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About nothing

nothing nothingness

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#31    CrimsonKing

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 04:56 PM

View PostLord Vetinari, on 27 March 2013 - 08:29 AM, said:

So does that mean that nothing turned up, as in there was no thing that turned up, or something did turn up, but that something that turned up was nothing? :unsure2:

:lol:  Confusing conversation

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#32    FlyingAngel

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:05 PM

For the duality theory to be valid, "nothing" has to exist for a "thing" to exist. Otherwise there would be no reference of "thing".


#33    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:29 PM

View PostFlyingAngel, on 27 March 2013 - 08:05 PM, said:

For the duality theory to be valid, "nothing" has to exist for a "thing" to exist. Otherwise there would be no reference of "thing".
  I suppose it's rather like good and Evil.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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#34    lightly

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 09:23 PM

.. or light and dark?   Trouble is.. there is no dark.    Just as there is no  nothing.

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#35    Potassium

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 12:00 AM

Depends on what you'd classify as 'nothing'.
In quantum physics we denote absolute vacuum as nothing.
Though vacuum contains no matter and energy, transitions between nothing and something, i.e. the amount of energy required to transform potential/probable existence into actual existence, does exist. The reason the given space would appear as nothing to us is due to the freakishly small scale of fluctuations/transitions and of course due to the fact they could cancel each other out (just like destructive wave interference). So is 'nothing' really nothing? Beats me.

Personally, I accept a concept of the absence of consciousness as complete nothingness. Meaning, if I died, my main processor, the brain, would cease to exist. My whole perception of reality and even the ability to think would vanish. Nothing.


#36    StarMountainKid

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Posted 01 April 2013 - 11:43 PM

-

Potassium said:

Personally, I accept a concept of the absence of consciousness as complete nothingness.

Yes, before I was born is a good example of nothing. Also, I had an operation once and under the anesthetic was another nothing. If the universe itself has no consciousness, is this another nothing?

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#37    Frank Merton

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 04:06 AM

1. One side of me says that nothing is a contradiction in terms and therefore an illogicality that cannot exist.

2. Another side says maybe the problem is with the word "exist."  Saying that nothing can or cannot exist is meaningless

3. It also occurs to me that there could never have been a time when there was nothing, since time is something.

4. But that doesn't necessarily imply that time could not have had a beginning; if it did, that would be the beginning of something but "before" the beginning of time is meaningless.


#38    Potassium

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 05:15 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 02 April 2013 - 04:06 AM, said:

1. One side of me says that nothing is a contradiction in terms and therefore an illogicality that cannot exist.
2. Another side says maybe the problem is with the word "exist."  Saying that nothing can or cannot exist is meaningless

Let's try defining 'nothing'.
If 'nothing' is the absence of anything but 'nothing', it's 'nothing'. So we have a loop here.

If we say that 'nothing' is the opposite of 'anything', then it's the absence of the opposite of anything but 'nothing' (the absence of nothing but nothing). Quite silly.


I think, I see what you meant by contradiction.


#39    JC2

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 11:48 AM

Within the philosophical notion of nothing I would suggest that as we hold our universe as the “thing” the end point you might say, then the middle is the “some”, the beginning has to consist of duality/polarity as every “thing” is composed of duality/polarity before the beginning we have nothing and before that nothing and so we enter the infinite, nothing for me represents the infinite?!?

so in trying to answer such a question can I exist within an “infinite” has to then be answered, in that I then have to acknowledge that nothing has to have meaning then is that meaning going to enable me to then understand the question?

Do I “need” it or not?

the truth comes with a straight jacket, one size fits all....

#40    FlyingAngel

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 11:58 AM

Saying that "nothing" can't exist is the same as saying the universe has been always there, conclude that the universe isn't created from nothingness.

Do you ever wonder why any question you ask can lead to the origin of the universe or God?

Edited by FlyingAngel, 02 April 2013 - 11:59 AM.


#41    Frank Merton

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 12:05 PM

I haven't experienced that; the questions I ask don't lead to God at all.  Nothingness seems to me the very antithesis of God anyway.  I think we can say that there has always been something, but we don't know that "always" is infinite; in fact it seems logically not possible.


#42    JC2

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Posted 02 April 2013 - 01:54 PM

View PostFlyingAngel, on 02 April 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

Saying that "nothing" can't exist is the same as saying the universe has been always there, conclude that the universe isn't created from nothingness.

Do you ever wonder why any question you ask can lead to the origin of the universe or God?


The reason why any question you ask always leads to either god or the start of the universe is due to the fact that the moment you ask the first question you start a exponential awakening to every other question. Doesn't matter where you start within the universe everything leads you back to the beginning as you will by design alone always look for the narrative, the common denominator, the reason why.

It then depends on how far your own personal design has already taken you on that quest as to how you answer these questions, any one doing such a journey will ultimately reach the point of understanding perfection but that is a whole new thread.

the truth comes with a straight jacket, one size fits all....

#43    lightly

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 11:49 AM

View PostPotassium, on 01 April 2013 - 12:00 AM, said:

Depends on what you'd classify as 'nothing'.
In quantum physics we denote absolute vacuum as nothing.
Though vacuum contains no matter and energy, transitions between nothing and something, i.e. the amount of energy required to transform potential/probable existence into actual existence, does exist. The reason the given space would appear as nothing to us is due to the freakishly small scale of fluctuations/transitions and of course due to the fact they could cancel each other out (just like destructive wave interference). So is 'nothing' really nothing? Beats me.

Personally, I accept a concept of the absence of consciousness as complete nothingness. Meaning, if I died, my main processor, the brain, would cease to exist. My whole perception of reality and even the ability to think would vanish. Nothing.

   ^   ...  sounds like the definition of Vacuum needs to be updated?   At one time it was thought to contain truly Nothing?

   (unless you believe in a GOD)   .. the universe formed in the absence of consciousness?

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#44    Frank Merton

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Posted 04 April 2013 - 12:01 PM

Apres moi, nothing.  The clearest possible statement of solipsism.


#45    manbearpigg

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Posted 08 April 2013 - 11:04 PM

Although we humans perceive time in a linear fashion, a being of a higher dimension or just sheer largeness in size would perceive our time an an all-encompassing dot. to a larger (possibly higher dimensional) being, the space between one star to another would be NOTHING as it would not be able to grasp all the tiny interactions that happen between that space. Us HUMANS would be NOTHING to it since we could not change, influence, contact, that being in any way that is significant enough.
THUS while using Einstein's theory of everything, we are relatively nothing to that much larger being.
Let us bring it down to our size, where we are the amazingly large creatures to a microscopic society on the molecular levels. Those beings in our reality "does not exist" and is thus NOTHING to us.

mathematically, all things get smaller without disappearing (being nothing), if we put it in terms of lego blocks, the nothing are just tiny clear blocks that no one can see but is necessary for the sustainability of the WHOLE lego building.

IDK just my thoughts.





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