Thought experiment..

[bLu3 de 3n3rgy]

He just left out an important cousin to thoughts and ideas in the 'world' of the mind; emotions. I am sure they would be one of the most powerful forces. I think an emotional evolution is just as.. no, more important, than intelligence.

Thanks..

emotions....... hmmmmm........

I tend to think that ideas and thoughts have no emotion of themselves.. Emotions are a physical attribute.

We do tend to attach emotions to certain thoughts and Ideas, but that is done from our ego 3-d Physical existence, and are not born of thoughts or Ideas. Yes, most people are born with a standard set of emotions, but we learn to attach emotions to certain thoughts, ideas, and the actions and consequences throughout life teach us to attach certain emotions to certain thoughts and ideas...

You guys are bringing up empathy V reason. I would agree with Only that an emotional revolution is needed, So that more people evolve to develop empathy which is attached to a higher body of mind/consciousness. ( not the clinical definition of empathy, the psychic ability definition of empathy which is the basis for other abilities, telepathy etc.)

Emotions = energy and can indeed be powerful, emotions are not something that are just based in physicality, they transmit and give form to things beyond our physical level. The energy shaped by emotions can be so incredibly destructive or so incredibly healing. Something might start out as just a thought or reason, but emotion is the cup, the force that shapes it, leading to more awareness and then will to enable it. Emotions are a gateway that can used or misused. But to control emotion or stem a thought before it materialises an emotion, you can stop any thought by being aware of your thoughts.

A bit like the gender theme, reason (mascu) empathy (feminine) needs to become more integrated instead of being 2 forces. Left brain, right brain needs to be whole brain and whole minded.

Whitecrane - nice example.

[White Crane Feather]

You guys are bringing up empathy V reason. I would agree with Only that an emotional revolution is needed, So that more people evolve to develop empathy which is attached to a higher body of mind/consciousness. ( not the clinical definition of empathy, the psychic ability definition of empathy which is the basis for other abilities, telepathy etc.)

Emotions = energy and can indeed be powerful, emotions are not something that are just based in physicality, they transmit and give form to things beyond our physical level. The energy shaped by emotions can be so incredibly destructive or so incredibly healing. Something might start out as just a thought or reason, but emotion is the cup, the force that shapes it, leading to more awareness and then will to enable it. Emotions are a gateway that can used or misused. But to control emotion or stem a thought before it materialises an emotion, you can stop any thought by being aware of your thoughts.

A bit like the gender theme, reason (mascu) empathy (feminine) needs to become more integrated instead of being 2 forces. Left brain, right brain needs to be whole brain and whole minded.

Whitecrane - nice example.

I'm wasn't sure if anyone got that , but its the truth... I actually do that.

Edited October 17, 2013 by White Crane Feather

[Professor T]

Professor T you're garden analogy is excellent. It's not always easy to pull those damn weeds, though. But in another sense, weeds play an important role in that their contrast with the flowers enable us to see the flowers more clearly.

For instance, which is more beautiful, a full moon in a clear sky, or a full moon with clouds drifting before it?

80% of weeds are actually edible plants. I don't pull them. I intergrade them into my salads or juice them in my juicer for the Nutrients they provide. Just saying.

Funnily enough, your both describing my garden as it is at the moment..

I haven't pulled the weeds for a few months, and ironically the garden looks nice, rambling, the contrasts are pleasing to the eye..

It's when the weeds start to take over that something needs to be done about it to restore a healthy balance.

I guess the same is true of thoughts and ideas in the mindscape.. One can delve deep into clusters of thoughts and Ideas and get a bit carried away propagating till it reaches a point where they become weeds.. When one becomes too one-tracked, dogmatic or one eyed about certain ideologies they fail to see the forest through the trees, and contrast is lost..

I saw a slug yesterday, damn it was huge, biggest I've ever seen. I guess it's healthy size is a testament to a healthy ecosystem.. makes one wonder what else occurs in the mindscape..

[Professor T]

You guys are bringing up empathy V reason. I would agree with Only that an emotional revolution is needed, So that more people evolve to develop empathy which is attached to a higher body of mind/consciousness. ( not the clinical definition of empathy, the psychic ability definition of empathy which is the basis for other abilities, telepathy etc.)

Emotions = energy and can indeed be powerful, emotions are not something that are just based in physicality, they transmit and give form to things beyond our physical level. The energy shaped by emotions can be so incredibly destructive or so incredibly healing. Something might start out as just a thought or reason, but emotion is the cup, the force that shapes it, leading to more awareness and then will to enable it. Emotions are a gateway that can used or misused. But to control emotion or stem a thought before it materialises an emotion, you can stop any thought by being aware of your thoughts.

