Malaysian airliner Terrorist attack gone awry

[SHaYap]

EoT ....

I am in Malaysia ... each and everyday I am keeping up to date with the keenest attention I am able to put to it ~ and all the links you provide that claims the 'Malaysian Government' is doing is just not there ... it is all based on poor understanding of the local Language ... and most times on purpose to paint them in poor light ~ smear campaign ~ mud slings ~ and you are complicit ~ the same as those who spreads the lies regarding Islam being the scourge of the world and worse ~ and those that are complicit to those lies ... you just sat yourself into the same pot as they ~

Just look at the 'dates' of the reports you provide ... you are falling into the blind logic trap ~ it is an on going investigation ~ and all of those speculative reports you link here is getting tiresomely outdated ~ not to mention poorly (not to mention desperate) researched ~

You are providing nothing helpful and frankly ... it makes you look like a silly duck caught wet on dry land ~ saving face is one thing Earl ~ you looking the horse up the wrong end ~

~

[SHaYap]

~ related UPDATE ~

Global Crisis Communications Conference [GC3] 2014 will be held in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia from 20 to 21 November 2014 (with pre conference workshops on 19 November 2014) . GC3 is organized by Intelectasia, an award-winning public relations consultancy and training firm. In 2013, Intelectasia won the Gold Award for excellence in public relations (crisis communications) by advertising+marketing magazine. With participation of more than 750 public relations professionals, policy makers, academicians, key thought leaders in the areas of crisis communications, top management/c-suite executives from the Asia Pacific, US, Europe and Australasia region, GC3 promotes broad global exchange of tried and tested crisis communications strategies through a case-study approach and various panel sessions.

Kuala Lumpur the capital city of Malaysia is the perfect location for this inaugural conference. The recent MH370 incident has underscored the importance of a good crisis communications strategy whether it’s for an organization or a country. Malaysia was at the centre of global attention. As the crisis was unfolding, many quarters questioned the country’s capability in managing the crisis. It is important to note that now the country is taking a step forward. GC3 is indeed very timely and serves as a unique platform for us to share our experiences and to learn from others.

• All Conferences link
  

Published: Thursday August 7, 2014 MYT 12:00:00 AM

Updated: Thursday August 7, 2014 MYT 8:42:35 AM

Communication experts to discuss handling of MH370 and MH17

KUALA LUMPUR: International ex­­perts on crisis communication will gather here to discuss, among others, the Government and Malaysia Airlines’ handling of the MH370 and MH17 tragedies.

The inaugural Global Crisis Communication Conference (GC3) in November will see experts from various industries share their experience and knowledge on how to manage and respond during times of crisis.

Intelectasia Consultancy CEO and GC3 organising chairman Manm­inder Kaur Dhillon said Malaysia had learnt a lot from handling two major aviation crises.

“This conference will be a platform for us, and the Government, to share with the world what we have learnt,” she told a press conference here yesterday.

Manminder said the international media had done a lot of damage to the country’s reputation during the handling of the disappearance of Flight MH370.

“Malaysia Airlines did a very good job even during the MH370 crisis, considering the circumstances – it was one of the worst tragedies in the world.

“The Government, on the other hand, did not do so well during MH370.

“But there was a huge improvement in the handling of MH17,” she said.

Manminder said there was a very obvious difference in the way the two tragedies were handled by the Government.

“During the first crisis, there were too many spokespersons and thus, contradictory information was re­­leased,” she added.

• The StarOnline link
  

~ Public Participation is encouraged ~ why not give it a go Earl ?

~

[toast]

Just for the statistic, here a short overview on all incidents, involving 777s, in 2014 that had lead to emergeny landings:

