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Near-death experiences are 'electrical surge


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#16    sam_comm

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 11:57 PM

I've never been a strong believer of NDE but those those experiencing it certainly are and I accept the possibility that it could be something unexplained concerning the after life. For sure it is hard to say wheter it's an hallucination, a vivid dream or the after life that is at play. Truly the brain as we begin to learn more about it has astonishing features. But is it a coincidence that some people on the brink of death dream about the 'other side' if I can call it so and/or is it a mechanisime of the subconsious materializing a fear? Could it really be a glimpse of what is beyond this world or a combination of both, independant in each cases? So many question which I think this article does not really respond though weight in on a scientific proposal which was already suspected.

Edited by sam_comm, 13 August 2013 - 11:59 PM.


#17    Zeta Reticulum

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 12:03 AM

View PostWhite Crane Feather, on 13 August 2013 - 07:13 PM, said:

Except there are cases of NDEs occurring when the brain is 'turned off'.

The problem that most skeptics gloss over is that if NDEs are a spiritual phenomenon, then there must be an interface between the physical brain and the spirit mind. Quite obviously you cannot recount an experience without a 'downloading' of information via memory. Changes in the brain fit perfectly with a spiritual interpretation and not so good with a materialistic one.
Well said


#18    pallidin

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 12:48 AM

Well, of course there would be increased neuron activity prior to death(excepting such things as explosions, etc..)

The brain is trying to quickly figure-out, often unsucessfully, how to get out of imminent total death. Seems reasonable.
It's a brain, after all. That would be expected. The CPU of the human/animal species. Fight or Flight, to the death.


#19    redhen

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 01:28 AM

View Postpallidin, on 14 August 2013 - 12:48 AM, said:

Well, of course there would be increased neuron activity prior to death(excepting such things as explosions, etc..)

The brain is trying to quickly figure-out, often unsucessfully, how to get out of imminent total death. Seems reasonable.
It's a brain, after all. That would be expected. The CPU of the human/animal species. Fight or Flight, to the death.

Yes, it does seem rather obvious doesn't it? So the question should be why submit these animals, excuse me, "models", to these unnecessary and therefore cruel procedures?

"To find out more, scientists at the University of Michigan monitored nine rats as they were dying. In the 30-second period after the animal's hearts stopped beating, they measured a sharp increase in high-frequency brainwaves called gamma oscillations.
These pulses are one of the neuronal features that are thought to underpin consciousness in humans, especially when they help to "link" information from different parts of the brain."

The Washington Post story is more neutral/unbiased by eliminating the human monopoly on consciousness.

"Within the first 30 seconds after the heart had stopped, all the mammals displayed a surge of highly synchronized brain activity that had features associated with consciousness and visual activation."

"Ask the experimenters why they experiment on animals, and the answer is: 'Because the animals are like us.' Ask the experimenters why it is morally OK to experiment on animals, and the answer is: 'Because the animals are not like us.' Animal experimentation rests on a logical contradiction."   - Magel, Dr. Charles R., Prof. of Ethics, Moorhead St. Univ.


#20    flbrnt

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 01:35 AM

The NDE problem will not be solved until the mind-body connection problem is solved and that is as old as philosophy.


#21    pallidin

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 02:06 AM

View Postflbrnt, on 14 August 2013 - 01:35 AM, said:

The NDE problem will not be solved until the mind-body connection problem is solved and that is as old as philosophy.

True, and do that, you will gain a Nobel Prize in whatever form of science this would eventually apply.


#22    White Crane Feather

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 02:12 AM

View Postpallidin, on 14 August 2013 - 02:06 AM, said:



True, and do that, you will gain a Nobel Prize in whatever form of science this would eventually apply.
Ill see if I can take a camera with me when I die. ;)

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
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#23    pallidin

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 02:26 AM

View Postredhen, on 14 August 2013 - 01:28 AM, said:

Yes, it does seem rather obvious doesn't it? So the question should be why submit these animals, excuse me, "models", to these unnecessary and therefore cruel procedures?

"To find out more, scientists at the University of Michigan monitored nine rats as they were dying. In the 30-second period after the animal's hearts stopped beating, they measured a sharp increase in high-frequency brainwaves called gamma oscillations.
These pulses are one of the neuronal features that are thought to underpin consciousness in humans, especially when they help to "link" information from different parts of the brain."