A bit like the gender theme, reason (mascu) empathy (feminine) needs to become more integrated instead of being 2 forces. Left brain, right brain needs to be whole brain and whole minded.

Whitecrane - nice example.

Yeah, you are probably right..

I'm approaching this thought experiment from the left, and as a result of this action I've put the blinkers on the right so limiting my perception..

Empathy is often a shortcoming with me, even with identifying it..

Idea's are held by emotion.... Sponsored by emotion?... I need to go away and think about this..

[Professor T]

The other thing that is horrendously frighting and immature about human nature is mob mentality - the individual bypassing their sense of normal/own moral and decency for the group mentality, which leads to bullying, violence, murder, chaos and acts of cruelty. Who really is in control then of consciousness? Some research i have read says that when people are involved in hurting others/nature via mob mentality they do not feel the same level of remorse, conscience or guilt for their actions. It is as if the whole aspect of agency is threatened when a group consciousness is formed.

How often do thoughts drive a sponsoring energy?

Isn't it usually a case of energy being the driving force?

The reason why I ask is White's recent blog.. There seems to be some answers there..

[aimlesswalk]

I don't agree with natural selection and I don't think it has anymore relevance in terms of our own consciousness than that which we wrongly attribute to it. The natural world is underlined by the unfair and savage reality of natural selection and survival of the fittest it should not be transferred to our thoughts which exist beyond the confines of this narrow vision. Yes we can use our thoughts for our own interests but their function should not be to propagate ourselves (if anything the opposite because thoughts should lessen the primitive urges and instincts which is the catalyst for the abhorrent natural selection impulse) or our own self preservation but something completely subversive so that can use our thoughts to appreciate concepts and ideals not bound to the natural order which may in turn change our consciousness and thus ultimately our own existences so we can disregard the natural selection doctrine which for too long has limited the development of ourselves being able to become more passive and tolerant beings who principle interests are no lingered concerned with self preservation at the expense of those who we deem weaker. There will be no winners and no losers and no competition in the space of our thoughts and this must filter through into our own personal lives.

Edited November 1, 2013 by aimlesswalk

[bLu3 de 3n3rgy]

I think in the beginning there is energy like an ocean. It is a malleable neutral force. Not dark not light ( not mascu not fem) just a canvas waiting to take the form of "whatever" is going to imprint on it. ( thoughts and emotions)

When the ocean currents and shifts begin to stir, thoughts are at bay pinging into the ocean like little pebbles, causing a stir, and suddenly a spark of emotion sets the ocean IN-motion. Something intangible becomes formed.

The will (intention) is the driving force, bringing all that into fruition, it is maybe mistaken for the thought force, but intention shaped by will/focus is a different 'force' from the thought force. Intention needs the emotion and thought together if that makes sense. The emotion being the energy (fuel). That may be where the missing link is between thought level and will (intention) level.

Edited November 1, 2013 by bLu3 de 3n3rgy

[JGirl]

I'm not sure you can separate the thoughts from the emotions as if they were separate things. I've never had one without the other

really?

what about thinking about what time the bus is arriving or what you are going to do for dinner? do you get emotional when you consider these things? how about when working out a mathematical problem?

[SilentHunter]

Thought experiment..

Taking thoughts and our own consciousness out to examine them, there seem to be parallels with evolution and natural selection in the natural world.. A giraffe develops a long neck in order to reach the inaccessible in it's evolution, an ant eater does basically the same by developing a long nose. Natural selection dictates that in times of hardship it was the long necked giraffes and anteaters that survived to perpetuate their species, whereas the shorter were less adaptive and so died out leaving behind the animals we see today.

Our minds, and the development of our own consciousness seems to follow the same path. Minds reach for the inaccessible in fields of knowledge and understanding in basically anything the mind's attention is put to, and minds also suffer times of hardship where old thoughts and ideas die off leaving behind room for the new thoughts and paradigms we know today.. The big difference is, the evolution of the individual mind can be very quick, day's weeks, years, certainly not the centuries and millenniums that the natural world takes to change..

In short, the Mind is a world not unlike the natural world. Thoughts and ideas are the nature that roam it's forests and prairies and oceans. Thoughts and ideas are the predator, the prey and the evolutionary winners and losers... Thoughts and ideas are the hunter and the hunted.. Our exchanges in thoughts and Ideas, therefore, can be likened to sending visitors from your world into another world that can be either harmful or benign, attacking the species already there, planting seeds or eggs of noxious weed or breed, or assimilating into the mind to help it grow and and mature like a garden.

Thoughts?

If you sit there and dwell on a thought, idea, action or belief do you find they always come with a catch?

