35 replies to this topic

[TheLastLazyGun]

JamieSymptom, on 05 December 2012 - 01:18 PM, said:

The problem with right-wing supporters is that they see everyone who doesn't fully agree with them as 'liberal left', when that is far from the case.

The problem with the Liberal Left is that they see anyone who disagrees with their bizarre and unpopular views as being "racist", when that is far from the case.

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I do think that immigration is a big fat scapegoat for the UK's problems. Why does immigration worry you? This nation is built by immigrants. Are you worried about English people emigrating to Spain or Australia? I see huge double standards in the immigration debate.

When the NHS and other public services start creaking under the weight of unchecked immigration into our already overcrowded land let's see how much you will love immigration then.

The fact is that you Lefties are very much in the minority over immigration.  You label as racist any person and and party which disagrees with the Lefty view that immigration is a good thing but, at the end of the day, seven in ten (71%) of Britons say there are too many immigrants in the country and just a quarter (27%) believe immigration is good for the economy according to new research from Ipsos MORI.

Not only that, but three quarters (76%) of Britons agree that immigration has placed too much pressure on public services while three in five (62%) agree that immigration has made it more difficult for British people to get jobs.

http://www.ipsos-mor...Immigrants.aspx

Edited by TheLastLazyGun, 05 December 2012 - 05:28 PM.

[JamieSymptom]

TheLastLazyGun, on 05 December 2012 - 05:19 PM, said:

Yes, it is.  It's now overtaken the extremely unpopular Liberal Democrats as Britain's third party.

Their two great appeals to the British public are their desire to leave the EU and their justified belief that there is too much immigration into the UK.  Alongside the economy and the EU, immigration is the thing which most concerns the British people.

What is your source for stating they are Britain's third party? I won't deny that the LDs are very unpopular at the moment, and I know that UKIP have beaten them at a couple of recent local elections, but that is a far cry from them being Britain's Third Party. I will be happy to accept that they are if it is a proven figure, but until I see that proof I will have to continue considering them as much of a fringe as the Greens or the BNP or the Respect party.

TheLastLazyGun, on 05 December 2012 - 05:27 PM, said:

The problem with the Liberal Left is that they see anyone who disagrees with their bizarre and unpopular views as being "racist", when that is far from the case.

Well, that's rather childish. Hope you feel better for it. I'm still not a lefty, but if you continue to say I am, you're rather proving my point.

TheLastLazyGun, on 05 December 2012 - 05:27 PM, said:

When the NHS and other public services start creaking under the weight of unchecked immigration into our already overcrowded land let's see how much you will love immigration then.

The fact is that you Lefties are very much in the minority over immigration.  You label as racist any person and and party which disagrees with the Lefty view that immigration is a good thing but, at the end of the day, seven in ten (71%) of Britons say there are too many immigrants in the country and just a quarter (27%) believe immigration is good for the economy according to new research from Ipsos MORI.

Not only that, but three quarters (76%) of Britons agree that immigration has placed too much pressure on public services while three in five (62%) agree that immigration has made it more difficult for British people to get jobs.

http://www.ipsos-mor...Immigrants.aspx

Just because some people think that immigration is a problem, it doesn't mean it actually is. I'm quite willing to accept that 76% of Britons think immigration is a problem, I just don't have any evidence that it actually IS a problem.

The media is quite happy to promote anti-foreigner feeling, and particularly islamaphobia - it's not surprising that a lot of people feel that way.

I try to make people think though - what are the ACTUAL, VERIFIABLE, CONCRETE negative effects of immigration?

Where I live in Halifax, all I see is immigrants contributing to society by driving our taxis, cooking our food, selling us produce. And I see a lot of white native Britons sitting on their arses claiming benefits. I do see that sector of society as a drain on resources.

I'm open minded, I judge people on their actions rather than their place of birth. If you can convince me that immigrants are having an overall negative effect on Britain, I will consider one of the anti-immigration parties at the next election.

