Atlantis = Niflheim

[The Puzzler]

What Puzzler does is not, by any stretch of the imagination, linguistics. It deserves its own name to differentiate it from actual linguistics so that no one suffers under the delusion Puzzler knows what she's talking about. Codlingua? Semiofantasism? Historical and Comparative b******s? MadeUpotics?

--Jaylemurph

I asked you to keep out of my way, that means don't reply, don't even read my posts, don't even think about what I post, don't even bother to come up with some pathetic put-down to me when replying to someone else, it means keep your bassett dog face out of my life, you make me puke.

Edited September 11, 2013 by The Puzzler

[jaylemurph]

I asked you to keep out of my way, that means don't reply, don't even read my posts, don't even think about what I post, don't even bother to come up with some pathetic put-down to me when replying to someone else, it means keep your bassett dog face out of my life, you make me puke.

..and when you become a mod, you can enforce that. Up until that point, on a public forum, you don't have any right not to be presented with the fact what you're doing has no linguistic validity just because you don't like hearing it. When you stop spouting fictional, lego linguistics, I'll be happy not to post about you doing it. Til then, your posts are fair game for me (or anyone else so moved) to reply to.

And you spelled basset hound wrong. Not a good step for someone pontificating about language.

--Jaylemurph

[The Puzzler]

..and when you become a mod, you can enforce that. Up until that point, on a public forum, you don't have any right not to be presented with the fact what you're doing has no linguistic validity just because you don't like hearing it. When you stop spouting fictional, lego linguistics, I'll be happy not to post about you doing it. Til then, your posts are fair game for me (or anyone else so moved) to reply to.

And you spelled basset hound wrong. Not a good step for someone pontificating about language.

--Jaylemurph

OK, since you won't go away when asked nicely maybe you can tell me what was so wrong about any of my 3 posts (#95,96,97) - so I can pontificate on it some more.

If you can find that I have made more than 5 spelling errors in the 5 years I've been here I'll personally come and kiss your basset hounds butt.

[jaylemurph]

Or Father - aita - in Basque and numerous other language + las from Latin, weary, tired. I'm mixing two languages but feel this makes a lot of sense and might work in some way, especially once taken into Greek and Hellenised.

Well, first of all you're positing some manner of hybrid word between two languages with absolutely no genetic linguistic relationship, and for which there is neither any proof nor any reason to believe any proof was ever extant. The only thing connecting them is your own theory, so using this word as proof of any theory is a complete tautology: it exists only to prove your point, but your point only exists because of your made-up word.

Second of all, you're not using the full word. 'Las' is only a morphological root of a word, not a complete word. In fact, it's not even the complete root, at that. It's lass-. The only reason I can see for not using the complete word, or even the complete root, is that it Atlas as it is attested doesn't have two "s"es at the end. Which suggests your derivation, such as it is, comes only from the form and not the actual derivation or historical evidence for the word. That and the fact that I'm not aware of any Latin borrowing, learned or otherwise, that uses only the root of a word and not the entire form -- I would point specifically to Kibler's Introdction to Old French, which discusses both the morphological and syntactical change in Latin words through the course of borrowing (learned and otherwise), and how important those endings were to language development: it has hundreds of counterexamples to your use here.

But even you admit this isn't very firm ground, and there's no reason to think it stands up to sense. Niether does the idea that the Greeks -- not a specifc Greek dialect, mind, just an undefined 'Greek', which is like saying 'Chinese' rather than Mandarin, Hokkien, or Cantonese -- would then borrow a (proto?) Latin/Euskara word, seemingly only to make the derivation of the word murkier, and that only to make your theory the stronger.

And that was two lines from one post.

I don't think either one of us particularly wants to go on in this nit-picking strain, and by and large I'm happy to pass most of your posts by as I have done recently, but I think my comments that your codlingua is not a valid use of linguistics stands, and you can't get too huffy seeing that kind of response in print.

--Jaylemurph

[granpa]

Puzzler please dont argue with him.

