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Traits of Socialism


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#136    Stellar

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 02:53 AM

View Postaztek, on 14 January 2013 - 02:06 AM, said:

lol, i knew you'd say it

And he's correct in saying so. I don't see why socialism would automatically mean big government...

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#137    aztek

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:03 AM

View PostStellar, on 14 January 2013 - 02:53 AM, said:

And he's correct in saying so. I don't see why socialism would automatically mean big government...

lol, you don't see?? than look around, lol, or read history.

show me 1 example of small socialist gvmnt

Edited by aztek, 14 January 2013 - 03:04 AM.

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#138    Stellar

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 03:18 AM

View Postaztek, on 14 January 2013 - 03:03 AM, said:

lol, you don't see?? than look around, lol, or read history.

show me 1 example of small socialist gvmnt

Show me one example of small capitalist government.

What do you even define as small government exactly? And even if there are none, it doesn't mean that the government is big BECAUSE of socialism.

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#139    Gromdor

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 05:14 AM

Well, Laos and Turkmenistan both have mostly state-controlled economies and have a smaller government cost based off their GDP compared to the US.  If that is what you are using to measure the size of government.  They are both have less people working for the government than the US as well.  The smallest socialist government I have seen is me and my wife concerning the refrigerator.  We both contribute to the refrigerator what we can and take what we need.


#140    RavenHawk

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 04:23 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 13 January 2013 - 11:29 PM, said:

View Postaztek, on 13 January 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:

socialism = big gvmnt.

gvmnt big enough to give you everything you need, is also strong enough to take everything you  have.

Wrong.
Wrong.  

First of all, ‘big gvmnt here does not mean size in number of employees or programs.  It means having more and more power over the people.

Given that, that is indeed what Socialism is.  You still haven’t answered the other question, can you answer this one?  I refer back to the definition of Socialism presented earlier in the thread.  If an individual is abundant in something (i.e. more than anyone else), then according to that definition, it must be redistributed for the benefit of all?

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#141    RavenHawk

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 04:26 PM

View PostStellar, on 14 January 2013 - 02:53 AM, said:

And he's correct in saying so. I don't see why socialism would automatically mean big government...
How else would you see to social equality if the government isn’t used to redistribute the wealth of individuals for the benefit of all?

Edited by RavenHawk, 14 January 2013 - 04:27 PM.

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#142    aztek

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 04:31 PM

View PostStellar, on 14 January 2013 - 03:18 AM, said:

Show me one example of small capitalist government.

What do you even define as small government exactly? And even if there are none, it doesn't mean that the government is big BECAUSE of socialism.
we are talking about socialistic gvmt. not capitalictic,  don't jump off, and evade.
you said, if it is  sociaslist gvmt doesn't mean it is big, i ask you to show me real world example of small socialist gvmt. cuz i know you dead wrong. i lived in socialistic country for some time, i know frsthand what socialist gvmnt is, you don't. but i'm sure you strongly belive otherwise.

Edited by aztek, 14 January 2013 - 04:34 PM.

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#143    Stellar

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 05:17 PM

View Postaztek, on 14 January 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

we are talking about socialistic gvmt. not capitalictic,  don't jump off, and evade.
you said, if it is  sociaslist gvmt doesn't mean it is big, i ask you to show me real world example of small socialist gvmt. cuz i know you dead wrong. i lived in socialistic country for some time, i know frsthand what socialist gvmnt is, you don't. but i'm sure you strongly belive otherwise.

Aztek, I don't even believe you have the intellectual capacity to understand the practical differences between "sociaslist and capitalictic" governments. Maybe we could carry out an intellectual argument when you can at least bother to properly spell the terms you are debating.

Edited by Stellar, 14 January 2013 - 05:18 PM.

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#144    AsteroidX

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 05:20 PM

In a population over 300milion people some form of socialism has to exist. Or you will have to endure people starving to death.


#145    Br Cornelius

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 05:42 PM

View PostRavenHawk, on 14 January 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

Wrong.  

First of all, 'big gvmnt here does not mean size in number of employees or programs.  It means having more and more power over the people.

Given that, that is indeed what Socialism is.  You still haven't answered the other question, can you answer this one?  I refer back to the definition of Socialism presented earlier in the thread.  If an individual is abundant in something (i.e. more than anyone else), then according to that definition, it must be redistributed for the benefit of all?
I supplied the definition of socialism - you refused to accept it insisting that Government equates to socialism. You made a fundamental mistake in defining what socialism actually was in your opening post. I pointed out your mistake - end off.

Despite what you may believe, neither the USA or the EU is socialist in nature (they are strongly Capitalist and Neo-liberal and elitist) and yet they have a range of interventions which exceeds what many social democratic countries have. Social programs are only tolerated to the extent that they insulate the elites from social disturbance.
If you cannot get your basic definitions right, you are incapable of engaging in a conversation about the nuances of government.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 14 January 2013 - 05:47 PM.

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#146    aztek

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 07:31 PM

View PostStellar, on 14 January 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

Aztek, I don't even believe you have the intellectual capacity to understand the practical differences between "sociaslist and capitalictic" governments. Maybe we could carry out an intellectual argument when you can at least bother to properly spell the terms you are debating.
lol, i feel the same way about you. i really think my dog sees thing clearer than you,  but that is not importatnt, neither of us gives a damn.
so, back to topic.  show me 1 example of small socialist gvmnt. that is all i asked, 1 example 5 posts ago. and you still can't give me one.

Edited by aztek, 14 January 2013 - 07:54 PM.

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#147    Yamato

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 08:08 PM

We have neither a capitalist system nor a socialist system; but we do have both capitalistic traits and socialistic traits.   I believe the gaping chasm of difference between these traits within our system is an important topic for good, honest debate.  

If Ravenhawk would eat his own cooking with foreign policy as well as domestic, I could find some real agreement with him/her.

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#148    aztek

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 09:26 PM

View PostAsteroidX, on 14 January 2013 - 05:20 PM, said:

In a population over 300milion people some form of socialism has to exist. Or you will have to endure people starving to death.
and we do, planty of it, it is called welfare, food stamps.... and i'm sure there is planty of other programms.

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#149    THE MATRIX

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 09:33 PM

I find it funny with the utmost hilarity when Tea Partiers crow about socialism but when it comes to corporate welfare and the wallstreet bailout they remain silent. I guess its their own ideal delusions of what a free market system is.


#150    RavenHawk

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 09:51 PM

View PostTHE MATRIX, on 14 January 2013 - 09:33 PM, said:

I find it funny with the utmost hilarity when Tea Partiers crow about socialism but when it comes to corporate welfare and the wallstreet bailout they remain silent. I guess its their own ideal delusions of what a free market system is.
The TEA Partiers I know screamed at the top of their lungs over corporate welfare and the wallstreet bailout.

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