PS, please stop calling me a Lefty. I'm not, and if you continue to do so, you are continuing to prove my point.

[shaddow134]

JamieSymptom, on 06 December 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

Where I live in Halifax, all I see is immigrants contributing to society by driving our taxis, cooking our food, selling us produce. And I see a lot of white native Britons sitting on their arses claiming benefits. I do see that sector of society as a drain on resources.

Sign of the times really,when the indigenous population of any Country won't do certain jobs then the authorities bring in Migrant workers to fill these Jobs.Then the resident population  start b****ing..

Edited by shaddow134, 08 December 2012 - 02:58 AM.

[TheLastLazyGun]

shaddow134, on 08 December 2012 - 02:58 AM, said:

Sign of the times really,when the indigenous population of any Country won't do certain jobs then the authorities bring in Migrant workers to fill these Jobs.Then the resident population  start b****ing..

Are you seriously saying that native Britons aren't driving taxis, cooking our food and selling us produce?

[TheLastLazyGun]

JamieSymptom, on 06 December 2012 - 04:17 PM, said:

What is your source for stating they are Britain's third party? I won't deny that the LDs are very unpopular at the moment, and I know that UKIP have beaten them at a couple of recent local elections, but that is a far cry from them being Britain's Third Party.

I think it's already very much established that UKIP is now very much on its way to overtaking the LibDumbs as Britain's third party.  All you have to do it Google "UKIP are becoming Britain's third party" and you will see hundreds of websites which prove my point.

The pro-EU, pro-immigration LibDumbs are dead.  They are no more.  They will not even register on the radar at the next election.  The British public, in general, are Eurosceptic and are also angered by the rate of immigration into their country and they are some of the reasons why the public has turned its back on the LibDumbs and why UKIP are very much on the rise.  That's why I believe it's a cert that UKIP will finish third in the 2015 General Election.

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I will be happy to accept that they are if it is a proven figure, but until I see that proof I will have to continue considering them as much of a fringe as the Greens or the BNP or the Respect party.

UKIP a fringe party?

Try telling that to the Conservatives, who very much know that UKIP are NOT a fringe party anymore, so much so that they are currently running scared of them, with some Tory MPs even calling for a Tory/UKIP coalition government.

And no EU in/out referendum which the majority of the British people want by 2015 = the Conservatives losing votes to UKIP in the 2015 General Election, which will cause UKIP's rise as the UK's third party to accelerate even more

And try telling that to the people of Rotherham (where the nasty Labour council took Slovakian children off a UKIP couple because they said, wrongly, that UKIP are a racist party) and Middlesbrough, two constituence where UKIP have just finished SECOND in the recent by-elections.  Try telling that to the people of Croydon North, where they finished THIRD.  (Labour were punished in Rotherham over their actions by seeing 7.3% of their votes go to UKIP)

And it's almost certain that UKIP will WIN the next EU Elections in Britain.  They finished second last time.

So UKIP are hardly a "fringe" party anymore.

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Just because some people think that immigration is a problem, it doesn't mean it actually is. I'm quite willing to accept that 76% of Britons think immigration is a problem, I just don't have any evidence that it actually IS a problem.

So, in your view, over three-quarters of Britons are wrong?  That's typical of the average Lefty.  Anyone who disagrees with the Lefty worldview - for example, anyone who believes there is too much immigration - is "wrong" and "racist", even if the Lefty view represents only, at most, just one quarter of the population.

Tell you what, when the NHS and other vital public services are being put under strain due to the huge amount of immigration into this country - it was revealed last week that an incredible 1.5% of the total population of the eight Eastern European members of the EU live in the UK - let's see how much you continue to support all this immigration into our country then.

I, for one, fully support this government's attempts to reduce immigration into Britain from the hundreds of thousands to the tens of thousands by 2015.

