Crop Circles just one sign of Revelation

[Quaentum]

The bearing from the Great Pyramid forms one alignment highlighting 2 Revelation sites - 339.61 degrees from the GP

The bearing from Temple Farm in Wiltshire forms the other alignment highlighting 5 Revelation sites - 110 degrees from TF

Due to the age of sites involved in the Holy Land and elsewhere the age of the proposed landscape design would be at least about 3000 BCE and could be much older.

These sites seem to have been sacred locations dedicated to deities of the people at that time and in later times.

If the proposed landscape geometry is correct these sacred sites with geometric connections were set out by an 'intelligence' with abilities that do not tie in with our present understanding of people at that time and with an intimate knowledge of our planet Earth.

If correct this ancient geometry is evidence of an 'outside' influence on our world from very early times or an advanced early culture.

Taking an example like Ephesus it was clearly considered a sacred or holy location from very early times, the Bronze Age maybe, why was this particular location originally chosen as a sacred spot and linked to the worship of Gods and the Goddess ?

The sacred site at Ephesus, actually Selcuk close by, is exactly on a whole degree bearing line from Temple Farm in this case 112 degrees, a bearing line which then goes to the Holy Land and also highlights other ancient locations believed to be sacred from early times including Mamre with its links to the biblical stories about Abraham.

Much later it is chosen by the source of the Book of Revelations to be the first of the 7 locations selected for messages at the start of the book, the message to Ephesus included....

'....I know all your ways.......you have lost your early love. Think from what a height you have fallen; repent, and do as you once did.........'

As proposed in previous posts it is the 110 degree bearing line from Temple Farm which highlights the last 5 churches of the 7 churches of Revelation before going to the north of the Holy Land at the Sea of Galilee, Magdala and other ancient sites.

The second alignment from the Great Pyramid to Ephesus ( Selcuk ) 339.61 degrees goes north passing the second named church of Revelations, Smyrna, and in north west Turkey passes just to the east of the site of Ancient Troy (approx 1.9 miles).

In this area it crosses the first alignment, 110 degrees from Temple Farm, at a very significant position which was found to be

39 degrees, 39 minutes, 39 seconds, north of the equator

26 degrees, 26 minutes, 26 seconds, east of Greenwich (within .01 of a bearing degree)

Some people might say this is all just a set of coincidences but others may come to the conclusion that it is part of a very ancient design of the landscape geometry of 'sacred' sites set out thousands of years BCE but with the Book of Revelations to guide us to it's existence.

As this proposed design has now been found it is reasonable to ask if this is a special moment in time for which the Book of Revelations was intended and it is worth remembering that the book tells us that there is a 'secret meaning' in the 7 church locations mentioned.

Your comment about the cultural differences between the locations is fair but it would appear that the setting out of these 'sacred' or 'holy' sites may predate the time when these cultures arose.

Even if your hypothesis were correct (and you have yet to show sufficient evidence to move your hypothesis to the level of a theory with more evidence required to make it a fact) you have yet to show evidence that links any of those sites to an external intelligence. Are you claiming that God is that intelligence? If so how do you maintain that assertion considering that the Egyptians did not believe in the Christian God when building their pyramids?

One must wonder about the use of the Book of Revelation considering the very first sentence reads "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place;" Is the soon to be considered human soon or God soon? If human soon the time is long past for that. If God soon and considering that 2 Peter we find "one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day" so we would be in day 3 of Gods time and soon might not be until as much as a week of his time has passed pushing revelation out another 5000 years.

The prime meridian 0 deg longitude was selected in the early 1850's due to it's popularity. Any longitudinal results that you feel support your hypothesis are solely based on that modern choice, a location the ancients would have known nothing about when constructing their works.

[Quaentum]

Just to hopefully clarify the situation

The proposed landscape geometry is a fact, it exists in locations and bearings as detailed on previous post but...

you might wish to believe that it could be the most amazing set of strange coincidences you could hope to imagine... that is your choice and you have every right to do so.

Now I personally don't like masses of coincidences if there is possible explanation, however strange that explanation might be; particularly when these coincidences seem to relate to the last book of the bible and locations and comments in this book - The Book of the Revelation of John. They also relate to ancient and biblical sites in the Holy Land and the stories about Jesus and Mary of Magdala.

So the idea that these 'coincidences' are not just coincidences but a design set out thousands of years ago seems to me a valid proposal to explain what has now been found.

Because this design is based on very ancient sacred sites which would have to have been originally positioned to conform to the geometry, it would have to be old, very old as experts at some of these sites have dated their origins to many thousands of years BCE and there is no way we know at present how people at that time could have set it out.

You mention an 'outside agency' as a possible source for this geometric design but it is possible that it was created by an early advanced group on Earth, however because we know that some of these early sites where spiritual centers they were clearly linked to Gods and Goddesses whether home grown of from elsewhere.

