beliefs of heaven and hell

[saladins follower]

what is ur opinion here

mine is this

why do the christians picture hell as in some what ways of their religion enemies

in some pictures,they have satan with a wide hooked nose, and those weird things,those are really hindu gods :: shrugs i know hard to belive:: and they say that the bath houses are demonic places ::shakes head:: just because muslims belive it is good to wash ur selves. and also they also killed 100,000 women belived to be witches... and some of them belived that the witches were the good ones in church,because what better soul shud satan attack than the one you would never expect this was in a book i once read this author wrote about the subject and he said if u tie rocks to a womens feet and throw her in a lake or a body of water that its not the rocks that will drown her its the mass amount of evil she has inside her that will not allow her to go up and why is it you have to accept god and jesus as your savior??does that mean you have to be christian?

my belief islam,is less harsher on the subject..we belive that god would not be this hard on people and send all of the people that did mere sins would automatically go to hell... but we belive that hell is only temporary because u need wrath to see

that you did wrong,and that you need to see that allah loves,because the suffering should not be eternal but only the worst people are only permanent

p.s. tryin to win a award here

Edited August 7, 2005 by saladins follower

[HeWhoKnowsShallNotSpeak]

The real difference between islam and christianity is that christianity tried to contrl it's believers for centuries, and in order to do that they had to say that punishments were strict. The strictness of christianity was a contrl device. Than luther realised this and stepped in to say "hey, lets make a church less malicious than the cathlics" so they did. I dont think that lutherins believe that hell is eternal (although i could be wrong).

[Great Big Sea]

I personally don't believe in the devil/satan or in hell not since grade nine or something. Oh and saladins follower it's kind hard to read your post (or anyone else's for that matter) if you don't use capitals starting a new sentence.

[Watzel]

Hmmm... I read the Quran and it keeps repeating how Christians and jews are infidels and going to hell. But that Muslims are ok and even if you are a little bad Muslim then you will still go to heaven because after all Allah is merciful.

What a bunch of mindless contradictory crap!!

Christianity is believed by so many people just like Islam is believed by so many people. In fact more people on earth are Muslims than Christians. People are stupid and will follow beliefs blindly if it fits there ignorant logic.

People believe as far as their intelligence will let them. If you honestly believe in the word of one man, Mohammed, that he spoke to God then you are not yet intelligent enough to see how insanely ignorant that really is.

God may have spoke to someone some day in the past, funny how God hasn't spoken to anyone for over 1500 years; no one mentally sane that is. But what humans wrote down about God was only what they wanted to say for their own personal agenda. Mohammed was fighting Jews and Christians, he made up the story of talking to God and a lot of people that are uneducated, as there are today, believed him. That built up his army just as he wanted it to. Then it was later embellished by the Muslim clerics and forced upon everyone from early childhood to believe it or die. Yep, you for got that part in the Quran that says if you are not a muslim then you deserve to die and go to hell like all the Christians and jews.

All religions are bad. Humans cannot believe in something without trying to possess it and proclaim that it is the only way that is the truth. When we rid the world of religion, we will rid the world of much conflict. But God is real. God is just not the one that people said God was many centuries ago.

[+Sherapy]

I have read the Quran because I was hearing from so many people that Muslim is such a gentle peaceful religion and I couldn't understand why did they bomb 9/11 and I came to the conclusion that The quran creates terrorists, its the extreme form of Fear and control and these people are groomed to kill for Allah its the greatest reward and their lives are lived in total devotion to the Quran again if you are muslim it is not unusual for you to deny that this is the truth I read the Quran as I would any other book and was shocked i also work with a Muslim women so I had someone to talk with and she confirmed that i was interpreting the Quran correctly she is very volatile and hates everyone , Namaste sheri

[iaapac]

I had several field studies in Iraq and Iran when I was in university in the 60s and believe me, the religious concepts of the Middle East are not founded upon peace or gentleness.

[Atlantis Rises]

what is ur opinion here 

mine is this

why do the christians picture hell as in some what ways of their religion enemies

in some pictures,they have satan with a wide hooked nose, and those weird things,those are really hindu gods :: shrugs i know hard to belive:: and they say that the bath houses are demonic places ::shakes head:: just because muslims belive it is good to wash ur selves. and also they also killed 100,000 women belived to be witches... and some of them belived that the witches were the good ones in church,because what better soul shud satan attack than the one you would never expect this was in a book i once read this author wrote about the subject and he said if u tie rocks to a womens feet and throw her in a lake or a body of water that its not the rocks that will drown her its the mass amount of evil she has inside her that will not allow her to go up   and why is it you have to accept god and jesus as your savior??does that mean you have to be christian?

my belief islam,is less harsher on the subject..we belive that god would not be this hard on people and send all of the people that did mere sins would automatically go to hell... but we belive that hell is only temporary because u need wrath to see

that you did wrong,and that you need to see that allah loves,because the suffering should not be eternal but only the worst people are only permanent

p.s. tryin to win a award here 

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You obviously won't win an award for spelling and grammer.

