's God's people.

It'll be fine. The Israelis will be fine, God is, after all, on their side. Which leads me to want to hold them to a standard I consider worthy of God's people.

[+and-then]

Israel is "God's Country" right? The Israeli's God's people.A

It'll be fine. The Israelis will be fine, God is, after all, on their side. Which leads me to want to hold them to a standard I consider worthy of God's people.

And you feel they are NOT currently being held to such a standard? Who, exactly, is giving them a pass? The whole world minus the US hate their guts and would gladly see them destroyed - you know it's true. And if their behavior was an exemplar for the world in every respect they STILL would be hated...just for being who they are. It's almost comical the way many here - I exclude you from this because you are at least reasonable about the situation - cannot answer the question of what they would do to solve the problem. They hem and haw and will never admit that in reality their solutions would indeed require Israel to trust a blood enemy with their lives and the lives of their children. Enemies who have proven through their actions for decades that they will always come back for more blood eventually.

For most on this planet, the nation of Israel is illegitimate and should be removed. It's people should be scattered throughout the world again (this is the BEST option) and the land given back to it's "original" inhabitants. Obviously the Jews intend to prevent this if they can. And they CAN.

So for the sake of fairness I ask you - if Israel returned to the '48 lines, allowed all the refugees and their progeny to return and even paid reparations - what do you think would happen? Do you believe there would be peace finally?

[Zaphod222]

It attracts attention because its borders were unilaterally decided, controls a religious nexus while occupying and surpressing a native people like they were sub- human. Not unlike their own plight in the second world war.

This is total BS, but of course it is exactly the sort of virulent propaganda emanating from islamist sources. And the low-information sheeple mainly on the political left gobble it up.

The islamists have taken Joseph Goebbels advice to heart: If you lie, lie big, and repeat the lie many times. Eventually, people believe it.

[Zaphod222]

Israel is "God's Country" right? The Israeli's God's people.

It'll be fine. The Israelis will be fine, God is, after all, on their side. Which leads me to want to hold them to a standard I consider worthy of God's people.

There are seven million of those, living on a tiny speck of land, surrounded by 700 million hostile believers in a competitive god, who are convinved that it is their godly command to commit the second holocaust on the Jews.

Guess who has more reason to worry? And now look at whose side you take.

What hypocrisy.

[Phaeton80]

There are seven million of those, living on a tiny speck of land, surrounded by 700 million hostile believers in a competitive god, who are convinved that it is their godly command to commit the second holocaust on the Jews.

Guess who has more reason to worry? And now look at whose side you take.

What hypocrisy.

Lmfao.

What absolute, unrivalled BS. Yes, they are surrounded with 700 million Murderous Muslims with nine inch fangs all waiting for the chance to decimate / eradicate the Jewish People 'because their G*d orders them to do so'.

I know youre a toxic individual from earlier comments on this forum, but this is ridiculous, even for you. ..Even managing to end with 'What hypocrisy'. People like you truely scare the hell out of me.

The beautiful thing is, you are just like the 'Muslim' extremists who have read verse 2:191 for instance - or had it read to them because of their illiteracy - and think that opens the way for them to start murdering Jews indiscriminately.

In other words, you are just like the fringe fanaticals you love to implicate Islam with. Beautifully ironic, isnt it.

It might be an idea to actually read any given source completely, from front to cover, as opposed to using it as an encyclopedia - looking up verses here and there, not held back by any sense of context - like you and all like you seem to love to do.

Especially when dealing with religious scripture. But obviously this is going to fall on deaf ears, in your case anyway.

You need help, seriously.

[+and-then]

Lmfao.

What absolute, unrivalled BS. Yes, they are surrounded with 700 million Murderous Muslims with nine inch fangs all waiting for the chance to decimate / eradicate the Jewish People 'because their G*d orders them to do so'.

I know youre a toxic individual from earlier comments on this forum, but this is ridiculous, even for you. ..Even managing to end with 'What hypocrisy'. People like you truely scare the hell out of me.

The beautiful thing is, you are just like the 'Muslim' extremists who have read verse 2:191 for instance - or had it read to them because of their illiteracy - and think that opens the way for them to start murdering Jews indiscriminately.

