Visual Reorientation Illusions (VRIs)

[Hugh]

Hi all, I'm new to the forum. I've always been interested in unexplained mysteries.

There is a phenomenon that I have experienced since I was a child, and I'm wondering if anyone else on the forum has experienced it too. It's called a Visual Reorientation Illusion, or VRI.

What happens is you get an instant 90 or 180 degree flip of your directional bearings, and you end up seeing your same surroundings, but from another direction. It may happen when you come up from an underground subway, and see the buildings around you differently than you normally do, then a visual flip happens, and you say, "Okay, now I know where I am!" The buildings, and your orientational sense have switched back to how you normally see them.

One thing I've wondered about though is, could this possibly be evidence of a higher dimension of space? If one can see the same surroundings, but from a different direction, could it be that there is another direction of space available to look from?

What I've found myself, and with other people that I've talked to about this, is that there are four possible ways to do a VRI and flip one's viewpoint around. One can see their surroundings from four different ways.

Once one practices this, it's easier to do. I find it easiest to flip around the view in a movie theater. Usually, when one enters a theater, it is in one of four possible orientations for our bearing sense. All you have to do, is imagine yourself in one of the other theaters which are oriented in a different 90 or 180 degree direction. It may take a while to flip, but you'll know when it does. It's really neat to see everything flip around! I think it shows that there is a higher dimension of space available in order for us to do this.

I've posted this question on another forum, Alkaline's Tetraspace Forum, and there are currently 4 pages of replies there, so if anyone wants to see more links or questions about this they can check this out: http://tetraspace.alkaline.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=401. I've posted some of the more scientific possible explanations of how it may be related to higher dimensions of space on page 4 of that thread.

Thanks for any thoughts about this.

Hugh

[ex infernis]

One proposed idea is that they are connected to a hypothetical spatial fourth dimension. A far more likely explanation is that they are caused by brain malfunctions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_Reorientation_Illusions

well there you go

[Hugh]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_Reorientation_Illusions

well there you go

Hi pyrokinetic.

VRIs can be consciously achieved, so to me, it's less of a "brain malfunction", and more of a possible matter of "choice of viewing direction" in higher dimensional space.

[the rebirth]

i think this has happened to me before...

is this like looking at something familiar from one angle, but thinking that you are at another angle. all of a sudden you're badly confused, then you realize you're at another angle than you thought you were, and then you feel like an idiot?

yes that has happened to me, but i thought i was just stupid... (multiple occasions)

[Hugh]

i think this has happened to me before...

is this like looking at something familiar from one angle, but thinking that you are at another angle. all of a sudden you're badly confused, then you realize you're at another angle than you thought you were, and then you feel like an idiot?

yes that has happened to me, but i thought i was just stupid... (multiple occasions)

Yes, that sounds like the VRI 'the rebirth'.

The VRI does turn around one's bearing sense. Ever hear of someone say that they got "turned around"? It can be disorienting and confusing, but it can also be fun to do once you learn how to control them. I'm curious, have you ever tried to do the flip back to how you just saw it after it happened to you? I remember the first time that I actually consciously willed it to happen, I felt such a sense of power.

Also, have you ever thought about the fact that you have just seen the same thing from another angle? Is it possible that this shows that the other angle of view actually exists? Could there be higher dimensions of ourselves and the space around us to allow this to happen?

I changed my avatar to a 4d hypercube to show a bit of what 4d space looks like. When you think about the VRI flip, does it sound like it is possible to be seeing things from different angles within that type of space, especially if you would have all those different angles of existence yourself?

[manitou]

It has everything to do with navigation inside. You consider your whereabouts and flip your inside map so then you know where you're located.

What I thought you meant was that surroundings can look different when considered again. Like when you reminisce your childhood. How is your house represented in your memories, does it look different? I have those strange experiences sometimes. Like my surroundings are no longer familiar. They look like I've never been there before.

But that's not what you mean, right?

[Hugh]

It has everything to do with navigation inside. You consider your whereabouts and flip your inside map so then you know where you're located.

What I thought you meant was that surroundings can look different when considered again. Like when you reminisce your childhood. How is your house represented in your memories, does it look different? I have those strange experiences sometimes. Like my surroundings are no longer familiar. They look like I've never been there before.

But that's not what you mean, right?

Hi manitou,

Well, partially. The difference in the surroundings with the VRI is primarily one of viewing direction, either 90 or 180 degrees from your familiar one. There is also a sense of unfamiliarity with a certain viewpoint if you've never seen it from that way before.

For example, you may go on a trip as a child away from home, and when you return, your house looks the same externally, but it's unfamiliar in the sense that it is "turned around" in a different direction. The whole neighbourhood (and universe) is "turned around" too.

