Those Who've Seen the Hatman/Shadow People

[JesseCuster]

I wasn't saying that sleep paralysis is mainly caused by this Hatman in general but what I've said if (since I wasn't clear enough) is that the presence of the Hatman could explain why certain people have nightmares during sleep paralysis (physical/psychological symptom) and that this Demonic presence puts the human being in a paralyzed state during sleep. That is, if the Hatman does actually exist.

But those things (nightmares, muscle atonia during sleep (paralysis) are known to happen in the absence of any sort of malevolent entity, so why propose a malevolent paranormal entity to explain that which already has an explanation?

And no, the Hatman is not an 'online fad'. This creature being talked about in places where people have no access to the internet, not did they in the past.

You have a citation for this? Keep in mind that in the case of Slenderman, people have invented a history for him, making up plausible sounding stories about medieval legends about him and going so far as to Photoshop old paintings, woodcuts, etc. to make it look like some sort of genuine ancient myth, when it is obviously a recent invention, but people believe the fake history and post it on websites as evidence for the reality of Slenderman.

What is your source for Hatman not being a recent invention but some sort of old myth?

Edited January 24, 2014 by JesseCuster

[JesseCuster]

I don't know too much about robed shadows or other shadows but I know that the man in the Fadora hat with a trench coat can be one of two things. A "strongman" or "slenderman". Their both dangerous I think...however one saved my life when I was lost in the woods for a night he scared me in another direction and pretty much guided me home. Slenderman is for sure bad though. Related to missing children. I would see him a lot as a child. I seem his face right up close too and it was congruent to a picture a concerned friend showed me which was painted of slenderman in Europe in the 1800s. Both strongmen and slender man date back in history and are seen by many.

Every single old "painting" I've seen of Slenderman has been a proven fake where someone has Photoshopped a genuine piece of art.

[Murlin54]

There is no strong documentation of this PRIOR to the internet going live, It's Just like slenderman.

I am reading backward through the thread as I only got up to page 13 and the last page yesterday before feeling compelled to add my 2 cents worth. Now I see the post above and I have to weigh in. First, perhaps there is no strong documentation prior to the internet going live (although I doubt it), BUT that does not change the fact that I am 59 years old and this happened to me long before the internet was ever invented. I was just a kid and had never heard any kind of stories about the hat man or even ghosts as I can recall. My family didn't get into anything like that. Ghost hunting and ghost shows were not a thing back then. It was Lawrence Welk and Ed Sullivan. So what can you make of my experience. Do you doubt my honesty? Do you think I made it up just to be part of the hat man circle? I admit I get a little skeptical when I read others posting about the hat man and his red eyes and the immense fear and evil he exuded. That is because it is not what I experienced and so one can't help but have difficulty relating to something that does not match their experience. However I think it is wrong to assume that people are just following the bandwagon and the hat man is just based on sleep paralysis or suggestion. We don't know that. It is a bit frustrating to me when I read all the materialist reductionist science folk criticizing ideas of great thinkers like Rupert Sheldrake and calling it pseudo science, when the morphic resonance theory makes more sense than most of what is proposed by those brilliant men of science that don't even understand what gravity is and have to keep making up new concepts to fit what does not fit their previous "theories" (not facts). eg String theory, dark matter, etc., etc. There are many things in this world that are not explained by conventional scientific or medical wisdom no matter how they slice and dice it. That's a fact Jack. (I mean Brian, lol)

Edited January 24, 2014 by Murlin54

[Murlin54]

But those things (nightmares, muscle atonia during sleep (paralysis) are known to happen in the absence of any sort of malevolent entity, so why propose a malevolent paranormal entity to explain that which already has an explanation?

You have a citation for this? Keep in mind that in the case of Slenderman, people have invented a history for him, making up plausible sounding stories about medieval legends about him and going so far as to Photoshop old paintings, woodcuts, etc. to make it look like some sort of genuine ancient myth, when it is obviously a recent invention, but people believe the fake history and post it on websites as evidence for the reality of Slenderman.

What is your source for Hatman not being a recent invention but some sort of old myth?

