Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood [Part 2]

[Ott]

Sandbach probably should have used Mum (in English) even though general use nowadays uses mother in it's place. (Knowing that mother is not really mem/mam)

The biggest dilemma (imo) in translating the OLB, is whether to stay as close the original words as possible, or use words that more reflect the probable meaning.

For us, "mum" is very informal. In OLB "mam" simply means (a normal) "mother"; it's not informal. So while the translation "mum" is closer to the original word "mam", the translation "mother" is closer to the meaning of "mam".

Other example from Hiddes letter to Okke (first unnumbered page):

THISSA BOKA MOT I MITH LIF AND SÉLE WARJA.

You must protect these books with life and soul.

For us, the general meaning of "books" is printed and published books. (Ofcourse there's also notebooks, scrapbooks.)

The "BOKA" in Hiddes letter are handcopied documents (or one handcopied book, not plural).

Another example (there's very many more):

BYLDON was translated by Ottema into "beelden", which is usually interpreted as statues. So Sandbach translated it as "statues".

But it can also mean pictures, images (Dutch: afbeeldingen, German: bilder).

The fact that oh, so many words and fragments in OLB are impossible to translate is another reason why it is utterly unlikely that it is a fabrication.

Edited September 30, 2013 by gestur

[Ott]

When was the last time you had to deal with hobos, junkies, dealers, and a couple of crazy women (and one of them your goddamn EX)?

I understand that, in your conditions, it is very hard to concentrate and think clearly.

But I suggest you move this irrelevant attention-seeking scit-scat to a social networking site like Faecbook.

[The Puzzler]

That's the part of Rika's discourse I dislike most.

It shows that the creation myth - in which three primal mothers were born from the Earth and impregnated by the mysterious "Wralsa'd od" - was actually presented (at least by some Famna) as if it were factual, instead of symbolic. This is typical for priesthoods that were despised by the Fryas.

Also, it doesn't make sense. It's not the presumed immaculate conception of Frya that makes her a MODER, but the fact that she was seen as the mother of the Fryan people; a folk-mother. The Fryas saw themselves as FRYAS-BERN (children of Frya).

Very interesting suggestion. It makes sense to me.

The part about Frya being a true Mother or Moder - based in mod - may make sense if we imagine that Frya was the only true Mother - I gave "mood, mind (N.), intention" - this may indicate the form of conception - like immaculate conception - it was more a mind intention that she was created from, rather than an actual act.

They were her children, not again by any act - but simply by the mind/intention of Frya, similar to how Fasta wrote with her stylus.

Athena's name has this meaning, according to Plato - when she was 'birthed' from Zeus' head. Contemplate it for a bit.

Glad I live in the rainforest, nothing bothers me, except the occasional possum-fighting or tree-frogs....

[The Puzzler]

The biggest dilemma (imo) in translating the OLB, is whether to stay as close the original words as possible, or use words that more reflect the probable meaning.

For us, "mum" is very informal. In OLB "mam" simply means (a normal) "mother"; it's not informal. So while the translation "mum" is closer to the original word "mam", the translation "mother" is closer to the meaning of "mam".

I probably should have said the translation should have been mam - mum and mom imo are just accent changes.

I can see how mother can be used for Mum/Mam, but sticking to what Rika said, mother is moder and imo is actually not related to mam/mama - which really means (to a baby) breast-feeding - a baby saying mama is really saying "feed me".

So, yes, Hiddo could say mother meaning Mum/Mam but now I clearly see that it isn't really the same word (according to Rika).

Hiddo would be excused as he probably wouldn't have realised it and just used 'mother' as a matter of course, as we all do now.

Edited September 30, 2013 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

Some examples to demonstrate that MÀM or MEM simply meant a normal mother, whitout a direct relation to breastfeeding:

(Translations from Sandbach)

IK RÉDE JO THAT J HIM ÀND SIN MÀM TO THÀT LÁND UT.DRIVA

I counsel you to expel him and his mother from the land (p.21)

ÀFTER MÀM ÀND BROTHERIS DÁD

After the death of my mother and my brother (p.127)

SIN MÀM WÉRE THJU TOGHATER ENIS KÉNING

whose [his] mother was the daughter of a king (p.185)

I would keep mam or in English mum in all those translations - or you are doing what Rika said is not correct.

[Knul]

The fact that oh, so many words and fragments in OLB are impossible to translate is another reason why it is utterly unlikely that it is a fabrication.

The translation is not the problem, but the interpretation like byldon = beelden (statues) or afbeeldingen (pictures). In fact here we deal with the biblical word that christians should not make false statues/pictures of God, because that was done by the pagans. The OLB contains many words/expressions which refer to modern christianity in a pre-christian celtic time. As for the translation it would be better to rely on the mid 19th c. Dutch language and/or Frisian expressions. Some of them are obsolete now.