In other words, you are just like the fringe fanaticals you love to implicate Islam with. Beautifully ironic, isnt it.

It might be an idea to actually read any given source completely, from front to cover, as opposed to using it as an encyclopedia - looking up verses here and there, not held back by any sense of context - like you and all like you seem to love to do.

Especially when dealing with religious scripture. But obviously this is going to fall on deaf ears, in your case anyway.

You need help, seriously.

That book HAS NO sense of context. It's a hodgepodge of instructions designed to facilitate the subjugation of it's adherents. PERIOD. I guess you figure Van Gogh had it coming also? What a piece of work....

[Phaeton80]

Ofcourse it hasnt, but the Bible has. Is that correct? You ofcourse know what you are talking about, as you undoubtedly have studied the Qur'an in an objective manner and have taken the effort to research the situation in which certain verses were handed down.

What the murder of Theo van Gogh, a fellow Dutchman of mine - may he rest in peace, has to do with this eludes me. That is not to say I dont understand where this remark of yours is coming from..

Complete and utter ignorance laced with some strong bias in relation to this subject.

Yes, the 'biggest gravest threat' / 'clear and present danger' to the 'civilized world' is the 'backward barbaric religion' known as Islam, which reveres a G*d which is 'competitive' to 'the Jewish & Christian G*d' - and all 'terrorists' prove this fact on a weekly basis.

You people should ask money for this.. its hilarious.

Talk about eyes wide shut.

[+and-then]

[Orcseeker]

This is total BS, but of course it is exactly the sort of virulent propaganda emanating from islamist sources. And the low-information sheeple mainly on the political left gobble it up.

The islamists have taken Joseph Goebbels advice to heart: If you lie, lie big, and repeat the lie many times. Eventually, people believe it.

So the Israelites, American Jews and such around the world standing up to the tyranny of the Zionist government in Israel is complete bs and propaganda?

Listen to yourself.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

So for the sake of fairness I ask you - if Israel returned to the '48 lines, allowed all the refugees and their progeny to return and even paid reparations - what do you think would happen? Do you believe there would be peace finally?

No. The hatred runs too deep.

There is no "better option", at best we have a "stop making things worse" option - which is for the Israelis to lift the blockades on Gaza and to stop building in the contested areas. They lose nothing by saying "and today we stop giving our enemies excuses to hate us".

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

There are seven million of those, living on a tiny speck of land, surrounded by 700 million hostile believers in a competitive god, who are convinved that it is their godly command to commit the second holocaust on the Jews.

Guess who has more reason to worry? And now look at whose side you take.

What hypocrisy.

The side of the innocent dead.

On all sides.

I do not excuse the Israelis OR the Palestinians, I have repeatedly said THEY'RE ALL WRONG.

I know my Bible. God left Israel to the wolves the last time they turned into aggressors, I do not want to see that happen again, especially not in this closeminded and bigoted world because I can see the whole "turning away the boats" from before the Second World War happening again.

Edited August 20, 2013 by Sir Wearer of Hats

[+and-then]

No. The hatred runs too deep.

There is no "better option", at best we have a "stop making things worse" option - which is for the Israelis to lift the blockades on Gaza and to stop building in the contested areas. They lose nothing by saying "and today we stop giving our enemies excuses to hate us".

Do you recall why the blockade began initially? Or why the wall was built? The intifada bombings were killing citizens of all ages in buses and shops - even in a Seder meal. The rockets and mortars from Gaza began within weeks of the last Israeli being removed from the land. Your plan seems to me to be one where they go back to those situations and just bury their dead without defending themselves - and all for the sake of public opinion that will not change in their favor anyway. That's not being blindly pro Israel - that's just looking at the reality of the situation. I think they should reign in their settler movement and reduce the number of housing tenders if they intend to make peace. But in truth I think it will only end when they assert total control over the area. If the Tamar gas fields are as extensive as some claim then they may soon have the ability to be independent of US or any other aid. If that comes to fruition then they may very well stop being pushed by Oby and his ilk. Hillary will probably be next on the throne here and she will not improve relations with them.

