The Paranormal is it Fake?

[Big Bad Voodoo]

You do realize that the views of today's 'fringe' was for many tribes and people around the world the predominant thinking for a long time? You had your time, your time was an age where people did rain dances to try and bring rain, and thought that gods were responsible for volcanoes and natural disasters. At the extreme end was human sacrifice to appease those spirits/gods. Average lifespan was very short, disease was rampant. That was your time. This is the age of science. Be that as it may.

Anyway, whats your opinion on Hyperthymestics and Magnetics?

Or perhaps Benedetto Supino? Two people sharing same dream?

Or prophets?

Errr....suddenly conversation cools.

[Leonardo]

I am not going to agree or disagree. from a scientific point of view, Stanislov Grof recorded and documented amazing commonalities in the hallucinogenic experience...more than I can ever explain here...which leads to a rather simple question...is this commonality a reality? If everyone that is tripping out is basically experiencing the same thing...what does that say about the fabric of reality?

The answer to that question, or those questions, is "Not a lot."

Studies such as those done by Grof, are limited and thus conclusions based on them are invariably flawed (unless a lucky guess is made.) The commonality of experience may in fact be down to a commonality of brain structure, and basic psychology. While people may differ culturally, the basic psychology remains the same. Therefore drawing a conclusion that a common experience under hallucinogenics shared by various peoples of different cultures indicates some 'deeper reality' that can only be experienced while under the effect of drugs, is fraught with uncertainty.

In fact, Occam's Razor suggests that we should all have similar experiences in altered states of consciousness, unless we are mentally disturbed or have some other condition which would mark us out as psychologically and physiologically distinct from the rest of humanity.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Einsteinium in Catal Huyuk there are bones from people 60s years old. Thats "okay" ages.

[Frank Merton]

All I can say is from what I see there is a lot of strong belief here without much evidence, and most of it anecdotal and personal.

I do not doubt that the world as we "get it" through our mind's interpretation ("qualia") of incoming sensory data is entirely in our heads, not in the "real" world. The Buddha taught that, and modern neurology has confirmed it. (This is in fact the biggest outstanding objection subjectivists have with modern physicalist reductionist determinism). When we "see" green, it is not that the tree we are looking at has a quality of "greenness," but that its leaves reflect certain wavelengths that get translated in our brains and presented to our minds as green.

The thing about mind-altering drugs is that they mess this up. The days when other interpretations of this sort of thing had scientific credibility, regardless of the sincerity and conviction of those who believe in it, was over when I was in college forty years ago.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Frank,

did Buddha spoke about how false memory is easy to create? His previous lives could be false memory.

This is offtopic but Im interesting on your view. Whats your stance on Buddhists God of War?

There is no belief. Only facts.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Melo

[Frank Merton]

The story of the Buddha remembering all his past lives when he became enlightened is problematic. It is not in the earliest texts and the Buddha himself several times is reported to have commented that even if there is no future existence, the Buddha's philosophy of living (not too different from ancient Stoicism) was itself worthwhile.

Others in the tradition who became enlightened had no such experience.

I am agnostic about rebirth; it is a part of Buddhist dogma in some places as its origin in Indian subcontinent beliefs that precede both Buddhism and Hinduism. There is of course a lot of testimony of such things, but testimony of that sort is not hard to doubt.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Then why you collect Karma points?

Edited August 21, 2013 by Melo

[Frank Merton]

Then why you collect Karma points?

They aren't points except by metaphor. I think that what goes around comes around; criminals increase their chances of jail; recklessness increases the chance of accident; generosity increases the chance of return generosity. Chance also plays a role, so the system isn't infallible, but it is a reasonable view and is readily understood in my part of the world.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

They aren't points except by metaphor. I think that what goes around comes around; criminals increase their chances of jail; recklessness increases the chance of accident; generosity increases the chance of return generosity. Chance also plays a role, so the system isn't infallible, but it is a reasonable view and is readily understood in my part of the world.

