DMT

[UziStuNNa1]

Hello everyone,

Have you all ever heard of the drug DMT (Dimethyltryptamine)? I have heard that it is a naturally occurring neurotransmitter in the brain which causes dreams at night. Large doses of DMT are also flooded to the brain during a near-death experience, with testimonies from different people about weird hallucinations while bordering the line between life and death.

Are there any notable studies to show the physiological responses in the different areas of the brain, mainly the hippocampus?

[Mattshark]

Hello everyone,

Have you all ever heard of the drug DMT (Dimethyltryptamine)? I have heard that it is a naturally occurring neurotransmitter in the brain which causes dreams at night. Large doses of DMT are also flooded to the brain during a near-death experience, with testimonies from different people about weird hallucinations while bordering the line between life and death.

Are there any notable studies to show the physiological responses in the different areas of the brain, mainly the hippocampus?

Nope, it is all untested hypothesis.

[darkbreed]

It is an interesting chemical found in most biological life forms, and often used in spiritual rituals by shamans such as during Ayahuasca rituals. I have to agree that it is indeed a very interesting chemical, and it does seem to be a possible link between people and spiritual experiences. Personally I think it may be the chemical that is released for us to be able to get into the correct state of mind and experience the spiritual world while still in physical incarnation.

A new documentary about it is coming soon, called DMT: The Spirit Molecule which is based on the work of Rick Strassman, there are some clips of the documentary as well as related videos at http://www.youtube.com/results?search_quer..._type=&aq=f

Another documentary specifically about the natives use of Ayahuasca is also available and called Shamans of the Amazon, http://www.youtube.com/results?search_quer..._type=&aq=f

You may also find this audio interview with Graham Hancock and his theories about DMT at http://www.youtube.com/results?search_quer..._type=&aq=f

Both fascinating and quite interesting, and I'm planning to research this some more myself along with a movie producer whom I've planned to make a documentary with in the Amazons.

[Godsnmbr1]

I personally found Strassman's work to be a bit lacking in factual content. He has a lot of interesting ideas but it's more or less just him spitballing about what possibly could be. If you want to read some very interesting accounts of DMT use, along with practically every other type of psychedelic, check out Daniel Pinchbeck's books. Yes, he might be a bit crazy but he's also very informative.

The most interesting aspect to DMT, at least to me, is the fact that a high % of the people who use it have similar experiences involving metaphysical "beings". Similar appearances, similar messages, etc. I'm beyond convinced that our minds are a doorway to a different reality and I love reading about the different experiences that people have once they've gone through.

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

I personally found Strassman's work to be a bit lacking in factual content. He has a lot of interesting ideas but it's more or less just him spitballing about what possibly could be. If you want to read some very interesting accounts of DMT use, along with practically every other type of psychedelic, check out Daniel Pinchbeck's books. Yes, he might be a bit crazy but he's also very informative.

The most interesting aspect to DMT, at least to me, is the fact that a high % of the people who use it have similar experiences involving metaphysical "beings". Similar appearances, similar messages, etc. I'm beyond convinced that our minds are a doorway to a different reality and I love reading about the different experiences that people have once they've gone through.

I had a doctor friend of mine that did it. He said he kind of freaked because it was so intense. I would love to have a spiritual experience but to loose total control is too scary for me.

[Mattshark]

I personally found Strassman's work to be a bit lacking in factual content. He has a lot of interesting ideas but it's more or less just him spitballing about what possibly could be. If you want to read some very interesting accounts of DMT use, along with practically every other type of psychedelic, check out Daniel Pinchbeck's books. Yes, he might be a bit crazy but he's also very informative.

The most interesting aspect to DMT, at least to me, is the fact that a high % of the people who use it have similar experiences involving metaphysical "beings". Similar appearances, similar messages, etc. I'm beyond convinced that our minds are a doorway to a different reality and I love reading about the different experiences that people have once they've gone through.

Or it could simply affect neural pathways causing you to see things that are not there.

[Godsnmbr1]

Or it could simply affect neural pathways causing you to see things that are not there.

Of course it's a lot easier to simply deny the possibility but I've everything I've read and experienced leads me to believe that the experiences are real. People think psychedelics only make people see things that aren't there but they don't understand that psychedelics also help us see things as they really are.

There aren't many people who have had the experiences and then decided that it was only in their head. Some things are just impossible to deny.

[Mattshark]

Of course it's a lot easier to simply deny the possibility but I've everything I've read and experienced leads me to believe that the experiences are real. People think psychedelics only make people see things that aren't there but they don't understand that psychedelics also help us see things as they really are.

There aren't many people who have had the experiences and then decided that it was only in their head. Some things are just impossible to deny.

