Wright Brothers were NOT first to fly a plane

[Big Bad Voodoo]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2327286/The-Wright-Brothers-NOT-fly-plane--German-pilot-beat-years-earlier-flying-car-claims-leading-aviation-journal.html

Gustave Whitehead is believed to have flown his Condor plane in August 1901 - more than two years before the Wright Brothers' infamous flight

[questionmark]

still wrong, both Hiram Maxim (1894, 250 yards) and Clement Ader (1896 and 1897, 300 and ~1000 yards) managed to lift off a contraption before Weisskopf. They both just had a problem with landing their contraptions in one piece.

Edited May 22, 2013 by questionmark

[SHaYap]

Flying machines ... I might add ... no one ever flew .... at least no men or women ever flew .. not even now ....

Whereas ... insects and birds been flying for millions of years if I'm not mistaken ....

[shrooma]

a yorkshireman managed to get there 50yrs before the lot of 'em!

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http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Cayley

.

:-)

[SHaYap]

yorkshire puddings for the win !!

dang daily mail reporters don't know the wiki enough methinks ....

[questionmark]

a yorkshireman managed to get there 50yrs before the lot of 'em!

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http://en.m.wikipedi...i/George_Cayley

.

:-)

Not quite, while Cayley has certainly established the foundations for aerodynamics, except for the coachman legend there is no evidence that he ever built anything with an engine... or without it for the case. There were several models build but nothing the size a man could sit in. The honor of being the first to fly a glider pulled by a horse (and where there is ample evidence to substantiate it) goes to Percy Sinclair Pilcher, of Stanford Park, England... but that was in 1899.

[shrooma]

I got his tale from a book called ''curing hiccups with small fires~a miscellany of great british eccentrics''

it's a great book if you want to learn about the character of us brits, and george cayley WAS a bit of an oddball.....

:-)

[shrooma]

Not quite, while Cayley has certainly established the foundations for aerodynamics, except for the coachman legend there is no evidence that he ever built anything with an engine... or without it for the case.

.

no-one mentioned having an engine as being a pre-requisite for the topic, just 'being the first to fly'

and the coachman's statement of 'i'll be buggered if i'm doing THAT again' would certainly mean that it was fact and not 'legend'.....

[pallidin]

Yeah, I think there is mounting evidence that the Wright brothers were not the first.

However, I would like to suggest that crashing a plane during landing doesn't seem(to me) to qualify as a "successful" flight, and thus should be stricken from consideration as a "first flight". Rather, those types of developmental flights could be considered "test flights"

[The_Spartan]

My only question to L is

HOW THE HECK IS THIS ANCIENT MYSYERY-ISH OR ALTERNATIVE HISTORY-ISH?????

sorry i am drunk. when i am drunk i am brutally straight forward!!!

[shrooma]

sorry i am drunk. when i am drunk i am brutally straight forward!!!

.

drunk?

on a wednesday?!

lucky b******!!

:-)

[pallidin]

My only question to L is

HOW THE HECK IS THIS ANCIENT MYSYERY-ISH OR ALTERNATIVE HISTORY-ISH?????

sorry i am drunk. when i am drunk i am brutally straight forward!!!

I think, after a certain time of day, I might installI a breathalyzer on my computer during forum response.

[cormac mac airt]

My only question to L is

HOW THE HECK IS THIS ANCIENT MYSYERY-ISH OR ALTERNATIVE HISTORY-ISH?????

sorry i am drunk. when i am drunk i am brutally straight forward!!!

It's older than "the L".

cormac

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Well I think that cormac already gave explaination.

No offence taken Spartan.

[questionmark]

.

no-one mentioned having an engine as being a pre-requisite for the topic, just 'being the first to fly'

and the coachman's statement of 'i'll be buggered if i'm doing THAT again' would certainly mean that it was fact and not 'legend'.....

Then the Mongolfier brothers beat them all...

Edited May 23, 2013 by questionmark

[lightly]

.. and Ford didn't 'invent' the car, Marconi the radio, or Edison the light bulb... Sometimes we are taught ALTERNATIVE HISTORY.

[Abramelin]

Then the Mongolfier brothers beat them all...

In that case even the ancient Chinese with their man-lifting kites would beat them all.

[questionmark]

In that case even the ancient Chinese with their man-lifting kites would beat them all.

True, almost forgot about them.

[Big Bad Voodoo]

Do we have consensus who fly first?

[SHaYap]

bees ... bees were the first

[MiskatonicGrad]

Do we have consensus who fly first?

From what I'm gathering the definition of flight is I would say the first dumba** to fall out of a tree.

[SHaYap]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CEEPaYD5KZE

[questionmark]

Do we have consensus who fly first?

Doubtfully, as we only know who did it by eyewitness accounts and historical record, there might have been many more before. As far as the records we have, flying without a rope connecting the person to the ground (i.e. kites) or by free balloon it would be the Austrian Johann Degen in 1809, after reading George Cayley's publication in Nature about aerodynamics he built various contraption and jumped from a platform raised by a balloon, he gave up in 1812 after not being able to figure out a method to raise but only managed to glide to the ground.

Edited May 24, 2013 by questionmark

[danielost]

still wrong, both Hiram Maxim (1894, 250 yards) and Clement Ader (1896 and 1897, 300 and ~1000 yards) managed to lift off a contraption before Weisskopf. They both just had a problem with landing their contraptions in one piece.

still wrong, both Hiram Maxim (1894, 250 yards) and Clement Ader (1896 and 1897, 300 and ~1000 yards) managed to lift off a contraption before Weisskopf. They both just had a problem with landing their contraptions in one piece.

You have to land safely or it doesn't count. The right brothers were given a model airplanewhen they were kids. I am sure that it was a glider.

Mr. Bell only won the race for the phone by a couple of hours.

Edited May 24, 2013 by danielost

[RabidCat]

Strikes me that the Wright bros. were (and always have been) described as the first powered heavier than air controlled flight... The others that obviously flew prior to the Wrights had little concept of how to control a machine in the air. The Wrights were actually able to turn the plane in a desired direction.

However, since this alternative history, isn't it an established fact that artifacts from both Egypt and Central/South America indicated that both those civilizations had at least the rudiments of heavier than air flight? I recall an aeronautical engineer who saw the artifacts, one Smithsonian - Egypt, the other in the Americas in a museum, measured and recorded all data from both, including the airfoil, and built models of both. They were subsequently deemed airworthy after their respective flights. The main clue to the concept that these devices were not bird replicas is that the tail section has both vertical and horizontal stabilizers. The version from C.A./S.A. also has what appears to be jet intakes and exhausts. I can find pictures of one or the other (maybe both) if anyone is interested.

Perhaps those should be registered as first powered and controlled flight.