[Ott]

BYLDON was translated by Ottema into "beelden", which is usually interpreted as statues. So Sandbach translated it as "statues".

But it can also mean pictures, images (Dutch: afbeeldingen, German: bilder).

Correction:

Sandbach did actually translate this word half of the times as "images".

The term BYLD or BILD is heavily charged in the OLB. It is often associated with competing or threatening cultures (or priesthoods).

Symbols, images, imagination can indeed be a powerful tool to win the hearts and minds of people, to indoctrinate them, to install fear (and guilt), to enslave them or inspire them.

In orthodox Islam it is still taboo to create images. In the christian reformation of the 16th century, catholic images were destroyed by the protestants.

Much more can be said about this topic, but for now I will focus on the fragments.

(edit: will have to repost, because the format got scrambled)

Edited October 2, 2013 by gestur

[Ott]

The translation is not the problem, but the interpretation

translation = interpretation

The OLB contains many words/expressions which refer to modern christianity in a pre-christian celtic time.

That is one interpretation.

Another is, that these expressions and themes were actually older than the origin of christianity.

As for the translation it would be better to rely on the mid 19th c. Dutch language and/or Frisian expressions. Some of them are obsolete now.

Many words and expressions were not known in the 19th century either.

[Ott]

... but for now I will focus on the fragments.

Words and spelling variety

vorbild - german

voorbeeld - dutch

example - english

FÁRBILD - 1

FÁRBYLD - 13

===

sinnbild - german

zinnebeeld - dutch

symbol - english

SINNA.BYLD - 2

SINE.BYLD - 3

SINNE BILD - 5

===

bildnis - german

beeltenis - dutch

image, statue - english

BYLDNESE - 4

BYLDNISSE - 9

===

bild(er) - german

beeld(en) - dutch

image(s), statue(s) - english

singular:

BYLD - 16a

plural:

BYLDON - 6, 17ab, 19, 20abc

BYLDA - 14bc, 15a, 16b

BYLDUM - 15b

FALSKA DROCHTEN.LIKANDE BYLDUM - 7

FALSKA DROCHTEN LIKANDA ÀND VNTUCHTIGA BILDA - 10

DROCHTEN.LIKANDA BYLDA - 14a

DROCHTENLIKA BYLDON - 18

TJODA DROCHTEN LÍKANDA BYLDON - 22

SKÉNE BYLDA - 11

===

denkbeelden - dutch

thoughts, ideas ('think-images') - english

THÀNK.BYLDA - 12

===

verbeelden - dutch

to imagine - english

FORBYLDE - 8

===

was uitgebeeld, afgebeeld - dutch

was represented, depicted - english

WAS UT EBYLD - 21

=================================

Fragments (O-S = Ottema/ Sandbach)

1 [002/29] Adela's speech

THRVCH THÀT WLE FÁRBILD FON.A WÉI BROCHT

[O-S p.7]

door het slechte voorbeeld van den weg gebracht

led astray by this bad example

2 [032/21] Minno

ÉWA. IS ÁK THET ORA SINNA.BYLD FON WR.ALDA.S GÁST

[O-S p.47]

Ewa (eeuwig) is ook het andere zinnebeeld van Wralda['s geest]

Eternity [:'ewa', laws, centuries] is [also] another [:the second] symbol of Wr-alda['s goast, spirit]

3 [034/18] Minerva

THISE ÀJAR SEND THAT SINE.BYLD FON FRYA.S RÉD.JÉVINGA

WÉRIN VSA TO KVMSTE FORHÉLEN HLÉIT

[O-S p.51]

Deze eijeren zijn het zinnebeeld van Frya’s raadgevingen,

waarin onze toekomst verholen ligt

These eggs are the symbols of Frya's counsels,

in which our future [...] lies concealed.

4 [038/08] Minerva

HJRA BYLDNESE STÀLDON HJA VPPA HJARA ÀLTÀRUM

JEFTHA HJA VRSELLADE.T ANDA DVMA MÀNNISKA

[O-S p.55]

Zij stelden haar beeld [:beeltenis] op hunne altaren,

[-] of verkochten [het] aan de domme menschen

They erected statues to her [installed her image] on all their altars,

[-] [or] sold [it] to the simple [:dumb] people

5 [045/04] That Jol

THÀT JOL. THÀT IS THÀT FORMA SINNE BILD WR.ALDA.S

[O-S p.65]

het Juul [Jol], dat is het eerste zinnebeeld van Wralda

the Juul [Jol, Yol] — that is, the first symbol of Wr-alda

6 [051/21] Magjara

NW HJA KÀRKA HÀVE. ÁK BYLDON

[O-S p.73]

in de [nu zij] kerken hebben zij [,] ook beelden

[now that they have churches,] also statues [-]