As you said, you "flip your inside map so then you know where you're located". That involves a VRI, and you end up seeing things from the "normal" way again. It happened to me often as a child, and I was conscious of the fact that there were 4 different possible ways of seeing my home, and each flip was always a 90 or a 180 degree one.

One time I decided after it flipped back to "normal", that I was going to flip it back to the different way that I had just seen it, and it flipped back! It was then that I realized that I had the power to control which direction that I wanted to see my surroundings.

Since then I have talked to others about the VRI, and have found that there are other people who have experimented with it too.

For me, the universe seems to have this other dimension accessible by control of conscious thought. There are different real, physical directions to see my surroundings. If you look at the hypercube in the avatar, you can see how this might be possible. The fact that higher dimensional space is theorized in string theory, for example, makes this even more of a possibility.

This phenomenon is something that most of us have experienced, but there isn't much written about it. I'm hoping that more people do talk about their experiences of it, and how it might possibly be related to higher dimensional space.

[the rebirth]

thats like driving and using a roadmap for navigation. if the roadmap is sideways, you wont be able to find your way. when you talk about coming home from vacation, and your "internal roadmap" is sideways, are you thinking that it "drifted" that way while you were travelling and visiting other places? I think that this may have more to do with navigational tools rather than a "fourth" dimension. how do birds know which way to fly in the winter? then again, it has been proven that they use the earth's magnetic field for that purpose...

[Hugh]

thats like driving and using a roadmap for navigation. if the roadmap is sideways, you wont be able to find your way. when you talk about coming home from vacation, and your "internal roadmap" is sideways, are you thinking that it "drifted" that way while you were travelling and visiting other places? I think that this may have more to do with navigational tools rather than a "fourth" dimension.

It is possible that there is no connection between the VRI and higher dimensional space. We could only be 3 dimensional, and this is the view of most people today.

What I'm wondering though, is how it would be possible in only 3d space to view something from 4 different directions, unless those directions actually exist? When one experiences a VRI, one actually sees the light coming from that object from a different direction. When one learns to control the VRI, one can choose which direction to look at something from.

Aale de Winkel made an interesting point in the "Flaw in Flatland" thread on the Tetraspace forum on Dec. 4, 2003 when he said: "I doubt very much that tetra-vision would be the same as x-ray-vision. Tetronians will not be able to see within a trionian body, they see the lightrays reflecting of a body just in a direction more then we trionians do!"

I think that we are all at least Tetronians, and that the VRI is an indication that we can see "the lightrays reflecting off a body" in more directions than is possible in only 3d space.

Here is a link from Nasa about how common that the VRI is: "almost everyone experiences VRIs occasionaly. They are quite labile, and can be cognitively manipulated." http://neurolab.jsc.nasa.gov/e136spat.htm

Here is another link: http://www.maa.org/editorial/knot/tesseract.html from which comes the following quote: "Travelling in 4D may have a milder effect on a 3D body than turning it inside out. It may only change its orientation."

What I'm thinking is that as we flip our 3d viewpoint around the 4d hyperspace around us, we change our orientational sense as we do that.

I encourage everyone to try to do a VRI in a movie theater the next time they go to see a movie. It's the easiest place to do it in. Here is what danielmoore on the Tetraspace Forum said after experimenting with VRIs: "seeing VRI's is one of the most amazing experiences ive had, everything that you are familiar w/ just swaps, the places are still the same but its like viewing it from an intirely different perspective even though you and all the stuff is in the same place that it normally would be."

It's really a great experience to try, and after one learns to do it at will, it is easier to imagine how it might be higher dimensional related.

[the rebirth]

maybe thats right...

perhaps the fourth dimension has to with time space, and the manipulation of light waves

for instance if you warped timespace, would that affect the light travelling through it?

if so this may be a manipulateable ability of the mind, creating the ability to "see" in 4 dimensions.

p.s. this thread is the best thing since sliced bread it makes you think

[Hugh]

maybe thats right...

perhaps the fourth dimension has to with time space, and the manipulation of light waves

for instance if you warped timespace, would that affect the light travelling through it?

if so this may be a manipulateable ability of the mind, creating the ability to "see" in 4 dimensions.

That's interesting, I never looked at it that way. VRIs are manipulatable by the mind, and one does see light coming from the same object from different directions. I'm wondering though if it has more to do with extra dimensions of space being available for the light waves, than the manipulation of the light waves themselves.

If there are higher dimensions that exist, and we have those higher dimensions ourselves, how would they be envisioned by us? I think it would involve being able to see the things around us from more directions than would be possible with only 3 dimensions.

p.s. this thread is the best thing since sliced bread it makes you think

Hey thanks!