You call the design a possible 'puzzle' and it certainly is a very strange creation but it would be reasonable to suggest that if the geometry is a puzzle whoever or whatever created it intended that at some future date it would be found or solved.

You say that if an 'outside agency' created this design why would they bother to do it ?

There is a simple answer to that question....

I don't know....

The proposed geometry starts out as a hypothesis. A certain quantity of independently verifiable evidence must be shown and verified before the hypothesis becomes a theory. Even more independently verifiable evidence must then be presented and verified before a theory becomes a fact. This is why, even with all the evidence available, Evolution remains as a theory in the science books. The question is has any of the supposed geometry been independently verified? Not just agreed to by someone who believes it to be correct but by someone who has the knowledge to check the work? If yes please post who verified the work. If no then we don't have a fact but continue to have a hypothesis.

[laver]

Ok these advanced peeps thousands of years ago decided to create a pattern using the landscape for whatever reason and set about laying the foundations for these sites in set geometries - there are enough amazing ruins on earth to almost believe it.

How, though would they know a couple of thousand years later some bloke called Jesus would irritate the Romans enough to get hisself crucified and that people of the time would care enough to start a brand spanking (if slightly nicked from earlier traditions) religion, that would be persecuted and lead to John hiding on the isle of Patmos and writing down a vision he had?

See my problem? Humans thousands of years ago being more advanced than our current history teaches I have no problem with. Them being able to see and influence, on a very personal level, future events and people that is a bit harder to accept.

You make some good points

Here are a few suggestions

1. The 'advanced peeps' could see into the future. May sound silly but it is a possibility. They were smart enough to set out the geometry over thousands of miles, and the geometry given on this thread so far is only part of the story, but relates to the questions raised by the Book of Revelations and whether this is a time of Revelation ?

We are told noone knows the time of Revelation, when it will be. That would depend on when the ancient design was found but maybe 'advanced peeps' knew that at some time it would be ?

2. The ancient design was a 'message in a bottle' laid out on the landscape by 'peeps' who were much advanced to others around them but might have realised that their knowledge and beliefs would get lost in the future and wanted to leave a message - 'we were here, and we have left you message for when you catch up'.

3. The geometric design was laid out by an 'outside agency' . If this were the case the motive is hard to assess.

4. Your second paragraph says -

'How, though would they know a couple of thousand years later some bloke called Jesus would irritate the Romans enough to get hisself crucified and that people of the time would care enough to start a brand spanking (if slightly nicked from earlier traditions) religion, that would be persecuted and lead to John hiding on the isle of Patmos and writing down a vision he had?

Humm, Firstly it does not sound as if Jesus annoyed the Romans too much, hardly any records of him there; the people that Jesus annoyed would seem to have been the then establishment in Jerusalem. It is obvious that his teachings, only some of which may be accurately recorded, did not go down well in Jerusalem. But as you say people cared enough about what he was saying to start a branch of the old religion which became Christianity. Whether the 'John' of the book of Revelations was 'hiding' on Patmos as you say is very debateable. The Island of Patmos is a geometric location linked to the rest of the geometric design but a bit complicated to explain on this thread.

But your real point is how could the creators of the ancient landscape geometry know that thousands of years later circumstances would arise leading to Jesus and the Book of Revelations with its geometric clues ?

That would depend on whether Jesus knew about the ancient landscape geometry and how he knew about it ?

We are getting into rather deep water now... if Jesus is, who many people believe him to be, divine, then of course he knew about the ancient landscape geometry and it's clues in the Book of Revelations because he wrote it and got 'John' to write it down as a message to be discovered in the future.

On the other hand, for those who might not be sure if Jesus was divine, was there a way he could have been told about the ancient design ?

This might come from Egypt because accounts tell us he went there and returned with knowledge that greatly surprised the elders of the Temple in Jerusalem.

If this knowledge included any details of ancient sacred sites in the Holy Land that predated the time of the patriarch of the elders, Abraham, by thousands of years it might have caused some problems for Jesus. If he and Mary of Magdala were then highlighting some of these ancient sacred locations, which Jesus and Mary seem to have done, the Jerusalem establishment would try to remove him, which they apparently did. But Jesus seemed to have been aware of the risks yet walked into the lion's den.

So I do see your problem and you can take your pick from any of the suggestions given above or dismiss them as nonsense but don't forget that the geometry exists out there on the landscape as apparently it has done for thousands of years waiting to be found and as it is now coming to light we should maybe ask if this is a time of Revelation ?

[Quaentum]

You make some good points

Here are a few suggestions

1. The 'advanced peeps' could see into the future. May sound silly but it is a possibility. They were smart enough to set out the geometry over thousands of miles, and the geometry given on this thread so far is only part of the story, but relates to the questions raised by the Book of Revelations and whether this is a time of Revelation ?

