Need some advice on the unforgiveable sin...

[Dee Dee Warren]

God can soften the hardest heart.

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You are correct. In fact sometimes I think the hard-hearted are the more likely - remember Jesus said I would that you were hot or cold, but lukewarm I will vomit out of my mouth.

[TaintedDoughnuts]

Dee Dee Warren, you stole my very first avatar! LOL! Gotta love the freaky llamaa thingy, eh?

[Dee Dee Warren]

Dee Dee Warren, you stole my very first avatar!  LOL!   Gotta love the freaky llamaa thingy, eh?

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that is so funny! we use it all the time at the forum I own (theologyweb.com) but call it the llama of the apocolypse or simply "wierd running thing" -- it is the grin that creeps ya out.

[GIDEON MAGE]

The following is not addressed to any previous poster, so please don't take offense.

One of the most heinous sins, but not unforgiveable (there is no such thing to any who believe in a loving god) is to interfere with another's beliefs and to try to shove your religion down their throat when they are happy with their relationship with god. Just like in medicine, there are many different cures, and sometimes more than one version of the same drug, there is only one God and thousands of paths that all lead to god. To proselytize is like trying to make someone change from advil to ibuprofen. It is meaningless, and could hurt in the long run. There is no such thing as "one's own god", just "one's own path" to the same God. All religion boils dwon to three words in the English language "Don't hurt people!" THe rest is gloss and unnecessary. "Don't kill" because it would hurt someone. "Don't commit suicide or overdo drugs or alcohol" because you are someone. "honor your moither and father" because they are people. When people "witness" to someone who already has a path to god, and is not in a hopeless wallow of despair, they are hurting that person. This goes especially to missionaries of any faith, and those annoying pests that knock on your door.

they bring hurt, not help. if they really wanted to help others, they would limit that to providing food, etc., and just letting the others know in the least offensive manner, that they have a path to god, if needed. anything else causes pain. no-one owns god. no religion owns god. if you think your religion is the only true way, then you need to reread your scriptures. Your egotism actually separates you from god; it doesn't matter whether you believe me or not.Find your own path, and leave others alone, unless they ask. Guess what- most already know God at least as well as you do. anyone can ask God for forgiveness; religion means nothing to God. God loves you. God forgives you, and does not ignore any sincere requests

Is that your religious belief?

some of us rely on what our hearts and minds tell us. Mine tell me that only a cruel, sadistic, vengeful, hateful "God" could condemn his on children to an eternity of torture. we are all God's children. we were born that way, and don't have to beg membership in yours or anyone else's religion to return to God after our time here is over.

[+Paranoid Android]

some of us rely on what our hearts and minds tell us.  Mine tell me that only a cruel, sadistic, vengeful, hateful "God" could condemn his on children to an eternity of torture.  we are all God's children.  we were born that way, and don't have to beg membership in yours or anyone else's religion to return to God after our time here is over.

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Couldn't agree with you more Gideon

I always say you don't need membership in any religion to get to God. Likewise I do not believe in eternal torture

Indeed, very well said.

[Dee Dee Warren]

some of us rely on what our hearts and minds tell us.  Mine tell me that only a cruel, sadistic, vengeful, hateful "God" could condemn his on children to an eternity of torture.  we are all God's children.  we were born that way, and don't have to beg membership in yours or anyone else's religion to return to God after our time here is over.

714976[/snapback]

Couldn't agree with you more Gideon

I always say you don't need membership in any religion to get to God. Likewise I do not believe in eternal torture

Indeed, very well said.

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So that is indeed your religion. Your religion says that alll have their own path and we shouldn't expect people to have the same beliefs as we do. That being said, you have violated your own rule by telling me that I should not have my religion.

This is some of the most shallow reasoning I have ever heard. I understand this is a paranormal type forum (and I love that subject) but apparently Gideon you seem to think you are a piranha on this subject when in reality you are a big fish in a very small pool (not that that forum is small but it is not dedicated to this purpose). If you really are such a big fish Gideon I challenge you to try some of that tripe over at www.theologyweb.com

I am certain you will beg off and insert one of your typical bigotries. I am not one of the big fish there, but there are some who could easily send you packing.

TD all the best with your friend. If I can be of assistance, PM me or something. I would suggest that you solicit some counsel from more believers as well.

[+Paranoid Android]

Dee Dee, not sure why you included my name in that post of yours . I certainly believe in the God of the Bible and of jesus Christ.

I was pointing out to Gideon that all that he stated in his post was exactly as our God really is - merciful, kind, loving, forgiving......

