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[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


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#10066    Otharus

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 08:58 AM

View PostKnul, on 07 February 2012 - 10:26 PM, said:

Vruchten en genoegens is a biblical expression.
Aha, that means people were already familiar with the expression when it was used in the dutch translation.


#10067    Otharus

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 09:08 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 07 February 2012 - 10:22 PM, said:

Heh, did you even READ my translation?
I created my own.
I didn't use anyone else's.
Well, check what I made of it and you will realize you will find it nowhere else.
Look, Otharus, somehow you appear to be pissed off by my translation for god knows what reason.
No, I just don't think it's any good.

I'm a bit pissed off yes, because I have put a lot of effort in showing that Ottema clearly made an error transliterating (with big consequences), and you just ignored it.

And then you're too proud to admit your mistake, resulting in a lot of timewasting.

If you put the point correctly, you can still translate with "Wralda's humunculus" or whatever you like.

I don't know what was meant with OD. It may have been ambiguous.

I just argued we can better look at the OldNorse and Oldsaxon meanings rather than Latin.


#10068    Otharus

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 09:09 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 07 February 2012 - 10:28 PM, said:

"Ring as hja rip wron krjon hja frchda aend nochta anda drma Wr.aldas"
How could the girls know Wralda's dreams or visions?


#10069    Knul

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 09:14 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 08 February 2012 - 12:11 AM, said:

No I just got up, lol, I'm rearing to go!

It's all good, I'm not on about the red cows, just understanding the dative better, but I think I might be getting it now.

Goodnight.


Here are the red cows again !!!


#10070    Abramelin

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 09:57 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 08 February 2012 - 12:10 AM, said:


I would expect to see trád here: Ne hlap navt to hastich hwand hyr lêid Adela.

                                 TREAD SOFTLY, FOR HERE LIES ADELA

Maybe it doesn't actually say TREAD softly - it looks to me to be more about not being hasty...

Ne hlap navt to hastich hwand hyr lêid Adela

Dutch:
Nie loop niet (= double negative) te haastig want hier leit Adela.

English:
Don't walk too hastily for here lies Adela.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 08 February 2012 - 10:20 AM.


#10071    Abramelin

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 10:40 AM

View PostOtharus, on 08 February 2012 - 09:09 AM, said:

How could the girls know Wralda's dreams or visions?

Even your screenshot shows a connecting underscore between "drama" and "Wralda's". Why would that be?

Posted Image

Between "wêsa" and "ring" you see a clear dot.

And how could the girls know about Wralda's dreams? Because he gave them the breath of life just after they were born.


=======

-1- Thâ hja blât kêmon spisde Wr.alda hjam mith sina âdama;
-2- til thju tha maenneska an him skolde bvnden wêsa.
-3- Ring as hja rip wêron krêjon hja früchda aend nochta anda drâma Wr.aldas.
-4- Od trâd to-ra binna.
-5- aend nw bârdon ek twilif svna aend twilif togathera ek joltid twên.
-6- Thêrof send alle maenneska kêmen
.

-1- When they came naked (were born naked), Wr-alda fed her/them with his breath
-2- in order that men should be bound to him.
-3- As soon as they were ripe (=mature) they rejoyced and enjoyed Wr-alda's dreams.
-4- Small ones tread inside them.
-5- and now each bore twelve sons and twelve daughters each Juul-time a twin (-or "two"-).
-6- Thence come all mankind
.


blât - Du: bloot - En: naked
spisde - Du: Spijsde - En: fed
âdama - Du: adem - En: breath
früchda - Du: verheugden- En: rejoyced
nochta - Du: geneugte//genoegen/genoten - En: enjoyed


*od-ie, afries., Sb.: Vw.: s. klê-n >>
klê-n, afries., Adj.: Vw.: s. klê-n-e >>
klê-n-e, afries., Adj.: nhd. klein, schmal, dünn; ne. small

In ancient times spermcells/semen were/was supposed to carry 'little humans'

+++

EDIT:

In Dutch we still have a construction like "Huize God's" which means 'house of God' or church.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 08 February 2012 - 11:35 AM.


#10072    BFB

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 10:59 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 08 February 2012 - 10:40 AM, said:

blt - Du: bloot - En: naked
spisde - Du: Spijsde - En: fed

Dont know if its totally irrelevant, but in norse language. Blt = blue. Spisde = ate

"Its not true, before my brain says so" - BFB

#10073    Abramelin

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 11:15 AM

View PostBFB, on 08 February 2012 - 10:59 AM, said:

Dont know if its totally irrelevant, but in norse language. Blt = blue. Spisde = ate

There's another sentence in the OLB in which "blt" can only mean 'bare':

Th Frya bern was, stand vs moder naked aend blt, vnbihod to jenst tha strlum thre svnne.

Zodra Frya geboren was, stond ons moeder naakt en bloot, onbehoed te-gen de stralen der zon.