[Orcseeker]

Do you recall why the blockade began initially? Or why the wall was built? The intifada bombings were killing citizens of all ages in buses and shops - even in a Seder meal. The rockets and mortars from Gaza began within weeks of the last Israeli being removed from the land. Your plan seems to me to be one where they go back to those situations and just bury their dead without defending themselves - and all for the sake of public opinion that will not change in their favor anyway. That's not being blindly pro Israel - that's just looking at the reality of the situation. I think they should reign in their settler movement and reduce the number of housing tenders if they intend to make peace. But in truth I think it will only end when they assert total control over the area. If the Tamar gas fields are as extensive as some claim then they may soon have the ability to be independent of US or any other aid. If that comes to fruition then they may very well stop being pushed by Oby and his ilk. Hillary will probably be next on the throne here and she will not improve relations with them.

And for every rocket there is in reply a hundred more. I wonder how that is going for those steadfast aggressors against their highly advanced military foes.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Your plan seems to me to be one where they go back to those situations and just bury their dead without defending themselves

No, my plan is to kill the rabid dog that attacks you WITHOUT PROVOKING IT FURTHER.

If Israel plays by all the rules set down by the UN etc, and then is attacked BY LAW it has the right to reply in kind and in force and BY LAW the UN has to support it. Israel wins, it forces the people who hate it to defend it.

[+and-then]

No, my plan is to kill the rabid dog that attacks you WITHOUT PROVOKING IT FURTHER.

If Israel plays by all the rules set down by the UN etc, and then is attacked BY LAW it has the right to reply in kind and in force and BY LAW the UN has to support it. Israel wins, it forces the people who hate it to defend it.

What do you call the Gaza withdrawal? And if Israel abided by every mandate the UN issue then it would be gone in days...not weeks... OR there would be a massive, if brief, conflagration while they destroyed the vultures waiting to attack them. Surely you don't actually believe the Palestinians are going to accept anything less than all the land? They say it openly ALL THE TIME. What is it about their rhetoric which you don't believe or understand? Edited August 20, 2013 by and then

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Off the top of my head, the only mandate placed in Israel by the UN was "lift the blockade or face sanctions" and "stop building settlements in other nations in order to appropriate land".

Both of those, incidentally, are mandates placed on everyone. As we both agree Israel faces an enemy in Palestine, we just disagree why they're the enemy and what Israel should do about them - I say stop giving them an excuse to attack you and then hide behind the "we're being bullied" defense.

[+and-then]

Off the top of my head, the only mandate placed in Israel by the UN was "lift the blockade or face sanctions" and "stop building settlements in other nations in order to appropriate land".

Both of those, incidentally, are mandates placed on everyone. As we both agree Israel faces an enemy in Palestine, we just disagree why they're the enemy and what Israel should do about them - I say stop giving them an excuse to attack you and then hide behind the "we're being bullied" defense.

Okay... then lets just wait a bit and when this next peace agreement is reached - and I think a version WILL be - we can watch what happens. I will bet an organ I need...that the violence begins again in less than a year AND that it is precipitated by the actions of the Palis.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Okay... then lets just wait a bit and when this next peace agreement is reached - and I think a version WILL be - we can watch what happens. I will bet an organ I need...that the violence begins again in less than a year AND that it is precipitated by the actions of the Palis.

The Palestinians will be the ones who are violent first I agree.

And I hope you're right that they're the ones who start it too, because neither of us want to see Israel as the 'villain'.

[Zaphod222]

The Palestinians will be the ones who are violent first I agree.

And I hope you're right that they're the ones who start it too, because neither of us want to see Israel as the 'villain'.

If by "Palestinians" you mean muslim Arabs, then yes. Note then plenty of the so-called "Palestinians" are muslim Arab immigrant who come from outside the area of Palestine.

And Israel seen as a villain? You can bet that the Western media who have swallowed the muslim antisemitic propaganda hook line and sinker, will see to that. No matter what.

[Black Red Devil]

Off the top of my head, the only mandate placed in Israel by the UN was "lift the blockade or face sanctions" and "stop building settlements in other nations in order to appropriate land".

