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[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


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#4666    Alewyn

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 11:34 AM

View PostLeonardo, on 05 May 2011 - 11:00 AM, said:

I took this information from Jensma's 2007 book dealing with the OLB, although I have not read Jensma's book, but only know of this piece of information from other sources referencing it. I would suggest either obtaining a copy of that book, or visiting the Koninkliijke Bibliotheek to view the almanacs they actually have (I believe you can secure a copy online from them).



I never stated they were the only people using this date. More research is required to ascertain if this was a date commonly held in various societies as being one of the possible dates of the Noahic Flood.



Well, the drought conditions experienced towards the end of the Egyptian Old Kingdom have been attributed to the cyclical Sahel drying. If you google this, you will find the phenomenon does have a global effect, however it is not caused by catastrophes such as impactors.

As for "evidence of tsunamis and/or floods from all over the world", the world is a very active place, climactically and seismically. There should be no surprise that evidence of climactic and/or seismic events are common. That does not suggest they all happened at the same time due to one global event.
Leonardo,
You will notice that I started my list in post 4653 with "4200 years ago..."
Everything I listed is what happened in ca. 2200 BC. So I am saying it all happened at the same time i.e. during the 4.2ka BP event. You can check all of them.
Most scientists are still not certain whether the event happened suddenly or gradually.
The reason why a distinct event has not been picked up yet in ice cores is because to date they have mostly looked at bigger increments such as 50 or 100 years. I believe they now realise that they should reduce their search criteria to 5 or 10  years to pick up a single sudden event. Research is now focussed on this and I am certain we shall see results within the next year or two.


#4667    Alewyn

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 11:38 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 05 May 2011 - 11:09 AM, said:

I do not expect that someone writing a fictive ancient history of her/his people to use another very known book/manuscript word for word. If someone wants to create a fictive history (for whatever reason) that looks authentic, then s/he will mix from several available sources.

You talk about scientific evidence, but I'd still like to see that evidence for crumbling mountains, erupting volcanoes, submerging lands, lands arising from the sees, gigantic floods, fires all over, and all that at around 2200 BC in Europe. And yes, Europe, for that was where Frya's empire was located.
You yourself already gave some evidence. See my post:
"Archaeologists found megalithic chambered tombs near Defile in the Netherlands which disappeared after 2200 BC under several feet of clay and peat (with acknowledgement to Abramelin)."


#4668    Abramelin

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 11:43 AM

View PostAlewyn, on 05 May 2011 - 11:38 AM, said:

You yourself already gave some evidence. See my post:
"Archaeologists found megalithic chambered tombs near Defile in the Netherlands which disappeared after 2200 BC under several feet of clay and peat (with acknowledgement to Abramelin)."

That could prove a flood, true.

But I also mentioned (or better, the OLB does) erupting volcanoes, fires, and all that (see my former post happening at the same time, around 2200 BC, and in Europe.

Btw, Alewyn, do you still have that pdf that you quoted from (the megalithic chambers in the Netherlands). I appear to have lost it..

.

Edited by Abramelin, 05 May 2011 - 11:45 AM.


#4669    Abramelin

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 12:18 PM

Took me a bit of digging in my files, but I found something I posted here a long time ago.

It's about a volcanic eruption taking place around 2200 BC, Italy, but not one even close to the Thera eruption of centuries later:


2200
© Eruption of the Campi Flegrei. (± 50 yrs).


http://www.researchi...oryto501bc.html
(this link is dead, but it's saved on the Webarchives site:
http://classic-web.a...oryto501bc.html)

http://boinnk.nl/blo...g=campi-flegrei

http://cires.colorad...iHelenBrand.pdf


Local collapse during this phase resulted in the Agnano caldera which was formed by several eruptions. Other major eruptions whose products are well exposed, occurred at Cigliano, Agnano-Monte Spina (4000 abp), Astroni (3700 abp) and Averno (3700 abp), Solfatara and Monte Olibano . The last eruption in the area occurred in historical time and was that of Monte Nuovo (1538 AD).

http://vulcan.fis.un...legreitext.html


http://en.wikipedia....legraean_Fields

.