No psychedelics are neurotoxins and have affect the neurolgy of the user. You are merely speculating based of extremely biased unscientific writing. In the long run psychedelics lead to brain and memory degradation (I have posted papers showing this, feel free to look them up).

It is very possible to deny when you have better understanding.

Edited December 8, 2008 by Mattshark

[UziStuNNa1]

Of course it's a lot easier to simply deny the possibility but I've everything I've read and experienced leads me to believe that the experiences are real. People think psychedelics only make people see things that aren't there but they don't understand that psychedelics also help us see things as they really are.

But think about people suffering from schizophrenia, when they have hallucinations, it isn't just like a translucent image of something, it's actually real to them. The hallucinations can be very excruciating. I was watching a documentary of my teacher speaking to a woman suffering from schizophrenia. At all times during the day, except while sleeping, this woman saw 4-5 evil, robed monks that would constantly shout nasty things at her: "You're no good, kill yourself, you're fat..." etc. She also would sometimes see blood dripping down from others' faces. Also, during the conversation, she stopped because she thought there was a ticker on the top of her forehead that wrote out all of her thoughts, so she thought my Professor was actually reading her mind. This just goes to show that any visual or mental hallucination can seem to be just as real as you or me.

These symptoms of schizophrenia are not how life really is, they are merely a degradation of the brain causing a serious mental illness. A psychedelic trip can be seen as the same, if you must.

Edited December 13, 2008 by UziStuNNa1

[Mattshark]

But think about people suffering from schizophrenia, when they have hallucinations, it isn't just like a translucent image of something, it's actually real to them. The hallucinations can be very excruciating. I was watching a documentary of my teacher speaking to a woman suffering from schizophrenia, the woman saw 4-5 evil, robed monks that would constantly shout nasty things at her: "You're no good, kill yourself, you're fat..." etc. She also would sometimes see blood dripping down from others' faces. This just goes to show that any visual or mental hallucination can seem to be just as real as you or me.

These symptoms of schizophrenia are not how life really is, they are merely a degradation of the brain causing a serious mental illness. A psychedelic trip can be seen as the same, if you must.

Exactly, it is you mind releasing different chemicals and neurons over working and reacting to things that are not there and psychedelics are known nuerotoxin and have been linked to brain degradation.

People just like to think that their drug abuse somehow makes them better and more intelligent.

[UziStuNNa1]

Yes, but there is a difference in dabbling in a drug and abusing a drug. Using DMT is not something people will be abusing. I can definitely see this as being an eye-opener and a huge spiritual enlightener.

On the other hand, schizophrenia is the causality of either too much or too little neurological activity, with excess activity causing positive symptoms such as hallucinations, and too little activity causing negative symptoms, like poor speech. Now for negative symptoms, another cause is from the deterioration of the brain, in which there are no treatments for.

[Mattshark]

Yes, but there is a difference in dabbling in a drug and abusing a drug. Using DMT is not something people will be abusing. I can definitely see this as being an eye-opener and a huge spiritual enlightener.

On the other hand, schizophrenia is the causality of either too much or too little neurological activity, with excess activity causing positive symptoms such as hallucinations, and too little activity causing negative symptoms, like poor speech. Now for negative symptoms, another cause is from the deterioration of the brain, in which there are no treatments for.

That is debatable and any 'spiritual' effect would be a product of its effects as neurotoxin.

[AlexG]

That is debatable and any 'spiritual' effect would be a product of its effects as neurotoxin.

It seems that all you have to do to become spiritually enlightened is to screw up your neural chemistry.

[Mattshark]

It seems that all you have to do to become spiritually enlightened is to screw up your neural chemistry.

So does cyanide or brick to the head make you enlightened too?

[UziStuNNa1]

Shark, the flaw in your philosophy is that DMT is a naturally occurring substance that is found in plants and humans alike, so I don't see how you consider it a "neurotoxin". That would be more of a misnomer. It's effects actually rely on itself, as it is a neurotransmitter, just like dopamine and serotonin.

Edited December 13, 2008 by UziStuNNa1

[Mattshark]

Shark, the flaw in your philosophy is that DMT is a naturally occurring substance that is found in plants and humans alike, so I don't see how you consider it a "neurotoxin". That would be more of a misnomer. It's effects actually rely on itself, as it is a neurotransmitter, just like dopamine and serotonin.

So are many other rather dangerous substances you know like the naturally occurring strychnine and some animals produce tetradotoxin. The amount in humans is way below and psychotropic dose.

It is a nuerotoxin because it has neurotoxic effects.

How many naturally occurring deadly poisons should I list?

Hey hydrogen peroxide is produced in the human body so it can't be a poison!

