Royal Marine Guilty Of Murdering Afghan Fight

[Commander CMG]

A Royal Marine has been found guilty of murdering an Afghan fighter, who had been seriously wounded by an Apache attack helicopter.

A court martial in Bulford, Wiltshire, found that the serviceman - known only as Marine A - shot the insurgent, who was armed with an AK47, in the chest with a 9mm pistol in Helmand Province more than two years ago.

Two other Marines - referred to as Marines B and C - were acquitted.

All will remain anonymous until the court martial or a judge decides otherwise.

The three men had denied murdering the unknown captured Afghan national on or about September 15, 2011, contrary to Section 42 of the Armed Forces Act 2006.

But a seven-strong board, consisting of officers and non-commissioned officers, convicted Marine A following a two-week trial.

View: Read more

[Ealdwita]

There are several ways to view that situation, perhaps best not to comment, methinks.

[Commander CMG]

There are several ways to view that situation, perhaps best not to comment, methinks.

I too will have to keep quiet on this one also .

[Taun]

There are several ways to view that situation, perhaps best not to comment, methinks.

Agreed...

[stevewinn]

I hope the Marine whose been found guilty is given a lenient sentence. life in prison is to much. 8 years reduced to 5, released in 3. he's no threat to society. the same society that asked him to carry out the will of government on behalf of the government we elected. 99.9% of the men and women in the armed forces conduct themselves in a manner of how the military expects. but on occasion individuals will sometimes let these high standards slip like on this occasion and not always down to the individual involved.

Its okay for people to criticise from the comfort of their office chair or front room, when these people are as far removed from the implications of war as can be. and here i include our politicians. its easy for them to send our men and woman overseas to engage in conflicts and just as easy for them to criticise them. - yet how much responsibility does the government have to take. - in Iraq and Afghanistan the Armed forces achieved everything asked of them. militarily, they've done our nation proud once again. - but failings, and there was failings can all be laid at the governments door, inept - a total lack of planning by our politicians once the militarily campaign was achieved as lead to unnecessary loss of life on all sides.

I've always believed we shouldn't get involved in any conflicts unless we are willing to use all means to achieve victory. wars are not civil and never will be - consequences will not always be to our liking. but maybe the politicians should consider this before asking our men and woman to put their LIVES on the line on their behalf.

[TopToffee]

View: Read more

Let us not judge these people.We reap what we sow. I have sown many..

Edited November 9, 2013 by TopToffee

[Kaa-Tzik]

This should have been ignored. What happens at the front is what happens, despite any treaties or what those who never fight say. I notice this case has been made to seem the same as genuine atrocities such as Malmedy, which was coldblooded and systematic murder. War is not pleasant at the front, and those who do not fight should keep quiet while others kill for them.

[Rlyeh]

War is not pleasant at the front, and those who do not fight should keep quiet while others kill for them.

So only trained killers have this right?

[Kaa-Tzik]

So only trained killers have this right?

Your tone indicates that you have contempt for the military and have no experience of war, or if so, then perhaps you are a saint....

[Rlyeh]

Your tone indicates that you have contempt for the military and have no experience of war, or if so, then perhaps you are a saint....

In other words you'd rather not elaborate on your ignorant remark.

[Kaa-Tzik]

In other words you'd rather not elaborate on your ignorant remark.

Really, and it's okay for you to make some throw away insulting remark is it. You some peace creep then, or some parasite happy to let others die for you while you sit at home whining.

[Rlyeh]

Really, and it's okay for you to make some throw away insulting remark is it. You some peace creep then, or some parasite happy to let others die for you while you sit at home whining.

I asked a question. You clearly think its okay to turn a blind eye when combatants commit crimes, as long as they protect you, that's all you're worried about.

[Kaa-Tzik]

I asked a question. You clearly think its okay to turn a blind eye when combatants commit crimes, as long as they protect you, that's all you're worried about.

It is unreasonable for frontline soldiers to think to obey every last dot and comma of international treaties when in action, as he was. The adrelenin rush is present, the fear of being killed yourself, the anger of knowing that your enemy will never take you prisoner and that they desecrate the bodies of your comrades. When these incidents happen, when the fighting has stopped and the front has moved on, then he would have a case to answer. War is bad and brutal and somethings should have a blind eye turned to them or otherwise the troops will fear to pull the trigger. This was not Abu Ghraib or Malmedy, it happened while combat was still taking place. It has always been recognised that all manner of things occur in face to face fighting, and it should be left at that, it is what happens after that, that should concern us.