Edited by Abramelin, 05 May 2011 - 12:37 PM.


#4670    Abramelin

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 12:23 PM

Searching through this thread, I read I asked Alewyn a while ago, "Why do you think that Middelzee in Friesland was so important??"

This was of course in connection to the Middelzee/Middel-se being the western border of the Fryan Empire (OLB), or as the OLB says, "bordered in the direction of the evening by the Middel-se.". For many that 'Middel-se' was nothing else but the Mediterranean. *I* say that this Middel-Se in THAT part of the OLB is nothing but the Frisian Middel-Se/MiddelZee ("sea in the Middle").


The Battle of the Boarn (West Frisian: Slach oan de Boarn Dutch: Slag aan de Boorne) was an eighth century battle between the Franks and the Frisians near the mouth of the river Boarn in what is now the Dutch province of Friesland.

In 734 a Frankish army commanded by Majordomo Charles Martel invaded Friesland in a campaign that was part of a series of ongoing wars and skirmishes between the Franks and the Frisians. Marching along the river Boarn the Frankish army reached the mouth of the river where it used to flow into the Bordine estuary or Middelsee. This estuary has since silted up and been claimed for agriculture during the 10th to 14th century.

The Frisians commanded by King Poppo used boats to land their army and surprise the Franks. However, the Frisian army was beaten and Poppo killed.[1] The Franks gained control of the Frisian lands west of the Lauwers estuary and the Frisians became vassals of the Franks apart from the tribes living in East Frisia in present day Germany.


http://en.wikipedia....le_of_the_Boarn


And here it says: "Tot aan de Middelzee was Friesland onder Frankische controle" or in English: "Up to the Middelzee Friesland was under Frankish control", ~~LINK~~


Some hypothetical maps of the area:

Posted Image
Posted Image

.

Edited by Abramelin, 05 May 2011 - 12:39 PM.


#4671    The Puzzler

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 01:22 PM

Phlegraean Fields, how obvious.

Phlegra is a mythical location in both Greek and Roman mythology.

It is a region of Macedonia in Greece. In Greek mythology, it is the site of Zeus's overthrowing of the Giants (Gigantes) at the end of the Gigantomachy.

Strabo wrote that Phlegrae was also called the Phlegraean Plain in Campania near Cumae. He writes that the Giants who survived, were driven out by Heracles, finding refuge with their mother in the site of Leuca (in Italy's 'heel'). A fountain there has smelly water from the ichor of the giants.

Strabo also writes

The peninsula Pallene, on whose isthmus is situated the city formerly called Potidaea and now Cassandreia, was called Phlegra in still earlier times. It used to be inhabited by the giants of whom the myths are told, an impious and lawless tribe, whom Heracles destroyed. [Strabo, Geography 7]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phlegra

Our swimming areas here are 2 of these - they are holes from air pushed out from an underground volcano.

Heres one:
Posted Image

and another popular one:
Posted Image

I am actually very familiar with this process, the Visitor Centres have all this info and signs showing you how they occur and as I mentioned the soil is red, because it's volcanic, ancient volcanic area this is.

The Phlegraean Fields is the Titanomachy area - it's the reason for the catastrophe and the people here keep the knowledge of it. It's been transferred to Thessaly, I knew it - the rape of the Sabines. I have read it was in Thessaly the Titanomachy occurred.
There must have been flodding at some time, like the 2200BC event - the OLB says there is catastrophe on the Middle Sea shores.

It's the entrance to the Underworld says Aeneid. It creates hot springs, thermal baths, we have those too, very popular tourist attraction.

Baiae is now underwater.

Because of coastal subsidence most of Baiae is now under water in the Bay of Naples, largely due to local volcanic activity


This is where the earliest latin type script is found, Cumae area, where the Greeks went first too. This area is the clash of 2 different cultures. the underworld of Hades and Persephone - the heat and steam probably rising with sulphuric fumes, which probably was an original type Sibyl thing.

