What Do You Believe?

[Paranormal Panther]

I apologize if this is on the wrong board, and I hope that a moderator moves this thread to the right board if that's the case. I can't find a general supernatural board. This thread isn't about belief systems and skepticism. It's about limits.

What do you believe to be true within the context of the paranormal? What phenomena have you experienced to bolster and support your belief? It's fine if you just believe in certain things. You don't have to experience them.

I think that EBEs and UFOs are real. Thousands of us have seen thousands of mysterious objects in the sky. They may be prosaic, but they are unidentified. I also believe that there are other life forms out there.

I believe that some "ape cryptids" and "water cryptids" exist. There are just too many claims for me to dismiss all of them, although I have reservations about some of the more bizarre creatures. For instance, I think that Bigfoot exists, but I'm not sure about Goatman. I have yet to see a cryptid.

There likely is life after life. Does it continue, in the physical and spiritual planes, in the form of ghosts? I'm open to the idea since there are so many cases of ghostly activity. I'm not aware of any definitive explanations for it, so we all have our own pet theories.

I definitely believe in psychic abilities. I've experienced both precognition and telepathy. My strange life has been one long streak of synchronicity, so there's no denying (in my opinion) that a communicative thread runs through the universe. I can't pretend that it doesn't exist.

I don't want to debate and discuss whether I'm right or wrong. I just want to hear what others believe. Feel free to bring up anything (Atlantis, Bermuda Triangle, parallel universe, reincarnation) that fits. Have fun with it!

[Davros of Skaro]

I try not to believe anything, but to know things. Belief can lead to many false beliefs. Just because you encounter X, it does not mean Y and Z is true. Just because a multitude believes it does make it true for the reason of our fallable perceptions.

Just because one sees a technologically advanced craft it does not mean aliens are the pilots if you did not see them. Just because you see an object move as if by unseen hands it does not mean it's a ghost from someone passed on. How would you know if you were not a victim of a prank from the future? A future where such devices to do the deed is as common as phones are today.

It does not matter what I believe, but I do know that "wanting to believe" lead me to errors. Wanting to know gave me much more understanding and satisfaction.

[jamesjr191]

It does not matter what I believe, but I do know that "wanting to believe" lead me to errors. Wanting to know gave me much more understanding and satisfaction.

You got the nail right on the head

[Stubbly_Dooright]

I apologize if this is on the wrong board, and I hope that a moderator moves this thread to the right board if that's the case. I can't find a general supernatural board. This thread isn't about belief systems and skepticism. It's about limits.

Makes sense to me.

What do you believe to be true within the context of the paranormal? What phenomena have you experienced to bolster and support your belief? It's fine if you just believe in certain things. You don't have to experience them.

I think that EBEs and UFOs are real. Thousands of us have seen thousands of mysterious objects in the sky. They may be prosaic, but they are unidentified. I also believe that there are other life forms out there.

Ok, here's the thing. I think UFO's are not in the same context as EBE's, as in EBE's are more described as something more specific as UFO's is a general term. I will put, that I wouldn't say that EBE's or space craft from other outer space do not exist. I think that possibility is there, because that we couldn't be the only planet in this big wide universe to be carrying life and that we are life that has the highest form of technology. And I think it's possibility that other lifeforms with their higher responsibility of that technology also probably have the decency to just observe us and not interfere. I did say, I think this, and that I do not expect anyone else to think what I do.

Now, UFO's, well, of course they exist. I do feel very strongly, that I have seen quite a few ( and heard one too ) of UFO's in my time. I believe you are right, thousands of us have no doubt seen them in the sky. It's when they are identified, that tend to go more the way of Earthly bound object. More often when I see an object in the sky that I do not identify, it does comes off as having the characteristics of a plane, or satellite, or tiny meteorite. ( I have seen that many times. )

Then there were the couple of things I have seen, like a star zigzagging across the sky in ninety degree angles, from north to south, or the orange object traveling very slowly through the tree tops, (after a power outage ) that is not a moon, or the sound of a very low rumble, that quickly moves from east to west, and I could tell how large the object was by the feeling of it when it moved over my house and how things in my house shaked and rattled. (for some reason, something compelled me to stay in bed and not go to the window to check, which I usually do ) and this was on an Air Force Base, where I have heard countless planes, helocoptors, and such fly over all of the time, so I would recognize them, and this was really different ) and all of these things are still listed in my book as UFO's, because I have not been able to identify them yet. I have talked about them here on UM on the particular forums, and despite the many suggestions of what it could be by helpful posters, ( and the jury is still out, but some of them might be right on their suggestions ) there hasn't been anything that has the same characteristics that matches what I saw, ( and heard )

So, I may even believe more of strange things coming here, but I also feel that those three things just might be something that can be explained, and I know, there are still plenty of things on this Earth I am not aware of yet.

