[Merged] Madeleine McCann

[Mr.United_Nations]

any news? its gone dead quiet now

[skookum]

any news? its gone dead quiet now

No the McCann's vs Amaral libel trial is adjourned to the 27th, then expect another week of releases.

[Aaronsmom]

I read the articles about Ben Needham. That is one sad story, particularly the long piece on how the Needham family coped over 20 years following the baby's disappearance. So tragic, how the family was torn apart and the lives of all of them practically ruined. I have no idea how people get through traumas of that magnitude, especially those that drag on without answers as the years pass. It's a wonder anyone enduring such a nightmare keeps his or her sanity. My heart really goes out to the whole family. I can imagine the guilt all or most of them carry concerning Ben's disappearance. Not that I think any of them deserve blame; just that I'm sure they all do. For what it's worth, it really sounds to me more likely the child fell into a crevice or hole than he was abducted. It could have happened, of course, but an unfortunate accident is a better explanation. If that's what happened, I really hope the excavation turns up something. God knows that family needs some peace.

[Regi]

an unfortunate accident is a better explanation.

I found an article describing the area as having wells! Now, that scenario reminds me of Jessica McClure, the Midland Texas toddler who fell through that 12"(?) well pipe in the late '80's.

Good Lord! If there are/were wells in that area, then that's where they need to search!

http://www.theguardi.../30/comment.uk1

I really hope the excavation turns up something.

Forgive me, Aaronsmom. I should have pointed out that the article about the excavation was from 2012, so they've completed whatever excavating they'd planned to do at the time.

Edited November 9, 2013 by regi

[Aaronsmom]

Oh I'm sorry....I didn't realize. So nothing was found? Ach, that poor family!

If there were wells on the property, I would say that's probably the likely explanation. I'm surprised they didn't search all of them first off.

[Monkfish]

Looks like it's all about to kick off again. Another dead end, possibly or hopefully some sort of closure for the family who have endured enough.

[skookum]

Doubt they will find anything. Reading into it these are just theories.

One area to be dug up is a road that had road works taking place. The met feel she may have wandered off, fell down a hole and workman filled it in not noticing the next day. The other area is some wasteland, it is heavily fenced off and surrounded by apartments. The ground would have been baked hard and it would have been a hell of an effort in full view many villas for somebody trying to conceal a body.

The beach was heavily searched in the original investigation. There was a sighting of somebody lifting something in and out of a boat by the resort child worker. Searches revealed nothing then and I believe the infamous dogs were used.

Reports say the parents have been informed this is purely to eliminate theories that were put forward in the early Portuguese investigation.

Only a week or so ago Scotland Yard claimed that three arrests in Portugal were imminent in the next few days. Like so many of the stories and press releases they just vanish never to be acted or spoken about again.

This is an investigation that has taken 3 years so far, 30 detectives and 7 million pounds. In this time not a single person has been arrested or questioned. Detectives have flown to Portugal many times and a guy on another forum tried to freedom of information how many officers and how many times. The request was refused.

I think the police have come to a point were they have to look like something is actually happening.

Edited May 7, 2014 by skookum

[Mr.United_Nations]

Crimewatch neever really gave us an update, what happened to that guy that was seen wearin a red jumper with a large 0 in white? England Rugby jumper? the only theory i have is that why was the other girls not taken in the recent break ins? I sill believe that the McCanns are hiding something, family problems? who knows? and no one really knows about the family in depth.

[Still Waters]

Looks like it's all about to kick off again. Another dead end, possibly or hopefully some sort of closure for the family who have endured enough.

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=266101

[Regi]

These investigators are impressive. It's evident they're conducting a thorough investigation as they continue to exhaust any and all leads in this very difficult (stranger abduction)- and very cold- case.

[Mr.United_Nations]

http://www.parentdish.co.uk/2014/04/28/madeleine-mccann-missing-new-information-pot-bellied-suspect-wore-t-shirt-bearing-super-bock-logo/?ncid=edlinkukpare00000648

Seems someone who worked nearby wearing a logo t shirt, what happened to the guy with the Red shirt with the big O? looks like they are trying to get anyone who was nearby.