The Phlegraean Fields, also known as Campi Flegrei, (from Greek φλέγος, burning), is a large 13 kilometres (8.1 mi) wide caldera situated to the west of Naples, Italy. It was declared a regional park in 2003. Lying mostly underwater, the area comprises 24 craters and volcanic edifices. Hydrothermal activity can be observed at Lucrino, Agnano and the town of Pozzuoli. There are also effusive gaseous manifestations in the Solfatara crater, which is known as the mythological home of the Roman god of fire, Vulcan. The area also features bradyseismic phenomena, which are most evident at the temple of Serapis in Pozzuoli.

The area of the Ops, people who were known to have lived before the flood. Ops is the cult of Saturn too in Italy.
The seat of Vulcan, Hephaestus probably - then there is Serapis..! I just bought that up with Slim, Serapis seems to equate to Jesus Christ or at least Christians.

The land of Egypt, the praises of which you have been recounting to me, my dear Servianus, I have found to be wholly light-minded, unstable, and blown about by every breath of rumour. There those who worship Serapis are, in fact, Christians, and those who call themselves bishops of Christ are, in fact, devotees of Serapis. There is no chief of the Jewish synagogue, no Samaritan, no Christian presbyter, who is not an astrologer, a soothsayer, or an anointer. Even the Patriarch himself, when he comes to Egypt, is forced by some to worship Serapis, by others to worship Christ
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serapis

I have looked at Liguria but didn't pick up on the connections straight off to the giants in  Phlegra, good one Abe, thanks for mentioning it.

Edited by The Puzzler, 05 May 2011 - 02:01 PM.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#4672    Otharus

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 01:29 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 05 May 2011 - 11:43 AM, said:

That could prove a flood, true.

But I also mentioned (or better, the OLB does) erupting volcanoes, fires, and all that (see my former post happening at the same time, around 2200 BC, and in Europe.

View PostOtharus, on 09 April 2011 - 04:42 AM, said:

We should be aware that when the text about the big flood (that could be read on the walls of all the burgs) was copied in the 6th century BC, the story was already some 16 centuries old. That means that, although without doubt it had been a big disaster for the Fryans, part of it may have been dramatic exaggeration.



#4673    Abramelin

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 01:48 PM

View PostOtharus, on 05 May 2011 - 01:29 PM, said:



I know I have said that that date 2194 BC, could have been nothing but a mythical date, like the Jews (and many Christians) use for the creation of the earth.

That is something what Overwijn suggested in his book about the OLB (1941, second and extended edition 1951) , but he thinks the true date should have been 6200 BC, when Doggerland got flooded (to him Doggerland was Aldland/Atland).

Btw, I hope you read about my recent post on the Campi Flegrei eruption (Italy) of around 2200 BC.

But from what I read online, that eruption wasn't nearly as destructive as the centuries later eruption of Mt. Thera.

+++

EDIT:

I'd like to add that this Campi Flegrei WAS the most promising candidate to prove a devasting eruption around 2200 BC.

It's history is vey much more violent: there are those who say that the main reason the Neanderthals died out was because of a gigantic eruption of the Campi Flegrei around 37,000 BP; it covered much of ice-free Europe and north western Russia in ash, which caused animals and plants to die and thus the food source of the Neanderthals.

The Campi Flegrei is similar to that 'monster' that lurks beneath Yellowstone Park.


"How Europe came to be settled exclusively by modern humans has been a subject of much debate. It's still not known if Homo sapiens out competed, out bred, or directly killed off Homo neanderthalensis, or if they absorbed some of them through interbreeding. So it was frustrating to read about the eruption of Campi Flegrei during this time and to find out there was almost no information about the volcano's impact on humans.

Now, however, there is new evidence in the form of ash layers and tool deposits in Russian caves. These findings suggest that Flegrei's Campanian Ignimbrite super-eruption played an important role in depopulating portions of Europe and clearing the way for the first influx of modern humans.