We are told noone knows the time of Revelation, when it will be. That would depend on when the ancient design was found but maybe 'advanced peeps' knew that at some time it would be ?

2. The ancient design was a 'message in a bottle' laid out on the landscape by 'peeps' who were much advanced to others around them but might have realised that their knowledge and beliefs would get lost in the future and wanted to leave a message - 'we were here, and we have left you message for when you catch up'.

3. The geometric design was laid out by an 'outside agency' . If this were the case the motive is hard to assess.

4. Your second paragraph says -

'How, though would they know a couple of thousand years later some bloke called Jesus would irritate the Romans enough to get hisself crucified and that people of the time would care enough to start a brand spanking (if slightly nicked from earlier traditions) religion, that would be persecuted and lead to John hiding on the isle of Patmos and writing down a vision he had?

Humm, Firstly it does not sound as if Jesus annoyed the Romans too much, hardly any records of him there; the people that Jesus annoyed would seem to have been the then establishment in Jerusalem. It is obvious that his teachings, only some of which may be accurately recorded, did not go down well in Jerusalem. But as you say people cared enough about what he was saying to start a branch of the old religion which became Christianity. Whether the 'John' of the book of Revelations was 'hiding' on Patmos as you say is very debateable. The Island of Patmos is a geometric location linked to the rest of the geometric design but a bit complicated to explain on this thread.

But your real point is how could the creators of the ancient landscape geometry know that thousands of years later circumstances would arise leading to Jesus and the Book of Revelations with its geometric clues ?

That would depend on whether Jesus knew about the ancient landscape geometry and how he knew about it ?

We are getting into rather deep water now... if Jesus is, who many people believe him to be, divine, then of course he knew about the ancient landscape geometry and it's clues in the Book of Revelations because he wrote it and got 'John' to write it down as a message to be discovered in the future.

On the other hand, for those who might not be sure if Jesus was divine, was there a way he could have been told about the ancient design ?

This might come from Egypt because accounts tell us he went there and returned with knowledge that greatly surprised the elders of the Temple in Jerusalem.

If this knowledge included any details of ancient sacred sites in the Holy Land that predated the time of the patriarch of the elders, Abraham, by thousands of years it might have caused some problems for Jesus. If he and Mary of Magdala were then highlighting some of these ancient sacred locations, which Jesus and Mary seem to have done, the Jerusalem establishment would try to remove him, which they apparently did. But Jesus seemed to have been aware of the risks yet walked into the lion's den.

So I do see your problem and you can take your pick from any of the suggestions given above or dismiss them as nonsense but don't forget that the geometry exists out there on the landscape as apparently it has done for thousands of years waiting to be found and as it is now coming to light we should maybe ask if this is a time of Revelation ?

1 & 2 - This assumes that not only were there those who could see into the future from different civilizations but that they somehow knew what other sites of all of them in the world would be to ones to make up the alignment. What evidence do you have for this?

3. Unless other information comes to light, the various ancient sites were laid out according to the best location for each project.

While Matthew does indicate that Jesus was taken to Egypt, Luke indicates differently. Robert Funk of the Jesus Seminar has suggested that both accounts are fictitious.

[laver]

A note on the Greenwich Meridian

There are 2 alignments that highlight the 7 churches of the Book of Revelations as detailed in previous posts.

1. The 110 degree bearing from Temple Farm to the Holy Land at Mount Arbel and Magdala on the Sea of Galilee which highlights 5 Revelation sites

2. A bearing from the Great Pyramid in Egypt to Ephesus (Selcuk temple site) of 339.61 degrees which passes Smyrna and goes north close to Ancient Troy.

These bearing lines cross each other at a particular location which was found to be

39 degrees, 39 minutes, 39 seconds, north of the equator

26 degrees, 26 minutes, 26 seconds, east of the Greenwich Meridian (within .01 of a bearing degree)

As stated when this location was originally mentioned in a post on UM it is a very strange 'coincidence' of numbers.

The latitude north of the equator could have very ancient origins but as was pointed out in that post how could the Longitude numbers also be repetitive since the position of the Prime Meridian at Greenwich was apparently a recent choice ?

There would seem to be only two possible answers

1. The repetitive numbers in the Longitude are a pure fluke, a strange coincidence and have no significance

2. By some means the location of the Greenwich Meridian, 0 degrees east or west, was not a pure fluke but influenced by some very ancient knowledge.

The site of Greenwich had been used for various buildings for probably about a thousand years and could have had some marker on the site from ancient times but there is no known evidence of this.

[laver]

Crop circles this month to August 24th as recorded on Crop Circle Connector

Holland - 2 appearances

Britain - County of Worcestershire - 1 appearance

Britain - County of Wiltshire - 11 appearances

NB Over many years Wiltshire has been the clear center of this activity and still is

If a percentage of appearances are not man made.......why is Wiltshire a possible 'target' area ?

