95 replies to this topic

[Seeker79]

Understandably. So we cannot have a conversation because I'm a liar or insane, conversation is pointless because I'm going to lie or just talk about my dellusions.  It's funny how people who say they base their world view off of observable facts jump to so many conclusions.

Trully a faith. Reminds me of what the church did sceintists   Back in history.

[Seeker79]

Oh, in gravity. There are lots of theories. No one has prooved anything. It's there. That's all we know. Is it just curvature of space, gravitrons, a strong force in another dimention that just leaks into our three dimentions. Not all sceintists are completely sold on it just being space that's curved, then you have to start defining what space is made up of to curve and that is another theoritical can of worms. We know what gravity does but findinig out what it is is one if the holly Grails of science. I tend to agree with Einstein. But that's me.

Edited by Seeker79, 18 October 2010 - 09:09 PM.

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

Seeker79, on 18 October 2010 - 08:56 PM, said:

Understandably. So we cannot have a conversation because I'm a liar or insane, conversation is pointless because I'm going to lie or just talk about my dellusions.  It's funny how people who say they base their world view off of observable facts jump to so many conclusions.

Trully a faith. Reminds me of what the church did sceintists   Back in history.

Didn't say that, but why someone wouldnt want to prove their ablitites is beyond me. I can't understand it since it would change the world as we know it. There is always an excuse for why the person can't do it.

[Seeker79]

Seeker79, on 18 October 2010 - 09:06 PM, said:

Oh, in gravity. There are lots of theories. No one has prooved anything. It's there. That's all we know. Is it just curvature of space, gravitrons, a strong force in another dimention that just leaks into our three dimentions. Not all sceintists are completely sold on it just being space that's curved, then you have to start defining what space is made up of to curve and that is another theoritical can of worms. We know what gravity does but findinig out what it is is one if the holly Grails of science. I tend to agree with Einstein. But that's me.

Oh, and I don't have to test these theories there are more than one that are perfectly logical, by respected scientists.  That's all I need to doubt their explanation, after all I have faith that they know more about it than I do. You on the other hand seem to have chosen one over the other, fine but don't call a paper a fact when others in the field disagree. The fact is that gravity is there the rest is theory, and several at that. What about you mulder. You seem to have faith that they got it right and know exactly how and why gravity works, I understand your trust in the scientists I share alot of it. But trust is faith. Unless you wrote the paper performed the experiment and did the math, you are engaging in faith in the sceintist.

Who was that bio guy, that was revolutionizing the bio world with paper after paper after paper until someone figured out he was a fraud? Anyone know? I saw the documentary.

[Seeker79]

The Skeptic Eric Raven, on 18 October 2010 - 09:13 PM, said:

Didn't say that, but why someone wouldnt want to prove their ablitites is beyond me. I can't understand it since it would change the world as we know it. There is always an excuse for why the person can't do it.

You want experiments and proof but most sceptics can only intrpret the data from a reductionist point of view, just like fundamentalist christians can only inturpret data from a creationists point of view. There are many experiments that point to the idea that conciousness is a fundamental part of the universe, but it's ignored and downplayed because of it's implications. I once read an argument if why we have the delayed choice effect with the double slit expermint that involved subatomic particles send compression waves back in time to bounce off other time traveling compression waves to evenchaully give rise to shroders equations. Wild theories just to avoid the more simple possibility.

Whtch this.

[Seeker79]

And yes ironically I'm a sceptic aswell just an open one. There are a lot of frauds out there. It's that way with nearly everything. They can't proove things because they are not real. Gifted people can only receive information in their minds. There is the problem. The mind is subjective. Infact I beleive the nature of reality is subjective rather than objective. This makes perfect sense if the universe is built on conciousness. Robert munroe in an astrial travel experiment conducted by sceientists was supposed to pick out a string of numbers. He could not do it. But he was able to know that one of the experimenters left the observation room when she was not supposed to. He was also knew that it was a  man she met out in the hallway and a couple of other details. Hey was able to find concepts and relationships not numbers and objective information. That's because he was not witnessing things with his eyes. For the most part your eyes are objective. He was wittnessing things with is soul or mind. The amount of information was significant.

Edited by Seeker79, 18 October 2010 - 10:01 PM.