Edited November 9, 2013 by Kaa-Tzik

[Rlyeh]

It is unreasonable for frontline soldiers to think to obey every last dot and comma of international treaties when in action, as he was. The adrelenin rush is present, the fear of being killed yourself, the anger of knowing that your enemy will never take you prisoner and that they desecrate the bodies of your comrades. When these incidents happen when the fighting has stopped and the front has moven on, then he would have a case to answer. War is bad and brutal and somethings should have a blind eye turned to them or otherwise the troops will fear to pull the trigger. This was not Abu Ghraib or Malmedy, it happened while combat was still taking place. It has always been recognised that all manner of things occur in face to face fighting, and it should be left at that, it is what happens after that should concern us.

No, I don't blame them for not following to a T. However this idea of keeping quiet and letting others kill for you is unreasonable. No one has a voice but other combatants?

[SilentHunter]

It is unreasonable for frontline soldiers to think to obey every last dot and comma of international treaties when in action, as he was. The adrelenin rush is present, the fear of being killed yourself, the anger of knowing that your enemy will never take you prisoner and that they desecrate the bodies of your comrades. When these incidents happen, when the fighting has stopped and the front has moved on, then he would have a case to answer. War is bad and brutal and somethings should have a blind eye turned to them or otherwise the troops will fear to pull the trigger. This was not Abu Ghraib or Malmedy, it happened while combat was still taking place. It has always been recognised that all manner of things occur in face to face fighting, and it should be left at that, it is what happens after that, that should concern us.

People cant expect soliders watching comrades getting maimed, shot or killed not to take it out on captives. If the Taliban caught one of our lads they'd cut his head off so I dont see what the problem is. His sentence should be quashed.

[Setton]

This should have been ignored. What happens at the front is what happens, despite any treaties or what those who never fight say. I notice this case has been made to seem the same as genuine atrocities such as Malmedy, which was coldblooded and systematic murder. War is not pleasant at the front, and those who do not fight should keep quiet while others kill for them.

So we should turn a blind eye when people representing our country, paid by our taxes, supposedly upholding our values as a nation perform cold-blooded, unauthorised executions?

I don't expect soldiers to keep to every minor detail in all the the legal waffle. I think a pre-meditated, cold-blooded murder is rather more than a minor detail though.

People cant expect soliders watching comrades getting maimed, shot or killed not to take it out on captives. If the Taliban caught one of our lads they'd cut his head off so I dont see what the problem is. His sentence should be quashed.

And then how are we any better than the people we're fighting? The vast majority of soldiers manage not to murder captives. I'm proud of our armed forces and have nothing but respect for them. However, individuals like the marine in the article let the others down and should be held to account.

Yes, the Taliban would probably execute any of our soldiers they captured. That's why I have such respect for those who fight them. If we sink to their level, why shouldn't someone else fight us?

[Commander CMG]

So we should turn a blind eye when people representing our country, paid by our taxes, supposedly upholding our values as a nation perform cold-blooded, unauthorised executions?

I don't expect soldiers to keep to every minor detail in all the the legal waffle. I think a pre-meditated, cold-blooded murder is rather more than a minor detail though.

And then how are we any better than the people we're fighting? The vast majority of soldiers manage not to murder captives. I'm proud of our armed forces and have nothing but respect for them. However, individuals like the marine in the article let the others down and should be held to account.

Yes, the Taliban would probably execute any of our soldiers they captured. That's why I have such respect for those who fight them. If we sink to their level, why shouldn't someone else fight us?

It is so easy to put it all into context when sat at home in your arm chair with your central heating on, passing judgment on a soldier or individuals that do something to offend your moral standards.

We are fighting a war, do you believe we won the great wars by fighting like gentleman, playing to the rules and regulations that people have imprinted I their heads. The only mistake this guy made was to allow his actions to come back and bite him, recorded proof of his actions.

Until you have witnessed your fellow soldiers being killed and have seen their body parts hanging from trees, posts, or have been in a dirty combat situation, then you have no idea what it is like.

It isn’t case of stooping their level, it’s case of doing everything it takes regardless to what it is to get the result we are paid for, I personally would not take a single prisoner if that was my choice and throw them into the human rights basket, War isn’t supposed to be black and white and something that has boundaries, the Geneva convention and all the human right crap, rules of engagement blah blah blah, a bunch of seat shining bleeding heart liberals that have no idea on what the hell is going on in the field and what it really takes to get the result our boys and girls are paid to do. The sit and pass guidelines in the comfort of their warm offices in Geneva or wherever.