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

If a percentage of appearances are not man made.......why is Wiltshire a possible 'target' area ?

Isn't Wiltshire one of the proported locations of the Holy Grail?

[shrooma]

Isn't Wiltshire one of the proported locations of the Holy Grail?

.

it is Sir, yes.

Glastonbury to be more precise.

but I think that's all just a mythtake.....

;-)

[Kaa-Tzik]

Isn't Wiltshire one of the proported locations of the Holy Grail?

It's also the county were Stonehenge is. I think maybe a combination of that and Glastonbury Tor in nearby Somerset had put the idea into the minds of the two guys who claim to have started this craze off in the 70s. There were circles before then though...

Edited August 25, 2013 by Kaa-Tzik

[laver]

Isn't Wiltshire one of the proported locations of the Holy Grail?

Humm... The Holy Grail... a few books written about that idea over the centuries.

But in amongst all the myth and legend is there possibly a kernel of truth ?

For some reason the character of Mary of Magdala has been involved in the grail story for a long time and she was and is venerated in some areas, parts of France in particular. In the UK this feminine element often goes under the name of Saint Katherine or Catherine, many different spellings, a non historical saint maybe based on a female mathematician from Alexandria in Egypt.

It may be just a coincidence but the critical bearing from the proposed focal point of Temple Farm in Wiltshire, which highlights 5 Revelation churches as detailed in previous posts, leaves the last church site, Laodicea, and crosses the Med going to Mount Arbel which has next to it Magdala, now called Migdal.

This 110 degree bearing is a fact and highlights other ancient sites in the Holy Land.

It is very important in the proposed ancient landscape geometry to the Holy Land and is marked for us by Mary, Mary Magdalene.

So is the ancient landscape geometry the Holy Grail ?

Please don't take my word for the alignments mentioned in this thread. To the best of my knowledge they are correct but anyone who knows what Latitude and Longitude are can easily check them out if they so wish.

Of course there will be those who don't want the ancient geometry to exist because it raises important questions about how and why it was created and if Jesus was aware of it, which would certainly seem a very strong possibility.

NB. It might be of interest to some that the location of Temple Farm was named after the Knights Templar who apparently venerated Mary of Magdala and some stories tell us that they were guardians of the Holy Grail. Make of that what you will.

[Space Commander Travis]

.

it is Sir, yes.

Glastonbury to be more precise.

but I think that's all just a mythtake.....

;-)

that's Somerset.

And not just the grail (which is in the crystal castle under the Tor), but also, of course, where Kind Arthur hangs out awaiting the call for when his country needs him again.

Surely that must be about now?*

* Some say Cadbury castle, of course

[laver]

that's Somerset.

And not just the grail (which is in the crystal castle under the Tor), but also, of course, where Kind Arthur hangs out awaiting the call for when his country needs him again.

Surely that must be about now?*

* Some say Cadbury castle, of course

Yes wrong county but Glastonbury is an interesting location and much written about by the late author John Michell.

He saw it as a key site on a long distance alignment highlighting very ancient sites and later churches dedicated to Saint Michael which he proposed runs through southern Britain and Wiltshire; The Saint Michael's Alignment or Ley.

This rather wobbly alignment was noted by David Furlong to run in the same direction as the centers of the twin circles he found in Wiltshire and his estimate of the position of the alignment, where it goes through his landscape design, was one factor in highlighting the location known as Temple Farm.

The other factor was of course the geometric design of the Great Pyramid when superimposed on his proposed ancient landscape layout.

So the ancient sacred geometry of Britain and the Great Pyramid leads us to Temple Farm, as suggested in David Furlong's book, which leads us to the Holy Land via most of the 'churches of Asia' of the Book of Revelations - where we are met by Mary of Magdala -

The Goddess of these Sacred Isles ? The Isles of Britannia ?

and the linking of Saint Michael and Saint Katherine so often seen together depicted in our churches ?

Just an idea, but what about Kind King Arthur ?

Perhaps he had better get a move on... or he will never win the next General Election to sort out these Sacred Isles ......

Edited August 25, 2013 by laver

[Swede]

1. Suggest you read David Furlong's book 'The Keys to the Temple' or his website which sets out what he found and his interesting proposals

2. Yes crop circles are a fact and some might not be man made so the 'coincidence' that the major centre of this activity has been Wiltshire in southern Britain and this is also the location of the focal point of proposed ancient landscape geometry with links to the Book of Revelations and the Holy Land makes this connection worth mentioning.

3. The bearing lines exists and the ancient sites exist. The locations and comments in the Book of Revelations exist. People have the right to be told, so that they can make up their own minds on the factual information now available.

