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What if Dinosaurs kept evolving?


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#16    questionmark

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 03:26 PM

View PostMyles, on 15 May 2013 - 02:58 PM, said:

They are intelligent compared to other animals. Still far away from human intelligence.

some humans is the right definition: some humans.

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#17    Abramelin

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 03:26 PM

View PostMyles, on 15 May 2013 - 02:58 PM, said:

They are intelligent compared to other animals. Still far away from human intelligence.

But Amalthe talked about intelligence, not human intelligence.

And what's "far away" : there are biologists who consider corvids (especially ravens and also crows) to be inbetween humans and apes concerning intelligence.

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Edited by Abramelin, 15 May 2013 - 04:01 PM.


#18    questionmark

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 03:28 PM

The point is that we don't know how "evolute" the dinos were. There are many species and mot we know about them is what they looked like. As far as humans would not exist... that is highly speculative. Mammals existed even in the dino time...in fact, when the dinos gave up the spoon it was mammals that took their place.

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#19    Oniomancer

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 03:34 PM

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 15 May 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

Evolution as we currently know, does not explain anything. It is imaginary and speculative in nature.
Dinosaurs and Men may have lived side by side, we do not know for sure.

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Lots and lots of nice dinosaur fossils of all kinds.

Not a single verifiable pre-Pliocene Homo Sapiens fossil. Not even a single pre-Cenozoic mammal larger than a small dog.

'Nuff said.

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#20    Oniomancer

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 03:41 PM

There's a nice book on the subject called "The New Dinosaurs: An Alternative Evolution" by Doughal Dixon, author of "After Man: A Zoology of The Future."

http://www.amazon.co...n/dp/0449904423

It barely even touches on intelligence.

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#21    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 03:47 PM

View Postthird_eye, on 15 May 2013 - 11:41 AM, said:

Yeah Abe ... I suspected his intentions even before he went all link crazy ... I still attest to his talents though I detest his intentions ...
This now explains a lot. Until this thread I knew nothing about cremo. Pity I did not know this two weeks ago as it would have saved me a lot of work in a certain other thread.........


#22    johnny blue eyes

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 04:08 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 15 May 2013 - 12:08 PM, said:

Dolphins have no 'hands' and still are remarkably intelligent. Just like crows and ravens and parrots.
Dolphins do have 5 digit bone structures under both left and right flippers and are believed to have once been a land animal which evolved into a sea creature. Weird!
Anyway, how accurate are our dating techniques? Im not convinced they are reliable.


#23    Abramelin

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 05:03 PM

View Postjohnny blue eyes, on 15 May 2013 - 04:08 PM, said:

Dolphins do have 5 digit bone structures under both left and right flippers and are believed to have once been a land animal which evolved into a sea creature. Weird!
Anyway, how accurate are our dating techniques? Im not convinced they are reliable.

OK, now ask them to pick up the phone or play cards with those 'hands',lol.





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#24    third_eye

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 05:10 PM

View PostTutankhaten-pasheri, on 15 May 2013 - 03:47 PM, said:

This now explains a lot. Until this thread I knew nothing about cremo. Pity I did not know this two weeks ago as it would have saved me a lot of work in a certain other thread.........

I for one thought you knew ... I apologise

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#25    flbrnt

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 05:13 PM

I have an evolved dinosaur living in my living room. His name is Sonny and he is a cockatiel. He has not written an epic poem or philosophized about the nature of the universe (to my knowledge, anyway) but he is more intelligent than most mammals his size. I can see his kind evolving into a language intensive technological species some day. Also, anytime you are developing an overblown image of human intelligence try reading the comments section on Yahoo News. :passifier:


#26    Oniomancer

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 06:43 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 15 May 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

OK, now ask them to pick up the phone or play cards with those 'hands',lol.

Actually, dolphins do have a...er...grasping appendage of sorts they can use to pick up and carry objects. Hint, it's not the mouth.

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#27    jaylemurph

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Posted 15 May 2013 - 08:17 PM

View PostHarsh86_Patel, on 15 May 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

Evolution as we currently know, does not explain anything. It is imaginary and speculative in nature.
Dinosaurs and Men may have lived side by side, we do not know for sure.

Ahh, you misspelled "I" again. "We" means everybody, and I'm sure you can find plenty of people here who do understand evolution, and they may take offense at you determining what people who are not you know or do not know.

So again, your sentence should read "Evolution as I currently know does not explain anything... I do not know for sure." [grammar sic]

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Deeply venial

#28    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 05:34 AM

View PostAmalthe, on 15 May 2013 - 11:38 AM, said:

Problem is that in evolutionary terms, nature tends to adapt with short term changes, such as strenght or size, that are attributes that are more used to adapt to environment. Intelligence is more of long term evolutionary investment. So in essence, reptiles had enough time do hone their evolutionary characteristic to supreme level. Therefore TRex was really pinnacle of land predator evolution, only thing left to be would be to improve size and strenght. Take for instance his "hands" which went being smaller and smaller because they havent been used. In reality, obtaining intelligence through evolution is very difficult to explain, and that's why you don't have intelligent insects, birds or reptiles. So personally i am in favor of intelligent design. Take notice that most succesful creatures in terms of evolution when develop final form, tend to remain like that for millions of years, like ants for instance.
The evolutionist will tell you:
1."No no no you don't understand how evolution works.."
2.Evolution doesn't have any predetermined direction i.e the animal/man cannot choose which part will evolve or develop.
3.Survival of the fittest governs the course of evolution as the random mutations are selected by Natural selection.

But more or less the doubt you projected is right and evolving a brain and consciousness is the biggest challenge the evolutionists face, i.e they cannot explain it.


#29    Harsh86_Patel

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 05:37 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 15 May 2013 - 03:26 PM, said:

But Amalthe talked about intelligence, not human intelligence.

And what's "far away" : there are biologists who consider corvids (especially ravens and also crows) to be inbetween humans and apes concerning intelligence.

.
Human intelliogence? you mean consciousness and the capability to ponder on abstract ideas? There is no real proof that animals don't have the same.

The way brains function on a memory level and how memory is stored is still very poorly understood.


#30    Frank Merton

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Posted 16 May 2013 - 06:23 AM

As someone above pointed out, the dinosaurs that survived became birds, and the forelimbs evolved for flight, subsequently becoming either somewhat vestigial or for swimming in a few lines but mostly limited to flight.  Undoing this adaptation has not happened in over 60 million years, so I doubt it could (too many interdependent features and genes).

That left mammals to evolve their forelimbs into something other than locomotion tools, and it happened in tree-climbing mammals and a few insectivores.   By happy coincidence tree climbing also favors more upright posture and stereoscopic color vision and less dependence on the sense of smell (freeing up huge brain areas).  Even then, though, over 40 million years passed before anything like us showed up.

We have a statistical sample of just one, so my conclusion is probably wrong.  Still, the dinosaurs evolved here and there for a couple hundred million years and effectively went in circles, mammals did the same for 50 million years.  It would seem to appear that the appearance of human-like intelligence is not a given, but an extremely lucky coincidence of factors coming together.





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