When Frya was born, our mother stood naked and bare, unprotected from the rays of the sun.



#10074    Scepticus

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 11:33 AM

Abramelin said:


-1- Th hja blt kmon spisde Wr.alda hjam mith sina dama;

-1- When they came naked (were born naked), Wr-alda fed her/them with his breath

There's another sentence in the OLB in which "blt" can only mean 'bare':

Th Frya bern was, stand vs moder naked aend blt, vnbihod to jenst tha strlum thre svnne.

When Frya was born, our mother stood naked and bare, unprotected from the rays of the sun.

Maybe avatars?

When they [be]came blue, Wr-alda ate her/them with his breath.

When Frya was born, our mother stood naked and blue, unprotected from the rays of the sun.

:D

The only way to get smarter is by playing a smarter opponent.

#10075    Abramelin

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 11:38 AM

View PostScepticus, on 08 February 2012 - 11:33 AM, said:

Maybe avatars?

When they [be]came blue, Wr-alda ate her/them with his breath.

When Frya was born, our mother stood naked and blue, unprotected from the rays of the sun.

:D

Yeah, something like this, lol:

Posted Image


#10076    The Puzzler

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Posted 08 February 2012 - 10:12 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 08 February 2012 - 09:57 AM, said:

Ne hlap navt to hastich hwand hyr lêid Adela

Dutch:
Nie loop niet (= double negative) te haastig want hier leit Adela.

English:
Don't walk too hastily for here lies Adela.

.
Cool, yes, I answered my own question  afew posts later with this:

I get it:

hlâp-a 22, afries., st. V. (7)=red. V.: nhd. laufen, gehen, rinnen, treten; ne. run
(V.), go (V.), step

hõ-st-a 1 und häufiger?, afries., sw. V. (1): nhd. hasten, eilen; ne. hurry (V.); E.: s.
hâ-st (1); L.: Hh 40a
hõ-st-e 4, hõ-st (2), afries., Adj.: nhd. gewaltsam; ne. forcible; Hw.: vgl. ae. hÚst
(2), ahd. heisti*, mnd. heysten; Q.: H, W, Jur; E.: germ. *haifsta-, *haifstaz, Adj.,
heftig; s. idg. *¨Ðibh-, Adj., schnell, heftig, Pokorny 542; L.: Hh 40a
hõ-st-ich 1, afries., Adj.: nhd. gewaltsam; ne. forcible; Hw.: vgl. mnd. haestigen;
Q.: Jur; E.: s. hõ-st-e, *ich; W.: saterl. hastich, Adj., gewaltsam; L.: Hh 40a, Rh
797b

hwa-n-d-e 35 und häufiger?, hwa-n-d-a, hwe-n-d-a, hwa-n-t-e, hwe-n-t-e, hwa-n-t,
hwe-n-t, afries., Konj.: nhd. denn, weil, da; ne. because, as;

Ne hlap navt to hastich hwand hyr lêid Adela.

TREAD SOFTLY, FOR HERE LIES ADELA

Never run nor hurry as here lies Adela

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If I combine yours and mine, I think a close one is:

Never step too hasty as here lies Adela.

I like to keep as close as I can to the Frisian words, so I am using them accordingly such as Never for Ne even though Don't would fit certainly.

Edited by The Puzzler, 08 February 2012 - 10:19 PM.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#10077    Otharus

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 09:27 AM

Letter from Cornelis Over de Linden to Dr. Ottema, dated 8-11-1871 (translated).

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Den Helder, 8 November 1871

Dear and erudite sir,

I am pleased that we have come to an agreement.

When nothing is in the way, one can think more clearly. Therefore I will once more point at my earlier comments.

You would prefer to translate 'poppenkoningen' into 'papenkings'
['paap' is an invection for catholics]. Here in Westfriesland strangers are called 'pop', terms like 'poppe-horses' and '-pigs' are known too.

Thus you would not risk a mistake if you would use 'strange kings' for 'poppa koningen'. You say: "In Apolonnia's book, the 'Formleer' is the purest representation of Godness, that most agrees with the Christian view. More sublime than Jehova from the old Testament, who goes for a walk in the garden of Eden in the morning, to have a chat with Adam.

If you want to prevent that many people will put the book aside, prejudiced at first sight, you should - according to my modest mind - avoid things that can upset people. One catches more flies with syrup than with vinegar.

[...]

When children need to swallow a bitter medicine, to free them of worms that hinder their growth, we don't say: "swallow this, stupid, because it's for your own good"; but we comfort them with sweet words and candy.

That's how scholars who want to elevate the people should act, rather than inveigh them with terms like grey, donkeys, etc.

You want to replace the word 'od' with 'animosity'. On page 128 I find FIAND for enemy. I would rather see you use 'fertilising force' - or a more appropriate term. The word animosity will cause animosity.
[Ottema would later change 'animosity' in 'hatred'.] When one speaks to youths about love, they will fall in love. But when one speaks to them of war, they will seperate in groups and play soldier, to the great pleasure of despotism.