4. You say - 'not a single qualified theologian has, in the least, suggested your particular "association" '. That is because they were not aware of the ancient landscape geometry with its bearings to ancient sites in the Holy Land and eastern Mediterranean and the gospels / Book of Revelations all of which has only just been discovered. But in future they may like to consider it.

This thread is about factual information that other users of UM should be able to consider, but they will have to be wary of posts and posters that seek to deride the information and try to prevent them from realisically asking..... is this a time of Revelation ?

Those contributors who have chosen to suffer through your repetitious attempts at defending your fantasy are quite familiar with your primary (and specious) "points". While these "points" have, for the most part, been repeatedly addressed via the presentation of qualified research/data, you would appear to have difficulty in digesting and processing such information. Sad, really.

And it would likely be of interest to qualified theologians to learn how tragically misinformed these many astute individuals are.

In this light, let us look more closely at one of the locations mentioned in Revelations. One that you have repeatedly referred to in regards to your fantasy. Ephesus.

First, general early background:

• The earliest documentation for the presence of H.s.s. in the region (Anatolia) can be traced to ~ 40,000 BP.
  
• Amongst the earliest recorded cultures in Anatolia were the non-Indo-European speaking Hattias and Hurrians.
  
• These groups were followed by the Indo-European speaking Hittites. Following the Hittites in Anatolia were the Assyrians, Phrygians, Cimmerians, Greeks, Romans, etc.
  

Ephesus area proper:

• The earliest documented human habitation near the location of the future ancient city of Ephesus can be found at two sites that date to ~ 7,000 BP (Kraft et al 2011:28). The establishment of these Neolithic habitation sites was based upon the confluence of Cayster River (modern Kucuk Menderes River) with the Gulf of Ephesus (formed by the Holocene basin level rise intruding into the river valley). The selection of such locations as areas of habitation is well documented on a global level and was due to the obvious resource procurement advantages of a site that provides both fresh water and access to both maritime and freshwater resources, in addition to travel networks. No "cosmic significance" involved.
  
• The "ancient" city of Ephesus was founded by the Greeks and was a thriving sea-port. Due to continued sedimentation of the Cayster River delta floodplain, exacerbated by human attempts to minimize such, "ancient" Ephesus now lies some 8 km from the current coastline (Kraft et al 2011).
  
• The earliest documented religious structure associated with Greek Ephesus is the temple of Artemis (~ 800 BCE).
  

Early churches: You would appear to be under the impression that early Christian "churches" refer to a physical structure. Believe that other worthy contributors may have touched upon this issue. To elaborate:

• During the first century AD (and later), the utilization of the term "church" applied to a group of, shall we say, like-minded individuals. Meetings were held out of doors or in private homes with no fixed venue. Rather the "upper room".
  
• At a somewhat later period, certain houses became more consistent places of worship. The earliest documentation of one of these "house churches" is located in Dura Europa (Syria). This structure is dated to 233-256 AD and retains related iconography.
  
• The earliest documentation of a dedicated Christian worship structure is Megiddo (Israel), ~ 300 AD+.
  

To briefly summarize:

1. The general region of Ephesus has a long history of human presence that included numerous and diverse cultural elements.
   
2. There would appear to be no indication of Neolithic spiritual significance attributable to the Ephesus area proper.
   
3. That the Greeks built temples in thriving maritime cities is hardly of special note in regards to your fantasy. There are numerous and varied examples.
   
4. At the presumed time of the writting of Revelations, there would have been no physical Christian "church" structure in Ephesus.
   
5. As indicated by elements of the above, any attempt to associate G1 or Wiltshire with Ephesus through the means of a self-derived (and wholly unsubstantiated) "landscape geometry" is, at best, notably misguided, and, at its worst, simply delusional.
   

It should also be noted that as per your poorly veiled comments under other headings, you would appear to be implying some sort of "alien intervention". Too coy by half.

Edit: Typo.

Edited August 25, 2013 by Swede

[laver]

Those contributors who have chosen to suffer through your repetitious attempts at defending your fantasy are quite familiar with your primary (and specious) "points". While these "points" have, for the most part, been repeatedly addressed via the presentation of qualified research/data, you would appear to have difficulty in digesting and processing such information. Sad, really.

And it would likely be of interest to qualified theologians to learn how tragically misinformed these many astute individuals are.

In this light, let us look more closely at one of the locations mentioned in Revelations. One that you have repeatedly referred to in regards to your fantasy. Ephesus.

First, general early background:

• The earliest documentation for the presence of H.s.s. in the region (Anatolia) can be traced to ~ 40,000 BP.
  
• Amongst the earliest recorded cultures in Anatolia were the non-Indo-European speaking Hattias and Hurrians.
  
• These groups were followed by the Indo-European speaking Hittites. Following the Hittites in Anatolia were the Assyrians, Phrygians, Cimmerians, Greeks, Romans, etc.
  

