[Merged] Madeleine McCann

[Regi]

If you follow the Tapas 7 Jane Tanner description he went from this.

I'm confident that Tanner recalled to the best of her ability.

Indeed. Her recollection shows to have been accurate.

[skookum]

I'm confident that Tanner recalled to the best of her ability.

Indeed. Her recollection shows to have been accurate.

Sorry to come back to you regi but you seem level headed. What do you make of this statement by the Gaspers who were friends of both the McCann's and Dr Payne of Tapas 7. Came across it in the files and it was shocking reading, apparently it happened on another group holiday in Majorca.

One night, when we were on holiday, the adults, in other words, the couples that I mentioned were on a patio outside the house where we were staying. We had been eating and drinking.

I was sitting between Dave and Gerry whom I believe were both talking about Madeleine. I don't remember the conversation in its entirety, but it seemed they were discussing a possible scenario. I remember Dave telling Gerry something like ?she?, referring to Madeleine, ?would do this?.

When he mentioned ?this?, Dave was sucking on one of his fingers, pushing it in and out of his mouth, whilst with the other hand he circled his nipple, with a circulating movement over his clothes. This was done in a provocative manner there being an explicit insinuation in relation to what he was saying and doing.

I remember that I was shocked at this, and looked at Gerry, and also at Dave, to see their reactions. I looked around (page 4) to see ?did anyone else hear this, or was it just me?. There was a nervous silence noted in the conversations of all the others and immediately afterwards everyone began talking again.

I never spoke to anyone about this, but I always felt that it was something very strange and that it wasn't something that should be done or said.

Apart from this, I remember that Dave did the same thing once again. When I refer to this, I want to mention again that it was during a conversation, in which he was talking about an imaginary situation, though I could not say precisely what it was about. I believe that he was talking about his own daughter, L., though I'm not certain. He slid one of his fingers in and out of his mouth, while the other hand drew a circle around his nipple in a provocative and sexual manner. I believe that he was referring to the way that L., would behave or would do it.

I believe that he did this later on, during the holidays, but I cannot be sure. The only time, besides this one, that I was with Dave and Fiona was several weeks after the holidays, when Savio and I met up with Gerry, Kate, Dave and Fiona at a restaurant in Leicester.

I am absolutely certain that he said what he said and that he made the gestures I referred to, but that could have occurred in the restaurant in Leicester, even though (page five) I believe that it was later on, in Majorca. When I heard Dave saying and doing this a second time, I took it more seriously.

I remember thinking whether he looked at the girls in a different way from me or from the others. I imagined that maybe he had visited Internet sites related to small children. In short, I thought that he might be interested in child pornography on the internet.

During our holidays, I was more attentive at the bath times after hearing Dave saying that.

http://www.mccannfiles.com/id236.html

Edited October 17, 2013 by skookum

[Regi]

Sorry to come back to you regi but you seem level headed.

Thank you, Dear.

Thank you for your consideration of my thoughts.

What do you make of this statement by the Gaspers who were friends of both the McCann's and Dr Payne of Tapas 7.

In a nutshell, I don't find it credible.

[SilentHunter]

You can see why the Irish family thought it was Gerry. You have to admit they do look alike.

It does indeed look like Gerry. Have you been on the Mccann files website? It has all kinds of evidence such as a sniffer dog detecting that a corpse had been in the boot of a car they rented two weeks after they reported Maddie missing. I watched crimewatch on this case earlier this week. Heres my thoughts -

Burgulary - If a burgular gets caught in the act they dont abduct and murder a child. The reason is its only 1-2 years tops for burgulary not a life sentence so they dont have that much to lose if they get caught.

Paedophile - I dont buy the idea some paedophile has abducted, abused and murdered her. The reason being is criminals dont commit planned crimes on their own doorsteps they travel away to do it (to increase their chances of getting away with it). Paedophiles are opportunistic abductors and they dont go looking for their victims in the evening either (9pm - 10pm). The reason being is what young children are out at that time?

My theory is their female friend who went to stay with her sick child met up with Gerry on his first check for a bit of extra-martial shenanigans. Maddie has seen them, threatened to tell her mother, Gerry has cracked her one in the living room killing her (sniffer dog detected a corpse had been behind the chair). The body has been hidden somewhere and when they rented a car two weeks later he has put her in the boot without Katie knowing.

You can tell Katie is innocent from the crimewatch interview from her eye movements (neuro-lingustic programming) but its curious how Gerry keeps his gaze fixed straight ahead. Like he knows a psychologist with NLP training will be able to tell from his eye movements if he's lying.