7 [055/23] Wodin

THAWÍLA HI SIN FRYA HALS BOG

TOFARA FALSKA DROCHTEN.LIKANDE BYLDUM

[O-S p.79]

terwijl hij zijn vrije hals boog

voor de valsche gedrochtelijke beelden

while he bent his free head [:neck]

before the false and deceitful [:idol-like, monstrous] images

8 [061/18] Gola

SÁ LUKLIK AS NINMÀN HIN SELVA MOCHT FORBYLDE

[O-S p.87]

zoo gelukkig, als niemand zich konde verbeelden

so happy that [as] no one could form any idea of it [imagine]

9 [072/29] Minerva

FORTH JAVON HJA THAT FOLK BYLDNISSE FON HIRA LIKNESS

TJUGANDE THAT HJA THÉRAN ELLA FRÉJA MACHTE

ALSANAKA HJA HÉROCH BILÉWON

[O-S p.103]

Daarop gaven zij het volk beeldtenissen van hare gelijkenis,

betuigende dat zij daaraan alles mochten vragen,

zoo lang zij gehoorzaam bleven.

Thereupon they gave the people statues of her,

declaring that they might ask of them whatever they liked,

as long as they were obedient to her.

10 [078/18] Athenja

VMBE BY THA WLA PRESTRUM INEN GODA HROP TO WÉSANDE

STÀLDON HJA THÉR FALSKA DROCHTEN LIKANDA ÀND VNTUCHTIGA BILDA

[O-S p.109]

om bij de vuile priesteren in een goeden dunk [roep] te wezen,

plaatsten [stelden] zij daar op valsche goden gelijkende en ontuchtige beelden in

in order to remain in good odour with the nasty priests,

they placed there likenesses of false gods and unchaste statues

11 [100/18] Formlere

HJARA GÁST SLÁVTH HIM SELVA IMMER OF

VMBE SKÉNE BYLDA TO MÁKJANDE THÉR Y ÀFTERNÉI ANBID

[O-S p.139]

hun geest slooft zich altijd af

om schoone beelden te maken, die zij [hij] naderhand aanbidden [aanbidt]

their spirit [always] labours [:'slaves off itself']

to create beautiful statues [:'shining' images], which they [it] afterwards worship[-s]

12 [102/29] Formlere

THÀT SINA THÀNK.BYLDA WIXLE THA HWILER SÉID IK THÀNK

[O-S p.141]

dat zijne denkbeelden veranderen [:wisselen], terwijl hij zegt: ik denk

that his thoughts [:ideas, 'think-images'] change even while he says, I think

13 [103/27] Trast

TÁL ÀND ANDWARDE ORA FÁMNA TO.N FÁRBYLD

[O-S p.143]

Taal en antwoord aan andere maagden tot een voorbeeld

Speech and answer to other maidens as an example

14 [114/06] Frethorik - 3x

FRYA HÉD.VS LÉTEN. HJRA WÁK.FÁMKES HÉDE HJU ABEFTA HALDEN.

HWAND DROCHTEN.LIKANDA BYLDA WÉRON BINNA VSA LÁND.PÀLA FVNDEN.

IK BRONDE FON NYS.GÍR. VMBE THI BYLDA TO BISJAN [...]

JEF HJU MI ÀRGE TID ÀND THA BYLDA RÉIS WISA WILDE

[O-S p.157]

Frya had ons verlaten; zij had hare waakmeisjes terug gehouden;

want gedrochtelijke (afgods)beelden waren binnen onze landpalen gevonden.

Ik brande van nieuwsgierigheid om die beelden te zien. [...]

of zij mij de booze [erge] tijd en de beelden eens [wijzen] wilde toonen.

Frya had forsaken

us. She withheld from us all her watch-maidens,

because monstrous idolatrous images had been found within our landmarks [:-poles].

I burnt with curiosity [:'newsgreed'] to see those images. [...]

if she would show me the bad times and the images.

15 [114/27] Frethorik - 2x

THA WALDA THÉR BYLDA IN WÉRON [...]

THA WALDA MITHA BYLDUM DRÉVON NÉI SÉ

[O-S p.159]

De wouden, daar beelden in waren, [...]

de wouden met de beelden dreven naar zee

The woods in which the images were, [...]

the forests with the images drifted out to sea

16 [132/21] the Joniers - 2x

HWERSA IMMAN EN BYLD MÁKATH ÀFTER ÉNNEN VRSTURVEN ÀND THET LIKT

SÁ LÁWATH HJA THÀT THENE GÁST THES VRSTURVENE THÉR INNE FÁRATH.

THÉRVR HÀVATH HJA ALLE BYLDA VRBURGEN.