Ephesus area proper:

• The earliest documented human habitation near the location of the future ancient city of Ephesus can be found at two sites that date to ~ 7,000 BP (Kraft et al 2011:28). The establishment of these Neolithic habitation sites was based upon the confluence of Cayster River (modern Kucuk Menderes River) with the Gulf of Ephesus (formed by the Holocene basin level rise intruding into the river valley). The selection of such locations as areas of habitation is well documented on a global level and was due to the obvious resource procurement advantages of a site that provides both fresh water and access to both maritime and freshwater resources, in addition to travel networks. No "cosmic significance" involved.
  
• The "ancient" city of Ephesus was founded by the Greeks and was a thriving sea-port. Due to continued sedimentation of the Cayster River delta floodplain, exacerbated by human attempts to minimize such, "ancient" Ephesus now lies some 8 km from the current coastline (Kraft et al 2011).
  
• The earliest documented religious structure associated with Greek Ephesus is the temple of Artemis (~ 800 BCE).
  

Early churches: You would appear to be under the impression that early Christian "churches" refer to a physical structure. Believe that other worthy contributors may have touched upon this issue. To elaborate:

• During the first century AD (and later), the utilization of the term "church" applied to a group of, shall we say, like-minded individuals. Meetings were held out of doors or in private homes with no fixed venue. Rather the "upper room".
  
• At a somewhat later period, certain houses became more consistent places of worship. The earliest documentation of one of these "house churches" is located in Dura Europa (Syria). This structure is dated to 233-256 AD and retains related iconography.
  
• The earliest documentation of a dedicated Christian worship structure is Megiddo (Israel), ~ 300 AD+.
  

To briefly summarize:

1. The general region of Ephesus has a long history of human presence that included numerous and diverse cultural elements.
   
2. There would appear to be no indication of Neolithic spiritual significance attributable to the Ephesus area proper.
   
3. That the Greeks built temples in thriving maritime cities is hardly of special note in regards to your fantasy. There are numerous and varied examples.
   
4. At the presumed time of the writting of Revelations, there would have been no physical Christian "church" structure in Ephesus.
   
5. As indicated by elements of the above, any attempt to associate G1 or Wiltshire with Ephesus through the means of a self-derived (and wholly unsubstantiated) "landscape geometry" is, at best, notably misguided, and, at its worst, simply delusional.
   

It should also be noted that as per your poorly veiled comments under other headings, you would appear to be implying some sort of "alien intervention". Too coy by half.

Edit: Typo.

It would seem that you are not seeing the wood for the trees - maybe you do not want to ?

I will post a few facts, yes facts, shortly, to summarise the topic for other UM users. You may not like the facts but please do try not to be so abusive.

[shrooma]

Swede, you're on to a wrong'n here dude.

did you notice how mr furlon..., I mean laver, dodged all your points? and then said he was gonna post some ''facts'', even after you told him he was posting the same things over & over again?

he doesn't read any of the posts on here.

that's not the point of his threads.

you contradict his statements- he spams the board with the same unconvincing ''facts'' that he's been doing for over 50 pages.

trust me, you won't get any kind of sense out of him.

but good luck anyway man.....

[shrooma]

And not just the grail (which is in the crystal castle under the Tor)

.

that'll be an old, confused folk memory of the Tor's original name- Ynis Witrin- 'the glass isle'

which contains a doorway to the underworld, the realm of the tuatha de danann.....

[laver]

Reference posts 814 and 815

When is a fact not a fact

Many people would say - when it cannot be verified

As stated before the geometric information given on this topic can be verified, quite easily, by anyone who doubts its veracity.

[Quaentum]

A note on the Greenwich Meridian

There are 2 alignments that highlight the 7 churches of the Book of Revelations as detailed in previous posts.

1. The 110 degree bearing from Temple Farm to the Holy Land at Mount Arbel and Magdala on the Sea of Galilee which highlights 5 Revelation sites

2. A bearing from the Great Pyramid in Egypt to Ephesus (Selcuk temple site) of 339.61 degrees which passes Smyrna and goes north close to Ancient Troy.

These bearing lines cross each other at a particular location which was found to be

39 degrees, 39 minutes, 39 seconds, north of the equator

26 degrees, 26 minutes, 26 seconds, east of the Greenwich Meridian (within .01 of a bearing degree)

As stated when this location was originally mentioned in a post on UM it is a very strange 'coincidence' of numbers.

The latitude north of the equator could have very ancient origins but as was pointed out in that post how could the Longitude numbers also be repetitive since the position of the Prime Meridian at Greenwich was apparently a recent choice ?

