Jonbenet's Killer Mr. Cruel

[Regi]

I know, but its very little and could be even from the manufacturing firm. It was not body fluids or anything like that. I think it was from skin cells and very little.

I'm referring to blood collected from the crouch of the underwear.

[EmmasMommy]

I get what you're saying about the DNA. Most people hear "DNA in underwear" and automatically assume seaman. But it could have been from any other source.

[mbrn30000]

I'm referring to blood collected from the crouch of the underwear.

The blood was jonbenet's as I recall. They detected dna that was not hers but male, but it's not the male's blood. The dna tests that were done last were the touch dna. They assumed if she was dressed and undressed the perp would have touched her in certain places and that is the new dna. Most likely from skin. I think some reports said that the blood spots were tested earlier and also contained some of the male dna. But the blood was from her. I am curious why forensics rarely do any type of dna testing that can determine ethnic background. I know some websites offer people self testing for genealogy. Seems it might narrow suspects if they used it. Maybe they do, but I never hear about it.

Edited June 9, 2014 by mbrn30000

[redpill]

@redpill

Thank you for bringing the Mr. Cruel case to my attention. I had never heard if it before.

That being said, after doing a little research (including the information in the link of your original post) I honestly don't see the connection. I couldn't find any similarities between the two cases. (other than victims being children) But like I said, I've never herd of Mr. Cruel so I will continue to see what I can find.

what are the major components of case linkage analysis?

[Regi]

The blood was jonbenet's as I recall. They detected dna that was not hers but male, but it's not the male's blood. The dna tests that were done last were the touch dna. They assumed if she was dressed and undressed the perp would have touched her in certain places and that is the new dna. Most likely from skin. I think some reports said that the blood spots were tested earlier and also contained some of the male dna. But the blood was from her.

My impression is that the blood sample included another specimen sufficient for exclusion, but where ever if was actually from (I know it was from somewhere inside the underwear) and what ever it actually was (I know it wasn't semen) it excluded the family and that was info. learned early on in the investigation. There were also fingernail scrapings and an unidentified pubic hair on a blanket.

Yes, the skin cells, which were collected from areas of the underwear and the waistband of the long johns, weren't collected/analyzed until years later.

[dr no]

If it is Mr Cruel why change his M.O,Jonbenet was murdered in the house,as far as I know Mr Cruel abducted his victims.Did he ever do a practice note in the house of his victims like the Ramsey case

[EmmasMommy]

what are the major components of case linkage analysis?

Behavior, Consistency, Time Frame, Victimology, Motive, ect...

But like I said before, the only similarities between the two cases I can see for now is the children.

[redpill]

Behavior, Consistency, Time Frame, Victimology, Motive, ect...

But like I said before, the only similarities between the two cases I can see for now is the children.

you're missing the crucial ones

[Likely Guy]

you're missing the crucial ones

Well, perhaps you could offer them.

[redpill]

you're missing the crucial ones

Well, perhaps you could offer them.

sure no problem

i'm happy to do so

click

http://www.crimeshot...ead.php?t=11934

Edited June 9, 2014 by redpill

[mbrn30000]

Behavior, Consistency, Time Frame, Victimology, Motive, ect...

But like I said before, the only similarities between the two cases I can see for now is the children.

I agree. Other than the victims being children, there are no other similarities. The Mr. Cruel victims were not all killed. One was shot. None involved a ransom note. The parents were tied up. The crimes were on the other side of the world. Where do I stop? Mr. Cruel is an interesting case, but it has nothing to do with the ramsey's.

[Regi]

Yeah, I see no connection whatsoever with the Ramsey case, but that other perp's apparent knowledge of evidence collection is intriguing, especially considering those cases occurred in '88 and '90!

[EmmasMommy]

sure no problem

i'm happy to do so

click

http://www.crimeshot...ead.php?t=11934

No, I'm not gonna go all click happy all over the internet searching for the point you are trying to make when you can just say what you need to say here. I'm very interested in hearing your's and everyone else's opinion as I am fascinated with true crime, mysteries ect... but I'm not going to go on a wild goose chase when the reason this and all forums exists is so that we can communicate with each other in one spot.

I agree. Other than the victims being children, there are no other similarities. The Mr. Cruel victims were not all killed. One was shot. None involved a ransom note. The parents were tied up. The crimes were on the other side of the world. Where do I stop? Mr. Cruel is an interesting case, but it has nothing to do with the ramsey's.