FON FRYA. FÀSTA. MÉDÉA. THJANJA. HELLÉNJA ÀND FÉLO OTHERA

[O-S p.181]

Wanneer iemand een beeld maakt naar een afgestorvene en het gelijkt,

dan gelooven zij, dat de geest des overledene daarin vaart.

Daarom hebben zij alle beelden verborgen

van Frya, Fâsta, Medea, Thiania [:Diana], Hellenia en vele andere.

When they make a statue of a dead person [and it resembles]

they believe that the spirit of the departed enters into it;

therefore they have hidden their statues

of Frya, Fâsta, Medea, Thiania [:Diana], Hellenia, and many others.

17 [139/04] false priests of the Yes-us/ Buda cult - 2x

INNA HOLA THÉRA BERGA GVNGON HJA HÉMA.

THACH THÉRIN HÉDON HJA HJARA SKÀT BROCHT.

THÉR BINNA MÁKADON HJA BYLDON ÀFTER JES.US.

THESSA BYLDON JÁVON HJA AN THA VNÀRG THÀNKANDA LJUDA.

TO LONGA LERSTA SÉIDON HJA THÀT JES.US EN DROCHTEN WÉRE.

THÀT.I THÀT SELVA AN HJAM BILÉDEN HÉDE.

ÀND THÀT ALLE THÉR AN HIM. ÀND AN SINA LÉRA LÁWA WILDE

NÉIMELS IN SIN KÉNINGKRIK KVMA SKOLDE.

HWÉR FRÜ IS ÀND NOCHTA SEND

[O-S p.189]

Zij gingen in de holen der bergen wonen,

doch hierin hadden zij hunne schatten gebracht,

daar binnen maakten zij beelden van Jessos [Jes-us].

Deze beelden gaven ze aan de onergdenkende lieden;

ten langen laatste zeiden zij dat Jessos [Jes-us] een godheid was,

dat hij zelf dit aan hun had beleden,

en dat allen die aan hem en zijne leer gelooven wilden,

hiernamaals in zijn koningrijk zouden komen,

waar vreugde is en genietingen zijn.

They went to live in caves in the mountains,

but in them they had hid all their treasures,

and they made in them images of Jessos [Yes-us].

They gave these statues to simple [:'unbadthinking'] people,

and at last they said that Jessos [Yes-us] was a god,

that he had declared this himself to them,

and that all those who followed his doctrine

should enter his kingdom hereafter,

where all was joy and happiness.

18 [164/14] Pangab

IN THET LOND SIND OLLE PRESTERA TJOK ÀND RIK.

IN HJARA CHÀRKA WERTHAT OLLERLÉJA DROCHTENLIKA BYLDON FVNDEN.

THÉR VNDER SIND FÉLO GOLDEN MANK

[O-S p.223]

In dit land zijn alle priesters dik en rijk.

In hunne kerken worden allerlei gedrochtelijke beelden gevonden,

daaronder zijn vele van goud.

In this country [:land] all the priests are fat and rich.

In their churches there are all kinds of monstrous ['idol-like'] images,

many of them of gold.

19 [164/32] Pangab

THA ÍRA NE SIND NÉNE ÍRA MÁR GODA MINSKA

THER NÉNA BYLDON TOLÉTA NACH ONBIDDA.

ÁK WILLATH SE NÉNA CHÀRKA NACH PRESTAR DOGA.

[O-S p.223]

De Yren zijn geen wilden, maar goede menschen,

die geen beelden toelaten noch aanbidden:

ook willen ze geen kerken noch priesteren dulden [:gedogen]

The Yren are not savages, but good people,

who neither pray to nor tolerate images;

neither will they suffer [allow] priests or churches

20 [191/05] Rika's letter - 3x

THÁ THA KÀNINGGAR ET ALSA WÍD BROCHT HÉDE

THÀT HJA FÉDERUM THÉRA FOLKAR HÉTE THÁ GVNGON HJA TO

ÀND LÉTON BYLDON ÀFTER HJARA DÁNTNE MÁKJA

THISSA BYLDON LÉTON HJA INNA THA CHERKA STALLA NÉST THA BYLDON THÉRA DROCHTNE

ÀND THI JENA THAM THÉR NAVT FAR BUGJA NILDE

WARTH OM BROCHT JEFTHA AN KÉDNE DÉN

[O-S p.231]

Toen de koningen het zoo ver gebracht hadden,

dat zij vaderen [:voeders] der volken heetten, gingen zij heen

en lieten beelden naar hunne gedaante maken;

deze beelden lieten zij in de kerken stellen naast de beelden der afgoden,

en degene die daar niet voor buigen wilde,

werd omgebracht of in ketenen gedaan.

