All drugs were once legal in the U.S.

[4dplane]

"The first American anti-drug law was an 1875 San Francisco ordinance which outlawed the smoking of opium in opium dens. It was passed because of the fear that Chinese men were luring white women to their "ruin" in opium dens. "Ruin" was defined as associating with Chinese men."

[...]

"Cocaine was outlawed because of fears that superhuman "Negro Cocaine Fiends" or "Cocainized *******" (actual terms used by newspapers in the early 1900's) take large amounts of cocaine which would make them go on a violent sexual rampage and rape white women."

[...]

"In fact, even the people who wrote the Harrison Act and the Marijuana Tax Act in 1937 agreed that a general prohibition on what people could put into their own bodies was plainly an unconstitutional infringement on personal liberties."

Source

So WTF happened? How did we get our selves into this puritan (do gooder) mind set that is continuing on to this day? Who is the government to tell us what we can and cannot put into our bodies?

Many of us respect the founding fathers of the U.S. for the creation of our great constitution. Do you respect the fact that the authors of this constitution made it legal to ingest whatever you wanted, or are you against this part of the original constitution.

I believe that the authors of the U.S. constitution had it right. They knew that it was not there job to tell people what their morals should be. They knew this because they came from a land of so be called “do gooders” and they were fully versed in the issues this type of government activity would have on its people.

Now we have are great U.S. war on drug. Billions spent every year and for what? Is it so we can say to our god or our children that we are a people of great morals? We are not, no people are; that is because any people who have shown great morals, have been murderer and taken out of existence by would be “do gooders.”

Some stats on our great war of morals

How many people are actually killed by drugs?

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/basicfax.htm#q3

Which drugs are the most addictive?

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/basicfax.htm#q5

How many are in prison and what are they in for?

http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/library/basicfax.htm#q17

[AnhZors]

Yeah most of these drugs where banned for stupid reason.

Let's say drinking and smoking pot for example, drinking causes MUCh more death than pot do. Also Pot(Marijuana) is different from hemp because it has a different bloodline. If Hemp is smooke it can danger your life and it has no high effect. Hemp is also a very very reliable resource for oil, medication, building material, paper, ect.....

[Celumnaz]

there's always going to be that "enlightened" crowd of elitist philosopher-king wannabes that think laws like this at a point in time are good for everybody else.

totally agree with the assesment 4dplane, founders of constitution layed out a Great document and we've swayed from its intent big time.

"Congress shall make NO LAW..." seems to be lost on sooo many. Gov't is out of control.

As Abraham Lincoln said: "This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right to overthrow it."

The grumbling gets louder.

[Irish]

You do have a choice!

Having been raised in the sixties and seen both the good and bad of drug use and miss-use I have come to the unpopular opinion that as long as the person is well aware of all the risks involved and are not chortled or tricked into taking them, I say knock yourself out, literally. If ones stupidity hurts no one else through crime or hurt at your loss then go to town. Keep a good record of your actions so as others don’t follow you down your dark road. Its all ones own choice in the end and if no one is going to miss you, you have every right to make stupid decisions. Heck in regards to the advancement of mankind you will at the very least improve the gene pool.

All the Best

Irish

[Celumnaz]

I can go down to the supermarket and legally buy a pack of untainted marijuana cigarettes? I have that choice? I can sell them at the local corner store without fear of retribution and incarceration?

[Watzel]

Another rabbit speaks out.

I had a course in college that studied drugs and their effects. We had to write an essay on what we thought could be done to solve the drug problem in our society.

I advocated making them legal but the way you would get them was through a clinic and you had to stay at that clinic while using them. Each person would get an ID card with bar code info., and they would be allowed to take the drug of their choice in a safe but effective dose.

Why would this work? Because those that think drugs are cool would go there to take them and see just what an addict looks like, what they will eventually look like. That could be a deterrent.

Another thing is the dealers and stealers would disappear. Why buy it or steal and/or rob to get money for it when it is free?

Also all the tax money we use on the war on drugs could easily pay for this kind of program. With money left over I'm sure.

So what is the hold up?

[101]

That is stupid. I think it shouldn't be illegal but that is my personal opinion. I also feel that even if we do smoke God is not angry. He only is angry when we do bad things while high on the drugs(personal opiniion) But we shouldn't get angry we should just try and vote it in. That is all.