[Monkfish]

Sadly with a few notable and recent exceptions most child kidnap victims never seem to re-emerge. I suppose having abducted, abused and murdered a small child, the evidence isn't too difficult to conceal. Digging up Pria Da Luz is probably not going to reveal too much unless it triggers some sort of reaction or recollection.

The interest generated by the family has no doubt driven the investigations and the chances of them ever giving up without a solid conclusion is slim. Personally I don't see much hope and it's likely to blight their lives forever.

[CuriousLittleOne]

i completly believe that she was killed , anywhere up to 2-3 months after she was taken, also , remember that her blood was found in the mccans rental car

[Aaronsmom]

A small correction, Curious: it wasn't blood that was found. It was some tiny smear of something the Portuguese police claimed was a match to the girl's DNA. No one ever said it was blood. I can't recall now the details, but I read somewhere this claim was later disproved. It never made any sense to me how or why the child's DNA would be in a car the McCann's rented AFTER the disappearance was reported. That family was followed everywhere they went by cameras and reporters until they left Portugal. No way could they sneak off in the rental car to recover a hidden corpse to dispose of it somewhere. The press surrounded them every second they were in Portugal.

It's sad IMO how there are always members of the public who feel sure a missing child's parents or other family are behind it. Not just initially but forever. Yes, sometimes it IS the family, and statistically it's far more likely a missing child came to a bad end at the hands of parents/family members and the family covers up by spinning a "must have been snatched" story. But "more likely" isn't always. Quite often, children are taken by strangers or non-related people who know the child/family. That's what's sad, because often in true abduction cases, the parents/family remain under a cloud of suspicion by some when in reality, they are innocent victims too. It's still painful to me how accusing people were of the family in the Jessica Lundsford abduction, primarily, I think, because the family lived in a trailer park. They were regarded as "white trash" by many, and people assumed the worst of them. All the while, this poor little girl was being held captive a few hundred feet from her home by a paedoophile, enduring the most unimaginable horrors for days...until she was stuffed into a plastic trash bag and buried alive behind the trailer where she had been held prisoner. Very, very sad.

It's possible if Madeline is never found the McCanns won't ever accept it and will pursue the search until their last breath. That would be tragic. The parents of Etan Patz held out hope for years Etan would be found, alive and unharmed someday. Eventually, however, they came to terms with the likelihood of the boy's death and that they would never have answers, and they went to court to have Etan declared legally dead. I think most families of the long-term missing do accept the reality their loved one is lost forever. And they move on...as much as anyone can in a situation like that. Some may achieve a measure of healing,

and experience at least periodic joys and pleasures. For others, though, their lives really are ruined. I hope that won't be the case with the McCanns.

[Regi]

It's sad IMO how there are always members of the public who feel sure a missing child's parents or other family are behind it. Not just initially but forever. Yes, sometimes it IS the family, and statistically it's far more likely a missing child came to a bad end at the hands of parents/family members and the family covers up by spinning a "must have been snatched" story. But "more likely" isn't always. Quite often, children are taken by strangers or non-related people who know the child/family. That's what's sad, because often in true abduction cases, the parents/family remain under a cloud of suspicion by some when in reality, they are innocent victims too. It's still painful to me how accusing people were of the family in the Jessica Lundsford abduction, primarily, I think, because the family lived in a trailer park. They were regarded as "white trash" by many, and people assumed the worst of them. All the while, this poor little girl was being held captive a few hundred feet from her home by a paedoophile, enduring the most unimaginable horrors for days...until she was stuffed into a plastic trash bag and buried alive behind the trailer where she had been held prisoner. Very, very sad.

You've made a good point regarding stranger abduction, but I think if the Lundsford's were more heavily scrutinized, it was because the abduction was from the child's own bed.

(Now, I didn't follow that story as the events unfolded, but I'm familiar with the case.)