People believe what they want. Sometimes it's forced upon them, sometimes they have a choice. But what's should never be reinforced is blind faith. That only leads to religious genicide and killing in the name of their God deeming it as rightful purification of sin. Going to Hell is a scare for not commiting evil acts. Heaven is a reward. The trails in the bible is what we go through to determine where we will end up. But neither can be proven true unless you die and then you can't tell anyone. Some have claimed visions of Hell and Heaven, but nothing can be proven concretely.

Edited August 12, 2005 by Atlantis Rises

[+Sherapy]

iaapac, I was truly shocked more so than when I read the western bible but non the less , I even thought maybe I got the wrong one , so let me ask you is there a peaceful genlte muslim releigion and why do the muslims say that is not us we are about peace???? Namaste Sheri

[iaapac]

I think there is a much stronger leadership system within the religous structure of the Muslem. At the same time, there are guidelines to which he must conform, for example, he take a pilgramage to Mecca as one of the Five Pillars of the faith. When, however, this leadership becomes more radical as we saw with some of the religious figure heads in Iraq, violence is commanded in the name of Allah and to die in a jihad.

In moments of political crisis or other intenal upheavals that affect the religious tenants of the people, the more tranquil passages of their teachers are set aside and the god of vengeance takes control.

It is not unlike the gentleness of Jesus being compared with a God who told the soldiers of Israel to bash the heads of babies against rocks.

[hyperactive]

sheri, you will find that all of the abrahamic religions are bloodthirsty from a "textual" position.

islam is the completion of the family. it is the one that has the most "checks and balances" within it. it is indeed more peaceful than you are taking it to be.

the problem is that these "terrorists" and "fundamentalists" are just like the extremists found in christianity and judaism. anything can be made to serve a purpose. the middle east is a product of deep intermingling of islam and politics. it is the same as when the christian church ruled the west (read crusdades, the dark ages). the reason we had the great christian vs islam wars is because they are indeed both built on a notion of dominance and control (not just of the people subserviant to the god, but of the faith going forth and posessing that which is deemed theirs (the earth) by their god. the humor in it which shows how rediculous religion is both sided fought for the same god, of the same line of prophets, etc, etc. it was the same thing we see with ignorances such as racism and sexism on a much grander scale (because the now there was an almighty absolute to relate it all to).

you will find that the abrahamic religions are a nasty breed. much like a hornet's nest all of them. left alone to take what they want and they are very peaceful.

however, of the two being compared in this thread: if you strip away the confounding issues of theocracy you would find islam to be more complete and balanced (and peaceful) than its younger brother (with emphasis on adjusting for cultural biases and changes, the impact of theocracy, etc).

[saladins follower]

sherri are you tryin to get to every one to hate you?? i see very hating christians all the time, but i dont say anythin and all these american people reading the quran you know how hard that is to belive... Well can you belive that jesus is the son of god? can u belive that moses is the prophet of the hebrews? yes i guess when it comes to jesus oh hes real.. why is it so hard to belive that. The Quran was not written word for word by muhammad ? Do you know why is that sherri

saladin out

[iac_tracker]

God may have spoke to someone some day in the past, funny how God hasn't spoken to anyone for over 1500 years; no one mentally sane that is

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I don't know about you but God speaks to me everyday I know I may be young But i seek his knowledge and i can see the big picture. Just look ,got creates miracles everyday remember actions are lowder than words. What do you expect for there to be a big earthquake and for the clouds to part and this deep voice come from nowhere and say what you want him to say? Well i got bad news thats not gonna happen.

I AM PROUD TO BE CATHOLIC

Edited August 13, 2005 by iac_tracker

[Watzel]

I believe that Mohammed was the devil.