Agreed. There are huge differences between MC and JBR. He used a knife and a gun in every attack. JBR was strangled. Only 1 of his victims died. He assaulted and tied up the others in the houses. He disabled everyones phones. And a spray painted message is hardly equivalent to a ransom note. Again, I see no connection.

Edited June 9, 2014 by EmmasMommy

[Likely Guy]

No, I'm not gonna go all click happy all over the internet searching for the point you are trying to make when you can just say what you need to say here. I'm very interested in hearing your's and everyone else's opinion as I am fascinated with true crime, mysteries ect... but I'm not going to go on a wild goose chase when the reason this forum exists is so that we can communicate with each other in one spot.

Well put. More concise than the reply I was going to give. Which forum is this anyway?

[EmmasMommy]

True Crime

Jonbenet's Killer Mr. Cruel

[Likely Guy]

True Crime

Jonbenet's Killer Mr. Cruel

Thanks for that. I was still reading that vapid wall of text at CrimeShots.

[2-B]

There is an author who says that her killer was Edward Edwards.

John A. Cameron.

I heard Cameron interviewed on the radio. I'd like to see what evidence he has to offer in his book since he's attempting to link Edwards to a great many more murders than JonBenet's.

That said, on Cameron's website he provides a link to some pages from Edwards' book that are pretty eerie in light of JB's death. One of Edwards' early murders was the 1946 killing of a six year old named Suzanne Degnan, whom he raped and killed in a basement. In these pages, he describes the origins of "basement sex" in his twisted mind:

http://coldcasecameron.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/edward-wayne-edwards-book-what-girls-are-for.pdf

Cameron places him in Colorado near Boulder in December 1996, BTW. Interesting enough to at least consider, IMO.

[mbrn30000]

I heard Cameron interviewed on the radio. I'd like to see what evidence he has to offer in his book since he's attempting to link Edwards to a great many more murders than JonBenet's.

That said, on Cameron's website he provides a link to some pages from Edwards' book that are pretty eerie in light of JB's death. One of Edwards' early murders was the 1946 killing of a six year old named Suzanne Degnan, whom he raped and killed in a basement. In these pages, he describes the origins of "basement sex" in his twisted mind:

http://coldcasecamer...rls-are-for.pdf

Cameron places him in Colorado near Boulder in December 1996, BTW. Interesting enough to at least consider, IMO.

I had not heard of Mr. Cameron. I did a quick search and it seems he has linked edwards to a handful of infamous cases which casts doubt for me on his sincerity. I do think they entered the unknow males DNA in the FBI's CODIS so i would hope Edward's DNA has already been compared. But he tries to argue Chandra Levy and such and I think someone already is doing time for that. I would be curious of how he knows Edwards was in Boulder but not curious enough to buy his book. But you are right, Edwards should be compared to a lot of cases, since he was clearly a serial killer who traveled alot.

[dr no]

I had not heard of Mr. Cameron. I did a quick search and it seems he has linked edwards to a handful of infamous cases which casts doubt for me on his sincerity. I do think they entered the unknow males DNA in the FBI's CODIS so i would hope Edward's DNA has already been compared. But he tries to argue Chandra Levy and such and I think someone already is doing time for that. I would be curious of how he knows Edwards was in Boulder but not curious enough to buy his book. But you are right, Edwards should be compared to a lot of cases, since he was clearly a serial killer who traveled alot.

It seems highly unlikely Edwards is the Zodiac,Atlanta Child Murderer,The Babysitter killer,the Black Dahlia killer,the killer of Jimmy Hoffa and Sam Sheppards wife plus the murderer of the 3 boys in West Memphis between numerous one off killings and family massacres.I think he's probably good for more killings but I don't buy he's involved in all these cases

[EmmasMommy]

I have heard of EE and even done a little research on him in relation to the 1980 "Sweetheart Murders". In total he is officially responsible for 5 murders, but had admitted to several more. If I remember correctly there are somewhere around 4-5, give or take, law enforcement/detective type people that believe he could be responsible for upwards of 100. I'm sure he has more victims out there and maybe 1 or even 2 of the "high profile, infamous" cases could be arbitrated to him, but I personally find it highly unlikely that he did them all. But what do I know. He could be the mother of all killers, the worst the world has ever seen.

[EmmasMommy]

If anyone is interested, here's John Cameron's web site dedicated to Edwards and his book.

It's worth a look IMO.

http://coldcasecameron.com/

Edited June 10, 2014 by EmmasMommy

[mbrn30000]

If anyone is interested, here's John Cameron's web site dedicated to Edwards and his book.