I sometimes get when deep skeptics get all in the air about someone talking about a UFO experience, but not about a spaceship experience. Big difference. I know, I have not had a true experience of seeing a spaceship, because I have yet to see something that I would identify it as such, ( well from known descriptions of others )

I believe that some "ape cryptids" and "water cryptids" exist. There are just too many claims for me to dismiss all of them, although I have reservations about some of the more bizarre creatures. For instance, I think that Bigfoot exists, but I'm not sure about Goatman. I have yet to see a cryptid.

I think you make a good point. Sometimes, if there are a lot of sightings, where did those sightings come from. ( I do want to note, yes they can be lied about too. )

There likely is life after life. Does it continue, in the physical and spiritual planes, in the form of ghosts? I'm open to the idea since there are so many cases of ghostly activity. I'm not aware of any definitive explanations for it, so we all have our own pet theories.

I'm with you on the explanation. I also have to have my belief system to be listened to. My belief feels that maybe I'm not to know in life about life after death. But, I have seen things, that makes me thing on that matter. ( part of me has my own conclusions just for me, and part of me knows the jury is still out and another part of me is so dog gone fascinated by it, that I believe that is what fuels the rest of me. )

I definitely believe in psychic abilities. I've experienced both precognition and telepathy.

I have had my own version of experiences, that makes me think that. It could still be coincidences of I just so happened to think that, when someone else speaks up and says what I just happened to be thinking. But yeah, one part of me still has the jury out on that one. ( I may want to keep it that way, not finding out too soon that it's just incredible multiple coincidences, but that's just me )

My strange life has been one long streak of synchronicity, so there's no denying (in my opinion) that a communicative thread runs through the universe. I can't pretend that it doesn't exist.

I feel the same way about my life. But I feel that way just for me. I think we all have our own ways of seeing things, and we all should be comfortable to what conclusions we have as long as we don't belittle the other person that sees things differently. We all do learn from each other, right?

I don't want to debate and discuss whether I'm right or wrong. I just want to hear what others believe. Feel free to bring up anything (Atlantis, Bermuda Triangle, parallel universe, reincarnation) that fits. Have fun with it!

Well, this is the 'skeptics and spiritual' section, so why not! But, I think this is what these boards are about. Finding out and learning and discussing.

I try not to believe anything, but to know things. Belief can lead to many false beliefs. Just because you encounter X, it does not mean Y and Z is true. Just because a multitude believes it does make it true for the reason of our fallable perceptions.

Just because one sees a technologically advanced craft it does not mean aliens are the pilots if you did not see them. Just because you see an object move as if by unseen hands it does not mean it's a ghost from someone passed on. How would you know if you were not a victim of a prank from the future? A future where such devices to do the deed is as common as phones are today.

It does not matter what I believe, but I do know that "wanting to believe" lead me to errors. Wanting to know gave me much more understanding and satisfaction.

That's a very good point to make. I have noticed that the difference to believing based of certain experiences to those wanting to believe because of what they made out of an ambiguous experience seems to make up events of the ambiguous experience. I see that when many people seem to take the term 'certain day to certain another day' ( being that the time for something of theirs to be delivered takes longer than they like ), so hearing the first number spoken ends up them hearing that's how quick it will take to be delivered.

I think it's important to stop and think and just record the experience and realize it could be anything even eventually mundane. With my belief, there's room for that, but I work at my belief to understand it better. If it ends up mundane, ............... then cool!

Edited February 8, 2016 by Stubbly_Dooright

[XenoFish]

I believe that I don't and no really knows what's going on. All I know is that I want to enjoy my life as peacefully as I can and learn for the rest of my days.

[Paranormal Panther]

I have noticed that the difference to believing based of certain experiences to those wanting to believe because of what they made out of an ambiguous experience seems to make up events of the ambiguous experience. I see that when many people seem to take the term 'certain day to certain another day' ( being that the time for something of theirs to be delivered takes longer than they like ), so hearing the first number spoken ends up them hearing that's how quick it will take to be delivered.

Thanks for your great reply. I really appreciate the fact that it sticks to the main topic! You could start some terrific threads based on your personal experiences. They certainly are intriguing.

I should add that I don't think that EBE and UFO are necessarily linked. I use "EBE/UFO" as a category for all kinds of things that can fit that label. I don't think that all strange craft, in the sky (or in the sea), are manned by extraterrestrials. Some of them might be. I know that you and I share some of the same experiences. I saw lights that moved in ways that supposedly were impossible for terrestrial craft. I also saw orange lights, one of which remained stationary for minutes! I have no definitive explanations for these sightings.

I should also add that cryptozoology isn't relegated to only creatures like Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster. Hundreds of "new" hidden species of fauna were found during our lifetimes. Some of them were thought to be extinct. Several of them seem more exotic than some mythological animals.

Again, I really enjoyed your reply. I agreed with your beliefs and observations to a great extent. The quoted portion (above) of your post confused me, though. Maybe I had a mental hiccup when I read it.

[Daffy123]

I believe a lot of "paranormal" things exist but that there are ultimately scientific explanations. We just don't have them yet.