All the best,

[Dee Dee Warren]

some of us rely on what our hearts and minds tell us.  Mine tell me that only a cruel, sadistic, vengeful, hateful "God" could condemn his on children to an eternity of torture.  we are all God's children.  we were born that way, and don't have to beg membership in yours or anyone else's religion to return to God after our time here is over.

714976[/snapback]

Couldn't agree with you more Gideon

I always say you don't need membership in any religion to get to God. Likewise I do not believe in eternal torture

Indeed, very well said.

714989[/snapback]

So that is indeed your religion. Your religion says that alll have their own path and we shouldn't expect people to have the same beliefs as we do. That being said, you have violated your own rule by telling me that I should not have my religion.

This is some of the most shallow reasoning I have ever heard. I understand this is a paranormal type forum (and I love that subject) but apparently Gideon you seem to think you are a piranha on this subject when in reality you are a big fish in a very small pool (not that that forum is small but it is not dedicated to this purpose). If you really are such a big fish Gideon I challenge you to try some of that tripe over at www.theologyweb.com

I am certain you will beg off and insert one of your typical bigotries. I am not one of the big fish there, but there are some who could easily send you packing.

TD all the best with your friend. If I can be of assistance, PM me or something. I would suggest that you solicit some counsel from more believers as well.

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BFG - it was all directed to Gideon, the quoting system here is unlike other forums and confuses me. However in response to your comment - yes one DOES need membership in a religion to get to God - that religion being "in Christ" - no one can get to the Father except through Him.

[GIDEON MAGE]

Big fish in a small pool? I have no clue what you mean. I have no delusions of grandeur. I am simply expressing my opinion in an open forum.

big·ot  (bgt)

n.

One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

Definition of Bigot

I am certain you will beg off and insert one of your typical bigotries

here is my original quote:

The following is not addressed to any previous poster, so please don't take offense.

who was i being a bigot against?

but there are some who could easily send you packing.

I don't respond to flaming threats. sorry, find another scape-goat.

you and your people have been doing it for 2000 years. I sincerely hope your hatred lands you in your own hell.

I specifically meant to offend no-one. sorry if your ego is too big not to take that personally.

[GIDEON MAGE]

it was all directed to Gideon, the quoting system here is unlike other forums and confuses me. However in response to your comment - yes one DOES need membership in a religion to get to God - that religion being "in Christ" - no one can get to the Father except through Him.

your insulting remarks have been reported to the mods.

I made innocent remarks, and you want to send me to hell. how dare youi?

you don't own God. i specifically said my remarks were not directed at anyone, and you attacked me. read the rules next time. this is not your pitiable forum.

[Dee Dee Warren]

Big fish in a small pool?  I have no clue what you mean.  I have no delusions of grandeur.  I am simply expressing my opinion in an open forum.

big·ot  (bgt)

n.

One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

Definition of Bigot

I am certain you will beg off and insert one of your typical bigotries

here is my original quote:

The following is not addressed to any previous poster, so please don't take offense.

who was i being a bigot against?

but there are some who could easily send you packing.

I don't respond to flaming threats. sorry, find another scape-goat.

you and your people have been doing it for 2000 years. I sincerely hope your hatred lands you in your own hell.

I specifically meant to offend no-one. sorry if your ego is too big not to take that personally.

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I wasn't personally offended - you were meaning to offend a person but a belief system and I showed you the inconsistency of it. As far as bigotry go back to our last exchange and substitue the word "black" or "jew" into your tirades and you would see your bigotry.

And I knew you would beg off. It wasn't a threat (I could be cute and patronizing and link you to the definition of threat) it was a suggestion that you put your tuckus where your mouth is. You begged off, your choice.

And do you know what a scape-goat is because your use of it made absolutely zero sense.

[101]

Thank you 101, I really appreciate it  

babyagafamiliar and Cendari, thanks for your views, and I love that quote!

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Your welcome. Keep us posted on everything.

[Dee Dee Warren]

Big fish in a small pool?  I have no clue what you mean.  I have no delusions of grandeur.  I am simply expressing my opinion in an open forum.

big·ot  (bgt)

n.

One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

Definition of Bigot

I am certain you will beg off and insert one of your typical bigotries

here is my original quote:

The following is not addressed to any previous poster, so please don't take offense.

who was i being a bigot against?

but there are some who could easily send you packing.

I don't respond to flaming threats. sorry, find another scape-goat.

you and your people have been doing it for 2000 years. I sincerely hope your hatred lands you in your own hell.

I specifically meant to offend no-one. sorry if your ego is too big not to take that personally.

715032[/snapback]

Really now - insulting remarks? Shall I go and retrieve your quotes about Christians? My my we are the drama queen. The only "insulting" thing was that I said you spoke bigotry. And I can back that up. All the rest was disagreeing with inconsistent thinking.

