interesting object found on Google Mars

[mcrom901]

(starts counting the seconds)

but the important thing is that you need to compare them to the 'bipedal'

Edited August 29, 2013 by mcrom901

[seeder]

Some people must still be reading the Octopus website, ...

For boring fact lovers, read about the tree lovers here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Northwest_tree_octopus

[JesseCuster]

However to answer to a few questions. Yes there could be tentacles instead of hands but they must have fingers as for grabbing smaller things so obviously;y it will start looking more like a hand.

So why can't an intelligent species from another world have loads of tentacle like limbs with grapsing appendages at the ends like human limbs? Perhaps there are aquatic alien species that have developed the technology to deal with outside the sea and in space just like we have developed technology to explore underwater and in space. Why two arms? Why not 4 or 6?

The head is needed to hold the brain and it must be protected by a solid bone structure, it that cannot be in the stomach or walking area , or day by day activities (hands) area for a variety of obvious reasons.

What obvious reasons? Again, octopuses are quite intelligent as species go (yes, I know they're not up there with us, but we're hypothesizing about possible alien species) and they don't have skulls to protect their brains. They don't have any bones at all in fact yet they're surviving quite well. For any problem you can think of, there's a solution other than what evolution has given mankind.

The eyes can only be in the front close to each other for 3 dimensional processing (predators) otherwise that specie will never make it. Always will stay in the shape of a prey.

Why must it be this way? Why not maneuverable eyes on stalks? Or a multitude of eyes giving full 360 degrees of vision and the brain necessary to process such information? Perhaps aliens will have gigantic octopus sized eyes or heads like owls with the eyes fixed in their sockets and they have to move their head to look in different directions. Maybe ET evolved in the deep oceans and has no eyes and instead communicates and navigates via echolocation and sound (water is an excellent medium for transmitting sound which is why whales can communicate over huge distances).

And who says intelligent ET will be a predator? Perhaps he's some sort of marine filter feeder or plant eating land creature that evolved to be poisonous or disgusting tasting to eat (like many species on earth) as his survival method.

Why can't they have wings and fly?

1) legs for moving

But there's many more ways of moving on legs than bipedal walking. Insects do it on six legs. Other creatures walk on all fours. Some have dozens of the things. We have close relatives like gorillas and chimpanzees who move on all fours mostly but still use their front limbs as hands when need be. Why should ET be confined to the walking method of homo sapiens? There's millions of species on earth and very few walk around on two limbs.

2) hands with fingers for grabbing and do things

Again, there are many more options to grapsing hands than finger appendages at the end of two jointed arms. Several boneless tentacles with grapsing appendages at the ends for a hypothetical aquatic ET.

3) head with bone structure separated by the rest of the body

Perhaps. But many species have heads with brains not seperated via a neck from the rest of the body but instead are just extensions of it, like fish, dolphins, etc. Some creatures like (again) octopuses don't have bone structures at all but are quite adapt at hunting, escaping predators, etc. and are known to be quite intelligent creatures.

by the way; more than 4 legs can actually slow down a land animal. 4 legs are the most advanced and efficient. Humans walking in two legs like birds are almost handicapped and an obvious joke of evolution.

Whether or not a creature evolves to have 2 legs or 4 or 6 or dozens is dependent on many factors. In the case of humans, it is speculated that our plains living ancestors who left the forests would have an advantage to uprightedness to allow them to see prey and predators at further distances. We made up for our lack of physical strength and speed by intelligence so we could build traps, weapons, etc. to hunt with. There's also the fact that humans are natural endurance hunters and though we can't outrun a lion that wants us for lunch, we can chase down animals to exhaustion because of our natural ability to run for long distances (there are still people in Africa who hunt this way, they basically chase down an animal that's more suited for short bursts of speed like antelopes until it's exhausted and then make their kill)

On the other hand, if you're a hunter like a lion or cheetah, then being able to sprint for short distances at speeds far above that of a human, then 4 legs are better than 2. It all depends on what type of predator you are, right? Assuming you are a predator of course. Gorillas are pretty damn smart and are peaceful herbivores. Maybe ET is like that. Big and strong and muscular to defend themselves, but peaceful plant eaters.

Who knows what strategy intelligent alien life has evolved?

I think my main overall point is that you shouldn't be confined to thinking about how we have evolved in order to figure out what ETs might look like. There's a pattern of thinking that I find very unconvincing which goes something like this "I can't figure out X, therefore Y" or "X is the only explanation I can imagine for Y, therefore it must be the right answer"

I can't figure out how ancient humans built this thing, therefore aliens must have done it.

I can't understand what this smoky blob or flash of light in my photo is, therefore it's the disembodied soul of a dead person.

I can't figure out why intelligent aliens might have evolved via a different route than humans, therefore they evolved via similar route and thus look somewhat like us.