When the kings had accomplished

that they should be called fathers [:feeders] of the people,

they had statues of themselves made,

and erected [these statues] in the churches beside the statues of the idols,

and those who would not bow down to them

were either killed or put in chains.

21 [205/07] Askar

EN GOLDEN SKILD HWÉRVPPA ÁSKAR HIS DÁNTE KUNSTA LIK WAS UT EBYLD

[O-S p.247]

een gouden schild, waarop Askars gedaante kunstig was afgebeeld

a golden shield on which Askar' s portrait was artistically represented

22 [205/15] Askar

KIRT AFTER THÀT ÁSKAR MITH FRÉTHO.GUNSTA BOSTIGJATH WAS

WÀRTH THÉR TO STÁVEREN ÉNE SCHERKE BVWED.

INNA THJU SCHERKE WRDON TJODA DROCHTEN LÍKANDA BYLDON STALTH.

MITH GOLD TRVCH WROCHTNE KLÁTHAR.

ÁK IS ER BIWÉRATH HAT ÁSKAR THÉR NACHTIS ÀND VNTÍDIS

MITH FRÉTHO.GUNSTA FÁR NITHER BUWGADE

[O-S p.247]

Kort nadat Askar met Frethogunsta getrouwd was,

werd er te Staveren eene kerk gebouwd;

in de kerk werden booze gedrochtelijke beelden gesteld,

met goud doorwevene kleederen.

Ook is er beweerd dat Askar bij nacht en bij ontijde

met Frethogunsta zich daar voor nederboog.

Soon after Askar had married Frethogunsta,

a church was built at Staveren.

In the church were placed monstrous ['idol-like'] images,

bedecked with goldwoven dresses.

It is also said that Askar, by night, and at unseasonable times,

kneeled to them with Frethogunsta

Edited October 2, 2013 by gestur

[The Puzzler]

Interesting, just to break it down some more for understanding...

The word byld in all forms seems to refer to BUILD/construct which of course, all statues etc are - constructs. A SINNEBYLD would equate to a sinful/bad-construct ie; (in context) bad statue or monstrous idol.

denkbeelden - dutch

thoughts, ideas ('think-images') - English

think-construct ie; idea

build (v.) late Old English byldan "construct a house," http://www.etymonlin....php?term=build

I'm not sure about the 'bold' connection mentioned there and fail to really see how it could be.

Here we have 'bod' as house in Swedish. This appears to go back to wood or even body (like purse, bud, a containment type thing) rather than be related to construct/byld or bold.

A building would be a construct but this imo does not mean bodel is connected (no L).

Swedish

Noun

bod c

1. a shed, a shack, a small building
   
2. a shop, a boutique
   

Edited October 2, 2013 by The Puzzler

[Ott]

Fasten your seatbelts.

The word byld in all forms seems to refer to BUILD/construct which of course, all statues etc are - constructs.

Yes, it seems likely that the oldfrisian (and dutch-german) BILD / BYLD (image, statue) is somehow related to late Old English byldan (to construct a house):

etymonline.com/ build (verb):

late Old English byldan "construct a house," verb form of bold "house," [...] (cf. Old Saxon bodl, Old Frisian bodel "building, house") [...]

A SINNEBYLD would equate to a sinful/bad-construct ie; (in context) bad statue or monstrous idol.

The english word "sin" (dutch: zonde / german: sünde) may be related indirectly to the oldfrisian (and dutch-german) SINNE (zin, sinn), but more direct meanings are various other:

(from german-english dictionary:)

sinn = sense, meaning, point, appreciation, inclination

sinnbild = symbol

sinnen (verb) = to brood, ponder, reflect, devise, plot

sinnlich = sexual, carnal, sensual, sensuous, sensory

sinnlos = senseless, meaningless

etc.

In german-dutch dictionary:

sinn = zin, zintuig, geest, aard, gevoel, begrip, betekenis, gedachte

(= sense, spirit, nature, feeling, understanding, meaning, thought)

Apart from the three fragments that I already gave with varieties of SINNEBYLD, there are four other fragments with SINN:

[021/] warlaws

EK FRYA.S MOT.A LÉTHA JEFTHA FÍANDA WÉRA.

MITH ALDULKERA WÀPNE AS.ER FORSINNA BIKVMA ÀND HÁNDTÉRA MÉI.

[O-S p.33]

Elke Fries moet de beleedigers of vijanden afweren,

met al zulke wapenen, als hij verzinnen, bekomen en hanteren mag.

Every Frisian must resist the assailants [or enemies]

with such weapons as he can procure, invent [think up, dream up], and use.

[022/] warlaws

THÉRA THAM STRIDA MITHA WÀPNE AN HJARA HANDA

NE KUNNATH NAVT FORSINNA ÀND WIS BILÍWA.