[Still Waters]

Another update -

Portuguese police have reopened their inquiry into the disappearance of British girl Madeleine McCann, the public prosecutor's office has said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...europe-24655826

[SilentHunter]

Background on the case including criminal profiling, witness testomonies and police evidence - http://www.mccannfiles.com/

There seems to be a few theories on what happened to Maddie

• Parents have murdered her
  
• She had an accident while her parents were at the Tapas Bar and they are covering up her death
  
• Abducted, molested and killed by a paedophile
  
• Abducted and murdered by a burgulary who disturbed her
  
• Abducted and sold to a childless person or couple
  

Parents Murdered Her

The criminal profilers on the website all reach the conclusion that Gerry and Kate Mccann both suffer from personality disorders. This conclusion is reached by how they come across on television, the answers they gave to questions and the evidence made available to the public on the case. The profilers say that they both have narcissistic disorders and Kate is suspected as having Munchausen too. It is stressed that this doesnt confirm their guilt because another person or couple nearby could also have had personality disorders. However they do stress its highly likely the Mccanns are the guilty party. Evidence of murder is as follows -

• Sniffer dogs detected that a dead body had been in the holiday appartment
  
• Sniffer dogs detected the smell of a dead body on Kate Mccanns clothes
  
• Sniffer dogs detected the smell of a dead body on Maddies soft toy
  
• Sniffer dogs detected the smell of a dead body in the boot of a car the Mccans rented 24 days after Maddies reported disappearance
  
• DNA evidence was recovered from the car but is inconclusive because it contains DNA from three people. However it is confirmed that parts of the DNA recovered had been frozen possibly indicating Maddie had been kept in a freezer.
  
• Both parents have personality disorders.
  
• While this has been kept out of the British media a colleague of Gerry Mccann made a witness statement to British police saying he had made paedophilla comments regarding oral sex about his daughter Maddie.
  
• No evidence of forced entry into the holiday appartment exists.
  
• It has been proven that Kate Mccann lied about their being an open window in the appartment.
  
• Tapas Bar staff have given witness statements that the Mccans didnt check up on their children every 15 mins as claimed.
  
• Witness statements from their friends at the Tapas Bar dont hold up when placed under scrutiny (accounts conflict with each other).
  
• Both the Mccanns and friends repeatedly changed their statements while in police custody.
  
• No evidence exists that Maddie was even in the flat that night.
  
• The Mccanns are going to extreme lengths to manipulate the media and public figures.
  

Accident

Why go to such lengths to cover up an accident?

Paedophile or Abduction to Order

What paedophile would go abducting at 9pm to 10pm at night? Children are all in bed long before then. What paedophile or abductor would break into an appartment to steal a child? It just doesnt happen (where are past cases of this happening?) and the reason is it presents too much of a risk to them.

Burgulary Gone Wrong

Faced with the prospect of getting a warning, fine and maybe at worst a year or two in prison would a burgular abduct and murder a child? I dont think so as a life sentence compared with a maximum one or two years in prison isnt worth the risk.

My Theory

The Mccanns are dangerously narcissistic and borderline (evidence is the media attention they are generating for themselves and the way they are or answer questions during interviews). They are grandoise, dont obey social norms and arent attached to their children in the way they should be (also revealed from the answers and their behaviours during interviews). I place my bet on Maddie being a stubborn independently minded young child who refused to provide the parents with the attention and narcissistic supply they demanded. So they murdered her and dumped the body. The murder may not have happened the night its claimed that she disappeared. The freezing of her corpse (assuming thats why the DNA from the car boot had indicators of it being frozen) was to hide the real time of death should the body be discovered. I propose she was murdered a few days before her reported disappearance.

Edited October 30, 2013 by SilentHunter

[Vincennes]

Silent h, you have a well put together post. However, I have to ask where in the world would you have access to freezing a corpse in a hotel room ? The minibar? The other thing is with all those hits from the dogs, why would the parents stay there for so long after she went missing? If they wanted press, they could have gone back to England and gotten it from there without the threat of being called in daily for more questioning.

It seems to me that having spent most of the week at the resort (I think 6 days) the McCann's developed a false sense of security.

The scenario was that after having put the children to bed, they dined with friends nearby, and members of the group took turns checking in on the children every half hour.

That they methodically checked in on the children- even though they were in bed for the night- showed a certain amount of prudence which doesn't correlate with neglect.

At worst, I think the McCann's were (tragically) naive.