[Seeker79]

Nothing will change the world as we know it. Great numbers of people already beleive and great numbers of them will never beleive No matter how objective confirming data is. 90% of the world already beleives some sort of higher power. The rest are agnostics and atheists. Atheist being the least reasonable position of them all. Proof might grab some of the agnostics and a few atheists, but I have a feeing the atheists would trump on with all kinds of wild theories. Atheism is a faith that there is nothing but reductionist ideas, and ultimatley reduction will lead to some theory of everything, that will explain all of creation. They are incapable of taking into account data that goes against their world view much like a fundamentalist. If there is some sort of data the only state of mind they have is to continue to reduce it. It does not matter what the data is. If I walk up to a crippled boy and heal him ( not saying I can) an atheist will say yeah right, show me his medical papers let me talk to his doctor. After doing so and finding everything in order, he will still beleive it's some sort of hoax.  He will not be able to escape the idea. He will ask the healer to do again and the healer being enlightened has no need whatsoever to proove anything to the sceptic and will refuse experimentation. The healer knows the sceptic will come around some day l.. if not now then upon his death, tritfully using such power is against the nature of the gift.  In adition, if you are forced to beleive through some sort of proof, you don't really have an experience with the truth. You can be lied to, many have and will. Only if the sceptic was the boy and lived throuh the personal experience will he be changed.   Personal experience is the only way to experience the spirit. It is the only way. You want proof? Learn to spiritwalk and you will have your proof. If the truth is that important to you then you have to explore this experience, then make the decision for yourself and your own observations instead of relying on others.

Edited by Seeker79, 18 October 2010 - 10:26 PM.

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

Seeker79, on 18 October 2010 - 10:11 PM, said:

Nothing will change the world as we know it. Great numbers of people already beleive and great numbers of them will never beleive No matter how objective confirming data is. 90% of the world already beleives some sort of higher power. The rest are agnostics and atheists. Atheist being the least reasonable position of them all. Proof might grab some of the agnostics and a few atheists, but I have a feeing the atheists would trump on with all kinds of wild theories. Atheism is a faith that there is nothing but reductionist ideas, and ultimatley reduction will lead to some theory of everything, that will explain all of creation. They are incapable of taking into account data that goes against their world view much like a fundamentalist. If there is some sort of data the only state of mind they have is to continue to reduce it. It does not matter what the data is. If I walk up to a crippled boy and heal him ( not saying I can) an atheist will say yeah right, show me his medical papers let me talk to his doctor. After doing so and finding everything in order, he will still beleive it's some sort of hoax.  He will not be able to escape the idea. He will ask the healer to do again and the healer being enlightened has no need whatsoever to proove anything to the sceptic and will refuse experimentation. The healer knows the sceptic will come around some day l.. if not now then upon his death, tritfully using such power is against the nature of the gift.  In adition, if you are forced to beleive through some sort of proof, you don't really have an experience with the truth. You can be lied to, many have and will. Only if the sceptic was the boy and lived throuh the personal experience will he be changed.   Personal experience is the only way to experience the spirit. It is the only way. You want proof? Learn to spiritwalk and you will have your proof. If the truth is that important to you then you have to explore this experience, then make the decision for yourself and your own observations instead of relying on others.

Sounds like the same old, "blah, blah". Once again, more excuses why it cant be proved.

[Seeker79]

The Skeptic Eric Raven, on 19 October 2010 - 03:24 PM, said:

Sounds like the same old, "blah, blah". Once again, more excuses why it cant be proved.

Sounds like to the old unwillingness to try for your self. If proof is rpeatable results there is plenty of it. Shamanic Journies, and other experiences are well documented and have been going on and used as tools for all of human history. Good ole eric comes along and says well i dont have the disceplin to experience these things so it must not be real.

Well I cant afford the materials, and time, to perform a double slit experimnet to experince wave particle duality for myself either.....im just as guilty. But i dont write it off, and say its not real because I cant do it. thats What you have done. Furthermore. a blind person cannot experience many things a seeing person can, but they usually dont say its fake..

Unwillingness to learn is the problem Eric, you have seen so many fakes, and have been so thouroly endoctrinated into reductionist thinking, you have developed faith in your sceptisim, and have lost true objectivity. Spend several years learning to meditate and open yourself a bit and i promise you will have your proof.