[...]

Having nothing else bothering me, I great you friendly, and am respectfully at your service,

C. Over de Linden.


~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~


#10078    Abramelin

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 10:55 AM

Otharus, why do you think CodL would try to correct Ottema on the latter translating the word OD into 'animosity'?

I mean to say: CodL resepcted Ottema and his erudition. He could instead have asked something like, "Are you sure OD means 'animosity'?

The sentence you translated almost makes it look like CodL knew better then Ottema.

And "fertilizing force" is not just another, nicer, more positive, or better sounding expression for the word "animosity", it means something totally different.

++++

EDIT:

The next is only a reminder of what has been posted before:

The Odic force (also called Od [õd], Odyle, Önd, Odes, Odylic, Odyllic, or Odems) is the name given in the mid-19th century to a hypothetical vital energy or life force by Baron Carl von Reichenbach. Von Reichenbach coined the name from that of the Norse god Odin in 1845.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Odic_force


Odin.
His name is related to ōðr, meaning "fury, excitation," besides "mind," or "poetry."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odin

Based on what I think - that CodL was one of the co-creators of the OLB - I'd say that CodL was the one who entered that word, OD, into the OLB using what he had read, and was now amazed an erudite person like Ottema translated it into 'animosity'. Like in "Hey, that was not what I meant!"

.

Edited by Abramelin, 09 February 2012 - 11:08 AM.


#10079    Knul

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 11:14 AM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 08 February 2012 - 10:12 PM, said:

Cool, yes, I answered my own question  afew posts later with this:

I get it:

hlâp-a 22, afries., st. V. (7)=red. V.: nhd. laufen, gehen, rinnen, treten; ne. run
(V.), go (V.), step

hõ-st-a 1 und häufiger?, afries., sw. V. (1): nhd. hasten, eilen; ne. hurry (V.); E.: s.
hâ-st (1); L.: Hh 40a
hõ-st-e 4, hõ-st (2), afries., Adj.: nhd. gewaltsam; ne. forcible; Hw.: vgl. ae. hÚst
(2), ahd. heisti*, mnd. heysten; Q.: H, W, Jur; E.: germ. *haifsta-, *haifstaz, Adj.,
heftig; s. idg. *¨Ðibh-, Adj., schnell, heftig, Pokorny 542; L.: Hh 40a
hõ-st-ich 1, afries., Adj.: nhd. gewaltsam; ne. forcible; Hw.: vgl. mnd. haestigen;
Q.: Jur; E.: s. hõ-st-e, *ich; W.: saterl. hastich, Adj., gewaltsam; L.: Hh 40a, Rh
797b

hwa-n-d-e 35 und häufiger?, hwa-n-d-a, hwe-n-d-a, hwa-n-t-e, hwe-n-t-e, hwa-n-t,
hwe-n-t, afries., Konj.: nhd. denn, weil, da; ne. because, as;

Ne hlap navt to hastich hwand hyr lêid Adela.

TREAD SOFTLY, FOR HERE LIES ADELA

Never run nor hurry as here lies Adela

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If I combine yours and mine, I think a close one is:

Never step too hasty as here lies Adela.

I like to keep as close as I can to the Frisian words, so I am using them accordingly such as Never for Ne even though Don't would fit certainly.

What's wrong with the English translation by Sandbach ?  You make a mess of your translation.

Edited by Knul, 09 February 2012 - 11:15 AM.


#10080    Knul

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Posted 09 February 2012 - 11:17 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 09 February 2012 - 10:55 AM, said:

Otharus, why do you think CodL would try to correct Ottema on the latter translating the word OD into 'animosity'?

I mean to say: CodL resepcted Ottema and his erudition. He could instead have asked something like, "Are you sure OD means 'animosity'?

The sentence you translated almost makes it look like CodL knew better then Ottema.

And "fertilizing force" is not just another, nicer, more positive, or better sounding expression for the word "animosity", it means something totally different.

++++

EDIT:

The next is only a reminder of what has been posted before:

The Odic force (also called Od [d], Odyle, nd, Odes, Odylic, Odyllic, or Odems) is the name given in the mid-19th century to a hypothetical vital energy or life force by Baron Carl von Reichenbach. Von Reichenbach coined the name from that of the Norse god Odin in 1845.

http://en.wikipedia....wiki/Odic_force


Odin.
His name is related to ōr, meaning "fury, excitation," besides "mind," or "poetry."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odin

Based on what I think - that CodL was one of the co-creators of the OLB - I'd say that CodL was the one who entered that word, OD, into the OLB using what he had read, and was now amazed an erudite person like Ottema translated it into 'animosity'. Like in "Hey, that was not what I meant!"

.

It only shows that Cornelis over de Linden overestimated himself like he did in a letter to the Province of Friesland.