Its a waste of time.

The "Egypt" that Solon traveled to would have to have been in or along the shores of the sea of Marmara.

This reminds me of the myth involving the Theseus

where he supposedly traveled to Crete

yet its clear to me that he probably only traveled as far as one of the nearby islands

along the road he was traveling.

the outline of the shore inside the sea of marmara kinda looks like the outline of the shore of the Mediterranean

here is the full text of Critias (its public domain)

http://religion.wikia.com/wiki/Critias

Critias

By Plato

Written 360 B.C.E

Translated by Benjamin Jowett

here is the same text with key parts highlighted.

http://religion.wikia.com/wiki/User:Granpa/Factoids/Critias

If so then Uludağ = Sinai

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uluda%C4%9F

Edited September 12, 2013 by granpa

[The Puzzler]

Well, first of all you're positing some manner of hybrid word between two languages with absolutely no genetic linguistic relationship, and for which there is neither any proof nor any reason to believe any proof was ever extant. The only thing connecting them is your own theory, so using this word as proof of any theory is a complete tautology: it exists only to prove your point, but your point only exists because of your made-up word.

Second of all, you're not using the full word. 'Las' is only a morphological root of a word, not a complete word. In fact, it's not even the complete root, at that. It's lass-. The only reason I can see for not using the complete word, or even the complete root, is that it Atlas as it is attested doesn't have two "s"es at the end. Which suggests your derivation, such as it is, comes only from the form and not the actual derivation or historical evidence for the word. That and the fact that I'm not aware of any Latin borrowing, learned or otherwise, that uses only the root of a word and not the entire form -- I would point specifically to Kibler's Introdction to Old French, which discusses both the morphological and syntactical change in Latin words through the course of borrowing (learned and otherwise), and how important those endings were to language development: it has hundreds of counterexamples to your use here.

But even you admit this isn't very firm ground, and there's no reason to think it stands up to sense. Niether does the idea that the Greeks -- not a specifc Greek dialect, mind, just an undefined 'Greek', which is like saying 'Chinese' rather than Mandarin, Hokkien, or Cantonese -- would then borrow a (proto?) Latin/Euskara word, seemingly only to make the derivation of the word murkier, and that only to make your theory the stronger.

And that was two lines from one post.

I don't think either one of us particularly wants to go on in this nit-picking strain, and by and large I'm happy to pass most of your posts by as I have done recently, but I think my comments that your codlingua is not a valid use of linguistics stands, and you can't get too huffy seeing that kind of response in print.

--Jaylemurph

You're right, I don't want to nit-pick with you, especially since I already stated, which you acknowledged, that it was basically untenable in etymological terms.

Out of 3 posts, that's the best you could do...? One I already said was unworkable, you disappoint me and maybe even underestimate me.

[granpa]

atoll is word that comes to mind. (Indo-Aryan language) http://dictionary.re...etymology/atoll

Or Father - aita - in Basque and numerous other language + las from Latin, weary, tired. I'm mixing two languages but feel this makes a lot of sense and might work in some way, especially once taken into Greek and Hellenised.

Father tired or father enduring, that kind of thing - a tired mountain father (from holding up the sky, that is hard work) - especially since Atlas had a numerous family, he must be some kind of father figure.

he always looks really tired and I hear this used in words to describe him, when he tries to trick Heracles to hold the sky or in older etymologies like 'enduring'.

http://www.bluelette...ngs=H3918&t=KJV

לַיִשׁ

lion

http://www.biblegate...b 4&version=NIV

Then Eliphaz the Temanite replied:

2 “If someone ventures a word with you, will you be impatient?

But who can keep from speaking?

3 Think how you have instructed many,

how you have strengthened feeble hands.

4 Your words have supported those who stumbled;

you have strengthened faltering knees.

5 But now trouble comes to you, and you are discouraged;

it strikes you, and you are dismayed.

6 Should not your piety be your confidence

and your blameless ways your hope?

