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why is homophobia commonplace?


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#271    Frank Merton

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 04:11 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 14 March 2013 - 04:03 PM, said:


This is completely incorrect. These mannerism are picked up on as a cultural trait for gay men, they are not inherent. Nor are they feminine, I don't know any women who act like that, and there are plenty of gay men that do not display them.
I'm not sure that's right.  In Vietnam you see effeminate men much as you do in the States, and this is a different culture, one where homoerotic behavior is pretty much the norm until one gets married (or at least was -- the barriers to pre-marital sex have largely disappeared in the cities and with it the homoerotic stuff).

Most homosexual men are not effeminate, but the fact is some are.  At least in some cases the two go together.


#272    White Crane Feather

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 04:28 PM

From what I have gathered being gay is not a choice in most cases, nor have I seen any evidence of it being a genetic or early childhood or prenatal agdrogen related. The only evidence for early childhood psychology I have seen is that gay men above the statistical norm tend to have brothers, but this says nothing about gay women. I think we are dealing with and discussing a multifauceted human condition pretty much like any other.

Being "homophobic" or harboring negative attitudes to words a group of people seems to be inherently self centered.

I am one of those that find the prospect of to guys kissing undesirable while the prospect of two beautiful women kissing fascinating. But I am attracted to women, I suppose it would be opposite for a gay man. I think the important thing is the live and let live rule. I may not like watching gay guys kiss, but I will be the first to stand up even fight for their right to do so... But that comes with limits aswell. I do not appreciate the flaunting of sexuality in public or parades and an attempt to influence other peoples beliefs based on ones own from either camp. Please  mind your own business and leave other people to their own lives choices and beliefs. It's not really that hard.  I understand why gay people fight as they do, I also understand why the right feels like they are attacked. I say just drop it and worry about yourself. You will be much happier.

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#273    White Crane Feather

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 04:37 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 14 March 2013 - 04:11 PM, said:

I'm not sure that's right.  In Vietnam you see effeminate men much as you do in the States, and this is a different culture, one where homoerotic behavior is pretty much the norm until one gets married (or at least was -- the barriers to pre-marital sex have largely disappeared in the cities and with it the homoerotic stuff).

Most homosexual men are not effeminate, but the fact is some are.  At least in some cases the two go together.
Right!!  There is no corolation here. Some are effeminate some are not. It's obviously something they picked up somewhere not some psychological abnormality.

I actually asked a gay man about it one time. he said that as he became to accept he was gay and come out, he started to spend more time in the gay culture and picking up on the mannerism. It was a straight forward conversation. Some people are just like that. My wife spent two weeks in Canada and to my shock came back with a slight Canadian accent. Physical manerisms are really just a part of communication. It's just a body language accent. My brother in law is not gay, but has a gay older brother. The poor guy unbeknown to him has some "gay" mannerisms. No one has the heart to tell him. But I have been asked if he is gay or not. He is not.

Edited by Seeker79, 14 March 2013 - 04:38 PM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
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#274    Heaven Is A Halfpipe

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 04:42 PM

"why is homophobia commonplace?"

Because the big man in the sky said its evil, duh! :whistle:

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#275    White Crane Feather

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 04:47 PM

View PostThe Skater Boy, on 14 March 2013 - 04:42 PM, said:

"why is homophobia commonplace?"

Because the big man in the sky said its evil, duh! :whistle:
Now there is the real elephant in the room. Nice job. 🐘

Edited by Seeker79, 14 March 2013 - 04:49 PM.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#276    ciriuslea

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 05:11 PM

I think people have a right to be homophobic, what they don't however is to discriminate or violate others rights because of it. I would go as far to say homophobia is far more widespread than we are led to believe, only the PC brigade hasn't much changed attitudes towards gays but taught people to keep their nasty bigoted opinions to themselves. I assume homophobia is like all other sexual deviancy (if I can describe it as such) to a straight person, and being more straight people? its no wonder homophobia is commonplace, A repulsion to paedophillia is also common place perhaps similar to bestiality, OK what two consenting adults do in the bedroom is their business and cant be compared to bestiality and Peadophillia but it doesn't stop people being repulsed by it, that was an eg maybe a bit extreme but there you go,  I find no attraction in the male body so to see two males having sex repulses me it has nothing to do with inherited bigotry or religious indoctrination, does that make me a homophobic ?


#277    Frank Merton

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 05:15 PM

Revulsions only harm those suffering from the revulsion.  They need to get over it for their own good -- either get over it or avoid thinking about it (good luck on that one).


#278    ciriuslea

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 05:53 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 14 March 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:

They need to get over it for their own good
  I think that's where a lot of problems start in society is when people start assuming whats best for other people, as for the rest of your comment I'll ignore as It stinks of butthurt


#279    RedSquirrel

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 07:06 PM

I'd like to chime in, only to share a basic story of a 'bigot'... Me from the past.