If true, this would help to make sense of how Homo sapiens were finally able to displace the Neanderthals, as an earlier Neanderthal presence in the Middle East appears to have kept our ancestors bottled up in Africa for tens of thousands of years. When we finally undertook our first successful migration out of our home-continent, it was south along the coastline of the Arabian Peninsula, skirting the areas inhabited by Homo neanderthalensis at the time."


http://infmonk.blogs...eanderthal.html
.

Edited by Abramelin, 05 May 2011 - 02:05 PM.


#4674    Abramelin

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 01:49 PM

IN the OLB women play a prominent role, and - as assumed by many - a situation different from most other people of ancient Europe.

Well this is what Strabo had to tell:


Strabo gives this vivid description of the Cimbric folklore (Geogr. 7.2.3, trans. H.L. Jones):

Their wives, who would accompany them on their expeditions, were attended by priestesses who were seers; these were grey-haired, clad in white, with flaxen cloaks fastened on with clasps, girt with girdles of bronze, and bare-footed; now sword in hand these priestesses would meet with the prisoners of war throughout the camp, and having first crowned them with wreaths would lead them to a brazen vessel of about twenty amphorae; and they had a raised platform which the priestess would mount, and then, bending over the kettle, would cut the throat of each prisoner after he had been lifted up; and from the blood that poured forth into the vessel some of the priestesses would draw a prophecy, while still others would split open the body and from an inspection of the entrails would utter a prophecy of victory for their own people; and during the battles they would beat on the hides that were stretched over the wicker-bodies of the wagons and in this way produce an unearthly noise.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimbri

From another source:

[About the Alans = Jazyges ]:
Jazyges – a nomadic branch of the Sarmatians, and therefore also of Iranian stock. First known to reside near the Sea of Azov, later settled on the Pannonian plain. Often fighting with, and sometimes for Rome, Jazygian cavalry in Britain may have contributed to the formation of the Arthurian legend. Their name is preserved in that of the Romanian city of Iasi.

Sarmatia – the region of Eastern Europe inhabited in Antiquity by the Sarmatians, a collection of tribes of Persian stock, in their greatest range around 100 BC occupying land from Barentsz Sea (north) to the Danube (south) and from the Vistula (west) to the Caspian Sea (east). The Sarmatians may be the origin of the centuries-old legends about women-warriors, as their females enjoyed an uncommon degree of participation in social life. The Sarmatians were related to the Scythians, allied themselves with the Huns in the 4th century and only disappeared from view at the time of the Gothic ascendancy in the Black Sea area. The modern-day Ossetians (in Georgia and Russia) might well be descendents of the Scythians/Sarmatians.


http://bigthink.com/ideas/21261


#4675    The Puzzler

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 02:42 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 05 May 2011 - 01:49 PM, said:

IN the OLB women play a prominent role, and - as assumed by many - a situation different from most other people of ancient Europe.

Well this is what Strabo had to tell:


Strabo gives this vivid description of the Cimbric folklore (Geogr. 7.2.3, trans. H.L. Jones):

Their wives, who would accompany them on their expeditions, were attended by priestesses who were seers; these were grey-haired, clad in white, with flaxen cloaks fastened on with clasps, girt with girdles of bronze, and bare-footed; now sword in hand these priestesses would meet with the prisoners of war throughout the camp, and having first crowned them with wreaths would lead them to a brazen vessel of about twenty amphorae; and they had a raised platform which the priestess would mount, and then, bending over the kettle, would cut the throat of each prisoner after he had been lifted up; and from the blood that poured forth into the vessel some of the priestesses would draw a prophecy, while still others would split open the body and from an inspection of the entrails would utter a prophecy of victory for their own people; and during the battles they would beat on the hides that were stretched over the wicker-bodies of the wagons and in this way produce an unearthly noise.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cimbri

From another source:

[About the Alans = Jazyges ]:
Jazyges – a nomadic branch of the Sarmatians, and therefore also of Iranian stock. First known to reside near the Sea of Azov, later settled on the Pannonian plain. Often fighting with, and sometimes for Rome, Jazygian cavalry in Britain may have contributed to the formation of the Arthurian legend. Their name is preserved in that of the Romanian city of Iasi.