I am your source. Read my posts just prior to this then believe I am lying OR NOT. I know I am not, so I know for a fact the "hat man" is not a recent invention. It may be a figment of our imaginations but it is by no means a recent invention. I'm almost old as dirt. haha I was actually on a similar site a few years ago about ghosts and hauntings, just because I find it intriguing, when I came across someone describing exactly what had occurred to me in my childhood. I hadn't been telling the story around. In fact, I don't even recall taking about it with my immediate family, probably because I chalked it up to being a non-event, like I must have imagined it. It couldn't be real, or could it. Did I psychically share my experience in the universal consciousness and people morphed onto it? What psychic? Universal consciousness? Am I just talking woo here? Did you ever think you invented something, a saying or an idea, or even an experience, and then you suddenly see it being used by someone else? I can think of another example in my case (not remotely paranormal) where that happened. QUIT STEALING MY PARANORMAL EXPERIENCE PEOPLE! lol Or would a "cross my heart and hope to die," I'm not making this up help?

[JesseCuster]

I'm not talking about seeing shadow figures being a recent invention. When I was younger I believed that I had been visited by a malevolent shadowy figure on several occasions until I was able to do some research and find out that my experiences were entirely known and had a natural explanation. I know what it's like to see weird **** and believe you've had a paranormal experience. I've been there. I believe you've had some sort of genuine experience even though I don't buy into paranormal explanations for it.

I am talking about the specific character of "Hatman" with a fedora, red eyes, and all the other associated fantastic things that surround him. That is what Brian and I are referring to as a fictional character. Just like "Slenderman" or "The Rake" or the other creepypasta that does the rounds.

Where's the evidence that he is a known figure of myth and legend going back far in human history? Is there actual documented evidence of this or is it like the Slenderman, a bunch of fake nonsense doing the rounds?

Again, I'm not interested in stories about people seeing shadowy figures or being visited in the night by old hags and succubi, etc. I'm interested in the idea that the Hatman specifically is a real documented historical phenomenon.

ps: Calm down. No-one is stealing anything from you and I'm not accusing you of being a liar.

Edited January 24, 2014 by JesseCuster

[Murlin54]

haha, the caps thing was just a joke. I was being facetious, That is the problem with posting, People can't get when your joking or being serious. I agree that I am also at this point only interested in the hat man, and not in all the other stories so I am slogging through a lot of this thread. Not that I have a problem with other posters and their experiences, it is just not why I came to this site. I came to the site because I keep going back in my mind to the hat man. I did not call what I experienced the hat man. I only refer to it after having read stories that seem to have a commonality with my experience. My point with the all caps: QUIT STEALING etc. was just to point out the fact that isn't it a bit ridiculous to read that someone else can describe the EXACT thing you experienced as a child. Doesn't that make you stop and go HMMMM?

btw, did you read my first post re: my experience. No red eyes, no sense of evil. Just a tall dark man in a cowboy looking hat, staring down at me. I remember it very clearly though most of my childhood at that age is now just random bits and pieces. I remember squinting at it so that hopefully it would not realize that I was looking back at it. I keep reading all these other version about fedora's and Lincoln like top hats. Not my experience. I am a genealogist. If I google a one of my ancestors, Zacharie Cloutier, there is a drawing and the hat is of the same look. As a child I thought cowboy hat but could be more like the hat Zorro wore (gaucho?) or the hat you sometimes see on Pilgrims (also my ancestors). Not the tall hat with the buckle but the wider brimmed hat like the drawing of Zacharie Cloutier. I am just fascinated in this one version of the hat man because it it what I experienced and I find it uncanny to read that a few people report the same version of their experience. It's not like they copied it off me because I hadn't spread my story around in any way before having started to read stories of such amazing likeness to mine. Granted those similar stories are few and far between that match up with mine, but they are there nonetheless.

btw again, never heard of the Slenderman or the Strongman until now. Only ever heard of shadow people when I started watching The Ghost Hunters. Still didn't really relate that to my experience, as I didn't consider it a shadow. It appeared solid and real, not like a shadow.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Murlin54

[Roccafella]

U kno datz good u asked dat because I use 2 x my self dat alot and I read up on different kinds of things tryn 2 find out duh ansr 2 wut makes me so special dat an dark entity r aliens finds interest in me an duh ansr I came up wit was ever since I was a child I've always had dis wide spread gigantic imagination like I am dis great king r im dis great warrior r sum type of defender of good r evil wit my own rules , so do u c duh difference I do not believe in impossibility but possibility of unlimited proportion is wut I believe , so dat tells different kinds of beings good r evil , I can not b controlled and datz wut dair interested in , for example in order for me to build an army of great travelers I wud need great minds , minds dat does not have limitations to dair beliefs just like me but one wudnt b enough I need many like me ...