Yes, in that particular circumstance, the perp is often a neighbor and if not a neighbor, he's known to the family or knows of the family and so for that reason and without a doubt, the fact that Madeleine's abduction occurred at a resort makes it a far more complex and therefore, extraordinarily difficult investigation.

[skookum]

A small correction, Curious: it wasn't blood that was found. It was some tiny smear of something the Portuguese police claimed was a match to the girl's DNA. No one ever said it was blood. I can't recall now the details, but I read somewhere this claim was later disproved. It never made any sense to me how or why the child's DNA would be in a car the McCann's rented AFTER the disappearance was reported. That family was followed everywhere they went by cameras and reporters until they left Portugal. No way could they sneak off in the rental car to recover a hidden corpse to dispose of it somewhere. The press surrounded them every second they were in Portugal.

They did give everyone the slip on the trip to Huelva. This trip is very controversial as nobody has really explained why go there? It was originally scheduled for the 2nd August but they cancelled it due to an illness. They actually went on the 3rd August and drove the 190km into Spain.

They reported themselves in blogs that they were not followed and didn't have the press with them. They left at 9am on a journey that should take no longer than 2 hours. They actually arrived at 12.15 to a deserted Huelva due to it being a public holiday.

Skeptics of the McCann's version of events have studied this journey intensely. The Portuguese police also noted the car had mileage discrepancies as well as the missing time. In addition mobile phone pings apparently have them at various locations off the main route that would have been taken.

This journey is seen by the skeptics as their key evidence. The theory put forward was that the body could have been stored in a freezer and then disposed of on this trip. They claim that this is the reason the dogs detected blood and cadaver odour in the hire car. Further evidence they claim is down to their heavy Catholic beliefs in visiting a grave exactly 3 months after the passing. The trip took place exactly 3 months after.

In my opinion they would have taken one hell of a risk transporting a body in a hire car. However the hire car does have strange things surrounding it.

Unexplained mileage

Blood

Cadaver odour

Booked on Gerry's credit card when he had already stated under questioning he had no credit cards.

The car being left with the boot open for many days after trip.

Edited May 16, 2014 by skookum

[Regi]

I'm at a complete loss over how anything to do with that rental car could be related to the crime.

Seriously, the only possible way I can think of to even attempt to relate it to the crime would be to consider that whomever previously rented the car was somehow connected.

[skookum]

I'm at a complete loss over how anything to do with that rental car could be related to the crime.

Seriously, the only possible way I can think of to even attempt to relate it to the crime would be to consider that whomever previously rented the car was somehow connected.

The car was unbooked between 12th April to the 8th May when a British guy had rental of it for the weeks before McCann's. The mileage records showed it had only covered about a kilometer in the time it wasn't rented. When they received the vehicle it had 3114km, by September it had covered 14443. That is 11,000km or about 7,000 miles, roughly translated to 420 miles a week.

Other people had access to the car as well with various additional drivers added from time to time.

To the contrary of UK press reports the Police did seem to carry out very extensive investigations along various lines of inquiries.

Edited May 16, 2014 by skookum

[Regi]

Well, I'm still at a complete loss. I don't get what 'this' has to do with 'that' and then 'the other thing', but hey, that's okay.

[skookum]

Well, I'm still at a complete loss. I don't get what 'this' has to do with 'that' and then 'the other thing', but hey, that's okay.

Well to cut a long story short. One of the lines of inquiry was the possibility that the McCann's or Tapas friends concealed the body in an apartment supplied by the only other suspect at the time Robert Murat. The body was hidden in a freezer until they could find a time to move the body and dispose of it using the hire car.

Forensics showed signs of the girls DNA in the boot and blood that had been frozen at some point. The forensics were tested in the UK and considered a 90 odd percent match however the car wasn't suitably contained, in fact it was driven to the police station which puts big doubts over contamination.

The McCann's have always claimed the blood was from some Sea bass that had leaked into the boot and the airing was to get rid of the smell of that and dirty nappies. The car was seen as crucial evidence as the elite British Cadaver dogs had alerted them to it in the first place.

