The disappearance of Ray Gricar

[Vincennes]

LW - You know this makes me realize one thing. These statements have been tailored to make RG look badly every chance they had. I was running over that Clerk's statement re. Ray seeming "anxious" that day and just looking at the bookshelves. Reads he was pretty uninvolved right. You know and I know that Clerk knew every darn thing that was going on in the matter and she/he (whatever) knew Ray was angry. Then purposefully tailored what was said. It would also seem to me this was a pretty united front on the part of the courthouse club which really doesn't surprise me either. WOW

[Star1110shine]

She

I was going to ask if Patty ever hired an attorney but I guess that wouldn't be needed since she working in the District Attorney office and could seek advice there.

Oh she got one and that's all I can say.

[lw-intuit]

LW - You know this makes me realize one thing. These statements have been tailored to make RG look badly every chance they had. I was running over that Clerk's statement re. Ray seeming "anxious" that day and just looking at the bookshelves. Reads he was pretty uninvolved right. You know and I know that Clerk knew every darn thing that was going on in the matter and she/he (whatever) knew Ray was angry. Then purposefully tailored what was said. It would also seem to me this was a pretty united front on the part of the courthouse club which really doesn't surprise me either. WOW

In complete agreement here.............IMO, the investigation went south as a result of the unified front.

The 'lead detective' and the media didn't interview anyone who might shed some light on what was actually going on at the time. The entire investigation has been about 'diversion'. It is interesting that here on the new board, that diversion is the first thing all noticed. It was chocked up to RG's being the one who was 'diverting', but IMO, it is the unified front that has controlled from the git-go so that all attention remains focused on 'naps', 'mystery women', 'flirting' and 'underwear'. As I said before, it is a match for the JLuna case -------diverted away from 'job-related' or 'mob-related' to victim's supposed character defects, none of which are proven nor do they add up either in evidence or with those closest to them.

JMO

[Vincennes]

That makes me certain I was right thinking what a stupid statement that LEZ had made regarding the "mechanism" of the dam destroying the body.

Z was standing there at the parking lot where they had found Ray's car looking across at 3 bridges. (At least one of those bridges isn't even used) All of which offered a place from which Ray could "jump." and he determines that, "No, Ray walked down a mile or more to the park....jumped in there, where there is no bridge, jumped right into the river from the bank."

IMO that means anyone truly wanting to find Ray's body should have immediately followed the river downstream from his car about 10 miles, turned right for another 10 miles and looked in whatever field is there.

[lw-intuit]

I would like to add that each of us veterans seem to have put the puzzle pieces together differently, since we all seem to have a different 'most likely' theory.

We have all taken the puzzle pieces and shook them every which way possible to see if we could come up with a new angle/slant that would bring all the pieces together.

I have always believed that the reason for the disappearance would be found by determining who had the most to gain. I certainly didn't see it as being RG since from what I see, his is all about loss.............loss of relationship, family connections, monies, pension, planned retirement. I also didn't see PF as gaining anything that she didn't already have. None of the family members benefited to any huge extent that I am aware of so no other choice for me but to look outside the inner circle.

Others have put the pieces together different than I have, and while we may not be in agreement on theory, we continue to look together collectively for any new angle/slant that we might have overlooked.

My point is............Without more evidence than that which we currently are aware of, it's still only 'theory'. No one has to agree with anyone elses.

JMO

[lw-intuit]

Just before our last board was shut down, the discussion of LanceM came up and the new house he was building. I had looked at it's close proximity to JS as well as the possibility that some 'misbehavior' on LM's part had been reported to RG. I questioned whether it was possible RG was on his way to the new home site of LM's to discuss something. One thing I didn't think to factor in until now was the possibility that it was AVM related considering LM was the one working on the case with RG.

I have always thought this case was about betrayal at some level, whether it was inadvertent, such as 'slipping in conversation' and letting someone know that without RG, the case would be different. IF RG put any new information on the laptop, might he have handed the laptop over to LM before something else occurred? Was the call to PF possibly after a visit to the new home site or even old home site, wherever that was? I continue to think the call was a 'marker' to indicate location where a problem arose, and I am staying with that thought. Did RG decide to go for a ride after he went somewhere first with the laptop?

Guess the first question that needs answered is was LM working at the courthouse that day? If not, where?

JMO

[simplybill]

I questioned whether it was possible RG was on his way to the new home site of LM's to discuss something...

I have always thought this case was about betrayal at some level....

Guess the first question that needs answered is was LM working at the courthouse that day?

I don't want to point fingers, but maybe Ray is buried under LM's foundation. Does LM smoke?

I think you raised a good point in #605 post above: many posters have a favorite theory. I wonder if it's possible to see where the different theories intersect? It would be a cumbersome task on a forum like this, unless an organized effort was made.

lw - you also said: "no other choice for me but to look outside the inner circle."

