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The History of Schizophrenia


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#16    scowl

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 07:24 PM

View Postnotforgotten, on 12 April 2013 - 06:44 PM, said:

But, the truth is that it wasn't valid, effective, promising, nor revolutionary. It destroyed  many  lives and the scientific community gave him a Nobel Prize for it!

You don't know much about the history of mental disorders. Do you want to talk about destroyed lives? Before then, people were locked up because nothing could be done to help them. This is what the medical community was trying to change.

You don't know much about Nobel Prizes. All these operations were experimental. No one was claiming that it was a cure for mental disorders but in some cases it had an undeniably positive effect that can't be dismissed even today. That proved that it was having some positive effect and it certainly promised better treatment as more was understood about the brain. This is what will win you a Nobel Prize.

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Also, there is still no cure for schizophrenia and yet today the doctors lie about what their patients have been telling them all along, that what they are experiencing is real, making psychiatrists still the quack doctors they have been all along.

I have personally seen people so delusional that they couldn't count to twenty who were then back in college classes a week later after getting medication. This was back in the 80's when all they had were crude dopamine blockers like Haldol.

There are thousands of chronic schizophrenics who are completely aware of their disease and gladly take medication because they have found it allows them to live functional lives. Even more persuasive are the cases of acute schizophrenics. These people only have schizophrenic periods, usually triggered by stress or other conditions. They can tell you that during a schizophrenic period, medication will allow them to function nearly as well as when they're not going through a period.

But you're right about one thing: there is no cure for schizophrenia and no legitimate doctor will tell you anything else.


#17    spartan max2

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 07:31 PM

I would agree with you maybe except for the fact that people who have really long peroids of depression start to have auditory hallucinations  as well.

" I imagine that the intellegent people are the ones so intellegent that they dont even need or want to look "intellegent" anymore".
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#18    notforgotten

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 08:03 PM

View Postscowl, on 12 April 2013 - 07:24 PM, said:

You don't know much about the history of mental disorders. Do you want to talk about destroyed lives? Before then, people were locked up because nothing could be done to help them. This is what the medical community was trying to change.

And killing people in the process.


You don't know much about Nobel Prizes. All these operations were experimental. No one was claiming that it was a cure for mental disorders but in some cases it had an undeniably positive effect that can't be dismissed even today. That proved that it was having some positive effect and it certainly promised better treatment as more was understood about the brain. This is what will win you a Nobel Prize.

No one with blood on their hands deserves a Nobel Prize. Modern medical science knows very little about the brain, especially considering they believe that the testimonies people give about God, Jesus, angels, saints and the devils is a chemical imbalance and is all in the brain.


I have personally seen people so delusional that they couldn't count to twenty who were then back in college classes a week later after getting medication. This was back in the 80's when all they had were crude dopamine blockers like Haldol.

Attacks from the lying/deceiving devils can make people that way, even drive them insane. It's good to hear that those people stopped what they were doing that was bringing the evil spirits in their lives and got back in school.


There are thousands of chronic schizophrenics who are completely aware of their disease and gladly take medication because they have found it allows them to live functional lives. Even more persuasive are the cases of acute schizophrenics. These people only have schizophrenic periods, usually triggered by stress or other conditions. They can tell you that during a schizophrenic period, medication will allow them to function nearly as well as when they're not going through a period.

Schizophrenics often lie about the effectiveness of medication to pacify the doctors and government who threaten to take away their disability check if they stop taking it. What you are speaking of is forced compliance, no one wants to go hungry. Also, schizophrenics are aware that medication can be forced upon them if they don't take it. The truth is that most schizophrenics don't take their medication at all.


But you're right about one thing: there is no cure for schizophrenia and no legitimate doctor will tell you anything else.


Edited by notforgotten, 12 April 2013 - 08:23 PM.


#19    notforgotten

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 09:41 PM

View PostHavocWing, on 12 April 2013 - 06:36 PM, said:

Do you guys ever stop crying wolf?
Not when the wolves are real, wear a suit and tie, have a college degree and claim to be "authorities" on something they truly know very little about. The term "quack" comes from doctors like these.


#20    scowl

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 09:43 PM

View Postnotforgotten, on 12 April 2013 - 08:03 PM, said:

No one with blood on their hands deserves a Nobel Prize.

You don't know anything about Nobel Prizes, pal.