7 “Consider now: Who, being innocent, has ever perished?

Where were the upright ever destroyed?

8 As I have observed, those who plow evil

and those who sow trouble reap it.

9 At the breath of God they perish;

at the blast of his anger they are no more.

10 The lions may roar and growl,

yet the teeth of the great lions are broken.

11 The lion perishes for lack of prey,

and the cubs of the lioness are scattered.

Edited September 12, 2013 by granpa

[granpa]

atoll is word that comes to mind. (Indo-Aryan language) http://dictionary.re...etymology/atoll

Or Father - aita - in Basque and numerous other language + las from Latin, weary, tired. I'm mixing two languages but feel this makes a lot of sense and might work in some way, especially once taken into Greek and Hellenised.

Father tired or father enduring, that kind of thing - a tired mountain father (from holding up the sky, that is hard work) - especially since Atlas had a numerous family, he must be some kind of father figure.

he always looks really tired and I hear this used in words to describe him, when he tries to trick Heracles to hold the sky or in older etymologies like 'enduring'.

http://www.bluelette...ongs=H328&t=KJV

אַט

gentleness, softness

gently

flowing

softly

enchanter, necromancer (substantive)

12 “A word was secretly brought to me,

my ears caught a whisper of it.

13 Amid disquieting dreams in the night,

when deep sleep falls on people,

14 fear and trembling seized me

and made all my bones shake.

15 A spirit glided past my face,

and the hair on my body stood on end.

16 It stopped,

but I could not tell what it was.

A form stood before my eyes,

and I heard a hushed voice:

17 ‘Can a mortal be more righteous than God?

Can even a strong man be more pure than his Maker?

18 If God places no trust in his servants,

if he charges his angels with error,

19 how much more those who live in houses of clay,

whose foundations are in the dust,

who are crushed more readily than a moth!

20 Between dawn and dusk they are broken to pieces;

unnoticed, they perish forever.

21 Are not the cords of their tent pulled up,

so that they die without wisdom?’

Edited September 12, 2013 by granpa

[granpa]

and of course when you think of lions the first thing you think of is Heracles

[The Puzzler]

and of course when you think of lions the first thing you think of is Heracles

I actually thought of Ilion first, then thought of the lion's gate of Hattusas and then Mycenae and I'm not really following your line of thought in any of these posts regarding the topic, but I wish I was...

[granpa]

I edited the posts to make them more readable.

are you familiar with the hebrew alphabet?

the book of job spends a lot of time talking about the men before the flood

That's probably why it's such a difficult book to read

Edited September 12, 2013 by granpa

[granpa]

[granpa]

...and I'm not really following your line of thought in any of these posts regarding the topic, but I wish I was...

I can't answer your questions if I don't know what they are

Edited September 12, 2013 by granpa

[The Puzzler]

I can't answer your questions if I don't know what they are

That's OK, I think this is a bit beyond me and I have enough on my plate.

[jaylemurph]

Puzzler please dont argue with him.

Its a waste of time.

Your specific counter-argument, complete with examples, to rebut my comments are enlightening, gramps. But in Puzzler, you've found a kindred spirit in codlingua. I'd wish you every success in your efforts, but since you're making it all up anyway, you'd only be unsuccessful if you were suffering from deep-set psychological problems, and you both appear to be reasonably sane.

--Jaylemurph

[granpa]

atlantis = at - land ???

land (n.) Old English land, lond, "ground, soil," also "definite portion of the earth's surface, home region of a person or a people, territory marked by political boundaries," from Proto-Germanic *landom (cf. Old Norse, Old Frisian Dutch, German, Gothic land), from PIE *lendh- "land, heath" (cf. Old Irish land, Middle Welsh llan "an open space," Welsh llan "enclosure, church," Breton lann "heath," source of French lande; Old Church Slavonic ledina "waste land, heath," Czech lada "fallow land").