It's worth a look IMO.

http://coldcasecameron.com/

Thanks for the link. This writer is a bit farfetched. I think edwards probably did a lot more crimes including murder but I really doubt he had anything to do with any of these crimes. This writer seems to have made a list of the most publicized murders and wrote a book to sell books. His list is a who's who in murder. Kind of bogus. But edwards's dna should continue to be compared to unsolved crimes and any other murders for that matter. He was a bad dude.

[EmmasMommy]

Thanks for the link. This writer is a bit farfetched. I think edwards probably did a lot more crimes including murder but I really doubt he had anything to do with any of these crimes. This writer seems to have made a list of the most publicized murders and wrote a book to sell books. His list is a who's who in murder. Kind of bogus. But edwards's dna should continue to be compared to unsolved crimes and any other murders for that matter. He was a bad dude.

I totally agree. He was a horrible man. I'm sure he did alot more than we know, but, like you said, I doubt he had anything to do with any of these.

[2-B]

Thanks for the link. This writer is a bit farfetched. I think edwards probably did a lot more crimes including murder but I really doubt he had anything to do with any of these crimes. This writer seems to have made a list of the most publicized murders and wrote a book to sell books. His list is a who's who in murder. Kind of bogus. But edwards's dna should continue to be compared to unsolved crimes and any other murders for that matter. He was a bad dude.

I had mixed feelings listening to the Cameron interview because it was short on specifics linking Edwards to any of the notorious crimes like JonBenet's--although many authors hawking books are reluctant to spill details precisely b/c they *are* trying to sell product. :-)

Cameron's book is pretty pricey, so I'm not running out to buy it now.....

OTOH, he's not so much a writer as a law enforcement guy. From his bio on his website (linked above):

John A. Cameron’s Bio

John A. Cameron is a 53 year old retired police detective from Great Falls, Montana. His career in law enforcement began in 1979. He retired in 2005 as a sergeant of detectives, working cold cases. He has worked on FBI serial killer task forces, catching ritualistic child cannibal killer, Nathan Bar-Jonah. His cases have been featured on America’s Most Wanted, Dateline NBC, and he helped produce a series known as ‘Most Evil’ on TruTV. In 2010, while working as an analyst for the Montana Board of Pardons and Parole in Deer Lodge Prison, Montana, he was in a position to access information that had been kept secret for 55 years, unraveling the most intelligent serial killer ever.

All that makes me give him at least some benefit of the doubt until I do further exploration. Hard to fathom Edwards is responsible for so many high profile crimes, but stranger things have happened.....

[regeneratia]

I heard Cameron interviewed on the radio. I'd like to see what evidence he has to offer in his book since he's attempting to link Edwards to a great many more murders than JonBenet's.

That said, on Cameron's website he provides a link to some pages from Edwards' book that are pretty eerie in light of JB's death. One of Edwards' early murders was the 1946 killing of a six year old named Suzanne Degnan, whom he raped and killed in a basement. In these pages, he describes the origins of "basement sex" in his twisted mind:

http://coldcasecamer...rls-are-for.pdf

Cameron places him in Colorado near Boulder in December 1996, BTW. Interesting enough to at least consider, IMO.

One of the best interviews on C2C in a long, long, long time.

We have a case in Kansas of a missing teen in 1988, that fits so much the profile of Ed Edwards. Some links:

Anyway, I wondered if a local missing teen might be one of those hidden murders of Edwards'.

It happened in Leavenworth county. Wondering if Leach's dad worked at Lansing or Leavenworth prisons, prior to Edwards' release. The Leach body has never been found, and the family is still looking.

Here is a copy and paste from Lawrence Journal World, upon very brief search: June 7, 1990

Leach began circulating the petitions in early May, asking people to show their support for a continued investigation into the case of Randy Leach, who vanished more than two years ago. Randy, a Linwood High School senior at the time, was last seen about 2 a.m. April 16, 1988, at a rural Linwood graduation party. Neither Randy nor the family car, a 1985 gray Dodge 400, have not been seen since.

Leach repeatedly has expressed his disappointment in the local investigation, but Leavenworth County officials have stood by their efforts to solve Randy's case.

This family has had little peace for almost two decades.

http://www2.ljworld....ing_leach_case/

http://coldcasecameron.com/buy-book/

I have not read the book. Am wondering if you have and is there a really great link to JB;s murder.

It might be a good idea to start a running thread on Edward Edwards.

Edited June 10, 2014 by regeneratia