I was going back over the thread after the last post and I came across this one which was exactly what I was thinking. I have noticed this false sense of security in people often in vacation spots. "We are in Disneyland. What bad happens here, everyone is having a good time ? Why the locals are all friendly, helpful people."

Edited October 30, 2013 by Vincennes

[HollyDolly]

They just had about a man trying to abduct an 8 year old girl here in the states,Georgia or some place i think.The guy abducted her from her bedroom and the girl managed to cry for help and fight off her abductor,so she's alive. This sounds like it could be a neighbor or even some stranger who was watching the house at the time. Look at Jaycee Dugart and Pamela Smart. and the Castro case in Cleveland where Ariel castro held those women for 10 years. More and more of these cases are going to come to light.It is possible that maybe someone picked the lock on their room,and snatched Maddy.However,why not take any other kid present as well?Some rich pedo might not care if they got a two for one special. Something about this bothers me, as why the focus on the McCann case, when there must be other children,in Portugal,Spain and even Britian who disappears every day,yet the public hears very little about them in the news.What's so special about these people?

[SilentHunter]

Silent h, you have a well put together post. However, I have to ask where in the world would you have access to freezing a corpse in a hotel room ? The minibar? The other thing is with all those hits from the dogs, why would the parents stay there for so long after she went missing? If they wanted press, they could have gone back to England and gotten it from there without the threat of being called in daily for more questioning.

I was going back over the thread after the last post and I came across this one which was exactly what I was thinking. I have noticed this false sense of security in people often in vacation spots. "We are in Disneyland. What bad happens here, everyone is having a good time ? Why the locals are all friendly, helpful people."

They would need access to a fridge with a large enough freezer compartment. I would assume many holiday appartments in Spain contain them with it being a warm country and families potentially spending a couple of weeks there. In my opinion a friend is covering for them or the Mccanns had a second holiday appartment with a freezer in. That also brings up the possibility that Gerry Mccann was the man seen carrying Maddie that night on his way to wherever the freezer was.

Something else about the dogs is a person needs to have been dead 2 days before they can detect the scent. That raises question marks as to detect a body in the flat, on her toy and on Kates clothes (which I should point out the police recovered from the washing machine) then shes been dead at least two days. In my opinion the death occured long before the fake abduction.

When I watch all of their television interviews and speeches I have to ask where is their wailing, tears and reaction you would expect from parents who have had their kid abducted? Every single picture I can find of Gerry and Kate Mccann acting like they're upset (yes acting) has a strange lack of tears running down their faces (they wipe their faces but if you look closely there are no tears) -

https://www.google.c...iw=1287&bih=627 - I wonder why that is? Isnt it a bit strange to decide two days after you've reported your child missing to start getting back to normal by going for a jog in the sun? Where is the despair followed by grieving process? Some pretty strange behaviour going on there.

Edited October 30, 2013 by SilentHunter

[Regi]

However, I have to ask where in the world would you have access to freezing a corpse in a hotel room ?

I can't help it....I'm reminded of Lucy ordering "a thousand" ice cubes for the bathtub, and her and Ethel hauling that big fish back and forth between their hotel rooms as they were hiding it from Ricky and Fred.

Seriously, there's no practical scenario for concealment/disposal of the body. In my mind, that alone rules out the McCann's.

I have noticed this false sense of security in people often in vacation spots. "We are in Disneyland. What bad happens here, everyone is having a good time ? Why the locals are all friendly, helpful people."

Yes. It's my impression that at any other time and place, that the McCann's are conscientious parents.

Kate McCann has said (essentially) that the decision to eat at the restaurant as the children slept in their apartment was made without any thought, so obviously, safety wasn't a concern.

That's consistent with them checking on the children to make sure they were asleep; that the children were still asleep was their only concern.

Edited October 30, 2013 by regi

[Vincennes]

They would need access to a fridge with a large enough freezer compartment. I would assume many holiday appartments in Spain contain them with it being a warm country and families potentially spending a couple of weeks there. In my opinion a friend is covering for them or the Mccanns had a second holiday appartment with a freezer in. That also brings up the possibility that Gerry Mccann was the man seen carrying Maddie that night on his way to wherever the freezer was.

Something else about the dogs is a person needs to have been dead 2 days before they can detect the scent. That raises question marks as to detect a body in the flat, on her toy and on Kates clothes (which I should point out the police recovered from the washing machine) then shes been dead at least two days. In my opinion the death occured long before the fake abduction.