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I try to make people think though - what are the ACTUAL, VERIFIABLE, CONCRETE negative effects of immigration?

Here are a few for starters:

1)  Since 1997 three-quarters of employment created in the UK economy has been taken by immigrants.  It's no wonder that many Brits are struggling to find work.  The Left, however, still believes it's a myth that migrants are taking most of the jobs, despite the evidence;
2)  Increasing immigration means longer waits for council houses;
3)  Services such as the NHS are struggling to cope with the huge wave of migrants.  In some areas, immigrants are using A&E departments instead of GP surgeries and some areas are struggling to find enough GPs to cope with all the newcomers.  Schools are also struggling with the number of immigrants arriving into the country;
4)  In 2007, the Labour Government - which had a poor record on immigration, it opened the door to vast numbers of immigrants - admitted that the huge influx of people to the UK has placed a huge strain on public services, caused crime to increase, caused community tensions to rise, caused an increase in house prices and placed huge strain on the NHS.

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Where I live in Halifax, all I see is immigrants contributing to society by driving our taxis, cooking our food, selling us produce.

I see lots of native Britons doing those jobs  -  if they are able to get those jobs, that is.

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And I see a lot of white native Britons sitting on their arses claiming benefits.

I see large jobless Afghan families in London on £170,000 in benefits given £1.2 million ten-bedroom homes complete with new furniture, 32-inch plasma TV and Nintendo games consoles, whose £12,500 a month rent is paid for by the taxpayer.

Edited by TheLastLazyGun, 08 December 2012 - 03:35 PM.

[Feebs]

i am all for equality but it should spin both ways...we have a shop here called the 99p store and not one person in there is from britain at birth...my daughter has at countless times tried to get a job there when advertised and she never even gets an interview...i myself spoke to the manager and he said he is giving the minority a helping hand...thats bull****....how can they do this in a so called equal opportunities country...if say marks and spencers were to do it and only employ british born people they would be severly dealt with and called racist .....i have no issue with people coming here to live but when it means they get better treatment than our own then it is wrong...thats the issue the british people have not the fact they are here...i dont get food stamps...i dont get money to call home...i dont get money for clothes or money for a car...and i know they get this as i wroked with someone who got exactly this and they were working in a job the same as me...same hours and same money...a single guy getting all this help...i never got it with 4 kids...also single men coming over from other countries are being housed when our own population are not...one local council worker told me "off the record" that if i threw away my passport and appraoched them id get more help.. ...the whole country needs a big shake up and our views took into account but we are becoming the minority here...our government is too worried about being politically correct ...it shouldnt matter about what your views are or anything when fostering unless there is reason to believe it would come to an abusive placement...love is what a child needs x

[JamieSymptom]

TheLastLazyGun, on 08 December 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

I think it's already very much established that UKIP is now very much on its way to overtaking the LibDumbs as Britain's third party.  All you have to do it Google "UKIP are becoming Britain's third party" and you will see hundreds of websites which prove my point.

The pro-EU, pro-immigration LibDumbs are dead.  They are no more.  They will not even register on the radar at the next election.  The British public, in general, are Eurosceptic and are also angered by the rate of immigration into their country and they are some of the reasons why the public has turned its back on the LibDumbs and why UKIP are very much on the rise.  That's why I believe it's a cert that UKIP will finish third in the 2015 General Election.

UKIP a fringe party?

Try telling that to the Conservatives, who very much know that UKIP are NOT a fringe party anymore, so much so that they are currently running scared of them, with some Tory MPs even calling for a Tory/UKIP coalition government.

And no EU in/out referendum which the majority of the British people want by 2015 = the Conservatives losing votes to UKIP in the 2015 General Election, which will cause UKIP's rise as the UK's third party to accelerate even more

And try telling that to the people of Rotherham (where the nasty Labour council took Slovakian children off a UKIP couple because they said, wrongly, that UKIP are a racist party) and Middlesbrough, two constituence where UKIP have just finished SECOND in the recent by-elections.  Try telling that to the people of Croydon North, where they finished THIRD.  (Labour were punished in Rotherham over their actions by seeing 7.3% of their votes go to UKIP)

And it's almost certain that UKIP will WIN the next EU Elections in Britain.  They finished second last time.