TK18, 16JAN14 YYZ-IST, returned to YYZ due to failed air data reference units

UA932, 07AUG14, IAD-FRA, returned to IAD due to smell of smoke on board

AF6775F, 14MAR14, SEL-CDG, returned to SEL due to engine failure

AI127, 10MAR14, DEL-ORD, returned to DEL due to transponder failure

UA930, 22APR14, SFO-LHR, engine shut down in flight

OS88, 27APR14, JFK-VIE, engine shut down in flight, flight diverted to FRA

AZ630, 30APR14, FCO-MIA, engine shut down in flight

KR38, ORD-SEL, 02JUL14, engine shut down in flight, flight diverted to DYR

JA735, 02MAY14, JFK-NRT, engine shut down in flight, returned to JFK

PK787, 11JUL14, KHI-LHR, engine shut down in flight, returned to KHI

AA79, 11JUL14, LHR-DFW, engine shut down in flight, flight diverted to TUL

UA328, 25JUL14, DEN-HNL, electrical odour on board, flight diverted to SEA

UA999, 05AUG14, EWR-BRU, fire in the cabin, flight diverted to YHZ

http://avherald.com/...=34&search.y=11

I have no idea if this number is extraordinary but I would say there a lot of engine shut downs during flight.

Edited August 7, 2014 by toast

[Space Commander Travis]

Just for the statistic, here a short overview on all incidents, involving 777s, in 2014 that had lead to emergeny landings:

TK18, 16JAN14 YYZ-IST, returned to YYZ due to failed air data reference units

UA932, 07AUG14, IAD-FRA, returned to IAD due to smell of smoke on board

AF6775F, 14MAR14, SEL-CDG, returned to SEL due to engine failure

AI127, 10MAR14, DEL-ORD, returned to DEL due to transponder failure

UA930, 22APR14, SFO-LHR, engine shut down in flight

OS88, 27APR14, JFK-VIE, engine shut down in flight, flight diverted to FRA

AZ630, 30APR14, FCO-MIA, engine shut down in flight

KR38, ORD-SEL, 02JUL14, engine shut down in flight, flight diverted to DYR

JA735, 02MAY14, JFK-NRT, engine shut down in flight, returned to JFK

PK787, 11JUL14, KHI-LHR, engine shut down in flight, returned to KHI

AA79, 11JUL14, LHR-DFW, engine shut down in flight, flight diverted to TUL

UA328, 25JUL14, DEN-HNL, electrical odour on board, flight diverted to SEA

UA999, 05AUG14, EWR-BRU, fire in the cabin, flight diverted to YHZ

http://avherald.com/...=34&search.y=11

I have no idea if this number is extraordinary but I would say there a lot of engine shut downs during flight.

That's why I'd always choose a 747 or A340.

"Smell of smoke on board" and "Fire in the cabin" is perhaps noteworthy as well.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

EoT ....

I am in Malaysia ... each and everyday I am keeping up to date with the keenest attention I am able to put to it ~ and all the links you provide that claims the 'Malaysian Government' is doing is just not there ... it is all based on poor understanding of the local Language ... and most times on purpose to paint them in poor light ~ smear campaign ~ mud slings ~ and you are complicit ~ the same as those who spreads the lies regarding Islam being the scourge of the world and worse ~ and those that are complicit to those lies ... you just sat yourself into the same pot as they ~

Third Eye, first things first. I want you to trust me here. I have never said the words that I did say unless I truly believed it. I have no dislike in my heart for Malaysia or Malaysians, truly do not.

With that said, if you truly think that the article I posted stating that the MH370 Investigators have admitted "sealing evidence" to the relatives of Chinese victims, then fine! I cannot go to China right now to ask those people if it is true, so you got me!

But there is so much more evidence, beginning with your *own* former Prime Minister saying that he had his grave suspicions of the investigation, thought that it was a coverup orchestrated by the CIA.

You also had, a leading TV network based in New York City saying that the tape with the conversation between the ATC and the MH370 pilot was severely edited, you also had the relatives of the victims hire a team of private investigators because they felt that MH370 Investigators were not telling the relatives everything.

And you know what, Third eye...? I said much of all that the first day I posted in here, including the fact that the CIA is involved with the investigation, despite not seeing that official stated.

Everybody has opinions, and you know I have *strong* ones. I stick to them until somebody *shows* me that I am wrong. Your opinion that a newspaper made it all up is not proof, to me, I need more.

Just look at the 'dates' of the reports you provide ... you are falling into the blind logic trap ~ it is an on going investigation ~ and all of those speculative reports you link here is getting tiresomely outdated ~ not to mention poorly (not to mention desperate) researched ~

You know what, Third eye....? the ancient Greeks announced that Area = (pi) R²

a long time ago, but the presentation of such being so "outdated" does not ever invalidate the formula.