You don’t win wars by being nice, after all the enemy play to rules and regulations don’t they… they have moral standards and hold the Geneva Convention in high regard.

I have had to justify my actions in a court of law a few times now, I wasn’t paid to arrest, I was paid to do a job.. I know I said I would stay out of this thread at the beginning but people like you make me sick, I have lost more friends in combat than you probably have in your perfect life now.

[Mr.United_Nations]

He would of got the same sentence if that helicopter saw what happened, still a crime though, they could of questioned him back at base.

[Commander CMG]

He would of got the same sentence if that helicopter saw what happened, still a crime though, they could of questioned him back at base.

It isn’t a crime, you can’t be selective and choose right and wrongs in a war situation.. killing in general is a crime but that is what is expected from soldiers, there are way too many variables in a combat situation to have boundaries of right and wrong, we have real criminals here in the civvy street that commit outright crimes and murders that will end up doing less time than this guy and they commit crimes in an environment that have definite boundaries.

[Kaa-Tzik]

No, I don't blame them for not following to a T. However this idea of keeping quiet and letting others kill for you is unreasonable. No one has a voice but other combatants?

When it comes to what happens in close combat, then yes, for only they know what it is like. Though what happens when the fighting has moved on is a different matter.

[Kaa-Tzik]

So we should turn a blind eye when people representing our country, paid by our taxes, supposedly upholding our values as a nation perform cold-blooded, unauthorised executions?

I don't expect soldiers to keep to every minor detail in all the the legal waffle. I think a pre-meditated, cold-blooded murder is rather more than a minor detail though.

Soldiers in the front line and engaged with the enemy are not upholding any "values", they are fighting for their lives and the lives of their comrades. They do not give a damn about any "suits" and lawyers and bleeding heart weak willed "rights" people. Perhaps if you knew that your enemy does not take prisoners, or if they do, then they will never survive, then you too may do as this marine had. If every action is to be recorded so that it can be certain that no "rights" were violated, then I suggest immediate surrender to the enemy. When these incidents are reported, and reported as if this is a second Holocaust, the only winners are the enemy and the lawyers. When Soviet Afghan war was happening I know that film taken by the enemy of Soviet soldiers being murdered in cold blood was used as "entertainment" in Western countries. Now you have discovered that your ex "friends" do not play by any rules whatsoever, not nice is it. Being "nice" is the quick way to defeat. An example from Beirut during civil war. Hostages were taken, some executed like an American Colonel, others, like Terry Waite, held for years. At the begining of this episode several Soviet citizens were taken hostage. A spetzgroup was sent to extract them, and this was succesful. However, they also cut off the heads of the terrorists and dumped them outside the building used by their commanders. As a consequence not one more Soviet citizen was taken hostage. It is not "nice". it is against the rules,but it works and ultimately saves lives. If you do not like what your soldiers do, then close your eyes and be silent, or your eyes will be closed by your enemy and silence will be forever.

Edited November 9, 2013 by Kaa-Tzik

[Setton]

It is so easy to put it all into context when sat at home in your arm chair with your central heating on, passing judgment on a soldier or individuals that do something to offend your moral standards.

We are fighting a war, do you believe we won the great wars by fighting like gentleman, playing to the rules and regulations that people have imprinted I their heads. The only mistake this guy made was to allow his actions to come back and bite him, recorded proof of his actions.

Until you have witnessed your fellow soldiers being killed and have seen their body parts hanging from trees, posts, or have been in a dirty combat situation, then you have no idea what it is like.

It isn’t case of stooping their level, it’s case of doing everything it takes regardless to what it is to get the result we are paid for, I personally would not take a single prisoner if that was my choice and throw them into the human rights basket, War isn’t supposed to be black and white and something that has boundaries, the Geneva convention and all the human right crap, rules of engagement blah blah blah, a bunch of seat shining bleeding heart liberals that have no idea on what the hell is going on in the field and what it really takes to get the result our boys and girls are paid to do. The sit and pass guidelines in the comfort of their warm offices in Geneva or wherever.

You don’t win wars by being nice, after all the enemy play to rules and regulations don’t they… they have moral standards and hold the Geneva Convention in high regard.

I have had to justify my actions in a court of law a few times now, I wasn’t paid to arrest, I was paid to do a job.. I know I said I would stay out of this thread at the beginning but people like you make me sick, I have lost more friends in combat than you probably have in your perfect life now.

Would not take a single prisoner...