[reese2]

Of course all drugs are legal until made 'illegal'. Some choices of drugs made illegal, obviously, are made with the bottom line numbers being the front reason as to why. There are many, many drugs that are illegal due to them being newly made, and proven killers. Such as Ice, Crystal Meth, Opiates, X, and others'. So, there are some real advocates that truly have the best interest of kids' health and well being as the catalyst behind them lobbying for drug policy change, and on the other hand you had, back in the early 40's people that made pot illegal because the bottom line was greater than if they were to keep it legalized. The trouble with making alcohol illegal is that if you look back in history, it was tried, and there were many factors that actually made it almost the worst thing that happened to our country, and also start mini- wars thoughout America. The same would happen now, but see the government makes buckets of money keeping it legalized, and taxing the everloving hell out of it. (As well as implementing strict laws that govern who may drink it legally.)

I have done a lot of research on the past drug laws, some time ago now, and it really is interesting seeing how things became illegal, and the true reasons why.

Reese

Edited July 27, 2005 by reese2

[I am me]

Of course all drugs are legal until made 'illegal'.  Some choices of drugs made illegal, obviously, are made with the bottom line numbers being the front reason as to why.  There are many, many drugs that are illegal due to them being newly made, and proven killers.  Such as Ice, Crystal Meth, Opiates, X, and others'.  So, there are some real advocates that truly have the best interest of kids' health and well being as the catalyst behind them lobbying for drug policy change, and on the other hand you had, back in the early 40's people that made pot illegal because the bottom line was greater than if they were to keep it legalized.  The trouble with making alcohol illegal is that if you look back in history, it was tried, and there were many factors that actually made it almost the worst thing that happened to our country, and also start mini- wars thoughout America.  The same would happen now, but see the government makes buckets of money keeping it legalized, and taxing the everloving hell out of it.  (As well as implementing strict laws that govern who may drink it legally.)

I have done a lot of research on the past drug laws, some time ago now, and it really is interesting seeing how things became illegal, and the true reasons why.

Reese

756584[/snapback]

There may be a reason why the new drugs are illegal, but that doesn't stop people from using them. In fact, here in Indiana the meth problem is growing at an exponential rate. When you put cops into the equation that try to hunt down these meth users, you get more paranoid users who will result to crime to continue their habit. The harder you try to fight it, the harder it is to fight. It always backfires and drains more of our tax money.

As far as I see things, let anybody do any drug they want. They are doing no harm to anyone but possibly themselves. If they commit a crime while high, charge them with that crime. If you kill somebody while high, you should be tried for killing somebody. It should not matter the state that you are in. Making drugs illegal takes away very basic rights. We all should have the right to self medicate as it is our body and not the government's.

One of the big reasons that people are all for making drugs illegal is because they were brought up in government schools that engrain in your head that all drugs are bad and that all drugs will kill you. Yes, most drugs are bad for your body if taken irresponsibly (high doses, etc.) but it is your choice to take the drug, not the governments. It is not a crime to own a knife and cut your finger off, and it should not be a crime to buy an ounce of meth and get high and rot your brain.

[4dplane]

the way you would get them was through a clinic and you had to stay at that clinic while using them. Each person would get an ID card with bar code info., and they would be allowed to take the drug of their choice in a safe but effective dose

Not a bad idea, I had never thought of this for drug users. I hear Amsterdam has prostitute clinics very similar to your drug clinic idea. These prostitute clinics are doing very well in regards to stopping sexually transmitted diseases and abuse (rape, murder) of woman.

I think it could possible work, a controlled monitored environment where people can burn out all day. You could even have a hospital built in for people that go into cardiac arrest. Etc …

The problem with this idea to me is, drugs outside the clinic are still going to be illegal and there will be people who will not find the clinic’s rules and regulations appropriate for their desire. Hence, drugs will still have a profit margin high enough to attract an illegal drug trade.

I forget the numbers so don’t quote me, but heroin has over a 10,000 percent mark up value. With a product like this in demand, you will never stop people from risking there lives for such profits.

Also all the tax money we use on the war on drugs could easily pay for this kind of program. With money left over I'm sure.

And people here in the U.S. would take on a new, more simplified, hegemonic ideal of American life style. Meaning, in the present time, America is the World’s ‘want “a” be’ moral leaders and its eating us from the inside out. We have created a set of rules and regulations for ourselves, that is so large and so ever changing, that we have no single location on paper of these laws. To me that’s sick, how can we understand our life style and nationality when we can’t even begin to understand how all of theses laws fit together. Lets make it simple again – you want to smoke crack and die – then “Just Do It”

I would change one MAJOR thing though, advertisement for all drugs would cease completely, including synthetic brain candy like Prozac, Sarafem, focusin etc ... What would start in place of advertisement for drugs would be mass information on all drugs (as all drugs would be fully studied) and there effects on the human body. No longer would we advertise to the American public, including our children that we need some drugs and not others. The hypocrisy must stop!

I also feel that even if we do smoke God is not angry

For some reason I feel you might be a smoker

see the government makes buckets of money keeping it legalized, and taxing the everloving hell out of it.