Supposing we go outside THIS inner circle?

I haven't yet thought this out too deeply, but would anyone be interested in compiling a list of questions and suggestions to send to Matt Rickard? And if so, would you also be interested in sending the list to a reliable journalist? I know Sara Ganim isn't too popular here, but she does write a good story.

Edited October 9, 2013 by simplybill

[Vincennes]

The reason something happened is one thing but still, to me, there would be a telling factor in who it was by figuring out who had the ability to coordinate the misinformation. There is someone who had a very strong hand to be able to accomplish that.

[+susieice]

Exactly my point. Purchasing the erasing software is much more like the character of RG then tossing them in the river.

Why would anyone dissect a computer, destroy the hard drive and throw it all in the river to destroy evidence of a case that had already gone to trial?

[Vincennes]

It doesn't make any sense to me at all that RG was so committed to a death penalty case for AVM if it wasn't solid. Why would he go to that much work just months before he would be retiring. And, why would he want to look badly by losing it just before he went out of office? Why would the judge be so committed to screwing Ray up on it that he was setting the date for a time that would put Ray at a disadvantage to be there. There had to be something that made that a solid case. Was the judge throwing it into someone else's hands so that the outcome could be better controlled ?

[lw-intuit]

Why would anyone dissect a computer, destroy the hard drive and throw it all in the river to destroy evidence of a case that had already gone to trial?

To misdirect...........to keep the focus on that area in Lewisburg thus avoiding any backtracking to Centre County.

JMO

[simplybill]

Susieice:

I agree. Also, what would be the point of Ray throwing the laptop in the river? He could have thrown the hard drive in the river, bought a new hard drive and left it at that.

Maybe someone else had used the laptop, and was concerned about the keyboard being covered in fingerprints.

[lw-intuit]

It doesn't make any sense to me at all that RG was so committed to a death penalty case for AVM if it wasn't solid. Why would he go to that much work just months before he would be retiring. And, why would he want to look badly by losing it just before he went out of office? Why would the judge be so committed to screwing Ray up on it that he was setting the date for a time that would put Ray at a disadvantage to be there. There had to be something that made that a solid case. Was the judge throwing it into someone else's hands so that the outcome could be better controlled ?

I think RG's evidence would have proved it solid and that he was capable of presenting it to a jury and winning the case. I think that was someone's biggest fear. Even if it didn't result in the death penalty, if the neighboring county's decision was any indication of what a local jury could hand down, I believe in that case it was 30 years in prison.

JMO

[Star1110shine]

Oh, for crying out loud, we're talking about a laptop!

It follows that Gricar learned that erasing wasn't sufficient and he wanted assurance that whatever was on the hard drive could never be discovered.

You and I do not know Ray enough to assume what assurance he needed.

[Regi]

You and I do not know Ray enough to assume what assurance he needed.

I'm not sure you got the gist of what I said. I said it follows. You know, it's a 2+2 kind of thing.

[Vincennes]

I think RG's evidence would have proved it solid and that he was capable of presenting it to a jury and winning the case. I think that was someone's biggest fear. Even if it didn't result in the death penalty, if the neighboring county's decision was any indication of what a local jury could hand down, I believe in that case it was 30 years in prison.

JMO

Nothing else except this makes any sense at all. I think the fact that he did have a winning case to present needs to be accepted as the basis of what set up the reactions of all the other players.

[Vincennes]

I'm not sure you got the gist of what I said. I said it follows. You know, it's a 2+2 kind of thing.

I'm really sorry but I think with all of the herrings of misdirection we have determined are out there. None of this is a 2 + 2 thing. . Because a lot of what first might look like a 2 has really been purposefully planted there upside down.

[simplybill]

lw-intuit:

I've been giving this some thought:

"I questioned whether it was possible RG was on his way to the new home site of LM's to discuss something...

I have always thought this case was about betrayal at some level....

Guess the first question that needs answered is was LM working at the courthouse that day?"

I picked those comments out of your post because I see them as "projections" coming from your intuition or subconscious or whatever. If Ray did indeed go to the construction site, do you also feel it could tie in with the "man dressed like a construction worker" who was seen by witnesses leaning into Ray's car at the SOS? That possibly LM or someone else may have murdered Ray at the construction site, then he and a construction worker who smoked drove two cars to the SOS, ditched Ray's car, and afterwords went through the laptop at their leisure, disposing of it in the river at a later date?

Please bear with me, I'm trying to find some intersections here.

[lw-intuit]

lw-intuit:

I've been giving this some thought:

"I questioned whether it was possible RG was on his way to the new home site of LM's to discuss something...

I have always thought this case was about betrayal at some level....

Guess the first question that needs answered is was LM working at the courthouse that day?"