Edited December 13, 2008 by Mattshark

[UziStuNNa1]

Again, you're wrong because we are talking about a neurotransmitter here. Neurotransmitters travel through a pre-synaptic neuron to a post-synaptic neuron. The post-synaptic neuron has receptor cells, and there are only so many of those, so the excess DMT would get reuptaked into the pre-synaptic neuron. It is NOT a "neurotoxin". DMT gets metabolized amazingly fast, which is why the trip lasts between 5-15 minutes. You can't say whether or not it's a neurotoxin, you have no proof...

Edited December 14, 2008 by UziStuNNa1

[BurnSide]

The interesting thing about DMT is that when we dream, for one, we produce it naturally in our brains in very large quantities, which is then subsequently re-absorbed. Possibly producing our dreams?

If anyone is interested in hearing a very clever and precise version of what taking this naturally forming entheogen is like, check out this brief interview with Joe Rogan, on youtube.

The strange thing is, all DMT users experience the same type of, well, 'trip'. Dubbed the 'Machine Elves', they seem to come in to contact with otherworldly beings. Friendly, it seems. Anyway, just take a listen. It's very good, Joe Rogan is a comedian, talk show host, and psychonaut.

I, personally, will never try DMT. The reason is simple. When we die, we produce a huge amount of DMT, which gives us this 'death trip'. Seeing white light and figures and all that.

I will not try DMT, because I do not want to ruin or screw up my death.

[eight bits]

I was unable to find a competent identification of DMT as a neurotransmitter. What I did find, unsurprisingly given its chemical similarity to serotonin (which is a neurotransmitter, as well as a hormone), is an identification of DMT as a serotonin antagonist and agonist.

http://cancerweb.ncl.ac.uk/cgi-bin/omd?N,N...ethyltryptamine

That would make DMT a "neurotransmitter agent," a category distinct from neurotransmitters. The jargon is an invitation to confusion.

Then again, if you are getting your pharmocological advice from a webhack who can't (or prefers not to) make the distinction ...?

As to neurotoxins,

http://cancerweb.ncl.ac.uk/cgi-bin/omd?Neurotoxins

"Toxic substances from microorganisms, plants or animals that interfere with the functions of the nervous system. most venoms contain neurotoxic substances. Myotoxins are included in this concept."

Sounds about right. The inability of a sighted person to see what is in front of them is an interference with a function of the nervous system.

Edited December 14, 2008 by eight bits

[jepeto]

So does cyanide or brick to the head make you enlightened too?

have you ever done dmt? I'm sure not so just shut******up till you have actually experienced it.

[BurnSide]

Wrong way to go about disagreeing, jepeto.

[jepeto]

Wrong way to go about disagreeing, jepeto.

True, that was harsh. I hate people speaking through their hat. You can't argue over something you never experience, it's like how can you talk about love if you have never loved. I was a little upset writing this post, sorry about that

[BurnSide]

I understand completely. I'm of the same mind, it's frustrating to hear people having a negative viewpoint of something they do not understand. However that's the nature of opinions right. They're like ***holes, everyone has one, and they're entitled to whatever comes out of it.

[Ziggy Stardust]

I have heard a lot about DMT and do believe that use of certain psychoactive substances with philosophical rather than recreational motivation can lead to spiritual revelations, or 'enlightening' experiences.

I have tried Peyote, and I daresay it was one of the most eye-opening experiences of my life. I did not hallucinate. I did not see 'lies' conjured by my mind. I saw things the way they truly are. I came to conclusions based on the futility of verbal expression, the inevitable 'oneness' of the universe, the necessary conglomeration of all things, the irrelevance of time, and the fundamental question which haunts us all; why?

Drugs like mescaline (the active ingredient of peyote) are outlawed because what is the point of living our earthly experience if we spend it in another reality? Just my two cents.

Edited December 14, 2008 by Ziggy Stardust

[BurnSide]

I find they are outlawed because they are not understood, or at very least missunderstood.

Yes, entheogens, or psychoactive substances, can be very dangerous. Incredibly dangerous if used incorrectly, and in the wrong context, etc. For this reason alone, I almost agree with the illegal nature of the subject matter. But at the same time, these substances were used by the ancients (blanket term to refer to ancient civilizations from various eras of history) to expand and broaden their spirituality, their understanding of themselves and the world they found themselves, to basically discover the answers. I don't think it is for anyone to suddently decide, for example, Salvia (leaves chewed by ancient Mayans to produce an hour long internal quest) is suddenly wrong for the public to be dabbling in. (Salvia these days is actually a legal product, at least in Canada, generally smoked in certain doses to produce an inward visionary trip.)

I also believe certain substances such as DMT can be used, by those with a mature enough mind to fully grok the experience, to awaken more fully as an enlightened person. What one can discover is his or hers alone to discover..