[Agent. Mulder]

Seeker79, on 18 October 2010 - 08:33 PM, said:

I'll have three soon, and I already knew you were younger than me. I was exactly like you once. That's why  I know it will be you who will do the growing. Your actually on the right path I think, because you have to start with questions. The problem that so many people have is that they stop asking and get stuck. Thank the spirits that that did not happen to me. I live a very full physical and spiritual life now. Al be it it was tumultuouse at first. I'm maried to a beautiful philapina woman, two increadble little boys, another on it's way. I own my business that's lucrative enough, I work maby 8 hours a week while my employees handle the rest. I can astrial travel  and talk with spirits. They have taught me so manythings small and big. I'm educated degrees in economics, finance, with minors in libral arts and acounting. My business makes me a leader in my community and it's something iv been doing since a very young age. And im just beginning to grow up. I teach young ones to never except things at face value and trust themselves above all others. Getting caught up in social institutions is what enslaves people.... Including science and religion. Your a smart guy mulder but you have the Ferver of a fundamentalist. You refuse to think bigger than what has been shown to you, and you Should know better.

Dont pretend youre like me, or that you know me.
Also, being spiritual has nothing to do with this.
Religion enslaves, science sets people free. If it wasnt for science, wed All still be believing in made up deitiesto try and explain the world around us. Science broke those boundaries.
Im no fundementalist.

Seeker79, on 18 October 2010 - 08:33 PM, said:

Now you have read my posts, you know a little about me, tell me you beleive I'm full of crap, and I'll understand you better, tell me you think I'm insane or at least highly imaginative and will understand you better. If you think those things, then arguing is pointless because your either arguing with a liar or a mad man. Now with that said my experiences are very real, and many others have similar ones. You don't, so you are at a disadvantage. You only trust the facts..... Great so do I. It is a fact for me to have an experience where I fly around with spirits and learn things. It's my fact and others have the same thing, so it's not just me. You have a faith that it has to fit within the normal parameters of currently observed science or it can't possibly be real yet admit that you or science does not have all the answers ( i would say very few at that ). How can you possibly argue so ferverantly and suggest I shouldn't teach others about what I know, when you know for a fact that science cannot explain so much. Your a walking condridiction my friend. I'm sorry not an insult, just an observation.

I dont think youre full of it. I think you need to do more reading.
I have no faith in science, or deities. As one cannt believe in science. We know science doesnt have all the answers, because theyre are so many, and many of which doesnt have ANYTHING to do with science. So, it has no answer. That lame argument is the same as saying "well, why accept the government, as they dont have the answer to whether or not there is a god". It doesnt matter.
Im not contradiction, the only insults your dishing out are towards yourself, with your lack of understand. Sorry Seeker. But thats it man.

[Seeker79]

Agent. Mulder, on 19 October 2010 - 04:58 PM, said:

Dont pretend youre like me, or that you know me.
Also, being spiritual has nothing to do with this.
Religion enslaves, science sets people free. If it wasnt for science, wed All still be believing in made up deitiesto try and explain the world around us. Science broke those boundaries.
Im no fundementalist.



I dont think youre full of it. I think you need to do more reading.
I have no faith in science, or deities. As one cannt believe in science. We know science doesnt have all the answers, because theyre are so many, and many of which doesnt have ANYTHING to do with science. So, it has no answer. That lame argument is the same as saying "well, why accept the government, as they dont have the answer to whether or not there is a god". It doesnt matter.
Im not contradiction, the only insults your dishing out are towards yourself, with your lack of understand. Sorry Seeker. But thats it man.

Mulder, thanks brother, we have common groung after all.

"We know science doesnt have all the answers, because theyre are so many, and many of which doesnt have ANYTHING to do with science."

Our exchanges are important my friend. Others whatch and learn.