I picked those comments out of your post because I see them as "projections" coming from your intuition or subconscious or whatever. If Ray did indeed go to the construction site, do you also feel it could tie in with the "man dressed like a construction worker" who was seen by witnesses leaning into Ray's car at the SOS? That possibly LM or someone else may have murdered Ray at the construction site, then he and a construction worker who smoked drove two cars to the SOS, ditched Ray's car, and afterwords went through the laptop at their leisure, disposing of it in the river at a later date?

Please bear with me, I'm trying to find some intersections here.

I don't think LM capable of doing so. Now IF there might have been some construction people on site who really weren't construction people at all but rather posing as such, possibly even unknown to LM, then I think anything is possible. IF RG was followed that day, and he went to the construction site, then I guess a confrontation could have occurred there, but doubtful, IMO.

JMO

[lw-intuit]

Nothing else except this makes any sense at all. I think the fact that he did have a winning case to present needs to be accepted as the basis of what set up the reactions of all the other players.

I am wondering if the move to schedule the case when RG would not be there was a move to protect RG from something that was already known, a protective move, one that RG possibly didn't think was necessary or wasn't taking seriously enough but others were. Possibly that's what had RG 'out of sorts'.

JMO

[Vincennes]

I am wondering if the move to schedule the case when RG would not be there was a move to protect RG from something that was already known, a protective move, one that RG possibly didn't think was necessary or wasn't taking seriously enough but others were. Possibly that's what had RG 'out of sorts'.

JMO

My first thought regarding this was that it would certainly be possible. However, I'm basing my feelings back to the Clerk's statement. I can't view what she said in any positive light at all. Out of all of the possible misdirection that one is IMO a purposeful negative toward RG. I would also have to think the Clerk would be inclined follow the judge's lead.

[simplybill]

I don't think LM capable of doing so. Now IF there might have been some construction people on site who really weren't construction people at all but rather posing as such, possibly even unknown to LM, then I think anything is possible. IF RG was followed that day, and he went to the construction site, then I guess a confrontation could have occurred there, but doubtful, IMO.

JMO

OK thanks. I figured I was kind of stretching on that one! LOL

I'm testing out my "crime of opportunity" scenario at this point: Ray crossed paths with the neighborhood meth-head in Lewisburg and got mugged, murdered, buried. Meth-head ditches the car, can't sell a laptop with the Centre County DAs office emblem on it, so he tosses it in the river.

Since I'm new to this, I'm starting with the simplest solutions first.

I REALLY appreciate all the input from you veterans!

Edited October 9, 2013 by simplybill

[SuperSmith]

She

Oh she got one and that's all I can say.

Star, I cannot fathom that is all you can say.

[SuperSmith]

lw-intuit, you have been on a roll since coming onto this site. A change of venue has suited you well. Keep up the great thinking!!! Your post are most intriguing.

Edited October 9, 2013 by SuperSmith

[lw-intuit]

lw-intuit:

I've been giving this some thought:

"I questioned whether it was possible RG was on his way to the new home site of LM's to discuss something...

I have always thought this case was about betrayal at some level....

Guess the first question that needs answered is was LM working at the courthouse that day?"

I picked those comments out of your post because I see them as "projections" coming from your intuition or subconscious or whatever. If Ray did indeed go to the construction site, do you also feel it could tie in with the "man dressed like a construction worker" who was seen by witnesses leaning into Ray's car at the SOS? That possibly LM or someone else may have murdered Ray at the construction site, then he and a construction worker who smoked drove two cars to the SOS, ditched Ray's car, and afterwords went through the laptop at their leisure, disposing of it in the river at a later date?

Please bear with me, I'm trying to find some intersections here.

Going back to the 'construction' worker said to be leaning into the Mini.................

was that supposedly at the SOS lot, or is that the one said to be on route 80 before the route 147 exit, where it was stated that the Mini was supposedly being followed and the Mini was speeding up and slowing down............then off to the side of the road, where construction worker type was leaning into the car, after which the Mini then took off and exited, IIRC, onto route 147 toward Milton................

.I was never certain whether this was a sighting of someone said to have been seen driving the Mini with vehicle following, construction type worker leaning in to talk to driver, possibly the one reported by the truck driver on route 80, or if this was based on one of CB's visions. I don't recall a time of day ever being given for this, but would be interested in knowing how close in time this was to the time of quarry sighting, (end of day, 4-4:30 p.m.-ish), and the sighting of the Mini arriving at the SOS around 5 p.m.

Is it possible it was the same 'construction worker type' seen in both places? On route 80 by truck driver and then again in SOS lot? It has always seemed to me that possibly the 'construction worker type' may have been the one instructing the driver in so far as what exit to take, where to park, (I recall reading early on reports that the Mini was said to have been moved from lot to lot for some reason), and what condition the car should be left in........cell phone left, water bottle left, doors locked, keys not left behind, etc.)

All just theory since as with every other piece of information regarding the disappearance, we are given any number of versions to choose from, when in fact, the truth alone would suffice.

JMO