There would seem to be only two possible answers

1. The repetitive numbers in the Longitude are a pure fluke, a strange coincidence and have no significance

2. By some means the location of the Greenwich Meridian, 0 degrees east or west, was not a pure fluke but influenced by some very ancient knowledge.

The site of Greenwich had been used for various buildings for probably about a thousand years and could have had some marker on the site from ancient times but there is no known evidence of this.

#1 is the answer considering that 0 degrees longitude was chosen hundreds and thousands of years after the ancient sites were built and the builders would not have known about something that didn't exist.

[Quaentum]

Crop circles this month to August 24th as recorded on Crop Circle Connector

Holland - 2 appearances

Britain - County of Worcestershire - 1 appearance

Britain - County of Wiltshire - 11 appearances

NB Over many years Wiltshire has been the clear center of this activity and still is

If a percentage of appearances are not man made.......why is Wiltshire a possible 'target' area ?

There has yet to be any evidence that crop circles are other then man made. Many circles, including the hackpen hill circle, show clear signs they were made by humans but some ignore the evidence either claiming they were not made by humans or there is the possibility they weren't made by humans. Such willful ignorance does nothing to support the various views of non-human crop circle making but rather goes to show how desperate some are to make the crop circles look more mysterious than they are.

[Quaentum]

Reference posts 814 and 815

When is a fact not a fact

Many people would say - when it cannot be verified

As stated before the geometric information given on this topic can be verified, quite easily, by anyone who doubts its veracity.

I have noted that for you a fact is not a fact when you don't want it to be. Many have posted facts here which you either dismiss or ignore so I guess that makes them non-facts in your eyes right?

[laver]

#1 is the answer considering that 0 degrees longitude was chosen hundreds and thousands of years after the ancient sites were built and the builders would not have known about something that didn't exist.

Of course No 1 has to be the right answer....... or does it ?

2 seperate alignments highlighting the 7 churches of the Book of Revelations and other ancient sites cross at

39 degrees, 39 minutes, 39 seconds, north of the equator

26 degrees, 26 minutes, 26 seconds, east of the Greenwich Meridian (within .01 of a bearing degree)

The chances of that being just a 'coincidence' must be very very high.

These 2 alignments were arrived at based on bearings from Temple Farm in Wiltshire, southern Britain, which was found by David Furlong by using the geometry of the Great Pyramid, and a bearing from the Great Pyramid itself to Ephesus (Temple of Artemis, Sulcuk), the first named church of the Book of Revelations.

These are not just random bearing lines engineered to give an interesting position for the sake of a UM thread.

How the repetitive numbers occur in the Longitude is a real mystery and could be a fluke, but might not be; the repetitive numbers in the Latitude could have been set out thousands of years ago when the ancient sites were chosen.

It is also interesting that this crossover point is very close to the now known site of Ancient Troy which might possibly be relevant.

Ignore all this if you wish - but it is a fact, the alignments are a fact, with the Revelation sites they highlight, and the crossover point is a fact.

With this landscape geometry now coming to light it is reasonable to ask if this may be a time of Revelation ?

Edited August 26, 2013 by laver

[Quaentum]

Of course No 1 has to be the right answer....... or does it ?

2 seperate alignments highlighting the 7 churches of the Book of Revelations and other ancient sites cross at

39 degrees, 39 minutes, 39 seconds, north of the equator

26 degrees, 26 minutes, 26 seconds, east of the Greenwich Meridian (within .01 of a bearing degree)

The chances of that being just a 'coincidence' must be very very high.

These 2 alignments were arrived at based on bearings from Temple Farm in Wiltshire, southern Britain, which was found by David Furlong by using the geometry of the Great Pyramid, and a bearing from the Great Pyramid itself to Ephesus (Temple of Artemis, Sulcuk), the first named church of the Book of Revelations.

These are not just random bearing lines engineered to give an interesting position for the sake of a UM thread.

How the repetitive numbers occur in the Longitude is a real mystery and could be a fluke, but might not be; the repetitive numbers in the Latitude could have been set out thousands of years ago when the ancient sites were chosen.

It is also interesting that this crossover point is very close to the now known site of Ancient Troy which might possibly be relevant.

Ignore all this if you wish - but it is a fact, the alignments are a fact, with the Revelation sites they highlight, and the crossover point is a fact.

With this landscape geometry now coming to light it is reasonable to ask if this may be a time of Revelation ?

The longitudinal numbers are just coincidence seeing that at the time they chose Greenwich for the prime meridian, Paris was also in the running.

Prior to Ptolemy (90 CE - 168 CE) the prime meridian was not at a fixed location.

But it was Ptolemy (c. AD 90 – c. AD 168) who first used a consistent meridian for a world map in his Geographia. Ptolemy used as his basis the "Fortunate Isles", a group of islands in the Atlantic which are usually associated with the Canary Islands (13° to 18°W), although his maps correspond more closely to the Cape Verde islands (22° to 25° W).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_meridian

To be accurate, you would want to use the prime meridian most likely used when Revelation was written, not the one in use today. In using the correct prime meridian you may find the repetitive longitudinal numbers aren't there.