Modern picking up cherry Buddhist. Thats fine. We have those gatherers among Jews, Muslims,Hinduists and Chiristhians as well.

[Frank Merton]

Modern picking up cherry Buddhist. Thats fine. We have those gatherers among Jews, Muslims,Hinduists and Chiristhians as well.

I dunno quite to make of what you just said; you may want to think about it.

A religion that fails to take into account historical and scientific discoveries violates the foundation ideas of Buddhism.

[White Crane Feather]

Entheogens are not just hallucinogens. Most properly prepared medicines induce a profound state of self reflection . The "striping away". That's not to say that people should use them for just recreation or experimentation. There are dangers and they are illegal in most places for very good reasons. Only a real shaman that understands how altered states of consciousness behave can properly guide Somone in its use. Just like a doctor can and should be the only ones able to prescribe controlled substances. Entheogen's are only for turning points and last measures, they should not be taken lightly. Astral experiences can be obtained without the use of entheogenic medicine.

Edited August 22, 2013 by White Crane Feather

[fullywired]

[Einsteinium]

Anyway, whats your opinion on Hyperthymestics and Magnetics?

Or perhaps Benedetto Supino? Two people sharing same dream?

Or prophets?

Errr....suddenly conversation cools.

I think that Hyperthymestics has everything to do with the brain and that there is not need to evoke the paranormal to explain it. The brain can store amazingly vast amounts of information. People with Hyperthymesia say it is a burden and difficult to live with. I think that the brain normally filters out information that is not important to survival and remembers things selectively but people with that condition seem to have a brain that does not do this leading to problems- and amazing memory recall ability. What exactly does magnetics have to do with anything?

Benedetto Supino- the girl born with legs fused together? How exactly is that paranormal in any way?

Two people sharing the same dream? What exactly do you mean? Like two people who have the same dream at the same time and figure that out later, or?

Prophets- I think that the people claiming to be prophets are whack-jobs to be honest. The prophets of ancient times were probably whack-jobs too, but people back then were even more gullible than they are now and uneducated. They believed all kinds of crazy things.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

I think that Hyperthymestics has everything to do with the brain and that there is not need to evoke the paranormal to explain it. The brain can store amazingly vast amounts of information. People with Hyperthymesia say it is a burden and difficult to live with. I think that the brain normally filters out information that is not important to survival and remembers things selectively but people with that condition seem to have a brain that does not do this leading to problems- and amazing memory recall ability. What exactly does magnetics have to do with anything?

Benedetto Supino- the girl born with legs fused together? How exactly is that paranormal in any way?

Two people sharing the same dream? What exactly do you mean? Like two people who have the same dream at the same time and figure that out later, or?

Prophets- I think that the people claiming to be prophets are whack-jobs to be honest. The prophets of ancient times were probably whack-jobs too, but people back then were even more gullible than they are now and uneducated. They believed all kinds of crazy things.

I didnt study Benedetto Supino in detail. Its boy from Italiy who can burn things on thought.

About dreams yes thats what I ment.

Hyperthymestics are extraordinary persons. And I dont like term paranormal either. But its not normal conditions. Yes they suffer. But as in life-every sign of potence is sign of other impotence.

Hows not magnetics fit into this story. If man is living magnet?

And I think history show us that prophets existed. You can deny it or ignore it but thats not gonna deleted their existence.

Also what about extraordinary healings?

Big Bad Voodoo

Edited August 22, 2013 by Big Bad Voodoo

[spacecowboy342]

Let's keep the thread simple, show me proof the Paranormal doesn't exist. Use verifiable sources, and if you're not an actual doctor don't make diagnostic theories you are not qualified to make.

The point is not that I have proof the paranormal does not exist but that I have seen no objective evidence that it does, hence I am skeptical. It is possible that it does exist but absent evidence why should I think so?

[Big Bad Voodoo]

So after I proove my point I would now cement it.