[+Sherapy]

sherri are you tryin to get to every one to hate you?? i see very hating christians all the time, but i dont say anythin and all these american people reading the quran    you know how hard that is to belive... Well can you belive that jesus is the son of god? can u belive that moses is the prophet of the hebrews? yes i guess when it comes to jesus oh hes real.. why is it so hard to belive that. The Quran was not written word for word by muhammad ? Do you know why is that sherri

saladin out

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Saladin if you choose to hate me for what your Quran states in black and white so be it I'm not christian I have read the Quran have a copy of it , all religons are fear producing some are worse that others in my opinion but religion speaks of a venegeful and punishing God as with all religons there are those that are highly evolved do not give lip service to the fear aspects of the Bible but very few, least of all the Quran its very clear on what it wants from its followers

Surah 9:38 and 9:39

O ye who believe! What is the matter with you , that when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth?

Unless ye go forth, he (Allah) will punish you with a grievious penalty,

Saladin this is from the Quran that is why I say the Quran creates terrorists this is the truth I'm sorry you don't see that.)

Surah 8:67

It is not for a prophet to have captives(of war) until he inflicts a masacre (upon Alllahs enemies) in the land. You (that is Muslims) desire the commodities of this world but Allah desires for you the hereafter and Allah is exalted in might and wise??

the quran doesn't mince words it is said Surah 2:21

O mankind worship your lord who created you and those before you that you may become righteous.

Surah 1:2 1:7

All praise is due to Allah, lord of the worlds

the path of those upon whom you have bestowed favor, not of those who have evoked(YOur) anger or those who are astray.

Saladin What is your response to these Surah's Namaste sheri

[saladins follower]

very simple is it possible the honorable prophet was referring to the early muslim crusaders (talking about Surah 9:38 and 9:39

O ye who believe! What is the matter with you , that when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth?) when its time to fight for your religion, and take back mecca.??? is it possible,

is it possible the jihad (holy war) was reffering to when the christians were trying to take back jerusalem

ur just hard headed some times all it is

Edited August 16, 2005 by saladins follower

[hyperactive]

I believe that Mohammed was the devil. 

791887[/snapback]

and i think that of christianity..... (that is a a great evil spread across the land to bring about the destruction of humanity).

very simple  is it possible the honorable prophet was referring to the early muslim crusaders (talking about  Surah 9:38 and 9:39

O ye who believe! What is the matter with you , that when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth?) when its time to fight for your religion, and take back mecca.??? is it possible,

is it possible the jihad (holy war) was reffering to when the christians were trying to take back jerusalem 

ur just hard headed some times all it is 

792428[/snapback]

yes, jihad means exertion. the mistake made is that islam calls for defense. it is not a pacifistic religion (like is bretheren). it does not call to be the agressor, but to defend (by the sword where necessary). a jihad to a muslim is equivilant to a "just war" in christianity. for those that don't understand this; war such as those led by the bush presidents could also be called jihads if we want to start labeling things to serve our own purposes - bush's call their wars just and they proclaim themselves christian... )

and no, i am not muslim. i just tire of all the western misconceptions of this religion, especially when they come from an a group that is by no means "of unbloodied hands" (christianity).

here is a test, which of christianity and islam calls for the equal treatment of women? hint: it isn't christianity!

[+Sherapy]

I believe that Mohammed was the devil. 

791887[/snapback]

and i think that of christianity..... (that is a a great evil spread across the land to bring about the destruction of humanity).

very simple  is it possible the honorable prophet was referring to the early muslim crusaders (talking about  Surah 9:38 and 9:39

O ye who believe! What is the matter with you , that when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth?) when its time to fight for your religion, and take back mecca.??? is it possible,

is it possible the jihad (holy war) was reffering to when the christians were trying to take back jerusalem 

ur just hard headed some times all it is 

792428[/snapback]

yes, jihad means exertion. the mistake made is that islam calls for defense. it is not a pacifistic religion (like is bretheren). it does not call to be the agressor, but to defend (by the sword where necessary). a jihad to a muslim is equivilant to a "just war" in christianity. for those that don't understand this; war such as those led by the bush presidents could also be called jihads if we want to start labeling things to serve our own purposes - bush's call their wars just and they proclaim themselves christian... )

and no, i am not muslim. i just tire of all the western misconceptions of this religion, especially when they come from an a group that is by no means "of unbloodied hands" (christianity).

here is a test, which of christianity and islam calls for the equal treatment of women? hint: it isn't christianity!