[seeder]

but the important thing is that you need to compare them to the 'bipedal'

yeh but give them time....they are only just in the process of climbing trees, as did the apes, sooner or later tho, like apes, they will need to cross the land. Which is when the 8 limbs start to fuse in groups of two, giving them just 4 appendages, which again, in time become two legs and 2 arms, with a head with a huge brain and forward pointing eyes. And octopus eyes people say, are just like human eyes. Funny that eh?

[JesseCuster]

Because they are living in an environment where there is not competition to their size and velocity.

Exactly. It all depends on factors like this. So how do you know that any intelligent ETs out there did evolve where there is competition to their size and velocity and thus need vision similar to humans?

[mcrom901]

yeh but give them time....they are only just in the process of climbing trees, as did the apes, sooner or later tho, like apes, they will need to cross the land. Which is when the 8 limbs start to fuse in groups of two, giving them just 4 appendages, which again, in time become two legs and 2 arms, with a head with a huge brain and forward pointing eyes. And octopus eyes people say, are just like human eyes. Funny that eh?

lol, some say they're the einsteins, now all we need to do is provide them with the backbone to breathe normally...

and a few underwater coconut trees to play with...

[JesseCuster]

I believe that depends on whether one's a herbivore (i.e. usually prey) or a carnivore (i.e. a hunter). I suppose the octopodal form is more useful in environments such as water. it'd be rather awkward for walking on land. Unless one does believe that the Creator designed every single creature in detail, I suppose it wouldn't be too unreasonable to expect that creatures would evolve similar forms to suit similar environments.

Yes, creatures can evolve similar forms to suit the same environment. For examples dolphins and whales evolved from land creatures and developed a stream lined fish like shape suited for swimming.

On the other hand crabs, squids, octopuses, etc. also evolved to live underwater yet look nothing like fish or cetaceans.

Which is my whole point. There's many many ways for evolution to solve a problem and I find it hard to believe that if the result is "intelligent species with high technology" the only solution (or even the most likely) is "bipedal creature shaped like a human with human characteristics like forward facing binocular vision".

[Purple Octopus]

Awesome! This thread has gone from impact craters on Mars to tree octopi in the PNW in less than 90 posts!

[seeder]

Awesome! This thread has gone from impact craters on Mars to tree octopi in the PNW in less than 90 posts!

well I kinda had a funny feeling that after lake tau, nothing found on Mars would ever surprise me....ever again

[JesseCuster]

As far as the Mars object goes, I dunno it's kind of a neat find, but it is too interesting so I doubt NASA will investigate it.

1. The 'object' is a cluster of small craters. Have you not seen the pictures of it in this thread? What makes you think it's anything out of the ordinary or anything other than the impact craters it looks just like?

2. NASA has investigated it. They observed what they thought was a new impact crater so over the next few years after discovering it, had the HiRISE on the MRO observer photograph the object several times over the next few years.

Edited August 29, 2013 by JesseCuster

[bmk1245]

[...] Perhaps there are aquatic alien species that have developed the technology to deal with outside the sea and in space just like we have developed technology to explore underwater and in space. [...]

In aquatic environment would be hard to melt/make metal alloys. Natural furnaces (underwater volcanoes) are quite unpredictable (no wonder, dolphins just "smile" and try to copulate^[a] with swimmers of human kind)... The similar issue is with the methane atmosphere: will be there some "oxidizing" agents that will make possible "Roswell alloys"?

Edit: 'f' word changed to [a]

Edited August 29, 2013 by bmk1245

[JesseCuster]

In aquatic environment would be hard to melt/make metal alloys. Natural furnaces (underwater volcanoes) are quite unpredictable (no wonder, dolphins just "smile" and try to copulate^[a] with swimmers of human kind)... The similar issue is with the methane atmosphere: will be there some "oxidizing" agents that will make possible "Roswell alloys"?

Edit: 'f' word changed to [a]

True, but my point overall is that there are far too many factors involved to think of it from a human point of view and imagine that solutions to problems elsewhere are the same here.

Is there an alternative to metal based technology? Perhaps. Perhaps not. I don't know.

Perhaps my aquatic octopoid intelligent alien with technology is completely implausible. But how many other potential alternatives are there to the humanoid aliens in terms of what an intelligent alien with technology might look like? I'm willing to be far more than some people give credit.

Those who say intelligent aliens will look like humans make as much sense to me as saying that if you went back in time 10,000 years and changed a few things (prevent or cause droughts, earthquakes, plagues, etc. in human populated areas) and let history run itself again, you'd expect a map of the countries of the world to look the same.

Edited August 29, 2013 by JesseCuster

[mcrom901]

In aquatic environment would be hard to melt/make metal alloys. Natural furnaces (underwater volcanoes) are quite unpredictable (no wonder, dolphins just "smile" and try to copulate^[a] with swimmers of human kind)... The similar issue is with the methane atmosphere: will be there some "oxidizing" agents that will make possible "Roswell alloys"?