If those words - "sealed evidence", were really spoken to the Chinese relatives by Investigators, then no amount of backtracking by the Investigators now will shake my belief that when they originally said it,,, they meant it.

You are providing nothing helpful and frankly ... it makes you look like a silly duck caught wet on dry land ~ saving face is one thing Earl ~ you looking the horse up the wrong end ~

~

I know I am certainly not helping the cause of Investigators, yes. I do what I always do, tell it like I see it.

You know, years ago before Americans started to get wise as to what is really going on in the Middle East, I had my same strong opinions then that I do today, only I stood *alone* and got called "Adolph". It never stopped me from saying what I had to say, I hope you understand and appreciate that.

We're far from enemies, my friend, I think you know that now.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

Third eye said: "~ Public Participation is encouraged ~ why not give it a go Earl ?"

It would be virtually impossible for me, TE, but thanks for the invite. I would enjoy meeting you some day

[SHaYap]

~snip~.

We're far from enemies, my friend, I think you know that now.

Well ... as a 'friend' Earl ~ your are hopelessly out of the loop here ... and you're heading down into a tight knot that is not helping you

~

[+Hammerclaw]

Just for the statistic, here a short overview on all incidents, involving 777s, in 2014 that had lead to emergeny landings:

TK18, 16JAN14 YYZ-IST, returned to YYZ due to failed air data reference units

UA932, 07AUG14, IAD-FRA, returned to IAD due to smell of smoke on board

AF6775F, 14MAR14, SEL-CDG, returned to SEL due to engine failure

AI127, 10MAR14, DEL-ORD, returned to DEL due to transponder failure

UA930, 22APR14, SFO-LHR, engine shut down in flight

OS88, 27APR14, JFK-VIE, engine shut down in flight, flight diverted to FRA

AZ630, 30APR14, FCO-MIA, engine shut down in flight

KR38, ORD-SEL, 02JUL14, engine shut down in flight, flight diverted to DYR

JA735, 02MAY14, JFK-NRT, engine shut down in flight, returned to JFK

PK787, 11JUL14, KHI-LHR, engine shut down in flight, returned to KHI

AA79, 11JUL14, LHR-DFW, engine shut down in flight, flight diverted to TUL

UA328, 25JUL14, DEN-HNL, electrical odour on board, flight diverted to SEA

UA999, 05AUG14, EWR-BRU, fire in the cabin, flight diverted to YHZ

http://avherald.com/...=34&search.y=11

I have no idea if this number is extraordinary but I would say there a lot of engine shut downs during flight.

All those safe landings make it unlikely MH 17 was downed by maintenance issues.

[toast]

All those safe landings make it unlikely MH 17 was downed by maintenance issues.

MH17 is next door, this thread is about MH370. But anyway, it is possible that technical issues

where involved in the MH17 incident as well.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

MH17 is next door, this thread is about MH370. But anyway, it is possible that technical issues

where involved in the MH17 incident as well.

If you think it possible that technical issues caused the demise of MH370, why do Investigators "seal evidence"?

Do you think they might be protecting Boeing? Personally, I would find that idea preposterous.

Just as an side, how would investigators know they had to protect Boeing until they examined the flight data/voice recorders and the aircraft itself?

There is something far more sinister going on, and they (ATC) knew about it as the tragedy unfolded. my opinion

[toast]

If you think it possible that technical issues caused the demise of MH370, why do Investigators "seal evidence"?

Do you think they might be protecting Boeing? Personally, I would find that idea preposterous.

Just as an side, how would investigators know they had to protect Boeing until they examined the flight data/voice recorders

and the aircraft itself? There is something far more sinister going on, and they (ATC) knew about it as the tragedy unfolded.

my opinion

No I don`t think there is a coverup and I would say that the key problem of the investigators is that there is no debris to investigate

and that the flight recoders were never found. As I said, I cannot judge if the engine shutdown inflight number of 777s in 2014 is

extraordinary, but its my impression that the number is too high. I would investigate where the engine problem 777s have had

the last maintenance. If the most of these 777s were maintained at one facility, than the problem cause might be detected.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

No I don`t think there is a coverup and I would say that the key problem of the investigators is that there is no debris to investigate

and that the flight recoders were never found. As I said, I cannot judge if the engine shutdown inflight number of 777s in 2014 is

extraordinary, but its my impression that the number is too high. I would investigate where the engine problem 777s have had

the last maintenance. If the most of these 777s were maintained at one facility, than the problem cause might be detected.