[JesseCuster]

U kno datz good u asked dat because I use 2 x my self dat alot and I read up on different kinds of things tryn 2 find out duh ansr 2 wut makes me so special dat an dark entity r aliens finds interest in me an duh ansr I came up wit was ever since I was a child I've always had dis wide spread gigantic imagination like I am dis great king r im dis great warrior r sum type of defender of good r evil wit my own rules , so do u c duh difference I do not believe in impossibility but possibility of unlimited proportion is wut I believe , so dat tells different kinds of beings good r evil , I can not b controlled and datz wut dair interested in , for example in order for me to build an army of great travelers I wud need great minds , minds dat does not have limitations to dair beliefs just like me but one wudnt b enough I need many like me ...

Wat?

Seriously dude, like previously posts where you were asked to break it down into sentences and paragraphs, you can't expect people to make sense of this word salad if you haven't made an attempt to present it in a sensible intelligilible fashion written using words that people are used to the spelling of.

"U know datz good u asked dat because I used 2 x my self dat alot...." is gibberish to anyone expecting a post written in plain intelligible English.

Edited January 28, 2014 by JesseCuster

[Roccafella]

U kno datz good u asked dat because I use 2 x my self dat alot and I read up on different kinds of things tryn 2 find out duh ansr 2 wut makes me so special dat an dark entity r aliens finds interest in me an duh ansr I came up wit was ever since I was a child I've always had dis wide spread gigantic imagination like I am dis great king r im dis great warrior r sum type of defender of good r evil wit my own rules , so do u c duh difference I do not believe in impossibility but possibility of unlimited proportion is wut I believe , so dat tells different kinds of beings good r evil , I can not b controlled and datz wut dair interested in , for example in order for me to build an army of great travelers I wud need great minds , minds dat does not have limitations to dair beliefs just like me but one wudnt b enough I need many like me ...

hey it takes some time for me to get use to ok . I'm always texting and trying not to make texts long , so other than a word , I just shorting it up, but be more down to earth and opened minded , not so programed to one way of thinking , it does not take an rocket scientist to understand my short text, but you be cool , and keep trying to get your likes on your comments ok, thankzzz ... Edited January 29, 2014 by Roccafella

[Skep B]

Don't worry i shall endeavor to translate to our more traditional literate friends

Rocafella wishes to say the following:

He is appreciative of the question being asked, as it was not long ago he asked himself many similar questions and went looking into some reading to gain knowledge of the subject. Hoping to discern what it was that drew these visitors to him. His hypothesis is that he has always had a very powerful imagination, being able to create worlds for him to play in as a child. He feels that this limitless imagination of his makes him seem uncontrollable to these beings, possibly because they have interest in open minds like his to join them in their intergalactic travels.

[Murlin54]

Don't worry i shall endeavor to translate to our more traditional literate friends

Rocafella wishes to say the following:

Thank you Kelevra. I got most of Roccafella's post but I didn't quite get the first sentence. The x threw me (= ask). So Roccafella thinks maybe the hat man is looking for recruits? That's interesting.

[Skep B]

Honestly I found it to be one of the more interesting theories

All due respect but i personally dont believe in it. But it seems like a good basis for a piece of fiction at the very least

[Roccafella]

I don't believe that other beings are trying to scare you, know that's not what I agree with from my experience with other beings . I think that if I was some creature, that people did not understand or believe exist , my intentions can be a verity of things like trying to convince you that what we thought of on a (imaginary) level can be an reality . When I was a little boy I use to tell my self how could this be reall, so reall and so unbelievable , that to this very moment in my life I still believe that if you've never had an experience on that level than you are (blessed) because you lacks the experience of witnessing the, paranormal , dimensional, extra dimensional , or supernatural beings . (Unbelievable) ...

Edited January 29, 2014 by Roccafella

[Skep B]

well, speaking in hypotheticals thats as solid some reason as Ive heard, that these supreme beings would be interested in lifting us up.