I am sorry you are such a volatile person - no need for the mods to care - I said my peace and I will not be back.

[GIDEON MAGE]

Big fish in a small pool?  I have no clue what you mean.  I have no delusions of grandeur.  I am simply expressing my opinion in an open forum.

big·ot  (bgt)

n.

One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ.

Definition of Bigot

I am certain you will beg off and insert one of your typical bigotries

here is my original quote:

The following is not addressed to any previous poster, so please don't take offense.

who was i being a bigot against?

but there are some who could easily send you packing.

I don't respond to flaming threats. sorry, find another scape-goat.

you and your people have been doing it for 2000 years. I sincerely hope your hatred lands you in your own hell.

I specifically meant to offend no-one. sorry if your ego is too big not to take that personally.

715032[/snapback]

I wasn't personally offended - you were meaning to offend a person but a belief system and I showed you the inconsistency of it. As far as bigotry go back to our last exchange and substitue the word "black" or "jew" into your tirades and you would see your bigotry.

And I knew you would beg off. It wasn't a threat (I could be cute and patronizing and link you to the definition of threat) it was a suggestion that you put your tuckus where your mouth is. You begged off, your choice.

And do you know what a scape-goat is because your use of it made absolutely zero sense.

715039[/snapback]

I have also reported this post, and will not respond to further insults, other than reporting them.

[Kismit]

Dee Dee

yes one DOES need membership in a religion to get to God - that religion being "in Christ" - no one can get to the Father except through Him.

comments like that, and calling some one a Bigot or hoping they will go to Hell are unacceptable at U.M.

For the first comment. This site is not dedicated to any one religion it has many and the mere act of telling people that to get to Heaven they Must accept Christ is considered hostile.

I consider it hostile. We also often use the term prosyletise when struck by this sort of comment. I will not give up my religion because someone told me I would burn in hell otherwise. Or disapear into eternity or what ever is supposed to happen to people who don't hold a 'Christ' ticket when they die.

I'm sure you would be un-impressed if I told you that Pan would chase you through 11 life cycles around the sun if you don't turn to the ways of nature.

I see you run your own site, I'm pleased for you, I would be one of the heathens (as you refer to them) if I posted there. I don't agrue with people who insist on using Bible quotes, they may believe they have torn me down with evidence and fact but would they feel the same if I used a book on Wicca as evidence . I doubt it.

Gideon did not as far as I can see segregate any-one group of people, however your posts have had quite a sharp edge to them, wouldn't you agree.

Your comments and queries to my post are welcome. But please do not call posters biggot's and or prosyletise while at U.M.

Edited July 5, 2005 by Kismit

[Dee Dee Warren]

Dee Dee

yes one DOES need membership in a religion to get to God - that religion being "in Christ" - no one can get to the Father except through Him.

comments like that, and calling some one a Bigot or hoping they will go to Hell are unacceptable at U.M.

For the first comment. This site is not dedicated to any one religion it has many and the mere act of telling people that to get to Heaven they Must accept Christ is considered hostile.

I consider it hostile. We also often use the term prosyletise when struck by this sort of comment. I will not give up my religion because someone told me I would burn in hell otherwise. Or disapear into eternity or what ever is supposed to happen to people who don't hold a 'Christ' ticket when they die.

I'm sure you would be un-impressed if I told you that Pan would chase you through 11 life cycles around the sun if you don't turn to the ways of nature.

I see you run your own site, I'm pleased for you, I would be one of the heathens (as you refer to them) if I posted there. I don't agrue with people who insist on using Bible quotes, they may believe they have torn me down with evidence and fact but would they feel the same if I used a book on Wicca as evidence . I doubt it.

Gideon did not as far as I can see segregate any-one group of people, however your posts have had quite a sharp edge to them, wouldn't you agree.

Your comments and queries to my post are welcome. But please do not call posters biggot's and or prosyletise while at U.M.

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I am taking your last sentence as permission to publicly address your view as moderator. Many sites do not allow - now first for my use of the "b" word - are comments like this:

awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

poor little xian says i am "dumb" when he is hurt-that's right up there with "my god will beat up your god"

why didn't you just say that, you immature moron..

for which GM was rebuked by a moderator, but then he comes on with (after I made only ONE post in which he misrepresented my site - and the assumption he used to misrep it further showed his "b" - as does this gem:

This is a wonderful website intended for the education of uniformed jews against the barrage of xianity being shoved down their throats for 2000 years. Xians are welcome. Ususlly they say really stupid, uninfored things.

Now throw in any other group for Xian in that sentence and everyone would be crying the b-word.