I think that entropy applies to the human mind with thoughts, ideas, actions and beliefs slowly chipping away at them. Some people die before they go mad, some people go mad before they die and a few people at some point learn not to ground themselves in their thoughts, ideas, actions and beliefs thereby neatly avoiding the problem. If they all come with a catch then arent they all flawed?

I take the rather bizarre stance that there are no truths in the universe just illusions and delusions which cause suffering. But of course for people locked into the idea that reality is something more than just perception they never break out of their mental prison and endure much unpleasantness as a result.

Edited November 1, 2013 by SilentHunter

[Professor T]

I think in the beginning there is energy like an ocean. It is a malleable neutral force. Not dark not light ( not mascu not fem) just a canvas waiting to take the form of "whatever" is going to imprint on it. ( thoughts and emotions)

When the ocean currents and shifts begin to stir, thoughts are at bay pinging into the ocean like little pebbles, causing a stir, and suddenly a spark of emotion sets the ocean IN-motion. Something intangible becomes formed.

The will (intention) is the driving force, bringing all that into fruition, it is maybe mistaken for the thought force, but intention shaped by will/focus is a different 'force' from the thought force. Intention needs the emotion and thought together if that makes sense. The emotion being the energy (fuel). That may be where the missing link is between thought level and will (intention) level.

Thanks..

Oh man! This is way above my head.. Your level of perception is not surprisingly way beyond mine..

I do see a paradox loop here though, similar to the age old "If god created everything then who created him" or "Which came first, the chicken or the egg." or maybe that's just me.

I think I got it... (sat on this for ages..)

Oooo.. I think I can experiment with this...

Thanks heaps!

[Professor T]

If you sit there and dwell on a thought, idea, action or belief do you find they always come with a catch?

I think that entropy applies to the human mind with thoughts, ideas, actions and beliefs slowly chipping away at them. Some people die before they go mad, some people go mad before they die and a few people at some point learn not to ground themselves in their thoughts, ideas, actions and beliefs thereby neatly avoiding the problem. If they all come with a catch then arent they all flawed?

I take the rather bizarre stance that there are no truths in the universe just illusions and delusions which cause suffering. But of course for people locked into the idea that reality is something more than just perception they never break out of their mental prison and endure much unpleasantness as a result.

Not really..

If you sit, relax, and dwell on a thought that isn't self serving or is a genuine question I find that sometimes I reach startling & simple conclusions as though the universe is answering my thoughts.. Unfortunately, more often than not, the universe doesn't often let me remember them, and the brief euphoria fades..

[Frank Merton]

I take the rather bizarre stance that there are no truths in the universe just illusions and delusions which cause suffering. But of course for people locked into the idea that reality is something more than just perception they never break out of their mental prison and endure much unpleasantness as a result.

The idea that there is a connection between suffering and the idea of reality seems unwieldy. Why?

That our perceptions are not real is clear enough, and that is I think what causes a lot of people to have wrong ideas about the world, but I'm not sure we can say there is no underlying reality that we don't perceive.

[Frank Merton]

Not really..

If you sit, relax, and dwell on a thought that isn't self serving or is a genuine question I find that sometimes I reach startling & simple conclusions as though the universe is answering my thoughts.. Unfortunately, more often than not, the universe doesn't often let me remember them, and the brief euphoria fades..

Insights reached in an altered state of mind may seem important while in that state, but lose their significance when you leave it. This is generally taken as a sign that the insight is not as deep as one imagines at the time. It's insights that persist after the state of mind is left that are really significant.

[Professor T]

Insights reached in an altered state of mind may seem important while in that state, but lose their significance when you leave it. This is generally taken as a sign that the insight is not as deep as one imagines at the time. It's insights that persist after the state of mind is left that are really significant.

I don't think they lose their significance.. It's more like they're lost in translation..

[SilentHunter]

The idea that there is a connection between suffering and the idea of reality seems unwieldy. Why?

That our perceptions are not real is clear enough, and that is I think what causes a lot of people to have wrong ideas about the world, but I'm not sure we can say there is no underlying reality that we don't perceive.

Well come out with a perception, idea or belief and I'll reply telling you some of its catches.

Edited November 2, 2013 by SilentHunter

[spacecowboy342]

really?

what about thinking about what time the bus is arriving or what you are going to do for dinner? do you get emotional when you consider these things? how about when working out a mathematical problem?

I definitely get emotional when doing math

[bLu3 de 3n3rgy]

Thanks..

Oh man! This is way above my head.. Your level of perception is not surprisingly way beyond mine..

I do see a paradox loop here though, similar to the age old "If god created everything then who created him" or "Which came first, the chicken or the egg." or maybe that's just me.

I think I got it... (sat on this for ages..)

Oooo.. I think I can experiment with this...

Thanks heaps!