And now that we are set in are ways of what is and is not a legal drug, the government (business) has found a new way to make massive profits on new legal drugs. And on top of that, they make the drugs such that you will not revolt against the establishment. I mean hell, people say pot makes you sleepy and unresponsive to the world and its problems, Prozac makes it so you just don’t feel at all – Different topic, but synthetic brain candy is the soma of “Brave New World.”

[Kaj]

Drugs do not claim as many lifes as cigarettes..because they are not legal.

Pot should be banned forever. Potbrains aren't smart.

Look at the % of users, how many is healthy?

Stupid defending **** like that, would NEVER happen in Scandinavia.

Netherlands is full of junkies and morons because they have so liberal drug politics..

[I am me]

Drugs do not claim as many lifes as cigarettes..because they are not legal.

Pot should be banned forever. Potbrains aren't smart.

Look at the % of users, how many is healthy?

Stupid defending **** like that, would NEVER happen in Scandinavia.

Netherlands is full of junkies and morons because they have so liberal drug politics..

757002[/snapback]

The last I heard, Sweden isn't doing so well economically. How is that possible if Swedes are not morons and junkies?

[jeceris]

Drugs do not claim as many lifes as cigarettes..because they are not legal.

Pot should be banned forever. Potbrains aren't smart.

Look at the % of users, how many is healthy?

Stupid defending **** like that, would NEVER happen in Scandinavia.

Netherlands is full of junkies and morons because they have so liberal drug politics..

757002[/snapback]

The last I heard, Sweden isn't doing so well economically. How is that possible if Swedes are not morons and junkies?

757033[/snapback]

what??????? your statement doesn't make sense to me. please explain further, i am.

are you saying that swedish economic decline,(if it really does exist) is due to all the drugs the swedish are doing, and that as a result they are morons?

and what does this have to do with the netherlands? two very different countries.

is it your premise, that drugs of all kinds should remain banned as they are the leading cause of social and economical decline? and if that is your contention, do you then support the monopolistic attitudes of americas drug companies, that push to have even more dangerous drugs approved for public consumption, without fully testing them?

and how is it not hypocrytical of a society to create laws against taking "street" drugs, but make it legal and extremely expensive to take other pain killers made by the big drug companies, that contain the same opiate abilites a joint offers you?

huh?

i need these questions answered.

[Kaj]

Painkillers?? man, you are way out there.

I only mentioned the Netherlands because they have REALLY liberal drug politics.

Economics are fine over here and has nothing to do with drugs.

I have no respect for drug addicts.

Continue using drugs or GET HELP.

Cant belive that you are defending narcotics for real. And blaming the gov?

Smoke anotherone man.

By the way, I don't know wich street drugs you mean.

And the companies you mentioned also suck.

Edited July 27, 2005 by Kaj

[about:blank]

Drugs do not claim as many lifes as cigarettes..because they are not legal.

Pot should be banned forever. Potbrains aren't smart.

Look at the % of users, how many is healthy?

Stupid defending **** like that, would NEVER happen in Scandinavia.

Netherlands is full of junkies and morons because they have so liberal drug politics..

757002[/snapback]

I don't believe all drugs should be legalized, but you what you say is somewhat false. First of all, a person smoking pot doesn't automatically make them stupid. There are plenty of successful people that, at some point in their life, smoked pot. As for drugs causing deaths, They claim many, many, deaths, but not because of the substance, because of the lifestyle that goes along with being drug addicted.

As for Marijuana compared to our legal drugs, in the USA, it is rediculous. Tobacco kills 435,000 a year, and alcohol kills 85,000 a year. Drug use kills 17,000 a year. And the horrible marijuana... kills 0. No death has every been directly linked to marijuana.

Pot should be banned forever. Potbrains aren't smart.

Look at the % of users, how many is healthy?

Look at the % of tobacco users, that are healthy. The effects of tobacco on the human body are far more dangerous than the effects of marijuana.

Edited July 27, 2005 by about:blank

[Celumnaz]

Pot should be banned forever. Potbrains aren't smart.

Look at the % of users, how many is healthy?

Stupid defending **** like that, would NEVER happen in Scandinavia.

there's always going to be that "enlightened" crowd of elitist philosopher-king wannabes that think laws like this at a point in time are good for everybody else.

[Kaj]

I am NOT talking about someone who tries it for a few weekends..I am talking about the ADDICTS. All they do is smoke pot, young people smoke pot and do stupid things.

A lot of potsmokers continues to heavier drugs.

Are they healthy?

Heroin?

Lots of addicts in USA...

[Kaj]

I cant belive that we even have this discussion.