So GM misrepresented a proveable fact and when asked why he thought that, responded with a "b" comment against Christians. My first post was simply to correct misinformation, it wasn't aggressive or insulting and what you just read above was GM's first post to me. Something is rotten in Denmark.

Secondly, you are basically saying being a Christian is fine as long as you don't think Jesus is the only way to God. That is nonsensical. That is the equivalent of saying I think it is cool you keep kosher as long as you eat ham.

If GM can hurl "b" like that in his very first post to a new member who just asked a question on an outright falsehood that GM told, and you are going to demand that Christians not say what Christians believe because it "offends you" - then I look forward to the prompt deletion of my account.

This is like an episode of the Twilight Zone.

Oh and us ignorant hell-mongering Christians at theologyweb are not the belief police - you can pretty much advocate anything you want within some very broad boundaries. Yep even you heathens. You Kismit would probably handle yourself well as you speak with maturity, GM would get the proverbial spanking of his life from us ignorant dimwits.

Edited July 5, 2005 by Dee Dee Warren

[Dee Dee Warren]

and no worries I will not be back. I do not wish to make your job as a moderator any harder than it already is. I wish your forum well and should you ever want to experience a Christian owned forum which is likely different than any you have been on you will be welcome. I am unsubscribing from these threads - peace

[Kismit]

Thank you for pointing out GM's posts, I was actually un aware of them, you are free to choose which sites you wish to but i would like to adress this on a more personal level.

Secondly, you are basically saying being a Christian is fine as long as you don't think Jesus is the only way to God.

No, what I am saying is that this is not a Christian based site, people are free to believe the way they want to, and I'm sure you allow that at your site. But this one particular Christian view is hostile and does not allow for others to feel free in there choices and beliefs. It is the only downfall in Christianity as far as I can see, but it is sadly still accepted as something that is done with good intentions. And we know where good intentions lead to.

So you can think it is the only way, you are free to feel it is the only way, but when you express that it is infact the only way, you alienate alot of good people with good moral standards who's religious beliefs are as valid as your own.

Edited July 5, 2005 by Kismit

[JohnnyBoyC]

my friend first said he was a buddhist (he was originally a catholic) then he says that there is no god... i bet it is just some phase... especially since this kid is only 12..

[AnhZors]

my friend first said he was a buddhist (he was originally a catholic) then he says that there is no god... i bet it is just some phase... especially since this kid is only 12..

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The buddish religion do not believe in god but rather individual determentation to reach enligthment.

[imorningsun]

I think that sinning against God when you realy aren't sure there is one is not as bad as sinning against God when you know there is one.

I also believe that God is devine love. So, we know that when we love some one that deeply we will forgive them for about anything. Therefore God will do the same.

[smokejaguar]

The bible is quite clear, there is only one unforgivable sin.It is at the end time for any of the "elect" to refuse the holy spirit to talk thru them.Everything else is forgivable.As for hardening your heart again christ,,if you dont come around before you die you will have time to be schooled after.-usdi Agaluga

[dezza]

What does it mean to sin?

What does it mean to be forgiven?

We can leave God out of the equation because to answer these two will reveal the nature of the unforgiveable.

To sin is to miss the mark.

To be forgiven. Having missed the mark, have another shot.

So in what way can the mark be missed and the possibility of another shot be null and void.

Simple - you say you didn't miss the mark.....even though....in your heart of hearts.....you........know.

See, no need for God....in the argument.

[horus21]

I do Know There Is only One Unforgivable sin. Suicide which is due to the fact that after it has been comitted it cannot be repented.

[deathinabottle]

I have a friend, "Bob," who isn't quite atheist, since he does believe in God, but he says some awful things about God, such as he despites God, he doesn't like Him, etc.  Now, I'm concerned for my friend's spiritual life, and my question is:  What does a person do or say to commit blasphemy against the holy spirit?  Can my friend still be saved if I change his view of God, or has he already fallen beyond saving?  Any info would be a big help.

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first of all dont get p***ed at him for cursing God or being disrespectful towards christianity, it will make him go into defence mode

and the more your there for him the more he will relize he can trust you and he will be able to trust what you say and not think its some b.s.

also dont try to get him to believe or make him see all the time, it will only make him more angry with God and more than likeley annoiyed

the most powerful thing u have as a christian is being a "romodel" if u will

when something happens keep a positive adittude, let him know u have a happy life because of your faith, because its a better life to lead and because you can trust God, sounds kinda weird i guess but it really works, have a positive mentality, eventually it will rub off on him

the more you influence him the more he will see things about you he wish he had as far as spiritually, being happy, leading a solid, stable life and he'll see, be pacient, i dont care how long its taken already or going to take.....