So UKIP are hardly a "fringe" party anymore.

As I said before, coming second/third place or even winning the odd local election does not equate to being Britain's third party. If you had some figures from a reputable source to present to me instead of advising that I google and wade through a morass of badly written right-wing blogs epsousing UKIP as the saviours of Britain - I might pay attention.

TheLastLazyGun, on 08 December 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

So, in your view, over three-quarters of Britons are wrong?  That's typical of the average Lefty.  Anyone who disagrees with the Lefty worldview - for example, anyone who believes there is too much immigration - is "wrong" and "racist", even if the Lefty view represents only, at most, just one quarter of the population.

Despite me pointing it out to you, you are still perpetuating the stereotype of right-wingers polarising even slight dissention as 'Lefty'. And yes, I do believe that a large number of people are being misled by the tabloid press and disengenious politicians into thinking that our problems are caused by immigration.

TheLastLazyGun, on 08 December 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

Tell you what, when the NHS and other vital public services are being put under strain due to the huge amount of immigration into this country - it was revealed last week that an incredible 1.5% of the total population of the eight Eastern European members of the EU live in the UK - let's see how much you continue to support all this immigration into our country then.

I, for one, fully support this government's attempts to reduce immigration into Britain from the hundreds of thousands to the tens of thousands by 2015.

Here are a few for starters:

1)  Since 1997 three-quarters of employment created in the UK economy has been taken by immigrants.  It's no wonder that many Brits are struggling to find work.  The Left, however, still believes it's a myth that migrants are taking most of the jobs, despite the evidence;
2)  Increasing immigration means longer waits for council houses;
3)  Services such as the NHS are struggling to cope with the huge wave of migrants.  In some areas, immigrants are using A&E departments instead of GP surgeries and some areas are struggling to find enough GPs to cope with all the newcomers.  Schools are also struggling with the number of immigrants arriving into the country;
4)  In 2007, the Labour Government - which had a poor record on immigration, it opened the door to vast numbers of immigrants - admitted that the huge influx of people to the UK has placed a huge strain on public services, caused crime to increase, caused community tensions to rise, caused an increase in house prices and placed huge strain on the NHS.

1) Show me a source that proves immigrants take more jobs than natives. I find that very hard to believe as immigrants account for just 12.3% of the population (in 2011 - http://migrationobse...nts-uk-overview)

2) Source for that? I'm aware there is a shortage of council housing, but how is this the fault of immigration? This study shows that immigration has had much more impact on the Private Rented Sector and very little on Council Housing: http://england.shelt...and_housing.pdf

3) Again, sources for those claims? - It is well known that NHS Trusts and Schools are underfunded and oversubscribed, but how is this the fault of immigration? It is much more the fault of native population growth and government budget cuts, surely?

4) All governments will say what they think their electorate want to hear. It doesn't make it fact. Labour in particular were constantly trying to court the right-wing vote with regards to immigration.

TheLastLazyGun, on 08 December 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

I see lots of native Britons doing those jobs  -  if they are able to get those jobs, that is.

I see large jobless Afghan families in London on £170,000 in benefits given £1.2 million ten-bedroom homes complete with new furniture, 32-inch plasma TV and Nintendo games consoles, whose £12,500 a month rent is paid for by the taxpayer.

How do you know this family? How do you know how much their house is worth and what they have inside of it? Did the Daily Mail tell you?

I would take your opinion more seriously if it had some facts and sources in it. Or even some considered questions about why I hold my opinion. You just seem interested in spouting right-wing propaganda.

You continually bring up racism, even though my only reference to it was to answer a question from you. Why is this?