The Washington Post story is more neutral/unbiased by eliminating the human monopoly on consciousness.

"Within the first 30 seconds after the heart had stopped, all the mammals displayed a surge of highly synchronized brain activity that had features associated with consciousness and visual activation."

"Ask the experimenters why they experiment on animals, and the answer is: 'Because the animals are like us.' Ask the experimenters why it is morally OK to experiment on animals, and the answer is: 'Because the animals are not like us.' Animal experimentation rests on a logical contradiction."   - Magel, Dr. Charles R., Prof. of Ethics, Moorhead St. Univ.

I understand your position(as what I can understand from a single post) but I must respectfully disagree.

Not being a biologist or scientist, it is my understanding that significant, extremely helpful advances in human care has been from the direct result of animal experiments(often resulting in their death). A mouse, rat, or similar simply has no equal standing with respect to the learning of human-life disease and disorder.

I do have a problem with monkey experiments, though. But I probably shouldn't, in the total scheme of things regarding human survival.

As you might correctly infer, I'm not a PETA fan, at all.


#24    pallidin

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 02:29 AM

View PostWhite Crane Feather, on 14 August 2013 - 02:12 AM, said:

Ill see if I can take a camera with me when I die. ;)

I will provide extended-life batteries...


#25    Codemonger

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 05:08 AM

View Postnothinglizx2, on 13 August 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

How do you give a spiritual explanation of this to an athiest? Someone who doesn't want to believe will make up every excuse not to. Those who want to believe or understand will seek the answers for themselves. Sure there is electrical activity in the brain for a certain amount of time, During Astral projection we are connected to the back of the head, where the head meets the neck by a grey tether. If this tether is cut then the body will lose it's connection with the soul. After death this connection can remain for up to three days. I haven't heard of any cases that last for longer. There may be some sort of judging process happening. Those who have died and saw black, let me ask you something, how is your relationship with God? Scientist who do not believe in a God or the soul are wtinesses only to the science of the world. Those who believe in God and the soul realize something that athiest and many scientist refuse to acknowledge, The soul is a multi-dimensional spiritual being. Sort of like electrons and photons existing in two places at once. Reference: http://discovermagaz...er#.UgqKVm0uyCg

Scientist may have given names to many things in the universe, but they did not create them. They only found what someone else left behind. Don't forget that there are scientist who are spiritual and scientist who are athiest so you will always get two different answers. There are also scientist who are satanist who will give false data to people they are trying to corrupt and control. One day I hope everyone will realize the magnitude of that last statement. Because these satanist seek power, ultimate power, they have killed many people who have tried to teach the truth in order to keep their power and their hold upon the people, this goes way back, even Plato felt this destructive force upon the people. These satanist have even infultrated the highest levels of the church, synagogues and governments. Many people who challenged them like Joan de arc, they have tricked into admission of heresy and denial of God and to be labeled as a witch or warlock. So as you see you can't really be sure of who you can trust on planet earth because if you ask enough scientist what they believe about NDE's, Astral Projection, God, and the Soul, your going to get really different answers. It's the same with the many different religions, it can confuse and warp your understanding and desire to find and follow God. So finding the answers should be a personal experience until we can prove it either scientificly or spiritually to all. So far Photons and Electrons in two places is the best evidence.

The body and soul are one, as long as they body is alive, anyone who says that it is not a spiritual thing, do not realize how much they directly effect one another. If the brain experiences a physical trauma so as to leave the patient angry for the rest of his or her life it can effect the dimension of the soul. Higher dimensions = a higher vibration leads to light and serenity, lower dimensions = a lower vibration which leads to emtiness and/or torture and darkness.. If the frequency is off, the body and soul cannot correlate. This correlation happens at 7 different organs within the body. However the tether is between the neck and head and it's fitting because information is sent through the neurons so as to synchronize the vibration of the soul to the body. and it's organs.

I could go on all day about these matters, but ultimately it's you who has to do the research for yourself. The brave few will find it's truth.

Astral who ?? cmon now ...

View Posthighdesert50, on 13 August 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

While this research attempts to provide real insight into the how it occurs. No research yet explains the why? With the nearly infinite permutations of brain-memory activity, why this profoundly spiritual experience?