HERVMBE NE FOCHTETH NÉNE KÉNING WÀPNE TO HANTERA AN THA STRID.

SIN WISDOM MOT SIN WÀPEN WÉSA

ÀND THJU LJAFTE SINRA KÀMPONA MOT SIN SKÍLD WÉSA.

[O-S p.35]

Die welke strijden met de wapenen in hunne handen,

kunnen niets verzinnen en wijs blijven,

daarom voegt het geen koning wapenen te hanteren in den strijd.

Zijne wijsheid moet zijn wapen wezen

en de liefde zijner krijgslieden moet zijn schild wezen.

Those who fight with arms [weapons in their hands]

are not men of counsel [can not think up/ dream up and stay wise],

therefore no king must bear arms [in battle].

His wisdom must be his weapon,

and the love of his warriors his shield.

[103/] other formlere

HÉDE WR.ALDA VS NÉNE SINNA JÉVEN SA NE SKOLDE WY NARNE OF NÉTA

[O-S p.143]

Had Wralda ons geene zintuigen [:zinnen] gegeven, zoo zouden wij nergens van weten

If Wr-alda had given us no organs [senses], we should have known nothing

[126/] Friso

AS HJU T.US KÉM WARTH HJU WAN.SINNICH.

[O-S p.173]

Toen zij thuis kwam werd zij waanzinnig

When she came home she was out of her mind [became delusional, 'vainsensed']

###

Now look at the oldschool etymology of "symbol":

etymonline.com/symbol:

[...] from Greek symbolon "token, watchword" [...], literally "that which is thrown or cast together," from syn- "together" [...] + bole "a throwing, a casting, the stroke of a missile, bolt, beam," from bol-, nominative stem of ballein "to throw"

How much sense does this make!?

None at all.

But the oldfrisian/ 'old-NW-european' etymology does:

SIN, SINNE, SINNA = sense, meaning, mind, etc.

BYLD, BOLD, BODEL = image, building, etc.

symbol = meaning-image, mind-building

[Van Gorp]

Interesting, just to break it down some more for understanding...

The word byld in all forms seems to refer to BUILD/construct which of course, all statues etc are - constructs. A SINNEBYLD would equate to a sinful/bad-construct ie; (in context) bad statue or monstrous idol.

denkbeelden - dutch

thoughts, ideas ('think-images') - English

think-construct ie; idea

build (v.) late Old English byldan "construct a house," http://www.etymonlin....php?term=build

I'm not sure about the 'bold' connection mentioned there and fail to really see how it could be.

Here we have 'bod' as house in Swedish. This appears to go back to wood or even body (like purse, bud, a containment type thing) rather than be related to construct/byld or bold.

A building would be a construct but this imo does not mean bodel is connected (no L).

Swedish

Noun

bod c

1. a shed, a shack, a small building
   
2. a shop, a boutique
   

Ah, wonderfull language! Nice input Gestur & Puzzler :-)

'Byld' as 'Beeld' (statue) for me seems to have a connection with ge'beiteld' (chiseld).

Because beitelen is the diminutive of bijten.

To form a statue you take small bites untill the picture is there.

Building is fix and steady, gebeiteld en gebouwd (bouwen is be-houwen -> houwen als in beeld-houwen).

Like a smith likes to smite, it all has to do with hitting (the aam-beeld), having impact and (re)construction.

Boutique is the diminutive of bode (bode-ke, bouwdeke, klein gebouw), small house (kraam, booth).

Good example how also the french language owes much to Diets (same as mannequin is manne-ken, small man or representation to try clothes on in the earlier days of textile manufacturing).

As with 'moder' also used for mama's in a later stage, 'beeld' used as 'image' tout court can be a later meaning that does not relate any more for the full 100% to the original litteraly meaning.

Though, were it the Magyars who began worshipping images that led to superstition (or is this just imaginary ???)

An image or representation is not always chiseld or carved anymore.

Imago (In me geheugen): that's the way other things are represented in our mind (geheugen, ge-houw-eigen).

[The Puzzler]

OK gestur, I can stick with Swedish as that was my original thought, that the language is somehow very similar to Swedish, early Nordic, since that seems to be where Fryans may have originated and moved south.

Who recalls my ideas on svn? Rather than son, being relative to sven. "The name itself is Old Norse for "Young man" or "Young warrior".http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sven

"Okke, my young man."

The whole sinne thing is then reminding me of the word sign, like symbol.

Edited October 3, 2013 by The Puzzler

[Ott]

Recap of all OLB-words and -fragments (I found some more) with SIN (sense, meaning, understanding, etc.) and some new translations.

(Note: the much more commonly used and same-spelled "SIN" means "his" or "her" => dutch "zijn", german "sein", not to be confused with the verb "to be".)