[the rebirth]

i was thinking about this, and i have an interesting idea...

if we can see in three dimensions using two eyes, would it be possible to see in four with three eyes? if you were to use your "mind's eye" as a third point of view, could you possibly see the fourth dimension...?

[Hugh]

i was thinking about this, and i have an interesting idea...

if we can see in three dimensions using two eyes, would it be possible to see in four with three eyes? if you were to use your "mind's eye" as a third point of view, could you possibly see the fourth dimension...?

I've had this thought too. It is very interesting to think of what 4 spatial dimensions would look like, and what we would see from within that space.

Here is how I like to envision the four perpendicular axes. First draw a plus sign, with the horizontal axis being the x axis, and the vertical one being the y axis.

Now, on top of that "+" sign, draw a line from bottom left to top right (7:30 to 1:30 on a clock). This would be the z axis. See it in 3d perspective, with one end coming towards your left side, and going out away from your right side.

Now comes the fun part, trying to envison that 4th axis. Draw a line from bottom right to top left (4:30 to 10:30 on a clock) so that you end up with a "+" sign with an "X" over top of it. Trying to see fully in 4d is quite difficult, but your mind's eye can help to lift that 4th axis up, and spread the others into more 4d space to allow all four to exist at right angles. Mathematically, it is not impossible at all.

The thing to remember is that a 4d being would only see in 3d, and each of those 3 axes would be perpendicular to each other in it's viewpoint. We see our surroundings as a 3d environment.

If a 4d hyperspheric basketball were placed in front of us, we'd only see a 3d boundary of the surface of it. If we were put into a 4d hypercube, we'd only see a 3d boundary cube of it.

What I'm thinking is that with the VRI, one gets to see the boundary of our surroundings from different directions, which would be possible in 4d space.

[Pelican_Eel]

first time i hear about such thing as VRI. impressed I can't imagine how can it happen. You actually "see" from another angle with your eyes?

I like the idea about three eyes. But they should be... around the object too see it in 4D... (I'm zero in mathematics, so I will explain how I understand 4D by drawing)

very soon...

[Hugh]

first time i hear about such thing as VRI. impressed I can't imagine how can it happen. You actually "see" from another angle with your eyes?

I like the idea about three eyes. But they should be... around the object too see it in 4D... (I'm zero in mathematics, so I will explain how I understand 4D by drawing)

very soon...

Hi justejust.

Okay, great!

Here's how I can best describe the VRI experience, to someone who has never experienced it. I'll use the example of movie theaters, because then I can also explain how to attempt the VRI at the same time too.

Picture a movie theater complex that has 4 different theaters. One theater has a screen which you look at in a North direction, another from the East, another from the South, and the last one from the West. So if you were to look at the whole complex, you could see the 4 theaters each had their screen on one of the inside of the four main building walls.

Now, first off, picture yourself sitting in one of the theaters, say the North facing one. Now, get up and move to the South facing theater and have a seat. Do you see how you are now facing a 180 degree opposite direction from the North facing theater?

Now with the VRI, one can sit in the North facing theater, and without moving, flip one's bearings around, so that one sees the same North facing theater, but it's as if you are in the South facing one!

You see the same thing from another direction! Now with a 90 degree flip, you just have to flip your viewpoint around to either the East or West facing theater from the North or South one.

It is such a really, really cool experience, and I wish that everyone could experience it for themselves. One realizes that there is more to ourselves and our universe, than only the dimensions we think we can see. Try it out the next time you are at the theater, and let me know any results. Thanks!

[Pelican_Eel]

[attachmentid=29571] here is my drawing. I know it is a bit funny (look how happy he is because he's seeing a ball in 4D!) Imagine seeing things like that, it would be more than stereo view, it would be a view of full shape! But, first of all, as you can see, it would be limited. It would be only for small objects... Secondly, it is 4D view perhaps, but the object itself is still 3dimentional... isn't it?

Hugh, i still don't understand why is it called VISUAL reorientation illusion then? You ARE in the North theatre and you SEE the North screen, but you FEEL like you are in South theatre? Then it is something wrong with feeling of directions...not with vision... But if you actually SEE the north theatre from another direction, then can you see yourself, people near you and what is behind the screen??

[Hugh]

[attachmentid=29571]But, first of all, as you can see, it would be limited. It would be only for small objects... Secondly, it is 4D view perhaps, but the object itself is still 3dimentional... isn't it?

That's a cool drawing justejust, but I don't think it shows 4d viewing, just a greater field of range of 3d viewing.