I think this would be the most important thing to investigate.


#26    mackbolin

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Posted 14 August 2013 - 03:37 PM

ahhh yes ...the   "overloaded brain theory" raises it's head once again.


#27    willowdreams

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 06:43 AM

View PostMetal Head, on 13 August 2013 - 06:28 PM, said:

My problem with Near Death Experiences is that if you are truly dead, as in brain dead, there is no way you can remember what happened while you are dead. There is no brain activity, memory is turned off. NEAR Death Experiences however suggest that you are NOT dead but near death, and your mind is free to make up whatever you like about the time you were NEAR death, i.e. NOT dead. The brain is not turned off and is free to fabricate memories/ideas/scenarios.

agreed, imagine though, todays near death was yesteryears death.

People are pulled from the brink of death today that rarely ever happened before.

I have no problems with the idea of the brain going into overdrive in certain areas when it thinks it is dying.

I have a problem with others NOT believing it. I mean, we accept movies and such like terminator where the termiator is dying (talking bout the liquid like what in t2)  and all the electrical stuff inside him goes nutso and you see his 'body' memory of all the pple he killed and made himself look like.

Those things are easy for us to accept, yup, it is just movies, but we do not see such a thing as being weird.

at work today a light over me went 'out', there was a crackly noise, then a brief almost blink your eyes to miss it, glare of light then woosh, it was out.

My decent laptop, when it died, there was a crackling sound, then sparks out one of those holes on the side you plug things in to recharge it, it seemed to surge in electricity to spark.. then woosh, smoke and my poor baby was gone.

anyways, i see this as an easy thing to believe, the brain is like a computer, it can peter out and die, or maybe due to some kind  of genetics or something, it sparks in the end, sparks here and there and crackles in itself then if the brain/body is not somehow revived, just whooshes out and died.

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#28    White Crane Feather

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 03:10 PM

View Postwillowdreams, on 15 August 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:



agreed, imagine though, todays near death was yesteryears death.

People are pulled from the brink of death today that rarely ever happened before.

I have no problems with the idea of the brain going into overdrive in certain areas when it thinks it is dying.

I have a problem with others NOT believing it. I mean, we accept movies and such like terminator where the termiator is dying (talking bout the liquid like what in t2)  and all the electrical stuff inside him goes nutso and you see his 'body' memory of all the pple he killed and made himself look like.

Those things are easy for us to accept, yup, it is just movies, but we do not see such a thing as being weird.

at work today a light over me went 'out', there was a crackly noise, then a brief almost blink your eyes to miss it, glare of light then woosh, it was out.

My decent laptop, when it died, there was a crackling sound, then sparks out one of those holes on the side you plug things in to recharge it, it seemed to surge in electricity to spark.. then woosh, smoke and my poor baby was gone.

anyways, i see this as an easy thing to believe, the brain is like a computer, it can peter out and die, or maybe due to some kind  of genetics or something, it sparks in the end, sparks here and there and crackles in itself then if the brain/body is not somehow revived, just whooshes out and died.
I think you would have a point if NDEs were also random images and scenarios. Most NDEd follow a pattern that is perfectly consistent with what one might expect if there is an afterlife.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#29    ReaperS_ParadoX

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 03:49 PM

View PostThe Word of Thoth, on 13 August 2013 - 09:38 AM, said:

Ever tried DMT.........?

http://www.drugs-for...ead.php?t=68515
I read somewhere  that all NDE are is your brain dumping huge amounts of DMT, and DMT is a natural chemical your body makes but its in such minute amounts that, you don't experience the effects like you would in a huge dose.

Edited by R4z3rsPar4d0x, 15 August 2013 - 03:54 PM.

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#30    White Crane Feather

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 07:09 PM

View PostR4z3rsPar4d0x, on 15 August 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:


I read somewhere  that all NDE are is your brain dumping huge amounts of DMT, and DMT is a natural chemical your body makes but its in such minute amounts that, you don't experience the effects like you would in a huge dose.
Yes. DMT is associated with conscious experience. The funny thing is that its found in nearly every living thing and very high ( relatively speaking ) concentrations in organism that are considered teachers by traditional people's.

Something to think about.



"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-




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