And you have the nerve to say I make you sick. Then let me tell you what I think of people like the marine in this article and those who support him: You're cowards. To shoot an severely injured, incapacitated man in cold blood is simple cowardice. What purpose did that serve? He wasn't a threat. Christ, if they thought he was dead as claimed (bull****) what good was shooting him going to do?

And I suggest you don't make any further assumptions about me or what I have and haven't done in my life.

Soldiers in the front line and engaged with the enemy are not upholding any "values", they are fighting for their lives and the lives of their comrades. They do not give a damn about any "suits" and lawyers and bleeding heart weak willed "rights" people. Perhaps if you knew that your enemy does not take prisoners, or if they do, then they will never survive, then you too may do as this marine had.

In the thick of the fighting, I agree, anything goes. When you go out and find an injured enemy, make the effort of dragging him out of sight then shoot him at point blank range, that's something else.

And if they aren't there fighting for our country's values, why are they there?

If every action is to be recorded so that it can be certain that no "rights" were violated, then I suggest immediate surrender to the enemy. When these incidents are reported, and reported as if this is a second Holocaust, the only winners are the enemy and the lawyers. When Soviet Afghan war was happening I know that film taken by the enemy of Soviet soldiers being murdered in cold blood was used as "entertainment" in Western countries. Now you have discovered that your ex "friends" do not play by any rules whatsoever, not nice is it. Being "nice" is the quick way to defeat. An example from Beirut during civil war. Hostages were taken, some executed like an American Colonel, others, like Terry Waite, held for years. At the begining of this episode several Soviet citizens were taken hostage. A spetzgroup was sent to extract them, and this was succesful. However, they also cut off the heads of the terrorists and dumped them outside the building used by their commanders. As a consequence not one more Soviet citizen was taken hostage. It is not "nice". it is against the rules,but it works and ultimately saves lives.

That reminds me of a certain Prince of Wallachia. He'd leave a golden cup at a well in the town. Anyone took it, they were arrested and impaled along with their entire family. It's worth noting that that prince was eventually killed by his own men. Just something to think on.

If you do not like what your soldiers do, then close your eyes and be silent, or your eyes will be closed by your enemy and silence will be forever.

Very poetic. And very disturbing. If we give soldiers free reign to do whatever they please, we are on the way to becoming a purely military state. And if we follow your philosophy and let might make right, it's only a matter of time before somebody more powerful wipes us out. By respecting one another's rights as human beings, we can work towards a future where wars are at least less common. If we allow murders like this to go unnoticed, we fall back into the dark age mindset where one offence begets another for hundreds of years until no-one even knows who we're fighting, let alone why.

[Commander CMG]

So people like me are cowards and I should not make any further assumptions about you.

How many situations have you been in that is similar to this soldier and I am not talking about someone pushing in front of you at the local chip shop?

What purpose did that serve shooting the enemy, it makes him no threat, if he can breath and hold a weapon he is a threat. I guess telling you about my torture techniques would be wasted on you, however they were 100% effective.

Don’t ever call me a coward.. I would love you to say that to my face. I have seen and done more than enough for my country to have an opinion on this thread.

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

It isn’t a crime, you can’t be selective and choose right and wrongs in a war situation

No, that's the job of a Court Martial.

[Setton]

So people like me are cowards and I should not make any further assumptions about you.

I'm please you've grasped the concept.

How many situations have you been in that is similar to this soldier and I am not talking about someone pushing in front of you at the local chip shop?

Depends what you count as similar. I've never been in a war. Never been one worth fighting in my time. But I have been in a situation where I could have taken a life to stop someone being a threat. I chose not to and I don't regret that for a second. That's all I'm going to say on the subject.

What purpose did that serve shooting the enemy, it makes him no threat, if he can breath and hold a weapon he is a threat. I guess telling you about my torture techniques would be wasted on you, however they were 100% effective.

He was already badly hurt and out of action. He was no threat. This was just a man letting emotions get the better of him.

No, telling me about your torture techniques would not be wasted. My opinion of you can always fall further.

Don’t ever call me a coward.. I would love you to say that to my face.

So would I. Very entertaining, I imagine. But, luckily for both of us, I'm not one to get into petty macho p***ing contests. I know who I am, I know what I will fight for and I know where I draw the line. And I don't need to justify myself to the likes of you.

I have seen and done more than enough for my country to have an opinion on this thread.

Of course you can have an opinion. So can I. Because luckily, the majority of our soldiers are not like the coward in this story and so we can be free to voice those opinions.

Whether you like it or not.