### Words and spelling variety

SIN (noun, singular) - 3,5,12

zin - dutch

sinn - german

sense, meaning - english

SINNA (noun, plural) - 11

zinnen, zintuigen - dutch

sinnen - german

senses - english

SINTUGA (noun, plural) - 10

zintuigen - dutch

senses - english

FORSINNA (verb) - 1,2

FORSINA - 7

verzinnen - dutch

'fore-sense', invent, think-up, dream-up - english

NAVT NE SINDE (verb, past, sing.) - 9

niet zinde - dutch

did not please, appeal (?) - english

SINNA.BYLD - 4

SINE.BYLD - 6

SINNE BILD - 8

sinnbild - german

zinnebeeld - dutch

'sense-build', symbol - english

WAN.SINNICH - 13

waanzinnig - dutch

wahnsinnig - german

'vain-sensed', delusional - english

### Fragments

1 [021/] warlaws

WÀPNE AS.ER FORSINNA [...] MÉI

weapons as he can 'foresense' (invent)

2 [022/32] warlaws

THÉRA [...] NE KUNNATH NAVT FORSINNA

Those [...] can not 'fore-sense' (invent)

3 [032/10] Minno

ÁK IS.ER JET.EN ORA SIN AN FÀST

there is also yet another meaning attached to it

4 [032/21] Minno

THET ORA SINNA.BYLD FON WR.ALDA.S GÁST

the other (second) 'sense-build' (symbol) of Wr-alda's ghost (spirit)

5 [033/] Minno

THÉR ORDÉLTH MÀN NÉI THA SIN

THÉR WR.ALDA.S GÁST AN VS KÉTH

There one ordeals in the sense

that Wralda's ghost (spirit) speaks to us

6 [034/] Minerva

THAT SINE.BYLD FON FRYA.S RÉD.JÉVINGA

the 'sense-build' (symbol) of Frya's 'advise-givings' (counsels)

7 [035/] Minerva

RENKA TO FORSINA

to 'foresense' (invent) tricks

8 [045/04] the Jol

THÀT FORMA SINNE BILD WR.ALDA.S

the first 'sense-build' (symbol) of Wr-alda

9 [055/] Wodin

RJU FÉLO STJURAR ÀND LAND WÉRAR

THAM THISSE KÉR NAVT NE SINDE

Very many navigators and landwarriors,

whom this choice did not please (or appeal?)

10 [103/] other formlere

THA WR.ALDA VS SKOP HETHER VS IN THRVCH SINE WISHÉD.

BRYN. SINTUGA. HÜGJA ÀND FÉLO GODA AINSKIPA LÉNAD

When Wralda created us, he granted us in-through his wisdom

brain, senses, memory and many good attributes

11 [103/] other formlere

HÉDE WR.ALDA VS NÉNE SINNA JÉVEN

SA NE SKOLDE WY NARNE OF NÉTA

Had Wr-alda not given us senses,

we would know of nothing

12 [117/] Frethorik - Gosa

HEL FON HAWED ÀND KLÁR FON SIN

Light (bright, enlightened) of head and clear of sense(s)

13 [126/] Friso

AS HJU T.US KÉM WARTH HJU WAN.SINNICH.

When she came home she became 'vain-sensed' (delusional)

Edited October 3, 2013 by gestur

[The Puzzler]

forsinna is in the Frisian dictionary:

forasinn 1 und häufiger, fōrsinn, for-a-sin-n, fōr-sin-n, afries., st. M. (a): nhd. Vorsatz; ne. intenion;

http://www.koeblerge...s/afries_f.html

Since intenion is not a word, I think a typo is made as it means 'intention' - so fore-sense or foremind=intention ;ie; foresee = that which he 'intends' or thinks he might need or use/intended to use

1 [021/] warlaws

WÀPNE AS.ER FORSINNA [...] MÉI

weapons as he can 'foresense' (invent)

2 [022/32] warlaws

THÉRA [...] NE KUNNATH NAVT FORSINNA

Those [...] can not 'fore-sense' (invent)

weapons as he (foresaw was necessary) foresaw being past tense of fore-see

Edited October 3, 2013 by The Puzzler

[The Puzzler]

(siune) siūne 31, siōne, sivene, siū-ne, siō-ne, siv-ene, afries., st. F. (i): nhd. Sehen, Sehvermögen; ne. sight

forasinna - foresight - see above post

Seems siune and sinne may be same word - almost or at least connected or that sinn/sinne/sinna may be slightly different variations and not all just sinn 23, sin-n, sin (2), afries., st. M. (a): nhd. Sinn, Bewusstsein, Verstand; ne. sense (N.), mind

(siunelik) siūnlik 1 und häufiger, siū-n-lik, afries., Adj.: nhd. sichtbar; ne. visible

seen-like

It is these very basic concepts that create the actual word that makes me think the Frisian words are very early words. Basque is similar, the make up of the word harks back to very early use. ie; ilargi=kill the light (new moon) = the word Month. Each new moon indicated a new month.