All i can say is Ive experienced nothing to cause me to believe in it

[Murlin54]

I'm starting to wonder if the hat man could be a case of morphic resonance if in fact such a thing exists. In my opinion the arguments for it are quite valid, even though the scientific community at large reject Rupert Sheldrake and his theories. He is a brilliant man. I will get his book next when I finish the rather large book I am now reading called: Is there an Afterlife: A comprehensive overview of the evidence". Sheldrake's book that I'm referring to is "Morphic Resonance: The Nature of Formative Causation. Here is the Amazon.com description of the book: "New updated and expanded edition of the groundbreaking book that ignited a firestorm in the scientific world with its radical approach to evolution

• Explains how past forms and behaviors of organisms determine those of similar organisms in the present through morphic resonance

• Reveals the nonmaterial connections that allow direct communication across time and space

When A New Science of Life was first published the British journal Nature called it “the best candidate for burning there has been for many years.” The book called into question the prevailing mechanistic theory of life when its author, Rupert Sheldrake, a former research fellow of the Royal Society, proposed that morphogenetic fields are responsible for the characteristic form and organization of systems in biology, chemistry, and physics--and that they have measurable physical effects. Using his theory of morphic resonance, Sheldrake was able to reinterpret the regularities of nature as being more like habits than immutable laws, offering a new understanding of life and consciousness.

In the years since its first publication, Sheldrake has continued his research to demonstrate that the past forms and behavior of organisms influence present organisms through direct immaterial connections across time and space. This can explain why new chemicals become easier to crystallize all over the world the more often their crystals have already formed, and why when laboratory rats have learned how to navigate a maze in one place, rats elsewhere appear to learn it more easily. With more than two decades of new research and data, Rupert Sheldrake makes an even stronger case for the validity of the theory of formative causation that can radically transform how we see our world and our future."

Maybe the worldwide tendency of people to see the hat man is related to this theory proposed by Sheldrake. It may also be an image that is embedded in our subconscious memory from some past connection. Who knows, maybe it's where the legend of sand man or even boogie man came from.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Murlin54

[Skep B]

So, a man published a book is rejected by science at large, but this theory, if its correct could explain, something that maybe exists

Thats alot of ifs and what have you

[Roccafella]

Why dont you say? I want to see an ghost or alien and I can guarantee you will see something unbelievably out of the ordinary . B4 dis year over wit ...

[Murlin54]

So, a man published a book is rejected by science at large, but this theory, if its correct could explain, something that maybe exists

Thats alot of ifs and what have you

Well, the problem with science at large is they are a bunch of materialist reductionist naysayers and don't believe in ghosts, apparitions or intelligent design for the most part, at least not the ones who discredit Sheldrake. If you don't know who Rupert Sheldrake is, with a little research you will see he is no goofball. I agree with him science is delusional. They refuse to see what they don't want to see or what can't be explained. If it doesn't fit their theory, we get dark matter, black holes, string theory.

Edited January 30, 2014 by Murlin54

[MrBene]

Science is delusional? Oh my.

Anyway, have all the people who actually see black shadows of people and old men wearing hats floating everywhere checked their heads lately? and I mean with a scanner. Are you 100% sure that you don't suffer a mental illness? and I mean verified by a certificated doctor (this doesn´t include your local shaman, spiritual guide, hippie friend or sorcerer).

I remember a local girl in my city that claimed many paranormal things happening in her house and she was diagnosed with a mental illness and there was nothing paranormal occuring, just in her head. The brain is tricky.

PS: Check your heads. Seriously. Even though you're not seeing unicorns floating there may be something wrong with you.

Edited January 30, 2014 by MrBene

[markprice]

Why dont you say? I want to see an ghost or alien and I can guarantee you will see something unbelievably out of the ordinary . B4 dis year over wit ...

They tried that over a year ago: How do I invite evil spirits to my home? - Spiritualism & Mediumship - Unexplained Mysteries Discussion Forums

[Brian Topp]

Well, the problem with science at large is they are a bunch of materialist reductionist naysayers and don't believe in ghosts, apparitions or intelligent design for the most part, at least not the ones who discredit Sheldrake. If you don't know who Rupert Sheldrake is, with a little research you will see he is no goofball. I agree with him science is delusional. They refuse to see what they don't want to see or what can't be explained. If it doesn't fit their theory, we get dark matter, black holes, string theory.

You are acting like the scientists are a bunch of faceless crowd of evil doers, Like people who say "them". Us and them and yet you can't point out who them is and how they are different from us.