I grew up in a fairly religious household but was raised to view humans as humans. Accept them, no matter their "differences".
In my teen years, I became exceedingly homophobic. Yes, to the point where I was fearful of them. I believe it stemmed from my inability to understand their life. I still cannot wrap my head around being attracted to men. I hardly know how women can handle it.

As I grew older, my fear became a hatred. I blamed them for my uneasy feelings. It's easy to turn fear to hate. Then I learned a secret.

I thought I was attractive. I thought they would hit on me, causing me to not be able to express myself. I had a social phobia of the unknown.
Ever hear a guy say "I'm o.k. with gays, but they even hit on me and I'll deck 'em", or "They better keep their hands off my butt"? That was me. I lied to myself, thinking that I would attract them, because "Hey, I'm a good looking guy" (I have since learned that no, I am nothing special).

Then, in my mid 20's, it happened. I got hit on by a guy.
He was a fairly 'normal' looking business man, he was smart, kind and charming. I did not know he was hitting on me, until he asked if I wanted to get a coffee.

It was at that moment, I lost my irrational fear. I thought they'd be more aggressive. I declined, explaining that I was not into guys. He laughed and wished me a good day.
Not all gay people are like him, or my lady friends that have a more successful relationship than any of my straight friends. I know there are bad gays and good gays... just like straights.  My religion may frown on it, may have rules against it. I do not though.

I may be a heretic, but I believe that love for your fellow human (no matter their color, age, sexual orientation, religion or voting stance) is more important than any other rule.

Yeah, I used to be a homophobe. Now I'm just me. I still don't get it, but it isn't mine to get.



Sorry if this is rambling or not making sense, I struggle to express myself at times.

TL;DR:  I used to be a homophobe (fear kind, then hatred), until I got over my own bull. Now I just don't care about sexual orientation.

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#280    shadowhive

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 07:32 PM

View Postciriuslea, on 14 March 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

I think people have a right to be homophobic, what they don't however is to discriminate or violate others rights because of it. I would go as far to say homophobia is far more widespread than we are led to believe, only the PC brigade hasn't much changed attitudes towards gays but taught people to keep their nasty bigoted opinions to themselves. I assume homophobia is like all other sexual deviancy (if I can describe it as such) to a straight person, and being more straight people? its no wonder homophobia is commonplace, A repulsion to paedophillia is also common place perhaps similar to bestiality, OK what two consenting adults do in the bedroom is their business and cant be compared to bestiality and Peadophillia but it doesn't stop people being repulsed by it, that was an eg maybe a bit extreme but there you go,  I find no attraction in the male body so to see two males having sex repulses me it has nothing to do with inherited bigotry or religious indoctrination, does that make me a homophobic ?

You know what I find odd? The revulsion thing. I find it extremely odd. Don't like gay sex? Well that's fine, nothing wrong there. Like you mention, what two people get up to in their bedrooms is no one's buisness (as long as it's consentual of course). Yet those that feel repulsed by it? They seem to go mad about it. Like whenever they see a gay person, the thought turns to the type of sex they have. It's crazy and seems to borderline an obsession that is, to be honest, creepy.

When I go out, if I see a couple that I'm not attracted to, my mind doesn't immediately leap to them having sex. So why does it with people that seem to be repulsed by gay sex?

Like Frank said, it's their hang up. If their mind leaps to sex whenever they're around a gay person that is very much their problem, not the ga persons and it's something they need to get over.

If I am repulsed by something, I try my best not to think about it, not do what those repulsed by gay sex seem to do which seems to be the exact opposite. ie I'm repulsed by the taste of chicken. Do I think about it? Nope, not at all. Do I bother other people that actually like chicken? Nope.

Edited by shadowhive, 14 March 2013 - 07:35 PM.

So just take off that disguise, everyone knows that you're only, pretty on the outside
Where are those droideka?
No one can tell you who you are
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#281    shadowhive

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 07:34 PM

View PostRedSquirrel, on 14 March 2013 - 07:06 PM, said:

Sorry if this is rambling or not making sense, I struggle to express myself at times.

TL;DR:  I used to be a homophobe (fear kind, then hatred), until I got over my own bull. Now I just don't care about sexual orientation.

It seems you've matured and grown a lot, which is a very good thing. :tu:

I think it's easy to project fear and hatred on a group if they're this... faceless unknown. But once you put a face to it, then you realise (as you did) that 'hey, they're not so different to me'.

