sheriff's shoot 13 year old

[Frank Merton]

It strikes me that guns as toys is a bad message to send kids.

[Heru]

Most kid guns that are meant to look realistic have a bright orange end on the barrel. And is there a recording of the cops telling him to drop the weapon... Dont they all have cameras and audio on there cars?

Now if the kid was walking... I dont know maybe walk behind him and just take the thing. But hay what do I know lets just yell at someone who might be dangerous who has no idea of your presence. And posses no immediate threat to anyone (as in he wasn't making any threatening words or threatening actions). After all im sure a kid has a shiny ak-47 that doesn't look like a ak-47, walking along not acting unusual like hes trying to hide his presence. Same reason why those cops maced that old lady cause she was dangerous.

[+OverSword]

If pointing in the direction it will have recorded police officers shooting and killing a child carrying toy guns.

True, but regardless of the camera being pointed at the scene of violence it will also record what was said. Did the police tell him to drop the gun? How many times did they give the order? Did the child say anything, threatening or otherwise? This is all very important to determine if the police, I hate to say, were prodedurally correct in thier actions.

edit to add: My fears are

• this may not have been the best nieghborhood
  
• this kid is a minority
  
• these police decided to err on the side of caution and shoot guy walking down the street with an AK-47
  

Edited October 24, 2013 by OverSword

[travelnjones]

That's what i was saying, if they had to shoot at this kid, trying to shoot his leg to just take him down wouldn't make sense for the usual police sidearm, you'd aim for a body shot, since its a wider area and the movement of the bullet would still probably hit the target somewhere

I'm not saying i like any of this, but ryu said something about shot selection, or so i assumed so i was trying to answer it

it was a replica, so it was specifically made to look realistic.

Well except for the orange tip which all of those have.

Freetoroam: there was a time when every boy had a collection of toy guns and this would have been very normal. In some places in the country it still is. Airsoft is a hobby with growing popularity kids playing it in rural settings is sort of the norm. Santa Rosa like most of non sprawl California has plenty rural or subrural areas. Even where I live in San Jose "Heart of the Silicon Valley" is on the edge of the city , we have deer and wild turkey by our house. there is even a sign warning of coyote at the park down the street. We have an archery range near us so kids on bikes with a bow and arrows is not an uncommon sight.

[supervike]

Given other 'dash cam' incidents. We'll probably never actually get to see or hear it. The cops seem awfully possesive of those things, unless it protrays them in a good light.

Or, it also seems that they are held up for 'court reasons' and by the time anyone sees it, it's only the family that cares anymore.

[willowdreams]

i have not checked up on this online yet or read all the posts, but i will say this.

Yes, I feel sorry for the family, it is indeed sad, HOWEVER I feel sorry for the police as well. This is most likely not easy on them.

IF they told the child to drop the gun, then the gun should have been dropped. Are there bad cops? Yes, but I seriously doubt all cops are bad. We still call 911 when we need help for robberies and such.

The fact that they said to drop it and the child did not, makes me question why the child did not, usually if a child (yes child) is that unresponsive to police/authority, it is for a reason, usually they are not as good of a kid as we want to believe a 13 yr old should be.

I also put the blame on parents. When I was 13, MY family knew where my butt was. They also made sure that by the time I was that age, I knew better than to disobey police like that. Heck I once mouthed off to and adult and got a switching for it!

Parents need to be more in control. Children should never be excused for misbehavior. No 'oh buts'.. nope.. you do wrong, you get consequenses

I will say this. I wonder why the cops did not shoot the child in the shoulder, arm.. leg.. have backup behind the child to a point so child could be shot in the leg, when falling, cops on top of child.

Might have been bad, but not dead.

I would like to hear the rest of the story.

[+OverSword]

This additional info from the Daily Mail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2474903/Boy-13-carrying-toy-gun-shot-dead-cops-AFTER-hit-ground.html

• The cops say he had his back to them so they didn't know how young he was
  

So if his back was to them why did they open fire?

• Witness says after he was on the ground the police continued to fire 6 more bullets into his body
  

If you're gonna put a bullet in some one I guess you better make sure you do it right

[Sweetpumper]

Local news station KRON 4 uploaded a picture of the toy rifle the the 13-year-old boy who was shot had compared with a real AK47

[RaptorBites]

Walking down the street carrying a replica AK47 with no orange tip.

As sad as it is, the kid was a victim of his own misfortune.

Now, as far as the only witness to come forward and claim the kid was shot an additional 6-7 times when on the floor, guess that can only be confirmed after the coroner releases his findings.

I'd reserve judgment till all the facts come out instead of jumping to conclusions.