Deja Vu,Out of body expirience, Neard Death Expiriences, Power of love, Genius kids that knows different languages at age of two or play like Mozart at age of 7 or two year boy with IQ same as Einstein, Dream about your VERY early childhood, Telepathy, Dream become reality, Ouija sessions with strange outcomes (?), numerology (?), Psychic spies (?), Psychic detectives, Miracles, Healing sounds, Hypnosis, Lucid dreaming, Astral projections etc.etc. > Science

(?)-Not vertifed.

…'“sixth sense'' ….„third eye“…. „guts“…. „dairokkan“….I dont believe that whole world trough centuries have lied to us.

Big Bad Voodoo

Edited August 23, 2013 by Big Bad Voodoo

[Big Bad Voodoo]

http://www.unexplain...howtopic=253326

http://www.unexplain...owtopic=253314

http://www.unexplain...howtopic=253331

Big Bad Voodoo

Edited August 23, 2013 by Big Bad Voodoo

[Einsteinium]

I didnt study Benedetto Supino in detail. Its boy from Italiy who can burn things on thought.

About dreams yes thats what I ment.

Hyperthymestics are extraordinary persons. And I dont like term paranormal either. But its not normal conditions. Yes they suffer. But as in life-every sign of potence is sign of other impotence.

Hows not magnetics fit into this story. If man is living magnet?

And I think history show us that prophets existed. You can deny it or ignore it but thats not gonna deleted their existence.

Also what about extraordinary healings?

Big Bad Voodoo

There are multiple offers of multi-million dollar sums from multiple different organizations around the world that this Benedetto Supino could take advantage of. If he could prove his ability. But he won't. Why won't he? He could advance science forward and have his name remembered for all of history. Leaving a legacy as one of the greats of history, but he won't. Why won't he? Probably because he does not truly have the ability. Many people have claimed this ability, many people claim all kinds of abilities. Just because they claim it does not make it true.

The magnet man is a fraud, James Randi actually did a great job exposing this fraud. He was sticky, talcum powder eliminated his 'magnetic' ability and if he was truly magnetic that would not have been the case.

I do not know much about shared dreams but I think that the topic is interesting. I have never experienced this phenomena.

History shows us that prophets are real? Which ones are real and which ones were frauds?

Extraordinary healings are truly amazing phenomena and just go to show us how much more we still have to learn about the human body and mind. There are many examples of extraordinary healing taking place and that has been very well documented medically. I find this topic absolutely fascinating. Nature is truly spectacular. However there are many more examples of sudden unexplained death or horrible illness which I also find fascinating, but the healing side of the unexplained medical phenomena is much more positive to ponder

[scowl]

There have been cases where people claimed to have been paranormally cured of cancer. Investigations showed that they people had not actually been diagnosed with cancer. One woman said that her radiologist said it looked like cancer on her x-rays however you can't make that diagnosis from just an x-ray.

I know of a young woman athlete who was diagnosed with brain cancer. Fortunately they found the cancer early. Also she was otherwise young and healthy and had no serious symptoms so she had a good chance of beating the cancer with intense chemotherapy. She started the chemotherapy but her hair fell out and she didn't like feeling sick all the time. So... she found some quack in Mexico who claimed he could cure her cancer using paranormal methods that naturally had no side effects. Since he was a fraud, the cancer quickly spread after she stopped chemo. She died on a plane flying back to the U.S. for conventional medical treatment.

This is one case where belief in the paranormal was fatal.

[Einsteinium]

There have been cases where people claimed to have been paranormally cured of cancer. Investigations showed that they people had not actually been diagnosed with cancer. One woman said that her radiologist said it looked like cancer on her x-rays however you can't make that diagnosis from just an x-ray.

I know of a young woman athlete who was diagnosed with brain cancer. Fortunately they found the cancer early. Also she was otherwise young and healthy and had no serious symptoms so she had a good chance of beating the cancer with intense chemotherapy. She started the chemotherapy but her hair fell out and she didn't like feeling sick all the time. So... she found some quack in Mexico who claimed he could cure her cancer using paranormal methods that naturally had no side effects. Since he was a fraud, the cancer quickly spread after she stopped chemo. She died on a plane flying back to the U.S. for conventional medical treatment.