When I watch all of their television interviews and speeches I have to ask where is their wailing, tears and reaction you would expect from parents who have had their kid abducted? Every single picture I can find of Gerry and Kate Mccann acting like they're upset (yes acting) has a strange lack of tears running down their faces (they wipe their faces but if you look closely there are no tears) -

https://www.google.c...iw=1287&bih=627 - I wonder why that is? Isnt it a bit strange to decide two days after you've reported your child missing to start getting back to normal by going for a jog in the sun? Where is the despair followed by grieving process? Some pretty strange behaviour going on there.

I'm sorry, SH, I have to agree with Regi regarding the freezer theory. It's just plausible. I would think any police dept. would look in the refrigerator for a missing child when they did the initial search not because they would immediately expect to find a murder victim but unfortunately because many children shut themselves in refrigerators. The police would have certainly discovered a second apartment by now. Lastly, someone such as a friend hiding her for them would totally become Regi's ice cube scenario.

Re. the dogs hitting, my first thought on that is it the same team of dogs ? How well trained are they in Portugal ? I believe another one of the posters back in the thread posted that at least one of those "hits" had been ruled out. Since the police did at least initially suspect the parents, I wouldn't think they would rule out a hit if they didn't have to. Dogs hitting on the clothes coming out of the washing machine would mean the mother undressed the little girl after she had been dead in the cloths for two days and then what? Was she going to wash the clothes and save them for another kid ?

However, I do have to add here when you talked about the fact the parents didn't cry, my first thought was what people always say. People grieve in different ways. That was my thought until I opened up your link. I will certainly have to give you the fact that mother doesn't looked grieved. In fact the only thing I saw close to that was she looked tired in one of the pictures. The ones taken of her wiping her eyes looked posed and a bad job at pretending. There are no tears that I see at all nor tear streaks. She looks as if she is posing throughout. There is one with her holding something pink, perhaps Maddie's bed toy? That I swear reminded me of a model with a wind machine !! I didn't follow this case all that closely but I always thought she was a very pretty woman. My thought when I closed your link was that I wasn't the only one who thought that. She shared that viewpoint. JMO

Edited October 30, 2013 by Vincennes

[CuriousLittleOne]

While this has been kept out of the British media a colleague of Gerry Mccann made a witness statement to British police saying he had made paedophilla comments regarding oral sex about his daughter Maddie.

WTF , why are the british media not reporting this!!!

[SilentHunter]

While this has been kept out of the British media a colleague of Gerry Mccann made a witness statement to British police saying he had made paedophilla comments regarding oral sex about his daughter Maddie.

WTF , why are the british media not reporting this!!!

Its shocking isnt it.

[Moon Gazer]

They would need access to a fridge with a large enough freezer compartment. I would assume many holiday appartments in Spain contain them with it being a warm country and families potentially spending a couple of weeks there. In my opinion a friend is covering for them or the Mccanns had a second holiday appartment with a freezer in. That also brings up the possibility that Gerry Mccann was the man seen carrying Maddie that night on his way to wherever the freezer was.

While I am not denying there seems to be some stuff going on with regards to evidence.... your comment about Spain and freezers did make me giggle.

Have you ever been to Spain (or Portugal to be precise as this is where it happened and is an entirely different country to Spain). I have been to both countries many times and often stayed in apartments similar to these. You would be lucky to get a fridge, even in a self catering room. And if you had a fridge, you would be very luck for it to have a freezer compartment. And if it did have a freezer compartment, if you could fit more than 5 ice creams in it then you should consider yourself VERY lucky.

I think the only way the freezing theory could have ever happened, would for a hotel employee to have been involved and used the freezers that are for the hotel catering. However in a busy apartment complex I would find it hard to believe that this would go un-noticed.

[Vincennes]

While I am not denying there seems to be some stuff going on with regards to evidence.... your comment about Spain and freezers did make me giggle.

Have you ever been to Spain (or Portugal to be precise as this is where it happened and is an entirely different country to Spain). I have been to both countries many times and often stayed in apartments similar to these. You would be lucky to get a fridge, even in a self catering room. And if you had a fridge, you would be very luck for it to have a freezer compartment. And if it did have a freezer compartment, if you could fit more than 5 ice creams in it then you should consider yourself VERY lucky.

I think the only way the freezing theory could have ever happened, would for a hotel employee to have been involved and used the freezers that are for the hotel catering. However in a busy apartment complex I would find it hard to believe that this would go un-noticed.