Sarmatia – the region of Eastern Europe inhabited in Antiquity by the Sarmatians, a collection of tribes of Persian stock, in their greatest range around 100 BC occupying land from Barentsz Sea (north) to the Danube (south) and from the Vistula (west) to the Caspian Sea (east). The Sarmatians may be the origin of the centuries-old legends about women-warriors, as their females enjoyed an uncommon degree of participation in social life. The Sarmatians were related to the Scythians, allied themselves with the Huns in the 4th century and only disappeared from view at the time of the Gothic ascendancy in the Black Sea area. The modern-day Ossetians (in Georgia and Russia) might well be descendents of the Scythians/Sarmatians.


http://bigthink.com/ideas/21261

I found the Campi Flagrei most interesting, I hope you caught my post about it before.
The Sarmatians are Amazons imo and also Pallas. These people somehow went to Libya and settled there as Aryan Libyans. (imo)

They may went there when the eruption in Italy took place spoken of at the Campi Flegrei and settled, then seem to have entered Greece. It is the history of the Camp Flegrei area the Greeks took and what Plato is probably on about - I think my brain can see it all coming together in that dept.

The Giants lived there, before the flood, it's exactly what the OLB connotation is - before the flood they did have people in factories in Near Krekaland and those people were ones who suffered in the desctruction that hit the Med. as well - people left and went to Lyda's land..! some came up to Frya's land, Finda's people came in too - lots of change.

This also would have occurred right in the middle of all the other 2200BC falls, famines and floods - it really could have been something. I'd even say Alba Longa is part of this and also Latium and as I said all along, with Hestia and the Vestal Virgins and flame of Latium, it would be unusual if they WEREN'T some sort of Fryan fed. people. Romans are the ones who particularly have the Nordic look, the fairer ones of ancient days, although even in Northern Italy fairer types are.

I'm not necessarily saying it's Atland, that could still be in the East but I'd say it easily co-incides with the parts in the OLB and the giants were actually the Northern European Nordics who were in near Krekaland. The myths of the Greeks, if they came out of Phlegra can then come full circle, their myths are from Italy to Libya to Greece and contact with Egypt and all other areas in between, this is when an ancient flood happened and everyone left the PALLENE peninsula.

What we do know, is that the myth has a people coming from the area associated with AZ - Snorri calls Troy Asaland, we know it's in an area of what appears to be very Iranian symbolism, with a central fire and this also tallies with the lamp of the Fryans, that Ulysses needed too, the Trojans came into Latium - that means a group of people from Troy arrived in Latium, a group of AZ people - they were there in the beginning - the myth has covered this up - they were the fire people to start with there before the flood - the Fryans.

Let's say a group of people were in Latium with the alphabet that was Fryan.

Giants with an alphabet, fair people, maybe red heads too, Caligula is said to have been a red head, they spoke an Indo-European language and had writing - then a flood hit and volcanic eruptions and people split - the knowledge of Latium went into myth and they arrived in Libya around 2100BC I guess and maybe even Egypt - the Argives, Pelasgians, who were actually people who had left the Italian peninsula. They may have arrived in Egypt and even led to the downfall of the old Kingdom, once famine also came in - Ipuwer could be from this time, maybe the Exodus is also, who knows really.(If the Exodus is in the same time as the pyramids - it can align both of those events down to c. 1200BC by Herodotus and the Bible - when really they placed much earlier, as said 2200BC, 2400BC.) This could be when the pyramids were built because of this event, this is literally the Catastrophe of the Greek myths, the fall of the sky, when Atlas fell, the Titanomachy, when the Titans, forces of nature attacked the new Gods, Saturn was out and Zeus was in, at this point Plato starts his narrative. Poseidon went to Libya and these people would be the Atlanteans. They developed in Libya and came back into Greece. It was probably from this they left and first settled Troy. If Athena is Idunna, she could have much to do with the Underworld and may have been in Italy as Minerva since this was her real role.

