if a society is judged

[danielost]

By how it treats its children? Then what is said by a society that murders its children. There are two nations where it is the normal thing to do.

[Almagest]

Judged by whom? If you're referring to abortion it's legal in a lot of places.

[Rlyeh]

Which nations murder children?

[Mr.United_Nations]

If you're using religion as an excuse then dont bother

[danielost]

Judged by whom? If you're referring to abortion it's legal in a lot of places.

That just makes things worse doesn't.

[danielost]

Which nations murder children?

China due to their one child only policy. Parents get abortions if the infant is a girl. The united states because the child is just a parasite.

[meryt-tetisheri]

I think danielost is referring to two nations where abortions are motivated by cultural gender preference; at least this is how I understood his post.

[Wickian]

China due to their one child only policy. Parents get abortions if the infant is a girl. The united states because the child is just a parasite.

Call me cruel, but until the fetus grows to the point of being able to sustain it's own life it is technically a parasite. It takes from the host and gives nothing the host wants in return(assuming the host doesn't want a baby).

Granted most pregnancies that end up as abortions can easily be avoided with some common sense, trying to turn a woman into an unwilling baby factory isn't a much better moral choice in my opinion.

[Frank Merton]

Abortions are probably immoral, the later in the term the more immoral. Making them illegal however has consequences that are even worse.

[spacecowboy342]

Who has the right to judge morality for someone else? I would rather see abortions than abused or neglected children who had parents that either couldn't or wouldn't care for them

[Rlyeh]

China due to their one child only policy. Parents get abortions if the infant is a girl. The united states because the child is just a parasite.

No no, I said murder. Which nations murder children?

[Rlyeh]

That just makes things worse doesn't.

How does abortion make things worse?

[Frank Merton]

Abused and neglected and unwanted children who grow up to be criminals; abortion mills killing babies and mothers; mothers killing themselves in attempts at self-abortion. Things like that. Besides, such laws have to be enforced, which means more police and more jails and more intrusion into people's private lives.

[+and-then]

No no, I said murder. Which nations murder children?

The question raises another to me. What would you consider murder of children to mean? I believe abortion for convenience - which is mostly the case in the US - is wrong. But I also believe it is a choice a man and woman who created the child should make together - not the government. But when exactly would you consider ending the life of a baby as murder?

[Dark_Grey]

China due to their one child only policy. Parents get abortions if the infant is a girl. The united states because the child is just a parasite.

There is something that needs to be addressed here. Eventually, provided we don't end ourselves prematurely, ALL countries will have to adopt a similar policy. The planet isn't getting any bigger, we have finite resources as it is. Do we let every single fetus go to term if it means the destruction of our race as a whole? Think about that carefully.

Now think of China as a smaller scale version of our planet down the road.

[Frank Merton]

I don't see questions of morals as absolute they way Christians see sin. To a Christian to look at a woman with lust is as bad as raping her. I see that as nonsense.

Regarding abortions, they are not good and probably immoral, but not as bad as what tends to happen when the law tries to make them illegal.

[spacecowboy342]

Ironic that many of the same people who wail about government interference in economic and health care issues seem to insist upon it in moral issues

Edited November 29, 2013 by spacecowboy342

[Bendy Demon]

Do we let every single fetus go to term if it means the destruction of our race as a whole? Think about that carefully.

In this case, "thinking" should be translated as foresight. You know, as in thinking before letting the pony out of the stall sort of thing.

It's not really hard to do in an age where we like to think of ourselves as "enlightened".

A bit of thinking and self control can eliminate a majority of all those abortions.

[spacecowboy342]

In this case, "thinking" should be translated as foresight. You know, as in thinking before letting the pony out of the stall sort of thing.

It's not really hard to do in an age where we like to think of ourselves as "enlightened".

A bit of thinking and self control can eliminate a majority of all those abortions.

I would agree with that but there are those who would force someone to have a baby even when it was a product of rape or incest. Also I think the catholic church's position on birth control is insane. Over population is a clear danger. And I still think that though terrible abortion is still preferable to child neglect and abuse, and legal abortion is preferable to clothes hangers in alleys Edited November 29, 2013 by spacecowboy342

[Rlyeh]

The question raises another to me. What would you consider murder of children to mean?

The unlawful killing of a child.

But I also believe it is a choice a man and woman who created the child should make together - not the government. But when exactly would you consider ending the life of a baby as murder?

When done unlawfully.

I believe rules need to be followed, in which case the government needs to be involved somehow.

[Bendy Demon]

I would agree with that but there are those who would force someone to have a baby even when it was a product of rape or incest. Also I think the catholic church's position on birth control is insane. Over population is a clear danger. And I still think that though terrible abortion is still preferable to child neglect and abuse, and legal abortion is preferable to clothes hangers in alleys

I am aware of cases of assaults and all but that doesn't necessarily mean an abortion is inevitable.

It seems that all this "sex" education we are dumping onto our kids hasn't done much good. Maybe instead of focusing solely on what one wants there should be a greater focus on reality which entails actually being able to care for another life and thinking about that before having sex.

Awareness and responsibility isn't being taught and if it is, it needs to go far beyond just birth control.

While I agree that the government should back out of peoples lives, at the same time we need to behave in a manner that shows we are being responsible. But it seems that our society has increasingly taken to viewing all life as a mere commodity, something that is easily traded and/or disposed of the moment it is deemed "inconvenient" to us.

For decades, if not longer, we have viewed animals as disposable like so much trash so I am not surprised that we now view even children as nothing more than bags of trash to be disposed of once we feel they are inconvenient to us.

So the issue of how we treat children has a far deeper connotation than we care to think. It is always easier to think purely of what WE want rather than what is right, moral and ethical.

[spacecowboy342]

I am aware of cases of assaults and all but that doesn't necessarily mean an abortion is inevitable.

It seems that all this "sex" education we are dumping onto our kids hasn't done much good. Maybe instead of focusing solely on what one wants there should be a greater focus on reality which entails actually being able to care for another life and thinking about that before having sex.

Awareness and responsibility isn't being taught and if it is, it needs to go far beyond just birth control.

While I agree that the government should back out of peoples lives, at the same time we need to behave in a manner that shows we are being responsible. But it seems that our society has increasingly taken to viewing all life as a mere commodity, something that is easily traded and/or disposed of the moment it is deemed "inconvenient" to us.

For decades, if not longer, we have viewed animals as disposable like so much trash so I am not surprised that we now view even children as nothing more than bags of trash to be disposed of once we feel they are inconvenient to us.

So the issue of how we treat children has a far deeper connotation than we care to think. It is always easier to think purely of what WE want rather than what is right, moral and ethical.

I agree that responsibility for one's actions could be stressed more to children. But young people are young and make mistakes.It might also help to make birth control available to children rather than relying on abstinence. And no method of birth control is 100%. And I still remember the days before Roe vs Wade when back alley abortions were the only option for some.I don't like abortion either but would rather see them done safely if they are going to be done

[GollyBuster]

Naturally life begins at the moment of conception and aborting a fetus is an act of murder.

[spacecowboy342]

Naturally life begins at the moment of conception and aborting a fetus is an act of murder.

Then why are birth certificates issued and not conception certificates?At conception you are a single cell. A potential human but still only a cell. When you can exist outside the womb you are a person

[Rlyeh]

Naturally life begins at the moment of conception and aborting a fetus is an act of murder.

I'm betting your definition of murder doesn't apply to all life.