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Annaleise Michel


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#16    Alienated Being

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 06:02 PM

View PostSimbi Laveau, on 16 April 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

She would repeatedly slam her knees into the floor,and her head into the wall,in religious prostration.
According to what I have read, her family was quite religious. I do not see how this has anything to do with demonic possession.

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She was initially given seizure meds,but her tests showed no legitimate seizure activity,and her parents I think,decided to stop giving her the meds.Id probably have done the same thing.
If she was given seizure meds, then she was obviously experiencing seizures. I want the conclusive, irrefutable documents indicating that no legitimate seizure activity was involved.

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She did this to herself.
In a tainted state of mind, yes.

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They tried to feed her,she refused.They tried to stop her from hurting herself,she couldn't be stopped.
Psychosis can definitely lead you to do very odd things.

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Given her severe,self inflicted cachetia,her having a fever and pneumonia,are no surprise.
If she wouldn't eat,and had to be restrained half the time,how do you think she would have responded to meds or an IV infusion.
Exactly. She died from complications involving the conditions that she had been diagnosed with - fever, pneumonia, malnourishment, etc. I believe in psychological dysfunction, not "possession".


#17    _Only

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 06:38 PM

View PostOffeiriad, on 16 April 2012 - 02:45 PM, said:

I don't see any pics on this thread and no one forced you to respond with a link to the photos in question.

It was a joke. I'm glad I helped them find pictures, at the risk of my own fears.

View PostHerNibs, on 16 April 2012 - 03:58 PM, said:

Wasn't she also diagnosed with seizures as well?

I always find this horribly sad.  I think she was just a mentally and physically ill young woman.

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Which isn't any less scary, I think.

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#18    HerNibs

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 06:41 PM

View Post_Only, on 16 April 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

It was a joke. I'm glad I helped them find pictures, at the risk of my own fears.



Which isn't any less scary, I think.


I agree, it's still scary but I firmly believe that giving up on medical treatment made it all worse.

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#19    _Only

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 06:51 PM

Yeah, it seems mental illness covered all of the people involved in taking care of her in one form or another, letting that situation play out and end in the way it did.

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#20    *Frank*

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 07:20 PM

View PostSimbi Laveau, on 16 April 2012 - 03:14 AM, said:

They are horrible photos,and playing the audio tapes of her,are dangerous,in my opinion .
Don't look ,is my suggestion.

I've just listened to a few of them for the first time. Guess I'll see how 'dangerous' they are.

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#21    Simbi Laveau

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 08:24 PM

View PostAlienated Being, on 16 April 2012 - 06:02 PM, said:

According to what I have read, her family was quite religious. I do not see how this has anything to do with demonic possession.


If she was given seizure meds, then she was obviously experiencing seizures. I want the conclusive, irrefutable documents indicating that no legitimate seizure activity was involved.


In a tainted state of mind, yes.


Psychosis can definitely lead you to do very odd things.


Exactly. She died from complications involving the conditions that she had been diagnosed with - fever, pneumonia, malnourishment, etc. I believe in psychological dysfunction, not "possession".
This prostration was after her possession,and she stopped eating.
When i say slammed,I mean SLAMMED.This was all part of the self imposed abuse.

She hurt herself badly.You know those photos with the black eyes,and she skeletal.
Yeah those.She did it all.No priest or parent did it.
She wasn't taking pcp to get her abnormal strength.

She would listen to no one,do nothing anyone told her to do.
She wouldn't take meds,or eat.How is this her parents fault ?
Even if they psyched her,and had feeding tubes put in at a hospital,the result would have been the same.

View Post*Frank*, on 16 April 2012 - 07:20 PM, said:

I've just listened to a few of them for the first time. Guess I'll see how 'dangerous' they are.
Lots of luck ! :devil:

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#22    _Only

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Posted 16 April 2012 - 09:36 PM

View Post*Frank*, on 16 April 2012 - 07:20 PM, said:

I've just listened to a few of them for the first time. Guess I'll see how 'dangerous' they are.

Should have been dangerous to your emotions sympathetically.

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#23    Spky777

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 01:48 AM

I've heard part of the tapes and its screaming and pain.  I heard that the voices actually talk to themselves, but this is also possible in multiple personalities.  I wonder if these voices in Anna actually knew a whole different language or they had knowledge of past history that Anna didn't know.
Witnesses say that she was "thrown on the ground."  Psychiatrists assert that there was something extraordinary.
I wonder if anyone has other evidence about her to show that it was a spiritual struggle.


#24    Cotton

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 03:56 AM

View PostSimbi Laveau, on 16 April 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

She didn't have seizures,and she REFUSED to eat.
She would repeatedly slam her knees into the floor,and her head into the wall,in religious prostration.
She was initially given seizure meds,but her tests showed no legitimate seizure activity,and her parents I think,decided to stop giving her the meds.Id probably have done the same thing.
She did this to herself.
They tried to feed her,she refused.They tried to stop her from hurting herself,she couldn't be stopped.
Given her severe,self inflicted cachetia,her having a fever and pneumonia,are no surprise.
If she wouldn't eat,and had to be restrained half the time,how do you think she would have responded to meds or an IV infusion.