[laver]

The longitudinal numbers are just coincidence seeing that at the time they chose Greenwich for the prime meridian, Paris was also in the running.

Prior to Ptolemy (90 CE - 168 CE) the prime meridian was not at a fixed location.

http://en.wikipedia..../Prime_meridian

To be accurate, you would want to use the prime meridian most likely used when Revelation was written, not the one in use today. In using the correct prime meridian you may find the repetitive longitudinal numbers aren't there.

There would seem to be insufficient information to totally rule out the possibility that Greenwich was known to be a significant location from ancient times and this affected the choice of this site as Prime Meridian.

This seems unlikely but remains a possibility and this would explain the repetitive numbers 26,26,26 of the Longitude.

But the important clue is probably in the Latitude 39,39,39.

Bearing line 1, 110 degrees from Temple Farm, highlights the last 5 Revelation churches and ancient sites in the Holy Land.

Bearing line 2, 339.61 degrees from the Great Pyramid to Ephesus, the first Revelation church, goes close to Smyrna, the second Revelation church, actual position not clear, and then north to cross bearing line 1 near Ancient Troy at the 39,39,39 latitude. Bearing line 2 from the Great Pyramid marks the point on Bearing line 1 where the crossing occurs and it is at a significant Latitude which seems hardly likely to be a coincidence and much more likely included in the ancient landscape design as a confirmation of these 2 bearing lines.

From memory there was a great deal of discussion about where the Prime Meridian should be sited with the French wanting Paris or if not the Great Pyramid.

But the British were insistant on Greenwich which finally won.

3 repetitive numbers in a latitude has occured before in the landscape geometry of alignments from Temple Farm to the Holy Land at another very significant location but beyond the scope of this thread on UM to explain.

[Swede]

Swede, you're on to a wrong'n here dude.

did you notice how mr furlon..., I mean laver, dodged all your points? and then said he was gonna post some ''facts'', even after you told him he was posting the same things over & over again?

he doesn't read any of the posts on here.

that's not the point of his threads.

you contradict his statements- he spams the board with the same unconvincing ''facts'' that he's been doing for over 50 pages.

trust me, you won't get any kind of sense out of him.

but good luck anyway man.....

Greetings Schrooma.

Well understand your comments. As you will note, while my contributions to these pages are not always frequent, my experience on these pages does date back a few years. Thus, certain "types" have been previously encountered and addressed.

As has been quite apparent from near the onset of this particular topic/presentation, we are dealing with factors more akin to a study of human psychology rather than anything actually dealing with credible archaeological/historical research.

That said, it is not uncommon for new (and often youthful) readers/contributors to encounter these pages.

Much of the data and rationale previously presented by myself has been submitted with the intent of informing such potentially ill-informed readers in regards to the shallow and fallacious "facts" and "associations" currently being espoused by the originator of this topic.

Would personally find it rather disturbing if such unsubstantiated drivel was allowed to proliferate without critical evaluation supported by credible research.

.

[laver]

Factual clues that we should maybe consider when asking if this is a time of Revelation ?

Clue Number 1

The Great Pyramid in Egypt

This pyramid is a square based structure of massive proportions that experts date to around 2500 BCE

although the site selection could be much older.

It is often described as just a tomb but was built to an exact geometric shape and very accurately orientated to north and hence also possibly east as the base is square.

If you walked around the square base you would have covered the same distance as walking round a circle

whose radius, distance from the center to the circle, is the height of the pyramid. So it squares a circle.

This particular pyramid shape demonstrates basic geometric ratios Pi and Phi based on its original height

and base dimensions.

These dimensions are well established and show a height to base ratio of 7 : 11

If you take the original height of the pyramid, there is a bit missing at the top but the original height has been calculated, and divide this height by 7 and multiply the result by 11 you get the base dimension. So 7 : 11.

So if the Ancient Egyptians knew what they were building this pyramid was a massive geometric message for the future.

Some people might say that the Ancient Egyptians did not know that the pyramid they were building held these geometric messages and this could be true but the designer(s) of the pyramid must have been influencial in Egyptian society and the details of the geometry may have been kept secret and known to only a few people. But why would they have done that ?

That might depend on whether the design of the Great Pyramid was not just a demonstration of knowledge, geometric knowledge, but a key part of some greater plan or design, probably involving geometry... as we shall see that would appear to possibly be the case.

Summary of Clue 1

The design and construction of the Great Pyramid holds hidden geometric information - that is a FACT

Did the Ancient Egyptians know it held this information - possibly - but becomes very likely if we can find a reason why they might have done it.

Clue 2 - coming soon