792492[/snapback]

Hyper I ask you are there different expessions of Muslim I have haerd they are a peaceful loving religion I'm not obseving that I have researched myself and have come to the conclusion that Muslim has become misunderstood as well as Christainity what may of started as a great idea got lost in translation, the bombings of 9/11 were an example of that religion as is is the source of serious problems I know you don't disagree. Namaste Sheri

[hyperactive]

sheri,

the best way to think of all three of the abrahamic religions is like hornet's nests.

if they were alone (no other competing hornets) they would peacefully go about their business. however, they are not alone, and they know it, for they each have their 2 brothers to compete with. ever watch brothers compete? well this is not a friendly competition. this is a "make or break" competition for the rule of the world for they all see the world as theirs (since they all follow the same basic views on the earth being god's gift to them to have dominion over).

all three religions completely allow for warring in the defence of what is theirs. now what is really "theirs"? that is where all the variations on each religion start to come into play. some abrahamic people are happy to share, some are not.

back to the hornet's nest: rile an abrahamic religion up and you get stung! there is no doubt about that. ready to sting they always are, be it terrorists, or giant armies, or massive strategic weapons stockpiles. the abrahamic religions are paranoid, and in fear of their god (no matter what some of them will tell you, the basis for the religions is fear - and denial). what does that breed? look at the world today! are we a people at peace with ourselves, with nature? are we surrounded by societies that promote violence and hatred, fear and dillusion, denial and false supremacy?

the best way to look at the trio is to view it as the "line of prophets" and remove the boundaries defining the three sects otherwise you will put 90% of your effort into analyzing the 10% that differentiates them. if i am around a nest of stinging flying instects i do not concern myself with "are they wasps or hornets" but rather with not getting stung! (to simplify it greatly)

if there is such a thing as a conscious force influencing humanity then i think it to be a rather nasty thing indeed if it is the one to have beset this trio of beliefs upon humanity.

[+Sherapy]

Thankyou hyper that was stated and well articulated l I understand Namaste Sheri

[Watzel]

I think now is the time for religions to be understood for what they really are. And I think that the way Islam has been brought to the forefront of the worlds consciousness recently indicates that it is time to dissect these religious beliefs. We are, collectively, beginning to open our eyes to just how misdirected religions can be. Christianity is no different from all the rest. All religions need to be recognized as dangerous in their interpretations. Therefore, organized religion should be outlawed. Not ban religion, but ban the organized groups of religion. People should only be allowed to worship in private, in their own family and their own dwelling.

[101]

God may have spoke to someone some day in the past, funny how God hasn't spoken to anyone for over 1500 years; no one mentally sane that is

786967[/snapback]

I don't know about you but God speaks to me everyday I know I may be young But i seek his knowledge and i can see the big picture. Just look ,got creates miracles everyday remember actions are lowder than words. What do you expect for there to be a big earthquake and for the clouds to part and this deep voice come from nowhere and say what you want him to say? Well i got bad news thats not gonna happen.

I AM PROUD TO BE CATHOLIC

787605[/snapback]

God speaks to me too. I am glad that God talks to me and I have a relationship with him.

[+Paranoid Android]

I think now is the time for religions to be understood for what they really are. And I think that the way Islam has been brought to the forefront of the worlds consciousness recently indicates that it is time to dissect these religious beliefs.  We are, collectively, beginning to open our eyes to just how misdirected religions can be.  Christianity is no different from all the rest. All religions need to be recognized as dangerous in their interpretations. Therefore, organized religion should be outlawed. Not ban religion, but ban the organized groups of religion. People should only be allowed to worship in private, in their own family and their own dwelling.

793151[/snapback]

I can see the logic in that, but what if I have a friend who is of the same belief as me. does that mean I cannot worship with him or her?

[hyperactive]

what if I have a friend who is of the same belief as me. does that mean I cannot worship with him or her?

that would all depend on the view of those defining "organized". two people agreeing to meet and discuss a particular item is the basis of "organiziation". of course, nobody is going to be there (at least i hope not) to police what any 2 people are getting together for.

pamphlets or promotion of other kinds is perhaps another issue.

organized religion isn't going to be "removed" from society so quickly though. just like tobacco, too many have the habit. like the tobacco industry, we should madate organized religion to contribute a % of their dollars to funding a truth/awareness organization.

[101]

Hi Hyper, I know you find this hard to believe but my pastor tells us the truth even if it makes us unhappy. Some of the old members of the church that were use to the first pastor left. They were scared and angry.

But to find out the truth a person must read about what they are doing and not rely on heresay.

[hyperactive]

101, everybody has his or her own truth. 10 people get together and agree on something, and they have a common truth. 100 people get together....

so what if 10 million people get together and agree that flying purple elephants exist? it is the truth to them.....

there is "my truth", "your truth", ... but what of "the truth"? well, the admission of our lacking of understanding is too much for many. that is why we have religion/superstition/myth/legend in the first place.