How Bad were Things Before Obama?

[Yamato]

So should the FedGov had saved up 100 trillion dollars before enacting medicare? Otherwise there would be liability, right? When has the US saved up even 100 billion?

There would be liability anyway, there'd just be some assets to sit in a vault and be devalued...no wait...invested on Wall St. like a big dog rolling dice with the money for the higher returns?! No, I think that all the money govt collects should be spent, but no more than, or not much more than, what govt brings in revenues, unless in times of emergency or war. And no, neocon wars of choice don't count.

Programs like Medicare/SS are paid with current revenues, not with lock boxed trust funds.

Edited November 2, 2013 by Yamato

[Gummug]

The ObamaCare Transformation is beginning to crumble and lose credibility. Democrat Kirsten Powers has seen the light.

[media=]

[/media]

Sorry, I'm a Johnny-come-lately on this. Towards the end of this clip, Megyn says the numbers are so far holding steady (I think she means of supporters of Obama care). Shoot, how stupid can people be?

[spud the mackem]

Yesterday all yours troubles were so far away,

its not an easy game to play,

when Bush was king pin for the day

do you believe in Yesterday.

[LucidElement]

Obama has turned this country upside down. I love how his approval rating has dropped significantly from the Democratic side. His biggest achievement that he wanted sooooo bad was Obama care.. well now that there is massive website issues.. we get to pay for the industry to repair the issues. YUP increase in taxes.. not to mention, and where he is getting nailed the most "affordable health care act right?" guess what, 150.00 easy for a legitimate policy... and no pre-existing conditions... its not the republicans or the democrats its one man whos getting his strings pulled by whoever.. its one man who knows his background and true ethnicity.. NO MILITARY EXPERIENCE , kisses ass (PUTIN SAVED US FROM DEALING WITH SYRIA) lol you think any otherrrr president PUTIN would walk all over as he did OBAMA.. hell no, he never did. Putin always had his differences but he never came out swinging like he does upon Obama... then we have Obama taking the credit for the Syria issue (saying it was his idea for them to turn over the chemical weapons..) to bad PUTIN is up for the peace prize because the world knows it was his idea... sorry to get off topic.. just irritates me, im pretty open minded, but looking at American government right now, its pretty twisted. (Of course, the government always has its secrets and what not..) but whats going on lately, isnt worth arguing about or even talking about..What ever happened to the government working for us "THE PEOPLE" all off a sudden with Obama .. we work for the government""

[danielost]

I heard the other day that when Obama said "People will be allowed to keep their insurance.", he meant Corporate employees. Individual Insurance perchasers were ALWAYS known to be screwed.

Forty percent of corporate employees will lose their's too. According to fox.

[CyberKen]

Forty percent of corporate employees will lose their's too. According to Fox News.

Obama delayed the Employer Mandate to make himself look less guilty.

Charles Krauthammer got it right:

3 Pillars of ObamaCare:

- Mendacity

- Paternalism

- Subterfuge : Don't say anything openly or you will lose elections

[ninjadude]

YUP increase in taxes..

maybe you don't pay any or are independently wealthy but they were reduced for most people in 2009.

[Yamato]

Wait till this Statist/Elitist-faked papered-over economy comes crashing down again. You folks ain't seen nothing yet. If website problems are reason enough to disapprove of Barack Obama, grab your socks and hold on tight.

[danielost]

maybe you don't pay any or are independently wealthy but they were reduced for most people in 2009.

your not counting the twenty plus new taxes imposed by obamacare, that has or will be imposed.

[danielost]

retracted

Edited November 2, 2013 by danielost

[+DieChecker]

Forty percent of corporate employees will lose their's too. According to fox.

That could be true, but Obama "intended" that corporate insurance not be affected. But, I think he Intended that the individual purchasers be hosed from the beginning.

[danielost]

no just the young and healthy. who are signing up for medicaid.

[ninjadude]

your not counting the twenty plus new taxes imposed by obamacare, that has or will be imposed.

don't affect a majority

no just the young and healthy. who are signing up for medicaid.

only if below the poverty line

[danielost]

You've missed the entire point of this thread.

I have. I thought this was about giving obama a pat on the back for a job well done. But, I disagree with that idea. Obama has done nothing except try to become a dictator. Bush put to much power in th hands of the government with the patriat act, and obama took what buh started and put the government in charge of your health.

[danielost]

don't affect a majority

only if below the poverty line

It affects everyone. If the young don't sign up or obamacare no one will benefit from it. It is dependent on the young and healthy to fund it.

Almost all the young qualify for medicade now, the line is 250% above poverty line. The only young that won't qualify are ones like bill gates's kids fter bill dies. Then they have a choice of paying $200 a month for oamacare or $90 a year penalty.

What would you choose, honestly.

Edited November 4, 2013 by danielost

[andy4]

It affects everyone. If the young don't sign up or obamacare no one will benefit from it. It is dependent on the young and healthy to fund it.