Edit: 'f' word changed to [a]

lol... what about bubbled furnaces?

[bmk1245]

True, but my point overall is that there are far too many factors involved to think of it from a human point of view and imagine that solutions to problems elsewhere are the same here.

[...]

Can't argue with that.

[...]

Is there an alternative to metal based technology? Perhaps. Perhaps not. I don't know.

[...]

Maybe using biotechnology/self assembling from minerals in the ocean (whatever that liquid is)? No one knows...

[...]

Perhaps my aquatic octopoid intelligent alien with technology is completely implausible. But how many other potential alternatives are there to the humanoid aliens in terms of what an intelligent alien with technology might look like? I'm willing to be far more than some people give credit.

[...]

IMHO, bipedals (smart ones) are optimal to our environment (as we have proof of that); with more massive planet and higher pressures, come necessity of leaner body and more legs to stand on. But, here again (I'm looking from my tower), in reality it may be very different bone/muscle ratio, etc, etc. We can only speculate till we meet one.

[...]

Those who say intelligent aliens will look like humans make as much sense to me as saying that if you went back in time 10,000 years and changed a few things (prevent or cause droughts, earthquakes, plagues, etc. in human populated areas) and let history run itself again, you'd expect a map of the countries of the world to look the same.

One thing about 10,000 number - we are the same numbnuts as we were then - same superstitious la la landers as we were back then.

[bmk1245]

lol... what about bubbled furnaces?

[media=]

[/media]

Long time no see, MC...

Where you have been? Mars?

With video (amazing, I have to say) you are promoting... Where are the furnaces? I see bubbles... Where is the fire?

[mcrom901]

Long time no see, MC...

Where you have been? Mars?

With video (amazing, I have to say) you are promoting... Where are the furnaces? I see bubbles... Where is the fire?

just busy with this thingy i call de analog life hope all is great with you

re the furnace thingy, the lack of real examples is cutting my imagination short for the moment...

[Space Commander Travis]

Some people must still be reading the Octopus website, ...

For boring fact lovers, read about the tree lovers here

http://en.wikipedia....st_tree_octopus

i like the Tree Octopus hat.

[seeder]

i like the Tree Octopus hat.

I shouldnt have indicated it was hoaxed, maybe then we will have seen a few here discuss the Octopi evolution to trees

[bmk1245]

just busy with this thingy i call de analog life hope all is great with you

[...]

Heh, I miss your hilarious kittypalms...

[...]

re the furnace thingy, the lack of real examples is cutting my imagination short for the moment...

Those spiders just don't have matches

[JesseCuster]

One thing about 10,000 number - we are the same numbnuts as we were then - same superstitious la la landers as we were back then.

Yes, I wasn't talking about our biological evolution, but about how human history would work itself out.

Would a political/ethnic/linguistic/etc. map of the world look the same if you want back 10,000 years and screwed up a few things?

[JesseCuster]

I had to say something ... See, now the topic is back on track

So you weren't saying that a bunch of craters on Mars is an interesting find and is so interesting a find that NASA will show no interest in it as they ignore all the cool stuff people find on Martian pictures on the Internet?

You were merely posting something you didn't really think in order to get the thread back on track. Of course you were.

[spud the mackem]

Hi all.

My first topic here.

Here is what I found last night on Google Mars .

It seems NASA was also interested in this particular object as the entire area was photographed closely with high-resolution cameras so the object is solid viewable. They are saying to be a "dark spot impact crater" but

not adding other info. The impact seems to be similar to a "plane crash on earth" a lot different than a natural meteorite which normally wouldn't affect the surroundings adding a darken texture to it. The coordinates can be seen in the nasa info screen . I've added a pinpoint with coordinates 0° 1'57.37"S 133° 5'31.29"W

Expand the grey image and you will see a figure standing in the top right corner ?

[bmk1245]

Yes, I wasn't talking about our biological evolution, but about how human history would work itself out.

Would a political/ethnic/linguistic/etc. map of the world look the same if you want back 10,000 years and screwed up a few things?

If I could get my hands on the time machine, we would be fighting chimps over banana territory nowadays...

In thousands of years we didn't progressed much physically, nor mentally... Take all technological achievements out (from simple tools to high tech gadgets), and we will be on the par with the chimps.

[qxcontinuum]

Expand the grey image and you will see a figure standing in the top right corner ?

Which one of the pics?

[qxcontinuum]

If I could get my hands on the time machine, we would be fighting chimps over banana territory nowadays...

In thousands of years we didn't progressed much physically, nor mentally... Take all technological achievements out (from simple tools to high tech gadgets), and we will be on the par with the chimps.

I agree, so the right question is how did we managed to come so far tahnologically?

I am afraid to guess that the right answer is - we have been helped. But why and to what cost?

Edited August 30, 2013 by qxcontinuum