I wanted to say that but I was afraid my source might not have been up to date with current life. However, I'm backing you up! I had a friend who studied in Spain and married a Cuban. She used to always remark, their practices regarding refrigeration were nothing like ours in the US. She never had a refrigerator in her apt's there either !!! They bought perishables like milk more on a day to day basis. They also cooked meat differently than we do, very much slower and very much longer so that more of the bacteria is killed during the cooking and it keeps longer without being refrigerated.

[skookum]

While this has been kept out of the British media a colleague of Gerry Mccann made a witness statement to British police saying he had made paedophilla comments regarding oral sex about his daughter Maddie.

WTF , why are the british media not reporting this!!!

Was that the Gasper statement or is this another one?

I see they have found a Patsy to close the case with. A dead man with a grudge who took the child as revenge for being sacked at the Ocean Club. Conveniently he is not English or Portuguese, an immigrant with a shady past. On another forum they had a poll on how this would end, the top voted choice would be they would eventually blame it on a dead sex offender. At the time the press were convinced that Raymond Hewlett guy had done it.

Quite frankly I find it the weakest motive ever for such a crime.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2480161/Madeleine-McCann-investigations-main-suspect-died-4-years-ago.html

Edited October 31, 2013 by skookum

[Regi]

I wanted to say that but I was afraid my source might not have been up to date with current life. However, I'm backing you up! I had a friend who studied in Spain and married a Cuban. She used to always remark, their practices regarding refrigeration were nothing like ours in the US. She never had a refrigerator in her apt's there either !!! They bought perishables like milk more on a day to day basis. They also cooked meat differently than we do, very much slower and very much longer so that more of the bacteria is killed during the cooking and it keeps longer without being refrigerated.

Apart from the case, that's interesting info., Vincennes. Thanks.

[Regi]

Quite frankly I find it the weakest motive ever for such a crime.

Authorities are of one opinion and that's that this is a stranger abduction. Motive is beside the point.

Motive won't be known until we know who the perp is.

[skookum]

Authorities are of one opinion and that's that this is a stranger abduction. Motive is beside the point.

Motive won't be known until we know who the perp is.

Well they think he is dead, so we may never know, conveniently.

[2-B]

Something else about the dogs is a person needs to have been dead 2 days before they can detect the scent. That raises question marks as to detect a body in the flat, on her toy and on Kates clothes (which I should point out the police recovered from the washing machine) then shes been dead at least two days. In my opinion the death occured long before the fake abduction.

Decomposition begins at the moment of death, and dogs' noses are sensitive enough to pick up those subtle signs very soon after death:

One of the questions surrounding human cadaver dogs is how soon after death they can recognise a corpse, and how long a "fresh" corpse must remain in one place for a dog to detect that it has been there. In a study published last year, the forensic pathologist Lars Oesterhelweg, then at the University of Bern in Switzerland, and colleagues tested the ability of three Hamburg State Police cadaver dogs to pick out – of a line-up of six new carpet squares – the one that had been exposed for no more than 10 minutes to a recently deceased person.

Several squares had been placed beneath a clothed corpse within three hours of death, when some organs and many cells of the human body are still functioning. Over the next month, the dogs did hundreds of trials in which they signalled the contaminated square with 98 per cent accuracy, falling to 94 per cent when the square had been in contact with the corpse for only two minutes. The research concluded that cadaver dogs were an "outstanding tool" for crime-scene investigation.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/the-csi-death-dogs-sniffing-out-the-truth-behind-the-crimescene-canines-835047.html

[Regi]

Well they think he is dead, so we may never know, conveniently.

It's not known if he's the perp. (You seem to take everything you read to the bank.)

[dr no]

While this has been kept out of the British media a colleague of Gerry Mccann made a witness statement to British police saying he had made paedophilla comments regarding oral sex about his daughter Maddie.

WTF , why are the british media not reporting this!!!

The British press have printed very little that is critical of the McCanns,even the huffington post uk doesn't allow any comments about the case in their news coverage

[skookum]

It's not known if he's the perp. (You seem to take everything you read to the bank.)

Your right, for the same reason why I never believed the McCann's version of events. Like dr no says they are no longer willing or allowed to print anything to do with the case that can possibly sound negative about the McCann's.

[Regi]

Like dr no says they are no longer willing or allowed to print anything to do with the case that can possibly sound negative about the McCann's.

Too bad, so sad.

[skookum]

I see the Portuguese former detective also thinks this new investigation is a farce.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1564912/Madeleine-McCann-detective-attacks-UK-police.html