Things were not so bad before agriculture, architechture, sceince, and religion. 15,000 years ago we lived in harmony with our environmnets. We could feed ourselves, we did not rely on governmnets, we were free to roam and live as we chose, we did not commit mass murder, no nuclear weapons, no guns, good bow and arrows take a tremendous amount of time and energy to make, no loosing valuable life time to television and video games, sexual expression was not stiffled, we did not work our entire lives for only two weeks of vacation a year, we spent many hours training our children, and spending time with them, we did not ship our kids off every morning to be industrilized, there was no such thing as rich or poor even the concept would not have been understood. We did not poison the earth and its creatures, and we understood our place in the world was to be apart of it not master it. There was no famine, because we did not rely on crops, there were no pandemics and mass disease, because everyone interacted in small bands of people and disease vectors were not strong. There was no large scale war and death, just a few scirmishes here and there. Most people relized that violence did not sereve them.

It remains to be seen if science has had a positive influance on mankind or not. If we destroy ourselves, then obviously it did not. If we poison the earth so bad we cannot live, then it did not. If we create societies that control and maniplate people, then it did not. If create economies that keep us enslaved to it, by forcing us to work our entire lives just to eat and have a place to sleep, then it did not.

The benefits of sceince, may end up being an illusion or a trade off that wasnt worth it. If a solor emp blast hits us tomorrow western civilization will know exactly what im talking about. See you mulder its been fun.

[Agent. Mulder]

Seeker79, on 19 October 2010 - 05:48 PM, said:

Mulder, thanks brother, we have common groung after all.
"We know science doesnt have all the answers, because theyre are so many, and many of which doesnt have ANYTHING to do with science."
Our exchanges are important my friend. Others whatch and learn.

No we dont.

Seeker79, on 19 October 2010 - 05:48 PM, said:

Things were not so bad before agriculture, architechture, sceince, and religion. 15,000 years ago we lived in harmony with our environmnets. We could feed ourselves, we did not rely on governmnets, we were free to roam and live as we chose, we did not commit mass murder, no nuclear weapons, no guns, good bow and arrows take a tremendous amount of time and energy to make, no loosing valuable life time to television and video games, sexual expression was not stiffled, we did not work our entire lives for only two weeks of vacation a year, we spent many hours training our children, and spending time with them, we did not ship our kids off every morning to be industrilized, there was no such thing as rich or poor even the concept would not have been understood. We did not poison the earth and its creatures, and we understood our place in the world was to be apart of it not master it. There was no famine, because we did not rely on crops, there were no pandemics and mass disease, because everyone interacted in small bands of people and disease vectors were not strong. There was no large scale war and death, just a few scirmishes here and there. Most people relized that violence did not sereve them.

Interesting ideas of what it was like.
But, fail to see how thats relevant.

Seeker79, on 19 October 2010 - 05:48 PM, said:

It remains to be seen if science has had a positive influance on mankind or not. If we destroy ourselves, then obviously it did not. If we poison the earth so bad we cannot live, then it did not. If we create societies that control and maniplate people, then it did not. If create economies that keep us enslaved to it, by forcing us to work our entire lives just to eat and have a place to sleep, then it did not.

No. It just remains to be seen why people dont accept science, and its benefits to mankind.
Humans destroying themselves doesnt have to do with science. A nuke doesnt drop itself.
You can try to warp ideas to make it look bad as much as you want.

Seeker79, on 19 October 2010 - 05:48 PM, said:

The benefits of sceince, may end up being an illusion or a trade off that wasnt worth it. If a solor emp blast hits us tomorrow western civilization will know exactly what im talking about. See you mulder its been fun.

Huh?
Anyways, weve been hit by solar activity a lot.

[Akatsuki-pein]

you can't really inherit them because all human beings have these "gifts".  words like "gifts" and "abilities" only make people believe certain people are chosen and others are not. What one person can do, another can, we are all human. just depends on your will and awareness.

[Agent. Mulder]

Akatsuki-pein, on 24 October 2010 - 08:15 PM, said:

you can't really inherit them because all human beings have these "gifts".  words like "gifts" and "abilities" only make people believe certain people are chosen and others are not. What one person can do, another can, we are all human. just depends on your will and awareness.

You can will yourself an ability?

[JGirl]

Shaolin Punk, on 12 October 2010 - 06:08 PM, said:

Lol it's in the part that 'scientists' call 'junk' dna, in amongst the pointless things that they tell us not to worry about because they are scared to say that they haven't got a clue.

and you are privvy to what this so called junk dna contains? how is that exactly?