Since the first 777 entered service in June 1995, the airplane has flown almost five million flights and accumulated more than 18 million flight hours.

Boeing has received 1,548 orders for the triple 7 - with 1,178 delivered. The most common variant of 777 is the 777-300ER, the extended range version that was MH370, and is the most flown twin-aisle wide body in service.

Two things about the engines, the planes you cited all were able to get to some airport. Overall, I would say the list you provided would not be unexpected, the 777 has the highest percentage of flights with no mechanical issues in the business.

-------- Wiki and other sources.

Now, onto MH370.

So apparently, you have not read much of the thread since you started posting here.

Investigators have told the relatives of the Chinese victims that the investigators have "sealed evidences". I don't know where you come from but where I live, that can be loosely interpreted as "COVERUP" - cover up the pertinent evidences. That source I posted no more than a week ago and this is a slow board, go back a page or two.

Here is another for you, the police chief of Kuala Lumpur has said this investigation is a criminal investigation. Just how would he know that? Was he privy to some Sealed Evidences?

The CIA, FBI, NTSB America, MI6 are involved in this investigation too, and dare I say, the Chinese Intel are in it, too. That is not because they are just helping to find a lost aircraft. That's a 'tell'.

One last point, Investigators claim this craft was traced (assumedly, by radar) as going West through Malaysia/Indonesia, then South, out to the Indian Ocean.

Sure looks like the engine(s) was/were working just fine!

Hope that is of interest, and Welcome in! The water's fine.

[frenat]

One common reason evidence is sealed is when waiting for a trial in a criminal investigation. Since they don't know exactly what happened yet, that is still possible.

[toast]

Overall, I would say the list you provided would not be unexpected, the 777 has the highest percentage of

flights with no mechanical issues in the busines

Before I published the 777 incidents, I looked at the same source for engine failures on 737s, which is the worlds

common PAX and with much more flights than the 777 ,and this type had only 4 incidents reported.

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

One common reason evidence is sealed is when waiting for a trial in a criminal investigation. Since they don't know exactly what happened yet, that is still possible.

It is possible. And if so, they should SAY so.

But it's also possible they know exactly what happened and decided not to go public. That has been my stance from day 1.

Just as an aside, frenat, do you know that by my judgement in here, I would say most in here don't believe this investigation is "criminal"? Just saying.

The investigators have a marvelous way of downplaying that, eh?

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

Before I published the 777 incidents, I looked at the same source for engine failures on 737s, which is the worlds

common PAX and with much more flights than the 777 ,and this type had only 4 incidents reported.

The 737...? wow. didn't know that.

I tried googling for most common pax but, didn't get it.

This is Wiki;

"United Airlines first placed the 777 into commercial airline service on June 7, 1995. The 777 has received more orders than any other wide-body airliner; as of February 2014, 60 customers had placed orders for 1,548 aircraft of all variants, with 1,178 delivered"

EDIT:

This is strange. the SAME source, Wiki:

"The 737 series is the best-selling jet airliner in the history of aviation.^[4] The 737 has been continuously manufactured by Boeing since 1967 with 8,104 aircraft delivered and 3,931 orders yet to be fulfilled as of June 2014. The 737 has been continuously manufactured by Boeing since 1967 with 8,104 aircraft delivered and 3,931 orders yet to be fulfilled as of June 2014"

Exactly how anyone can reconcile those two statements in beyond me.

Beats me. Maybe it's the "wide body" thing for the 777

Edited August 9, 2014 by Earl.Of.Trumps

[frenat]

It is possible. And if so, they should SAY so.

But it's also possible they know exactly what happened and decided not to go public. That has been my stance from day 1.

Just as an aside, frenat, do you know that by my judgement in here, I would say most in here don't believe this investigation is "criminal"? Just saying.

The investigators have a marvelous way of downplaying that, eh?

It doesn't matter if anybody believes the investigation is criminal. Until they know exactly what happens it remains a possibility. They may not have said so because they a. don't care what you think, b. think most reasonable people would realize it anyway.