Edited by The Puzzler, 05 May 2011 - 02:49 PM.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#4676    Alewyn

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 02:43 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 05 May 2011 - 11:43 AM, said:

That could prove a flood, true.

But I also mentioned (or better, the OLB does) erupting volcanoes, fires, and all that (see my former post happening at the same time, around 2200 BC, and in Europe.

Btw, Alewyn, do you still have that pdf that you quoted from (the megalithic chambers in the Netherlands). I appear to have lost it..

.
http://www.waddensea...7knottnerus.pdf

Sea Level Rise as a Threat to Cultural Heritage, Otto S. Knottnerus, Zuidbroek, NL


#4677    The Puzzler

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 02:57 PM

I had pondered this before when Slim bought up a theory. I don't generally agree with it I guess, because I don't know all that much, but I do think Atlantis in Italy is very logical, this was my response to Slim..

don't even know what to say.

First I though, what the??? But I am half way through reading the article and it actually seems to make quite some sense. The shape and size are pretty correct, the sinking would have created enough flooding and catastrophe to have affected and flooded Greece and Italy, which has the old myths of severe flooding etc. Italy was called Hesperia so could be construed as the Island of the Hesperides...it is west of Greece in an ocean.

The sinking of Atland as mentioned in the OLB book does affect the people of the Mediterranean. Maybe it was when Malta and Sicily became seperated from Africa.

Gosh, it's almost too obvious. I will have to spend some serious time on this one.

I dunno Slim, but a great rabbit out the hat that article is.


I thought it may have come from Malta and Sicily seperating  but Swede set me straight so now I have found this eruption, this would be what it is.

I can see the word Phlegraean is really (con)flagration. imo of course.

Edited by The Puzzler, 05 May 2011 - 03:02 PM.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#4678    Alewyn

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 02:58 PM

View PostAlewyn, on 05 May 2011 - 11:38 AM, said:

You yourself already gave some evidence. See my post:
"Archaeologists found megalithic chambered tombs near Defile in the Netherlands which disappeared after 2200 BC under several feet of clay and peat (with acknowledgement to Abramelin)."
Apologies. That should read "Delfzijl in the Netherlands".


#4679    Abramelin

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 03:08 PM

View PostAlewyn, on 05 May 2011 - 02:58 PM, said:

Apologies. That should read "Delfzijl in the Netherlands".

LOL, that is why I couldn't find it !!

"Defilé" is a Dutch word meaning something like 'royal procession'.


#4680    Abramelin

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Posted 05 May 2011 - 03:12 PM

View PostAlewyn, on 05 May 2011 - 02:43 PM, said:

http://www.waddensea...7knottnerus.pdf

Sea Level Rise as a Threat to Cultural Heritage, Otto S. Knottnerus, Zuidbroek, NL

But nothing points to a catastrophic flood, tsunami style:

For long, permanent settlement was largely restricted
to the edges of the coastal area. Dozens of
sites were located on moraine hillocks and river
dunes, where they were subsequently buried under
marine or riverain sediments or became overgrown
by the mires.
Near Delfzijl (Netherlands)
Neolithic settlers built a megalithic chambered tomb
about 3350 BC. After 2200 BC, the site disappeared
under several feet of clay and peat. As many as 77
megalithic graves are located on the North Frisian
Islands alone, whereas the adjoining mudflats and
sandbanks provided dozens of flint daggers and
sickles.
As sea level rise slowed down, the local tribesmen
began to reclaim the coastal plains. About
1200 BC, Bronze Age farmers settled down at a
former river-estuary North of Amsterdam.


http://www.waddensea...7knottnerus.pdf