This is one case where belief in the paranormal was fatal.

Wow that is a very sad story you hear in the news every so often of about a family who had a sick child who decided to use 'faith healing' instead of real medicine. Often proving fatal, and the parents are charged with crimes (as they should be)

[White Crane Feather]

There are multiple offers of multi-million dollar sums from multiple different organizations around the world that this Benedetto Supino could take advantage of. If he could prove his ability. But he won't. Why won't he? He could advance science forward and have his name remembered for all of history. Leaving a legacy as one of the greats of history, but he won't. Why won't he? Probably because he does not truly have the ability. Many people have claimed this ability, many people claim all kinds of abilities. Just because they claim it does not make it true.

The magnet man is a fraud, James Randi actually did a great job exposing this fraud. He was sticky, talcum powder eliminated his 'magnetic' ability and if he was truly magnetic that would not have been the case.

Randi will not publically meet with Mirislaw Magola.

[Einsteinium]

Randi will not publically meet with Mirislaw Magola.

[media=]

[/media]

Yeah he will not meet with Magola becaue Magola wants Randi to travel TO HIM. Hell, all Magola has to do is travel to Randi and prove his ability and a cool million bucks will be his. That would sure motivate me to travel! Magicians can do things like this and it does not require one to be magnetic just requires one to know the tricks of the trade.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

There are multiple offers of multi-million dollar sums from multiple different organizations around the world that this Benedetto Supino could take advantage of. If he could prove his ability. But he won't. Why won't he? He could advance science forward and have his name remembered for all of history. Leaving a legacy as one of the greats of history, but he won't. Why won't he? Probably because he does not truly have the ability. Many people have claimed this ability, many people claim all kinds of abilities. Just because they claim it does not make it true.

The magnet man is a fraud, James Randi actually did a great job exposing this fraud. He was sticky, talcum powder eliminated his 'magnetic' ability and if he was truly magnetic that would not have been the case.

I do not know much about shared dreams but I think that the topic is interesting. I have never experienced this phenomena.

History shows us that prophets are real? Which ones are real and which ones were frauds?

Extraordinary healings are truly amazing phenomena and just go to show us how much more we still have to learn about the human body and mind. There are many examples of extraordinary healing taking place and that has been very well documented medically. I find this topic absolutely fascinating. Nature is truly spectacular. However there are many more examples of sudden unexplained death or horrible illness which I also find fascinating, but the healing side of the unexplained medical phenomena is much more positive to ponder

Post 788 and 789 are also interesting. Yes healings are amazing.

We have several prophets in history.

Anaximander of Miletus could predict Earthquakes. His pupil Pythagoras too. Then Tecumseh.

Tecumseh was a Shawnee leader, warrior and prophet who travelled around the central United States trying to convince Native Americans to resist attempts by American settlers to encroach on their land. According to legend he gave a speech at Tuckabatchee, a Creek settlement in Alabama, in which he predicted a great earthquake would hit the area soon.

"You do not believe the Great Spirit has sent me. You shall know. I leave Tuckabatchee directly, and shall go straight to Detroit. When I arrive there, I will stamp on the ground with my foot and shake down every house in Tuckabatchee."

The prophecy came true, and on Dec. 16, 1811 a massive quake centered in New Madrid Missouri rocked the United States, with damage occurring throughout the young country

About Magnetic.

A seven-year-old boy Bogdan in Serbia is attracting worldwide attention after his family claim he is magnetic.

To prove their claim, the family paraded the boy in front of an camera crew, with a variety of objects stuck to his chest.

And dreams are my favourite study. We have many mysteries in it.

Sadly we can proof two people having same dream but we can study brain and psyche of Lucid dreamers.

I could post many interesting cases but as you can see all sceptics left the building.

When they can deny it they ignore it. And I kindly invite them on polite conversation. But I doubt they will show up.