However people feel about this theory the evidence is too flimsy to stand up due to the way the forensics were collected.

Edited May 17, 2014 by skookum

[Aaronsmom]

You've made a good point regarding stranger abduction, but I think if the Lundsford's were more heavily scrutinized, it was because the abduction was from the child's own bed.

(Now, I didn't follow that story as the events unfolded, but I'm familiar with the case.)

Yes, in that particular circumstance, the perp is often a neighbor and if not a neighbor, he's known to the family or knows of the family and so for that reason and without a doubt, the fact that Madeleine's abduction occurred at a resort makes it a far more complex and therefore, extraordinarily difficult investigation.

Yes, she was taken from her bed with her grandparents sleeping in the other room, and they were the last known people to have seen Jessica. That's always where an investigation starts. What disturbed me was how harshly judgmental people were of the family based in very superficial facts of their life. I think living in a trailer was a big part of that. I recall the father was crucified by true crime buffs for being an ugly, greasy-haired, low life biker (rode a motorcycle) who was stay at his GF's the night JF went missing. I read comments like what a slime the guy was for leaving his daughter for the night to "hook up" with some GF, as though he had no right to have a personal life as a single father, or as though he had left her by herself when she was in the care of her grandparents WHO LIVED WITH THEM! The police made them take lie detector tests, naturally, but someone told the media that her grandmother had failed the test. That was wrong to do that. The worst thing I think, though, was they ran a background check on the three of them and the police leaked that the grandfather had an arrest for petty theft when he was in his early

20s. Since then, totally clean. So some of the public suspicious of the family seized this as a red flag the family were criminals, as though millions of people don't have minor skeletons in their closet. It was criminal, IMO...especially when I think of what was happening to that poor girl while her family was being tried in the court of unlucky opinion. It made me ill.

[Aaronsmom]

Yikes! That should read "...while her family was being tried in the court of •public• opinion", not "unlucky opinion." LOL Yes, it was unlucky, but that's not what I meant to say. I love my iPhone, but it's almost "too good". If I hit the wrong key or skip a letter while typing a word, the auto-correct feature will try to guess what I'm trying to say and takes it upon itself to substitute another word, often saying something not even close to right. I really wonder what I wrote for it to go from public opinion to unlucky.

[skookum]

Well the latest from Scotland Yard is

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27514800

Be interesting if anything will happen as the imminent arrest of suspects, digging up the resort and the identification of the bin man have all been press hype with no actual action.

[Duke Wellington]

I'm at a complete loss over how anything to do with that rental car could be related to the crime.

Seriously, the only possible way I can think of to even attempt to relate it to the crime would be to consider that whomever previously rented the car was somehow connected.

Criminologists know the thought processess that murderers go through when disposing of bodies:

1 - The culprit travels away from where they live, kills and then leaves the body. The travelling is so that Police attention isnt drawn to the area that they live in.

2 - The culprit murders where they live and then travels away to dump the body. By disposing of the corpse a distance away from their location they hope to avoid Police attention being drawn onto them.

The Portuguese Police will have quickly ascertained the McCanns as being likely suspects and then sat back to watch how they behave (as opposed to the UK media portraying them as doing nothing). Sure enough a hire car is rented and the McCanns go for a long trip to Spain. It wont be the only thing that raised eyebrows at the Portugeuse Police Station running the investigation. You'd be surprised at what criminologists know about how murderers behave.

I think everybody is in a cat and mouse game here to get enough evidence to prosecute the McCanns. They know it themselves too!

Edited May 22, 2014 by RabidMongoose

[skookum]

I think everybody is in a cat and mouse game here to get enough evidence to prosecute the McCanns. They know it themselves too!

Personally I think it is all a whitewash to cover up the truth whatever it may be.

To many powerful people became closely involved within hours of the disappearance. This 5 million pound investigation has so far come up with the most ludicrous suggestions with regards to suspects so far. I think we are hitting a point were they will need to wind it down soon unless they can make an arrest/arrests.

When you look at this case and the resources used compared to the Ben Needham case it is truly unbelievable.