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Modern medical science knows very little about the brain, especially considering they believe that the testimonies people give about God, Jesus, angels, saints and the devils is a chemical imbalance and is all in the brain.

And where is this belief documented? Many doctors in mental health are dedicated Christians and Jews.

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Attacks from the lying/deceiving devils can make people that way, even drive them insane. It's good to hear that those people stopped what they were doing that was bringing the evil spirits in their lives and got back in school.


How do you know that medications didn't ward off these "evil spirits" and cure them? In any case we had people come in with no ability to function at all and they left almost entirely cured and remained that way. What you would have done? Held an exorcism? Sent them to a Scientologist?

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Schizophrenics often lie about the effectiveness of medication to pacify the doctors and government who threaten to take away their disability check if they stop taking it.


These people are not on disability. They have regular jobs, some in highly technical fields. I don't think they'd appreciate you calling them liars and accusing them of cheating the government for checks they aren't receiving.

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Also, schizophrenics are aware that medication can be forced upon them if they don't take it.


Schizophrenics cannot be forced to take medication unless they are institutionalized.

Quote

The truth is that most schizophrenics don't take their medication at all.


Maybe you don't but in my experience with working with chronic schizophrenics most do take their medication. They understand their condition and appreciate what medical science has done for them.

It's a more flexible situation for acute schizophrenics since most of the time they have no symptoms so they have no need for medication. Some are very good at recognizing the onset of symptoms and start taking medication when they appear. There are others who are chronic but have very mild symptoms. That's also a difficult situation because their mental state is often good but they can have unpredictable and transitory symptoms that in many cases don't seriously affect their lives. Many of these people go unmedicated because the benefits are marginal but their mental state is regularly checked for changes. Despite what most people believe, schizophrenia can often have very mild symptoms or none at all for some periods. The raving lunatic talking to themselves is more the exception in the disease.

It's odd that you would rather that these people remain dysfunctional and experience terrifying hallucinations and debilitating delusions. Then you call the doctors cruel for giving them help that has been proven effective in clinical study after clinical study!


#21    SpiritWriter

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 09:53 PM

Thank you for opening this can of worms notforgotten. I am with you on this ;)

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#22    Glorfindel

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 10:02 PM

View Postscowl, on 12 April 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

[/size]
You are mistaken.


The APA has never advocated this practice.


So which laureate are you talking about?


Sometimes comas too.


Although EST is still rarely used, its effects are better understood.

[size=4]

Would you rather trust and believe people who are educated and practicing medicine by a code of ethics, or people who are seeing angels and the devil and believe they're talking directly to God?

I know someone who never showed signs of this illness until AFTER recieving "treatment" using transcranial magnetic stimulation (modern version of electroshock? not sure). I dont believe all these psychiatrists actually live by a code of ethics. They see humans as subjects for their experiments, all they have to do is label you with a psychiatric disorder and your rights go out the window. There are many documented cases of this type of malpractice, you can research it if you want. I realize what I just said is hearsay, but whatever, just my 2 cents. Not all psychiatrists of course, I just personally dont see psychology as a totally solid science, yet the power people in this field are given is immense and can lead to plenty of abuse and malpractice.

Edited by Glorfindel, 12 April 2013 - 10:07 PM.


#23    notforgotten

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 10:38 PM

View Postscowl, on 12 April 2013 - 09:43 PM, said:

You don't know anything about Nobel Prizes, pal.

You're talking about a Nobel Prize that was won jabbing an ice pick into a person brain as treatment for schizophrenia. This ice pick surgery killed many people and cured none. The doctors that performed such lethal surgery were murderers. It's not necessary for me to no anything about Nobel Prizes.



And where is this belief documented? Many doctors in mental health are dedicated Christians and Jews.

Everyone knows that schizophrenia is labeled as a chemical imbalance in the brain The fact that some doctors are Christians and Jews is insignificant. They all can be misled, including a priest.

[/size]

These people are not on disability. They have regular jobs, some in highly technical fields. I don't think they'd appreciate you calling them liars and accusing them of cheating the government for checks they aren't receiving.

This is irrelevant. Many are on disability. And no one is cheating the government out of any checks. And besides, it's the doctors that lie more than their patients.



Schizophrenics cannot be forced to take medication unless they are institutionalized.

Yes, but they can still be forced, just as they forced frontal lobotomies and excessive electric shock on people.