So just take off that disguise, everyone knows that you're only, pretty on the outside
Where are those droideka?
No one can tell you who you are
"There's the trouble with fanatics. They're easy to manipulate, but somehow they take everything five steps too far."
"The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevent, it's what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are."

#282    ciriuslea

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 07:43 PM

View Postshadowhive, on 14 March 2013 - 07:32 PM, said:

You know what I find odd? The revulsion thing. I find it extremely odd. Don't like gay sex? Well that's fine, nothing wrong there. Like you mention, what two people get up to in their bedrooms is no one's buisness (as long as it's consentual of course). Yet those that feel repulsed by it? They seem to go mad about it. Like whenever they see a gay person, the thought turns to the type of sex they have. It's crazy and seems to borderline an obsession that is, to be honest, creepy.

When I go out, if I see a couple that I'm not attracted to, my mind doesn't immediately leap to them having sex. So why does it with people that seem to be repulsed by gay sex?

Like Frank said, it's their hang up. If their mind leaps to sex whenever they're around a gay person that is very much their problem, not the ga persons and it's something they need to get over.

If I am repulsed by something, I try my best not to think about it, not do what those repulsed by gay sex seem to do which seems to be the exact opposite.
I can only comment on how I feel, I'm not going mad nor have an obsession about 'it' I'm offering an opinion, I tried to elaborate on my initial statement being people have a right to be 'homophobic', perhaps rambling on a little, but basically as I see it, in some cases if you don't 'like', or 'agree' with  homosexuality your a homophobe, which I find ridiculous.

Edited by ciriuslea, 14 March 2013 - 07:50 PM.


#283    shadowhive

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 07:51 PM

View Postciriuslea, on 14 March 2013 - 07:43 PM, said:

I can only comment on how I feel, I'm not going mad nor have an obsession about 'it' I'm offering an opinion, I tried to elaborate on my initial statement being people have a right to be homophobic, perhaps rambling on a little, but basically as I see it, in some cases if you don't 'like', or 'agree' with  homosexuality your a homophobe, which I find ridiculous.

I was speaking more generally about people that are repulsed by it.

However, as to the last part, I don't find it ridiculous at all. If I said I don't agree with black people being black would I not immediately (and rightly) by labelled a rascist? Same if I said I didn't like black people because they were black. It wouldn't be ridiculous to call me rascist for holding those beliefs. So why is it 'ridiculous' to be called homophobic for doing the same thing only to gay people? Especially if that view turns into a will to marginalise those people.

So just take off that disguise, everyone knows that you're only, pretty on the outside
Where are those droideka?
No one can tell you who you are
"There's the trouble with fanatics. They're easy to manipulate, but somehow they take everything five steps too far."
"The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevent, it's what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are."

#284    ciriuslea

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 08:13 PM

View Postshadowhive, on 14 March 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

I was speaking more generally about people that are repulsed by it.

However, as to the last part, I don't find it ridiculous at all. If I said I don't agree with black people being black would I not immediately (and rightly) by labelled a rascist? Same if I said I didn't like black people because they were black. It wouldn't be ridiculous to call me rascist for holding those beliefs. So why is it 'ridiculous' to be called homophobic for doing the same thing only to gay people? Especially if that view turns into a will to marginalise those people.
I never said anything about not liking gay people or gay people being gay, I think this is a common mistake and one a lot of people assume which is part of why I think when people state they don't like or are repulsed by homosexuality people automatically pull the homophobe card.

But I have to concede this is more often the case, people do discriminate and violently sometimes based on sexual orientation


#285    shadowhive

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Posted 14 March 2013 - 08:19 PM

View Postciriuslea, on 14 March 2013 - 08:13 PM, said:

I never said anything about not liking gay people or gay people being gay, I think this is a common mistake and one a lot of people assume which is part of why I think when people state they don't like or are repulsed by homosexuality people automatically pull the homophobe card.

But I have to concede this is more often the case, people do discriminate and violently sometimes based on sexual orientation

Sadly it's often the case and thats the problem. It's something that needs to be dealt with and thats why it's got a name that's used against it.

I wouldn't say you were a homophobe if you didn't like the thought of gay sex. I'd say you were if you took the steps after that. To use the exmple I used in the other post, there's nothing wrong with me not liking the taste of chicken, but if I started acting in a manner that homophobes did then yes, it would become a problem.

Ultimately it's like anything else really. You don't have to like gay sex anymore than I have to like eating chicken. But if you start acting like a 5 year old, encourage violence against gay people or think about gay sex all the time, then you really have a problem and th problem is yours alone (speaking generally).

So just take off that disguise, everyone knows that you're only, pretty on the outside
Where are those droideka?
No one can tell you who you are
"There's the trouble with fanatics. They're easy to manipulate, but somehow they take everything five steps too far."
"The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevent, it's what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are."




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