I like this article it ties in with this.

http://www.livescien...c-moves-us.html

It's something that has been presenting it self to me over the past week, in various ways, got to love that cookie crumb trail (synchronizes)

Edited November 2, 2013 by bLu3 de 3n3rgy

[bLu3 de 3n3rgy]

Past studies showed that the same brain areas were activated when people read emotion in both music and movement. That made Wheatley wonder how the two were connected.

Lets use music here a moment in the same way as the ocean example - The notes, the language of music is the written thought level imprinting upon the "ocean canvas", the result is the frequencies, the vibrations, the harmonies, and the disharmonies created by the emotion, as a result of direct observation of reading and receiving the source input.

If anyone can put that in a better way feel free, i know I'm not even barely touching the surface of it, but hopefully you get my drift.

[Professor T]

Far out...

On the 18th October (in a bit of a left brained state) I jumped in the car and went for a drive to work things over in my mind.. I was thinking about the connection or lack of connection between thought and emotion.. A song came on the radio, then bang, I got it.. lol.. I started asking myself why I liked the music, why it made me feel so good.. It wasn't provoking thoughts, but it did provoke feeling.. There was proof right there that emotions were utterly missed in this thought experiment.. There was a new depth in it that I didn't quite understand.

Also, since then, it's come up again in various memes, such as songs on the radio that I never used to like now seem to hold a deeper meaning.. I watched the Dr Seuss's "The Lorax" a few days ago, and utterly lost it when at the end they started singing "Let it Grow".. grrrrrrrrrr, i mean... who the hell cry's to a song like that! Dr Seuss is (from a left perspective) just a kiddie movie, but from a more open and balanced perspective that movie was very deep, and the Song sure stirred my emotions.. It was, I guess, a perfect marriage between Idea and Emotion..

[spacecowboy342]

Far out...

On the 18th October (in a bit of a left brained state) I jumped in the car and went for a drive to work things over in my mind.. I was thinking about the connection or lack of connection between thought and emotion.. A song came on the radio, then bang, I got it.. lol.. I started asking myself why I liked the music, why it made me feel so good.. It wasn't provoking thoughts, but it did provoke feeling.. There was proof right there that emotions were utterly missed in this thought experiment.. There was a new depth in it that I didn't quite understand.

Also, since then, it's come up again in various memes, such as songs on the radio that I never used to like now seem to hold a deeper meaning.. I watched the Dr Seuss's "The Lorax" a few days ago, and utterly lost it when at the end they started singing "Let it Grow".. grrrrrrrrrr, i mean... who the hell cry's to a song like that! Dr Seuss is (from a left perspective) just a kiddie movie, but from a more open and balanced perspective that movie was very deep, and the Song sure stirred my emotions.. It was, I guess, a perfect marriage between Idea and Emotion..

Still you were thinking while you were feeling. Thoughts and emotions are both products of the neural net and inseperable.

[Professor T]

Still you were thinking while you were feeling. Thoughts and emotions are both products of the neural net and inseperable.

Yesterday I thought to myself.. Hmmm, think I'll have a cup of tea. (I'd been on a coffee binge.)

So off to the kitchen I went, and got half way through making myself a coffee before I realized that "hey! Damn it, I wanted to make a tea."

So, a little annoyed with myself, I rinsed out the coffee and started making my tea.

That in my mind is an example of first thought failing to materialize because it lacked emotion.. & the 2nd (same thought) and resulting actions materializing because they were sponsored and supported by an emotion, all be it one of annoyance..

I know this example does sound like simple every-day absent mindedness.. But when you juggle both examples around in your head, and compared the 1'st and 2nd instances of making a drink it's easy to see what was absent in my mind when my intention initially failed..

Thoughts aren't half as powerful if they aren't supported by energy (emotion).. They just linger, meander and operate robotically..

[spacecowboy342]

Yesterday I thought to myself.. Hmmm, think I'll have a cup of tea. (I'd been on a coffee binge.)

So off to the kitchen I went, and got half way through making myself a coffee before I realized that "hey! Damn it, I wanted to make a tea."

So, a little annoyed with myself, I rinsed out the coffee and started making my tea.

That in my mind is an example of first thought failing to materialize because it lacked emotion.. & the 2nd (same thought) and resulting actions materializing because they were sponsored and supported by an emotion, all be it one of annoyance..

I know this example does sound like simple every-day absent mindedness.. But when you juggle both examples around in your head, and compared the 1'st and 2nd instances of making a drink it's easy to see what was absent in my mind when my intention initially failed..

Thoughts aren't half as powerful if they aren't supported by energy (emotion).. They just linger, meander and operate robotically..

I get what you are saying but I still maintain there is no separation. Intensity of emotion might vary but I can't see emotion not being there at all unless you are a machine or a Vulcan