Maybe you don't but in my experience with working with chronic schizophrenics most do take their medication. They understand their condition and appreciate what medical science has done for them.

Fat chance!





#24    notforgotten

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 10:39 PM

View PostSpiritWriter, on 12 April 2013 - 09:53 PM, said:

Thank you for opening this can of worms notforgotten. I am with you on this ;)
Thank you SpiritWriter.


#25    Ashotep

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 11:00 PM

The brain is very complicated and its the part of the body that is hardest to treat for mental or physical diseases.  While in the beginning care for the mentally ill wasn't great but neither was early surgery attempts.  Both have improved drastically.


#26    SpiritWriter

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 11:19 PM

Each case is different and the spiritual aspect should not be ignored, this is a very key factor imo for most if not all.. also patients do need more respect, to be listened to and have decision making capabilities in thier treatment. Many psychotherapists really do treat patients like guinea pigs because they dont know what thier doing, they are trying to get famous by using a certain standard but there is no standard and they are ruining so many lives permenantly. They are trying to control the mind with chemicals instead of addressing the mind in its natural state. Sometimes a human goes through an evolution, this is a natural process that should be embraced and not shunned, after the process there is a healthy or even an advanced mind.. im not saying this is true in all cases, perhaps some get stuck at a negative stage inevitably, and sometimes medicine is a great option, but its true they have a long way to go in discovering how to deal with this. Rejection of the spiritual makes a person more crazy in some cases.... we are spirit... and connected to the spirit, we're not going to be able to deny that forever.

We live in an insane world.... lets not forget that part...

Edited by SpiritWriter, 12 April 2013 - 11:30 PM.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#27    notforgotten

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 11:22 PM

Yet there is still the issue of millions of witnesses to God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, angels, saints, as well as demons and evil spirits. Their testimonies are true and for thousands of years people knew this. Over the last 100 years the modern day psychiatrist has squashed the testimonies of these lowly witnesses with their pompous lie that it is only a chemical imbalance and is all in their minds.


#28    SpiritWriter

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 11:31 PM

View Postnotforgotten, on 12 April 2013 - 11:22 PM, said:

Yet there is still the issue of millions of witnesses to God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, angels, saints, as well as demons and evil spirits. Their testimonies are true and for thousands of years people knew this. Over the last 100 years the modern day psychiatrist has squashed the testimonies of these lowly witnesses with their pompous lie that it is only a chemical imbalance and is all in their minds.

And convinced the world of this! Its truly terrible.

The letter kills but The Spirit gives life. 2 Corinthians 3:6

Non-ambiguity and non-contradiction are one sided and thus unsuited to express the incomprehensible. -Jung

#29    Beany

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 02:41 AM

My mother was a paranoic schizophrenic pretty much all of her adult life. She was very spiritual, Christianity being her thing, but she was also bat nut crazy, as well.   I understand religious obsession is pretty common with schizophrenics; my mom talked with Jesus quite often, and also spent a lot of time trying to elude the communists who she believed were trying to assassinate her. It was all real to her. I'm happy to share my personal experiences & outlook if anyone is interested in first-hand, long term, intimate knowledge of the disease. To make a blanket statement that the visual & aural phenomena are "real" is to misunderstand a very complicated medical condition and serves no one, least of all those afflicted with the disease.


#30    charmcph

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Posted 13 April 2013 - 03:11 AM

I want to agree on a few things here .... "Doctor's" would rather give drugs to a person with Schizo or any mental illness, for endangerment of themself or others. I know that's not the answer for any illness! But speaking from first hand experience with my mom.... I'm glad the drugs at least helped her NOT hurt herself or anyone... anymore. As for the electric shock treatments they did on my mom..... I wouldn't wish that on anyone. She was never the same when they did that!

And NO my mom didn't have rights.......she couldn't tell them no... a doctor had made it that she was not capable of her own decisions. So that being said....

Untill a "Doctor" can walk in a mental patients mind and experience it themselfs?  They shouldn't just give it a name! Or say their "crazy" I hate that word!!

I sometimes wonder why my mom is the way she is...what made her that way .. did she just shut off in her mind because what ever was hurting her ..she couldn't handle it? Or is it her way of dealing with it?

I have journals of stories my mom would tell me...about god, angels, spirits, bad people, lost souls...she would even meet famous people... places she had visited..etc. She believes what she see and tells.

She's had mental illness even before I was born...I'm child number 6

~Char~




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