[frenat]

The 737...? wow. didn't know that.

I tried googling for most common pax but, didn't get it.

This is Wiki;

"United Airlines first placed the 777 into commercial airline service on June 7, 1995. The 777 has received more orders than any other wide-body airliner; as of February 2014, 60 customers had placed orders for 1,548 aircraft of all variants, with 1,178 delivered"

Among wide body aircraft I'm sure that is true. here is what Wiki says about the 737

"The 737 series is the best-selling jet airliner in the history of aviation.^[4] The 737 has been continuously manufactured by Boeing since 1967 with 8,104 aircraft delivered and 3,931 orders yet to be fulfilled as of June 2014^[update].^"

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

Among wide body aircraft I'm sure that is true. here is what Wiki says about the 737

"The 737 series is the best-selling jet airliner in the history of aviation.^[4] The 737 has been continuously manufactured by Boeing since 1967 with 8,104 aircraft delivered and 3,931 orders yet to be fulfilled as of June 2014^[update].^"

Yup.

That exact quote is in my above text.

And I did think it can be reconciled by saying the 777 is a "wide-body" , but not the 737

[Earl.Of.Trumps]

It doesn't matter if anybody believes the investigation is criminal. Until they know exactly what happens it remains a possibility. They may not have said so because they a. don't care what you think, b. think most reasonable people would realize it anyway.

a] I am but a small lump on a log, and Investigators do seem to have the lid on things by their "sealing evidence", so sure!

b] They would not believe it in here when I quoted the Kuala Lumpur police chief who said it was a "criminal investigation"

Gee, frenat, are you suggesting some people in here are not "reasonable"?

Well, I would never say that! LoL much

Edited August 9, 2014 by Earl.Of.Trumps

[DONTEATUS]

So any factual EVIDENCE YET?

[Czero 101]

I'm definitely not one to offer up a conspiracy theory explanation for anything, but this article certainly is interesting....

http://online.wsj.co...yout-1407467385

Malaysia to Bail Out Airline

Carrier Struggles to Fill Seats; Government Offers $430 Million to Take It Private

KUALA LUMPUR—Malaysia's embattled flag carrier may soon face layoffs and board changes as part of plans to repair an airline that is struggling to fill seats after the losses of two planes with 537 people aboard.

The nation's state investment firm, which controls nearly 70% of Malaysian Airline System Bhd., on Friday disclosed a $430 million plan to take the airline private, a first step in a restructuring effort that aims to return it to financial strength.

"We believe our national carrier must be renewed. This means wholesale change, to deliver a wholly different outcome," Malaysian Prime Minister Najib Razak said Friday.

Malaysia Airlines hasn't been profitable for the past three years. The government injected more than five billion ringgit ($1.56 billion) over the last decade just to keep the airline flying, and the disappearance of Flight 370 in March and the July downing of Flight 17 over Ukraine were devastating blows.

Thoughts...?

Cz

[seeder]

And another article claims..

Malaysian press charges Ukraine government shot down MH 17

A Thursday article in the New Straits Times, Malaysia’s flagship English-language newspaper, charged the US- and European-backed Ukrainian regime in Kiev with shooting down Malaysian Airlines flight MH 17 in east Ukraine last month. Given the tightly controlled character of the Malaysian media, it appears that the accusation that Kiev shot down MH17 has the imprimatur of the Malaysian state.

The US and European media have buried this remarkable report, which refutes the wave of allegations planted by the CIA in international media claiming that Russian president Vladimir Putin was responsible for the destruction of MH17, without presenting any evidence to back up this charge.

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/08/09/mala-a09.html?view=print

alt source

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Malaysian-press-charges-Uk-by-Alex-Lantier-Government-Corruption_Malaysia-Airlines-Flight-17_Putin_Russia-140809-576.html

[Space Commander Travis]

it really wouldn't surprise me if that was true, although probably by mistake due to incompetence, drunkenness or good old fashioned trigger happiness rather than deliberate intent. There have been stories circulating for a long time that the US Intelligence Sources knew exactly where the missile had come from, but as it wasn't where they wanted it to come from, so they haven't publicised it.

[toast]

Beats me. Maybe it's the "wide body" thing for the 777

It is.