Edited October 3, 2013 by The Puzzler

[Abramelin]

I understand that, in your conditions, it is very hard to concentrate and think clearly.

But I suggest you move this irrelevant attention-seeking scit-scat to a social networking site like Faecbook.

You are no one else but Otharus, so finally cut the crap,ok?

Facebook is not my thing, btw.

(Maybe you should try a text editor next time you post something; check your post....)

I may now have trouble adding to this thread, but I found out nothing 'shocking' or revealing showed up during my absence, and I am quite sure it won't for a long time.

Edited October 5, 2013 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

OK gestur, I can stick with Swedish as that was my original thought, that the language is somehow very similar to Swedish, early Nordic, since that seems to be where Fryans may have originated and moved south.

Who recalls my ideas on svn? Rather than son, being relative to sven. "The name itself is Old Norse for "Young man" or "Young warrior".http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sven

"Okke, my young man."

The whole sinne thing is then reminding me of the word sign, like symbol.

You really think that is what a mother says to her son, "my young man"?

[Abramelin]

The translation is not the problem, but the interpretation like byldon = beelden (statues) or afbeeldingen (pictures). In fact here we deal with the biblical word that christians should not make false statues/pictures of God, because that was done by the pagans. The OLB contains many words/expressions which refer to modern christianity in a pre-christian celtic time. As for the translation it would be better to rely on the mid 19th c. Dutch language and/or Frisian expressions. Some of them are obsolete now.

The OLB has many hints to the Bible, as you know we have shown before.

And about that "pre-Christian Celtic time"... that's what Overwijn's book about the OLB is all about: he explains many words and expressions from the OLB using his 'knowledge' of Celtic languages.

Just today I read his explanation (using Celtic, in this case Breton)) of that name that keeps bugging me: Lumkamakia.

His explanation comes down to it meaning "Strawland", and he locates it north of Emden (see page 22c)

[The Puzzler]

You really think that is what a mother says to her son, "my young man"?

Yes, I have a 7 year old son and I call him my young man, or my little man all the time.

More to the point that part is written by Hiddo, who I'd think is a man and I'd find that an even more likely term for a father to call his son back in 1256 - especially when addressing them in the manner it has been used.

Edited October 6, 2013 by The Puzzler

[Ott]

(Maybe you should try a text editor next time you post something; check your post....)

"scit-scat ... Faecbook"

You have no eye for detail.

[The Puzzler]

"scit-scat ... Faecbook"

You have no eye for detail.

hahaha I'll pay that one.

[Abramelin]

Yes, I have a 7 year old son and I call him my young man, or my little man all the time.

More to the point that part is written by Hiddo, who I'd think is a man and I'd find that an even more likely term for a father to call his son back in 1256 - especially when addressing them in the manner it has been used.

The name is "Hidde", not "Hiddo", and it is a woman's name.

Skrêven to Ljuwert. Nêi âtland svnken is thaet thria thû sond fjvwer hvndred aend njugon aend fjvwertigoste jêr, thaet is nei kersten rêknong that tvelfhvndred sex aend fiftigoste jêr. Hidde tobinomath oera Linda. - Wâk.

http://oeralinda.webs.com/oera-linda-book#1

.

Edited October 7, 2013 by Abramelin

[Abramelin]

"scit-scat ... Faecbook"

You have no eye for detail.

I do, that's why I think you are Otharus, or he is watching over your shoulder while you post.

[The Puzzler]

The name is "Hidde", not "Hiddo", and it is a woman's name.

Skrêven to Ljuwert. Nêi âtland svnken is thaet thria thû sond fjvwer hvndred aend njugon aend fjvwertigoste jêr, thaet is nei kersten rêknong that tvelfhvndred sex aend fiftigoste jêr. Hidde tobinomath oera Linda. - Wâk.

http://oeralinda.web...ra-linda-book#1

.

Not necessarily:

Hidde

Gender: Boy;

Dutch (or better Fries) name, meaning fighter, one who is ready to fight

http://www.babycente...idde-646235.htm

The whole paragraph seems to have been written by the father: so "she" saved him and his mother (who was Hidde then I wonder, the aunty or grandma...?) - I've always expected that to mean it was the father who saved him and his mother, who was Hidde's wife.

Still, like I said, it's a term I don't think is that uncommon for a father or a mother, using it myself on numerous occasions.

Last year I saved them in the flood, as well as you and your mother; but they got wet, and therefore began to perish. In order not to lose them, I copied them on foreign paper.

Edited post.

Edited October 7, 2013 by The Puzzler