[+OverSword]

To me this isn't about how real the gun looked, and it looked very real. It's about whether the police followed proper steps before firing. Obviously if his back was to them, as they apparently have stated they gave the warning to drop the gun and fired at the same time. Additionally if his back was to them he could not have been pointing the rifle at them.

[DecoNoir]

Local news station KRON 4 uploaded a picture of the toy rifle the the 13-year-old boy who was shot had compared with a real AK47

Absolutely no way to tell that's a replica, even to a gun nut like me. I wouldn't blame anyone for thinking that was real.

[Professor Buzzkill]

Walking down the street carrying a replica AK47 with no orange tip.

As sad as it is, the kid was a victim of his own misfortune.

Now, as far as the only witness to come forward and claim the kid was shot an additional 6-7 times when on the floor, guess that can only be confirmed after the coroner releases his findings.

I'd reserve judgment till all the facts come out instead of jumping to conclusions.

Is that against the law?

[RaptorBites]

Is that against the law?

Carrying a replica assault rifle with no orange tip?

Does it matter if its legal or not?

[rashore]

Here's another news story on this... http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/national/dozens-march-remember-boy-killed-deputies/nbXW9/

[RaptorBites]

To me this isn't about how real the gun looked, and it looked very real. It's about whether the police followed proper steps before firing. Obviously if his back was to them, as they apparently have stated they gave the warning to drop the gun and fired at the same time. Additionally if his back was to them he could not have been pointing the rifle at them.

Might want to read your own source before making assumptions.

Police also revealed that Lopez had his back to the deputies, so they didn't realize he was so young. He was wearing a hooded sweatshirt and shorts.

They claim Lopez was about 20 to 30 feet from them when he turned with the barrel of the gun pointing toward them and they opened fire because they feared for their lives.

‘The deputy then fired several rounds from his service weapon at the subject,’ said Santa Rosa Police Lt. Paul Henry, ‘striking him at least one time. The subject immediately fell to the ground.’

'The deputy's mindset was that he was fearful that he was going to be shot

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2474903/Boy-13-carrying-toy-gun-shot-dead-cops-AFTER-hit-ground.html#ixzz2ifRxIf71

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[Professor Buzzkill]

Carrying a replica assault rifle with no orange tip?

Does it matter if its legal or not?

Is carrying a real assault rifle against the law? Why does carrying a gun automatically mean that you can be shot by law enforcement whether or not you are breaking the law? Surely law enforcement should care about the law

[DecoNoir]

Is that against the law?

Yes.

[RaptorBites]

Is carrying a real assault rifle against the law? Why does carrying a gun automatically mean that you can be shot by law enforcement whether or not you are breaking the law? Surely law enforcement should care about the law

In California? Walking down the street?

Yes!

Read the article both rashore and oversword posted.

The report said, the kid turned and faced the officers gun pointed at them. If that is the case then the LEO had every right to fire.

Now, does this mean that just because its on the report it must be true? No it does not. Does this mean the officers had the right to continually fire on someone who was already on the ground? No it does not.

At this point, I am reserving judgment.

[aztek]

If you're gonna put a bullet in some one I guess you better make sure you do it right

dead man don't sue, and don't speak

[aztek]

Carrying a replica assault rifle with no orange tip?

Does it matter if its legal or not?

in some states it is legal to carry real assault rifles.

[pallidin]

Whatever happened to "bean bag shotgun loads", rubber bullets or tear gas to non-lethally take-down a suspect.

Granted, that toy gun may have looked real at a distance, and the lack of response to "put it down" may have encouraged the police to act in a public safety manner.

If it were real, and the kid shot-up a few people because the police were hesitant, this would be a different story, like "The Cops Didn't Do Their Job"

Who knows. Like was said, let the facts come out.

[Sweetpumper]

Whatever happened to "bean bag shotgun loads", rubber bullets or tear gas to non-lethally take-down a suspect.

Granted, that toy gun may have looked real at a distance, and the lack of response to "put it down" may have encouraged the police to act in a public safety manner.

If it were real, and the kid shot-up a few people because the police were hesitant, this would be a different story, like "The Cops Didn't Do Their Job"

Who knows. Like was said, let the facts come out.

Well, if I see someone with an AK, I'm dropping that bean-bag shooter and pulling out my Glock.

[RaptorBites]

in some states it is legal to carry real assault rifles.

What may be true in other states doesn't mean it applies to California.

[+OverSword]

Might want to read your own source before making assumptions.

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So which was it? His back was to them or he pointed the gun at them? Only the dash cam recording will tell.

[aztek]

only if dashcam got any of it.