Etymological evidence and Gothic use indicates the original sense was "a definite portion of the earth's surface owned by an individual or home of a nation." Meaning early extended to "solid surface of the earth," which had been the sense of the root of Modern English earth. Original sense of land in English is now mostly found under country. To take the lay of the land is a nautical expression. In the American English exclamation land's sakes (1846) land is a euphemism for Lord.

Edited September 12, 2013 by granpa

[granpa]

Ymir = Ahriman (rules for 9000 years) = Dragon

20 And I saw an angel coming down out of heaven, having the key to the Abyss and holding in his hand a great chain. ² He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. ³ He threw him into the Abyss, and locked and sealed it over him, to keep him from deceiving the nations anymore until the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be set free for a short time.

⁷ When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison ⁸ and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. ⁹ They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God’s people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them. ¹⁰ And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Dragon released from abyss = Typhon

Edited September 13, 2013 by granpa

[jaylemurph]

One I already said was unworkable, you disappoint me and maybe even underestimate me.

Oh, never that. I have a tremendous amount of respect for your research skills, your command of several mythological traditions, and your original thinking. All of which make your resort to made-up, situational linguistics all the more disappointing and frustrating. But this is far from the topic, so I'll leave you and gramps to it.

--Jaylemurph

[The Puzzler]

Oh, never that. I have a tremendous amount of respect for your research skills, your command of several mythological traditions, and your original thinking. All of which make your resort to made-up, situational linguistics all the more disappointing and frustrating. But this is far from the topic, so I'll leave you and gramps to it.

--Jaylemurph

Thanks..... I think.

I'll have to leave gramps to it, as I said:

That's OK, I think this is a bit beyond me and I have enough on my plate.

[granpa]

In Vafþrúðnismál Odin asks the Giant Vafþrúðnir about the origin of Ymir. Vafþrúðnir answers:

From Éliwaves

Eitrdrops splashed

that grew into a giant

who begat all families

from which all [giants] come

that is why we are easily angered

watery abyss = the deep

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

² And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep.

And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Edited September 13, 2013 by granpa

[granpa]

http://religion.wiki...ritias#Atlantis

And Poseidon, receiving for his lot the island of Atlantis, begat children by a mortal woman, and settled them in a part of the island, which I will describe.

He also begat and brought up five pairs of twin male children; and dividing the island of Atlantis into ten portions, he gave to the first-born of the eldest pair his mother's dwelling and the surrounding allotment, which was the largest and best, and made him king over the rest;

the others he made princes, and gave them rule over many men, and a large territory.

And he named them all; the eldest, who was the first king, he named Atlas, and after him the whole island and the ocean were called Atlantic.

To his twin brother, who was born after him, and obtained as his lot the extremity of the island towards the pillars of Heracles, facing the country which is now called the region of Gades in that part of the world, he gave the name which in the Hellenic language is Eumelus, in the language of the country which is named after him, Gadeirus.

Of the second pair of twins he called one Ampheres, and the other Evaemon.

To the elder of the third pair of twins he gave the name Mneseus, and Autochthon to the one who followed him.

Of the fourth pair of twins he called the elder Elasippus, and the younger Mestor.

And of the fifth pair he gave to the elder the name of Azaes, and to the younger that of Diaprepes.

http://religion.wiki.../Diné_Bahaneʼ

The bluebird had joined the Air-Spirit People and was the first to reach the Third or Yellow World. After him came the First Four and all the others.

The great Female River crossed this land from north to south. The great Male River crossed the land from east to west. The rivers flowed through one another in the middle, and the name of this place is Tó Ałnáosdlį́į́, Crossing of the Waters.

In the Yellow World were six mountains.

Holy People lived on the mountains. They were immortal, and could travel by following the path of the rainbow and the rays of the sun.

In the autumn, the four Holy People called to First Man and First Woman, and visited them

they transformed First Man and First Woman from spirit people into human beings, with great powers.^[6] "Now," the Holy People said, "live here as husband and wife." At the end of four days, First Woman gave birth to twins. They were neither male nor female, but Nádleeh, hermaphrodite. Four days later a second set of twins was born, one male and one female. After twenty days a total of five pairs of twins had been born, half of them male and half of them female. Almost at once they were full grown. The Holy People took each set of twins to their home on the East Mountain and taught them how to wear masks and pray, and then returned them to their parents.