Well have it your way then.

I dont have the energy to sober up drug addicts and it is not my job.

Bye

[AnhZors]

What about the alcoholic all they do is drink.. and it is illegal? no. How come not ban alcohol? well because they would kill the economy and destroy all the buisiness. They only ban bad subtanses if it doesnt contrubute any good. Marijuana started of as a product for oil, paper, frabic ext.. but when the fuel company was losing buisiness they decided to get the addictive part of the plant in use and ban it(evin thougth the adictive plant was a different breed.) But i do agree that they should stay ban most of the heavy drugs such as crystal, heroin, adt ect.....

Many of the famous people smoke pot occasionally.

-the guy who made alice in the wonderland smoke very often and his first cartoon was made from hemp.

-rodney dangerfield smoke very often to reduce his stress.

-Rick james smoke very often.

-james brown smoke alot.

and there were many many more people.

[LarryOldtimer]

I am NOT talking about someone who tries it for a few weekends..I am talking about the ADDICTS. All they do is smoke pot, young people smoke pot and do stupid things.

A lot of potsmokers continues to heavier drugs.

Are they healthy?

Heroin?

Lots of addicts in USA...

757320[/snapback]

It is interesting that before the War on Drugs, England had few addicts (known because they could get free "fixes" from their doctors. Now, they have some 50,000 heroin addicts (estimated, they really don't know how many). Now that really worked well . . . NOT.

The premise of the War on Drugs was that if we instituted draconian measures, we would soon have an almost drug-free society. Well, it has been more than 40 years since it started, illegal drug use has increased substantially, and billions upon billions of dollars have been spent on it. Abject foolishness. It is quite obvious that there is no way that a relatively drug-free society will ever be obtained, just lots of money wasted. The War on Drugs was the stupidest thing government has done since alcohol prohibition. One would think that the lessons learned then would be remembered at least for a while, but no, there is always room for more government stupidity.

The reason for the increased heroin addicts in England is quite obvious . . . when a "fix" was free, there was no way to make a profit selling it. When it became illegal, the profit margin became enormous. Thus, vast sums of money became available to criminals if they could only get people hooked on it. And so they did.

[Watzel]

One sad reality is, there are some people, kids usually, that will try drugs anyway no matter how much information they get that indicates it is not a good idea. And a large part of the reason is because of peer pressure to look cool. These same people will take longer than others to realize that the pursuit of cool is immature and ignorant. So they will be the ones that have all the problems with drug addiction.

My point is no matter if it is free or not, you will always have those that want to try it.

But legalizing it would have far greater benefits than the way it is now. And it would take away the glamour and immature desire to do something naughty and get away with it.

I would much rather know that my child that is experimenting with drugs is doing it in a controlled environment than if they were risking their life getting it from a dealer. How many daughters out there are going to sell their body for drugs when it is free. (another benefit)

But you know one thing that would stop it is all the people currently employed in the war on drugs would lose their jobs. So they would be resistant to the idea of legalization.

[Celumnaz]

drug abuse is definately destructive, but you can't prohibit it in total like this time proven.

don't think it should be free either but just like tobacco/alcohol, tax the snot out of it.

drug enforcement can either be trimmed, producing more entrepeneurs, or shifted to border or highway or some paramilitary who knows, and increased revenue from taxes and decrease in overhead can go to fund... stuff...

gets much gang related activity, terrorist income, tainted drugs, stigma, saftey concerns that can't even be talked about atm for fear, opens markets for all hemp products...

but that's getting specific, in general, what about liberty says don't grow that plant or you're in jail for 25 years?

[4dplane]

and how is it not hypocrytical of a society to create laws against taking "street" drugs, but make it legal and extremely expensive to take other pain killers made by the big drug companies, that contain the same opiate abilites a joint offers you?

huh?

i need these questions answered.

Big business created from big morals.

I do not know if it is true, but I tend to believe it is; people really do build a psychological dependency from child hood for things they desire but cannot have. I do not mean let kids run around and do all they want, but advertising to “EVERYONE”: about rock stars, parties, vacations, big homes, fast cars, yachts, jets, and knowing that the majority of people in the U.S. will never be able to obtain any of these, is a complete ploy on the American public by big business. Show people from birth what they are, what they should be, and you will drive a society to grab any part of that advertised life that they can.

If an individual does not obtain all that he or she wants, they can now pop a tablet and feel better about what they do not have. This used to be legal and cheap, now the “white man profits from your pain” (Chris Rock).

All they do is smoke pot, young people smoke pot and do stupid things.

Kids do stupid things, stoned kids on eight doobies do silly, retarded stupid things; kids who drink half a bottle of vodka, run on auto pilot.