Almost all the young qualify for medicade now, the line is 250% above poverty line. The only young that won't qualify are ones like bill gates's kids fter bill dies. Then they have a choice of paying $200 a month for oamacare or $90 a year penalty.

What would you choose, honestly.

Just to jump in here, I wouldn't choose either of those, because they aren't true. You say these people who qualify for Medicaid are 250% above the poverty line. Doesn't the ACA go by income, or am I missing something here? They wouldn't pay 200$ a month just based on that alone.

[Yamato]

If we were really so insane as ninjadude would turn us, we'd be scrapping and building new policies for the ever-changing majority almost every year. How much waste is that? Far more than we get now.

[Yamato]

Go to a broken website that couldn't work after three years and $650 whatever million was dumped into it, usually to find out how the penalties work and how to avoid them, realize you qualify for Medicaid, and then that you don't have to pay any Obamacare premiums after all! What a deal! It's "free", and as every good statist knows, "free" means affordable! So they'll be defending this little unintended consequence of the bloat that ruins the market with the same excuse they always do. Focus solely on the new Obamacare recipients who fall in between these lines drawn by the bureau and then boot the can. In saying all that, can't you folks find another room to discuss Obamacare in? I mean, really.

Republicans, own up to your own debt and make the taxpayers pay for the pills, make them pay for the wars, make them pay for the oil pipeline. Will republicans do any of that? No of course not. They're going to milk the cow just like they always have. Paying bills is bad politics, "conservatives" notwithstanding.

[Gummug]

I don't want to come down on baby boomers or any other single generation with all the gravity. The Devil in this play is the Federal Reserve System, born 100 years ago today in one of the worst years of US history since slavery, 1913. The American people, with the Fed's gigantic red teets dangling in front of them, are only so blameworthy for milking on them 50 years and 100 years later.

The Fed has destroyed the value of our money, funded aggressive wars, created an unrealistic and unnatural expectation of endless growth in the form of inflation, and made possible the creation of the social welfare state. No American alive would have voted for that, if they had only been told the truth.

Not to mention the Fed was also created in the utmost secrecy on Jekyll Island. I'm not sure, but iirc the architects of the Fed had a hand in getting Woodrow Wilson elected because, again iirc, they needed him to get the Fed through Congress.

eta: got a little off-topic I guess, sorry.

Edited November 4, 2013 by Gummug

[Kowalski]

Not to mention the Fed was also created in the utmost secrecy on Jekyll Island. I'm not sure, but iirc the architects of the Fed had a hand in getting Woodrow Wilson elected because, again iirc, they needed him to get the Fed through Congress.

eta: got a little off-topic I guess, sorry.

Your right!

[CyberKen]

I have. I thought this was about giving obama a pat on the back for a job well done. But, I disagree with that idea. Obama has done nothing except try to become a dictator. Bush put to much power in th hands of the government with the patriat act, and obama took what buh started and put the government in charge of your health.

Health Care -vs- ObamaCare

Health Care exists to treat and care.

ObamaCare exists to expand government, dependency and control.

[supervike]

I have. I thought this was about giving obama a pat on the back for a job well done. But, I disagree with that idea. Obama has done nothing except try to become a dictator. Bush put to much power in th hands of the government with the patriat act, and obama took what buh started and put the government in charge of your health.

No, I'm relatively sure Yamato was NOT patting obama on the back. He was pointing out that the pundits of the Republican party seem to act like all the Government woes began the minute Obama took the oath.

The point is that we have been led astray by BOTH parties.

Edited November 4, 2013 by supervike

[Kowalski]

No, I'm relatively sure Yamato was NOT patting obama on the back. He was pointing out that the pundits of the Republican party seem to act like all the Government woes began the minute Obama took the oath.

The point is that we have been led astray by BOTH parties.

And no one seems to get it....

Edited November 4, 2013 by Kowalski

[Yamato]

Not to mention the Fed was also created in the utmost secrecy on Jekyll Island. I'm not sure, but iirc the architects of the Fed had a hand in getting Woodrow Wilson elected because, again iirc, they needed him to get the Fed through Congress.

eta: got a little off-topic I guess, sorry.

You're attacking the real enemy, Sir Gummug. What could be better?

[ian hacktorp]

People of this country need to let go of the left-right paradigm that is being constantly shoved down their throats. It is precisely the ridiculous and false belief that politics are a struggle between red and blue that keeps people of the US (and elsewhere) in perpetual slavery. It's become a theater of the absurd that, increasingly, only idiots will swallow.

Smart and experienced people are beginning to voice their opinions not just of how bad things have gotten, but also of what can be done.

This recent video is one of the best summations I've seen lately...I agreed with about 99% of it. Best 1.5 hours you may spend this season:

As we will never return to 'business as usual' 23 international thinkers, government advisors and Wall Street money-men break their silence and explain how to establish a moral and just society.

Time to reset and rebuild the economic pyramid for future generations.

Let's be frank without being merton,

Okay, now that's just plain funny.

Edited November 4, 2013 by hacktorp