Yes,I absolutely believe in possession.She was possessed in my opinion.
Her grave is actually a shrine to Catholics,because she fought the devil on her own terms,and in a way,died for god.

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If you don't,or have never seen it with your own eyes,no way to actually comment about it.


I pretty much agree entirely!


#25    Dis Pater

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 05:23 AM

View PostSensible Logic, on 16 April 2012 - 05:54 PM, said:

1. How great your medical knowledge must be that you can deduce after the fact and with no chance of examination that she didn't have seizures even though doctors who did examine her came to that conclusion.

2. Most of this done during the 67 exorcisms.  When she could no longer rise to her feet, her parents so kindly pulled her up off the floor so she could drop to her knees again and again and again.

3. I have found nothing to indicate that tests showed she had no seizures.  Early on she attributed holy symbols as being one of the causes of her possession and developed an aversion to them.  On a pilgrimage in 1975 she refused to pass one of those symbols and the woman with her decided she was possessed.  A local exorcist came to the same conclusion based on the same information and this is what prompted her parents to stop her medication not any clinical diagnoses.

4. No she had help, lots of help from the church and her parents.

5. They never had her hospitalized for this which would have kept her from dehydration, starvation and would have allowed treatment for her pneumonia.

6. Can't find the definition of cachetia

7. So because she wouldn't respond well it was OK to withhold meds and an I.V.?  It's a good thing you're not a doctor.

No she wasn't possessed as we can see from the fact she had 67 exorcisms that did absolutely nothing.  In the end, religious belief got in the way of her being taken to a hospital for treatment of her physical problems (malnutrition, dehydration and pneumonia.)  When religion outweighs medical treatment it becomes dangerous belief.


I think she meant Cachexia which is Wasting Syndrome.Any illness that makes you lose weight whilst not dieting is Cachexia-emphasis on illness and not possession.

Edited by Dis Pater, 17 April 2012 - 05:26 AM.


#26    schizoidwoman

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 08:29 AM

View PostHerNibs, on 16 April 2012 - 03:58 PM, said:

Wasn't she also diagnosed with seizures as well?

I always find this horribly sad.  I think she was just a mentally and physically ill young woman.

Nibs

I have to agree with you; it reminds me of when I was a caseworker in the Midlands, dealing with people with serious psychological conditions on a regular basis.

One of our clients repeatedly and seriously self-harmed, refused to eat and had a distinct second personality, apparently that of the person/entity who was possessing him (and would occasionally write letters to our office!).  He believed that his problem was spiritual so refused to seek medical help. The intervention of his parents eventually caused him to be sectioned, which stalled the process of self-starvation long enough for him to be diagnosed with schizophrenia and put into a very lengthy period of treatment before he was able to return home.

His family was a religious one (though his church repeatedly urged him to seek medical attention) and they did various blessings and went to church counselling but none of these approaches helped. I know how difficult it was for his family to intervene and having someone sectioned is never an easy decision, but it very probably saved his life.  He'll always be dealing with his condition but had he been left to his own devices and allowed to deal with the "possession" in his own way, he wouldn't have survived at all.


#27    Sensible Logic

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 05:29 PM

View PostSimbi Laveau, on 16 April 2012 - 08:24 PM, said:

This prostration was after her possession,and she stopped eating.
When i say slammed,I mean SLAMMED.This was all part of the self imposed abuse.

She hurt herself badly.You know those photos with the black eyes,and she skeletal.
Yeah those.She did it all.No priest or parent did it.
She wasn't taking pcp to get her abnormal strength.

She would listen to no one,do nothing anyone told her to do.
She wouldn't take meds,or eat.How is this her parents fault ?
Even if they psyched her,and had feeding tubes put in at a hospital,the result would have been the same.

It was self imposed abuse that her parents helped with.  With no strength to rise to her feet her parents pulled her off the floor so she could drop to the floor again and again and again.  Without her parents help she would not have been able to continue doing that.  They helped her hurt herself.

Regardless of her age (I think she was 23 or 24) her parents and the priests that were there had an obligation to take care of her.  When she wouldn't eat or drink they should have put her in the hospital to receive treatment above any objections she may have had.  When she developed pneumonia they should have rushed her to the hospital.

She died, not from demons, not from self inflicted injuries but from malnutrition, dehydration and pneumonia.  The priests and especially her parents willful refusal to seek proper medical treatment for those conditions makes them ultimately responsible for her death.

To believe that even if she went to the hospital the results would have been the same, is thinking from the dark ages.

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#28    Spky777

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Posted 17 May 2012 - 01:19 AM

Medication and the spiritual conflict here.  Just the mere presence of Jesus was enough to drive away bad things, but in today's modern times, pills and treatments are usually enough.  How can it be possible what this girl went through is not real?





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