Edited September 17, 2013 by granpa

[granpa]

The basic outline of Diné Bahaneʼ begins with the Niłchiʼ Diyin (Holy Wind) being created, the mists of lights which arose through the darkness to animate and bring purpose to the myriad Diyin Dineʼé (Holy People), supernatural and sacred in the different three lower worlds. All these things were spiritually created in the time before the earth existed and the physical aspect of humans did not exist yet, but the spiritual did.

The First World was small and centered on an island floating in a the middle of four seas. The inhabitants of the first world were Diyin Dineʼé, Coyote, mist beings and various insect people. The supernatural beings First Woman and First Man came into existence here and met for the first time after seeing each other's fire. The various beings started fighting with one another and departed by flying out an opening in the east.

They journeyed to the Second World, Niʼ Hodootłʼizh, which was inhabited by various blue-gray furred mammals and various birds, including blue swallows. The beings from the First World offended Swallow Chief, Tʼash Jíshi, and they were asked to leave. First Man created a wand of jet and other materials to allow the people to walk upon it up into the next world through an opening in the south.

In the Third World, Niʼ Hałtsooí, there were two rivers that formed a cross and the Sacred Mountains but there was still no sun. More animal people lived here too. This time it was not discord among the people that drove them away but a great flood caused by Tééhoołtsódii when Coyote stole her child.

When the people arrived in The Fourth World, Niʼ Hodisxǫs, it was covered in water and there were monsters (naayééʼ) living here. The Sacred Mountains were re-formed from soil taken from the original mountains in the Second World. First Man, First Woman, and the Holy People created the sun, moon, seasons, and stars. It was here that true death came into existence via Coyote tossing a stone into a lake and declaring that if it sank then the dead would go back to the previous world.

The first human born in the Fourth World is Asdzą́ą́ Nádleehé who, in turn, gives birth to the Hero Twins called Naayééʼ Neizghání and Tóbájíshchíní. The twins have many adventures in which they helped to rid the world of various monsters. Multiple batches of modern humans were created a number of times in the Fourth World and the Diyin Dineʼé gave them ceremonies which are still practiced today.

Edited September 17, 2013 by granpa

[Whisperer]

Awesome stuff granpa....

[granpa]

based on Navajo and Aztec mythologies I have changed my mind.

Atlantis isnt Niflheim.

Atlantis is Midgard.

I cant type right now so I cant go into it further

religion.wikia.com/wiki/At-a-glance

Edited September 19, 2013 by granpa

[granpa]

The "Egypt" that Solon traveled to would have to have been in or along the shores of the sea of Marmara.

This reminds me of the myth involving the Theseus

where he supposedly traveled to Crete

yet its clear to me that he probably only traveled as far as one of the nearby islands

along the road he was traveling.

the outline of the shore inside the sea of marmara kinda looks like the outline of the shore of the Mediterranean

here is the full text of Critias (its public domain)

http://religion.wikia.com/wiki/Critias

Translated by Benjamin Jowett

here is the same text with key parts highlighted.

http://religion.wiki...actoids/Critias

Are you suggesting Plato transplaced Solon in the narrative, and the 'history' that Solon allegedly received from the priest in Sais was actually transmitted to him by someone in Anatolia (around Mamara)?

He "transplaced" more than that.

the people in the story clearly come well after Deucalion

This I infer because Solon said that the priests in their narrative of that war mentioned most of the names which are recorded prior to the time of Theseus, such as Cecrops, and Erechtheus, and Erichthonius, and Erysichthon, and the names of the women in like manner.

yet Plato says the flood of Atlantis was the third before the flood of Deucalion

http://religion.wiki...Greek_mythology

Edited September 20, 2013 by granpa