Both of those, incidentally, are mandates placed on everyone. As we both agree Israel faces an enemy in Palestine, we just disagree why they're the enemy and what Israel should do about them - I say stop giving them an excuse to attack you and then hide behind the "we're being bullied" defense.

The problem the Israelis have with your type of rationality is that it conflicts with Zionist theology.

[+and-then]

The problem the Israelis have with your type of rationality is that it conflicts with Zionist theology.

You are absolutely correct that some in Israel are virulently opposed to any agreement that surrenders one inch of territory. But there are a very large number - a majority, who want peace bad enough to try yet again. And I predict that when this deal gets done, Israelis will yet again be attacked by Palestinians and the world will YET AGAIN blame Israel for it. I hope Obama gets hemorrhoids when it happens!

[Black Red Devil]

You are absolutely correct that some in Israel are virulently opposed to any agreement that surrenders one inch of territory. But there are a very large number - a majority, who want peace bad enough to try yet again. And I predict that when this deal gets done, Israelis will yet again be attacked by Palestinians and the world will YET AGAIN blame Israel for it. I hope Obama gets hemorrhoids when it happens!

Not some. Many. You can comfortably attribute Zionism as a Nationalist far Right doctrine. Well guess who has been winning the election polls in Israel lately? In the last elections Netanyahu's Likud party (right wing)was even prepared to joint venture with Liebermann, an ultra right-wing nationalist who's party agenda, which he created, is all about jewish expansionism. Passersby once heard him shouting "death to all arabs".

In truth, the Likud party's charter isn't any better,

• The 1999 Likud charter emphasizes the right of settlement.
  

"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."^[16]

Similarly, they claim the Jordan River as the permanent eastern border to Israel and it also claims Jerusalem as belonging to Israel.

• The 'Peace & Security' chapter of the 1999 Likud Party platform rejects a Palestinian state.
  

"The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel’s existence, security and national needs."^[16]

Link

Analysing the above, do you still believe the majority of Israeli's want peace?

[+and-then]

Not some. Many. You can comfortably attribute Zionism as a Nationalist far Right doctrine. Well guess who has been winning the election polls in Israel lately? In the last elections Netanyahu's Likud party (right wing)was even prepared to joint venture with Liebermann, an ultra right-wing nationalist who's party agenda, which he created, is all about jewish expansionism. Passersby once heard him shouting "death to all arabs".

In truth, the Likud party's charter isn't any better,

• The 1999 Likud charter emphasizes the right of settlement.
  

"The Jewish communities in Judea, Samaria and Gaza are the realization of Zionist values. Settlement of the land is a clear expression of the unassailable right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel and constitutes an important asset in the defense of the vital interests of the State of Israel. The Likud will continue to strengthen and develop these communities and will prevent their uprooting."^[16]

Similarly, they claim the Jordan River as the permanent eastern border to Israel and it also claims Jerusalem as belonging to Israel.

• The 'Peace & Security' chapter of the 1999 Likud Party platform rejects a Palestinian state.
  

"The Government of Israel flatly rejects the establishment of a Palestinian Arab state west of the Jordan river. The Palestinians can run their lives freely in the framework of self-rule, but not as an independent and sovereign state. Thus, for example, in matters of foreign affairs, security, immigration and ecology, their activity shall be limited in accordance with imperatives of Israel’s existence, security and national needs."^[16]

Link

Analysing the above, do you still believe the majority of Israeli's want peace?

Let's see.... 6 million against more than 100 million... yeah...I think they'd prefer peace. Anything else is just irrational don't you think? And do you know what? They have a far superior (in every respect) military than any of their neighbors. If they really wanted to seize land and be warlike they COULD. They could literally END the militaries of Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and even Egypt. I wonder why they don't? Maybe because all they want is just the land they now possess? Land that they feel is theirs by right? When Israel finally is pushed into a war by the Palestinians or some rebel group in Syria or Egypt they are going to expand their borders yet again. All the hell raising and complaining in the world isn't going to matter to them then. And it could all be avoided if people would just behave rationally...but no, Israel MUST be stopped. THEY have no right to do the same kinds of things so many other nations in the 20 th century did with abandon. A very large chunk of the planet is eventually going to be a smoking ruin but Israel is still going to be on that land.