Here is one more case.

Two weeks without water

Indian holy man Prahlad Jani speaks at a press conference at a hospital in Ahmedbad on May 6. Jani, who says he has spent seven decades without food or water, has astounded a team of military doctors who studied him during a two-week observation period.

An 83-year-old Indian holy man who says he has spent seven decades without food or water has astounded a team of military doctors who studied him during a two-week observation period.

Prahlad Jani spent a fortnight in a hospital in the western India state of Gujarat under constant surveillance from a team of 30 medics equipped with cameras and closed circuit television.

During the period, he neither ate nor drank and did not go to the toilet.

"We still do not know how he survives," neurologist Sudhir Shah told reporters after the end of the experiment. "It is still a mystery what kind of phenomenon this is."

The long-haired and bearded yogi was sealed in a hospital in the city of Ahmedabad in a study initiated by India's Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO), the state defence and military research institute.

The DRDO hopes that the findings, set to be released in greater detail in several months, could help soldiers survive without food and drink, assist astronauts or even save the lives of people trapped in natural disasters.

"(Jani's) only contact with any kind of fluid was during gargling and bathing periodically during the period," G. Ilavazahagan, director of India's Defence Institute of Physiology and Allied Sciences (DIPAS), said in a statement.

Jani has since returned to his village near Ambaji in northern Gujarat where he will resume his routine of yoga and meditation. He says that he was blessed by a goddess at a young age, which gave him special powers.

During the 15-day observation, which ended on Thursday, the doctors took scans of Jani's organs, brain, and blood vessels, as well as doing tests on his heart, lungs and memory capacity.

"The reports were all in the pre-determined safety range through the observation period," Shah told reporters at a press conference last week.

Other results from DNA analysis, molecular biological studies and tests on his hormones, enzymes, energy metabolism and genes will take months to come through.

"If Jani does not derive energy from food and water, he must be doing that from energy sources around him, sunlight being one," said Shah.

"As medical practitioners we cannot shut our eyes to possibilities, to a source of energy other than calories."

Big Bad Voodoo

Edited August 23, 2013 by Big Bad Voodoo

[White Crane Feather]

Yeah he will not meet with Magola becaue Magola wants Randi to travel TO HIM. Hell, all Magola has to do is travel to Randi and prove his ability and a cool million bucks will be his. That would sure motivate me to travel! Magicians can do things like this and it does not require one to be magnetic just requires one to know the tricks of the trade.

Magola has been tested in front of cameras while hook up to machines monitored by reputable scientists. Readings show large changes in his physiology. Unless its all a big lie orchestrated by the television show, it would seem he is doing more than parlor tricks. Just because magicians can replicate something with trickery does not invalidate Someone who may be doing it without.... It's an asinine assumption. Any thing can be replicated. I have looked for anything debunking magola other than the assumptions of randi, so far nothing. What I read is that magola is perfectly willing to be tested by randi even to the point of responding to randis assumption with video, but randi will not meet with him. It's not that magola will not come to him it's that randi will not meet him in public. Randi will not let the test be public. But who knows. If I had an ability I certainly would not perform it for a skeptical magician in private who stands to loose a million bucks. Magola was featured on Stan lees super humans and his abilities were tested.

I'm open to debunking information, but no one has any. If he cannot be debunked, scientific instruments show he actually undergoes biological changes, and a master magician that tests these things throws up smoke screens ( ) and insults and won't meet with him, then I am only left with the evidence available. Why doesn't randi simply put the matter to rest?

Edited August 23, 2013 by White Crane Feather

[Leonardo]

Randi will not publically meet with Mirislaw Magola.

The video you posted of Magola does not show him exhibiting any kind of magnetic property, or "thought power" (except clever thinking in how to fool the gullible.) He was using suction to lift the bowl. The clue is in how he placed his palm, slightly cupped, on the base of the bowl then pressed down (slowly, so as not to blow any talc into the air and give his trick away) and waited for a short while before lifting.