Murlin54, Have you actually researched or worked with scientists or you just echoing some one else opinion?

Scientists do not hang together, Scientists do not even agree with each other on theories or methods, scientists do agree on one thing which is called "Controlled experimentation". This is when they do the tests and get the same results and it takes years of research and takes even longer to get credibility, it isn't like on TV, where something is found and next day it is all over the news.

Now, If you had those news articles/shows where they say "Scientists discovered that breathing more air and drinking more water helps you lose weight" are not really scientists, that is pseudoscience or media picking some college kids article and treat it is as evidence.

I think you are mixing cynics or skepics with scientists, any one can claim they are a scientist but when they provide their claims, it is pseudoscience

Edited January 30, 2014 by Brian Topp

[markprice]

When A New Science of Life was first published the British journal Nature called it “the best candidate for burning there has been for many years.” The book called into question the prevailing mechanistic theory of life when its author, Rupert Sheldrake, a former research fellow of the Royal Society, proposed that morphogenetic fields are responsible for the characteristic form and organization of systems in biology, chemistry, and physics--and that they have measurable physical effects. Using his theory of morphic resonance, Sheldrake was able to reinterpret the regularities of nature as being more like habits than immutable laws, offering a new understanding of life and consciousness.

​Looks like science has become what it hated: a dogmatic book-burning religion. That must be another habit of nature, and corruption.

edit: seems to be some ghost text that does not show up to be edited out at the beginning of that sentence.

Edited January 30, 2014 by markprice

[JesseCuster]

If it doesn't fit their theory, we get dark matter, black holes, string theory.

You say this like it's a bad thing. Of course any open and honest endeavour will adapt and add to their theories to explain things that they discover that don't fit the existing theory. That's how science should work.

Dark matter is the name given to a hypothetical unseen substance that could explain the observations about the behaviour of galaxies where they seem to be behaving as if there's a lot more matter in them than observation suggests. It's something that is very much research in progress and hasn't simply been blurted out and bolted on in the hope of patching a leaky ship.

Black holes have been found and their existence is pretty much rock solid. I don't know what your objection to them are.

String theory is an attempt at a mathematical framework that will encompass both what is known about quantum physics and general relativity, 2 very important modern theories that don't play well together when scientists try to use both in the same situation. It's still quite fringe and hasn't made it into the mainstream of everyday physics and a lot of physicists reject it as being too theoretical and not grounded enough in reality. It's also from my understanding quite fragmented with several different versions being played around with.

You made it sound like these were hasty on-the-spot inventions designed to plug holes in scientific theories that are falling apart at the seams. This kind of stuff takes a long time to prove itself and get accepted into the mainstream. Look at the Higgs mechanism. It was a prediction of Peter Higgs that the Higgs boson should exist if certain aspects of quantum physics were true. His original paper was written back in the 1960s and it took almost 50 years and the construction of one of the most enormous and expensive machines ever built in order to find the evidence before he was eventually proven right. They don't just shrug their shoulders and shoehorn in any old nonsense that they think fits their theories.

You sound like a lot of people I've come across here and other forums. Science doesn't accept your own pet theory - ghosts/intelligent design/young earth creationism/fake moon landings/[insert pet theory here]/etc. - therefore it's a biased endeavour more concerned with promoting its own pseudoscience and ignoring your valid theories. If you actually read up on the history of science and how it works today, you'd know that is an extremely simplistic and naive viewpoint. Of course it isn't perfect and biases and petty politics can play their part (like any human endeavour), but that isn't the big picture.

Edited January 30, 2014 by JesseCuster

[moonshadow60]

I have never seen a hat man or a shadow person that I know of, but I have seen things that are hard to explain, such as what I thought was a teenage boy strolling across the lawn with a trench coat on, was dressed in dark colors but not black, and when it turned in my direction there was no face where there should have been, only a blank space. My mother also saw this, so it wasn't just me. Is that a shadow person? I have no idea, but it scared me just about to death.

[Skep B]

Why dont you say? I want to see an ghost or alien and I can guarantee you will see something unbelievably out of the ordinary . B4 dis year over wit ...

I'm a skeptic, of course I want to see these things.

However, even if I saw something, as i thought to have before, it has always been able to be explained by a mundane aspect of life.