Hugh, i still don't understand why is it called VISUAL reorientation illusion then? You ARE in the North theatre and you SEE the North screen, but you FEEL like you are in South theatre? Then it is something wrong with feeling of directions...not with vision... But if you actually SEE the north theatre from another direction, then can you see yourself, people near you and what is behind the screen??

It's the first example you mention that is the VRI.

I don't think that it is a matter of something being wrong in the feeling of directions. Each viewpoint is an equally valid possibility, but the combination of the possibilities shows that those extra directions for the light to travel in, actually may exist.

The VRI is like the necker cube flip, where a 2d drawn cube flips around 180 degrees in your mind, because it can understand 3d space.

I think that actually seeing a VRI is a 3d viewpoint necker cube flip which can happen because we may be 4d ourselves, in actual 4d space.

[Clarty]

Maybe a VRI is a reason why people say "they turned the house upside down" if they tried to find something. Maybe they were looking so hard they DID turn the house upside down?

Okay, my theories suck. VRI has never happened to be, and to be honest I don't really understand what you mean!?

[Hugh]

Maybe a VRI is a reason why people say "they turned the house upside down" if they tried to find something. Maybe they were looking so hard they DID turn the house upside down?

Okay, my theories suck. VRI has never happened to be, and to be honest I don't really understand what you mean!?

Hi Clarty.

I really wish I could explain it better. Do you understand about the movie theater example? You're in the North theater, but you can see it from the East, South or West facing directions if you want to by flipping your viewpoint around. Try it at a theater k?

Lol about the turning the house upside down. But seriously, have you ever heard someone say that they got lost because they got "turned around"? That's what a VRI does to you, or you choose to do with it. Your bearings get flipped around. It's fun when you learn to control it.

[Leonardo]

From what I have been able to garner about VRI's they appear to me to be nothing more than a temporary confusion between expected and perceived direction when sudden visual sense is restored.

By this I mean, for example, you move through a darkened corridor. You are aware of the direction you were travelling when you entered the corridor, but have no frame of reference to intuit the direction you are now travelling in. You enter a lit area and suddenly your brain receives visual signals telling you your new apparent direction. This is compared to your last previously known direction and, if there is a discrepancy, confusion may arise.

I would imagine you can get the same effect if you close your eyes and move around, without touching any object with which to gain any recognition of 'remembered direction'. Upon opening your eyes you would probably suffer the same confusion.

I would also think that people who have a very good innate sense of direction either do not suffer from this confusion or do so very rarely.

Sorry to say I don't think this has any connectivity to a posited 'higher dimension'.

[Hugh]

Hi Leonardo.

There are some very good points you make and I must say that this is the current way that the VRI is viewed by most people, as an experience of confusion.

The thing about it though, is that when one is conscious of it, there is a heightened spatial sense of awareness to it, rather than a lack of it. One understands that everything has flipped around. One knows that they are looking at things from another angle, and once they learn how to do it, are less "confused" by it.

The fact that those other angles are perceived to exist, is to me an indication that they actually do.

[Pelican_Eel]

That's a cool drawing justejust, but I don't think it shows 4d viewing, just a greater field of range of 3d viewing.

Yes, you are right... actually, I have agreed with it from the beginning... because there is no fourth dimension in my drawing. For this reason I actually think no drawing can show 4D.

The conclusion of my drawing is: more eyes don't help you to see more dimentions

About VRI - so it is the FEELING, not a view... it is like when you get lost? well, it has happened to me, when I swear we came from the left street so now must come back to the right, and it turns out that we came from the right... I thought it is bad orientation

[Pelican_Eel]

oh, I see. Leonardo said pretty much the same thing I wanted to say

[Hugh]

About VRI - so it is the FEELING, not a view... it is like when you get lost? well, it has happened to me, when I swear we came from the left street so now must come back to the right, and it turns out that we came from the right... I thought it is bad orientation

This is what most people think of the VRI, and it gets dismissed as something that is "bad", but if you think about why it might possibly happen, it becomes something that might be very interesting.

[Leonardo]

Hi Hugh. Welcome to UM.

I don't want to give the impression I do not believe that higher dimensionality might not exist, that would be a rash statement to make.

However I don't see VRI's as being good evidence for that as they are apparently easily explained with other causes. Has there been any experimentation about VRI's where something akin to MRI scanning has been employed to see what areas of the brain are involved? This could be evidence for one or more of the explanations for the phenomenon.

Edited to add.

The heightened sense of spatial awareness experienced could be the result of mapping the perceived visual picture over the expected. 'Seeing' one image superimposed upon the other inside the mind may give rise to this 'extra-dimensionality' experienced.

Edited November 23, 2006 by Leonardo