And I don't mean scientifically explaining them away or debunking (though the vast majority can be, if I had to guess) but in the sense that once we know more, if we exist long enough or advance quickly enough, much of the paranormal will no longer be paranormal by definition.

[Mr Walker]

I apologize if this is on the wrong board, and I hope that a moderator moves this thread to the right board if that's the case. I can't find a general supernatural board. This thread isn't about belief systems and skepticism. It's about limits.

What do you believe to be true within the context of the paranormal? What phenomena have you experienced to bolster and support your belief? It's fine if you just believe in certain things. You don't have to experience them.

I think that EBEs and UFOs are real. Thousands of us have seen thousands of mysterious objects in the sky. They may be prosaic, but they are unidentified. I also believe that there are other life forms out there.

I believe that some "ape cryptids" and "water cryptids" exist. There are just too many claims for me to dismiss all of them, although I have reservations about some of the more bizarre creatures. For instance, I think that Bigfoot exists, but I'm not sure about Goatman. I have yet to see a cryptid.

There likely is life after life. Does it continue, in the physical and spiritual planes, in the form of ghosts? I'm open to the idea since there are so many cases of ghostly activity. I'm not aware of any definitive explanations for it, so we all have our own pet theories.

I definitely believe in psychic abilities. I've experienced both precognition and telepathy. My strange life has been one long streak of synchronicity, so there's no denying (in my opinion) that a communicative thread runs through the universe. I can't pretend that it doesn't exist.

I don't want to debate and discuss whether I'm right or wrong. I just want to hear what others believe. Feel free to bring up anything (Atlantis, Bermuda Triangle, parallel universe, reincarnation) that fits. Have fun with it!

I am with davros on this I KNOW many things are real. If i don't know, i don't believe or disbelieve.I try to use evidences (such as how the entity appears and interacts with other parts of the real environment) contexts and logic to determine the nature of things. Ghosts, as an example, come in many different types and forms yet appear so often they could almost be scientifically classified by nature and behaviour. POltergeists are ALMOST scientifically accepted to exist (or at least the visible telekinesis of objects associated with them is) despite a lack of understanding of their true nature. There are ghosts which appear strongly attached to a specific place. while others are attached to an object, and can appear over very great distances as the object is moved around. Most ghosts appear to be some form of energy tape or projection from the past and can be easily identified via photos etc as a specific character from the past. MAny of these cannot respond to, or interact with us, but others actually respond to human presence like the invisible ghost of a convict gardener at Port Arthur in Tasmania, who "gooses" or fondles any attractive woman who walks into his domain. . Edited February 11, 2016 by Mr Walker

[Mr Walker]

I believe that I don't and no really knows what's going on. All I know is that I want to enjoy my life as peacefully as I can and learn for the rest of my days.

Whereas i cant find peace until i know the answers.

[Paranormal Panther]

I am with davros on this I KNOW many things are real. If i don't know, i don't believe or disbelieve.I try to use evidences (such as how the entity appears and interacts with other parts of the real environment) contexts and logic to determine the nature of things. Ghosts, as an example, come in many different types and forms yet appear so often they could almost be scientifically classified by nature and behaviour. POltergeists are ALMOST scientifically accepted to exist (or at least the visible telekinesis of objects associated with them is) despite a lack of understanding of their true nature. There are ghosts which appear strongly attached to a specific place. while others are attached to an object, and can appear over very great distances as the object is moved around. Most ghosts appear to be some form of energy tape or projection from the past and can be easily identified via photos etc as a specific character from the past. MAny of these cannot respond to, or interact with us, but others actually respond to human presence like the invisible ghost of a convict gardener at Port Arthur in Tasmania, who "gooses" or fondles any attractive woman who walks into his domain. .

I agree with you in that I don't believe that ghostly events have just one explanation. Like you, I think that some events imprint themselves on the environment. They probably are so dramatic that their energy leaves audio and video residue that reappear from time to time. They're like atmospheric time capsules.

I also mostly agree with you on poltergeist-like activity. I think that some of it is caused by psychokinesis, as well as odd environmental conditions, some of which are natural. It's likely no coincidence that many cases take place around female adolescents. On the other hand, some events may be caused by traditional ghosts or other beings.

Traditional ghosts and hauntings may be real. Perhaps some spirits are stuck on this plane for some unknown reason. I think that some of these entities interact with us. These beings might be the most interesting to me.

We then have other beings and other phenomena, like light orbs and shadow beings. I still strongly recall an experience with the latter, and I can't attribute it to mundane explanations. Such beings may be inter-dimensional in nature, but we don't really know right now. Your guess is as good as mine.

[psyche101]

Seems a very closed minded approach to what is purported to be an open minded subject.

But then again, fringe is notorious for contradiction.

[Paranormal Panther]

Seems a very closed minded approach to what is purported to be an open minded subject.

But then again, fringe is notorious for contradiction.

Nope, it's just a thread to share beliefs. There are tons of threads for arguments.

[psyche101]

Nope, it's just a thread to share beliefs. There are tons of threads for arguments.

Perhaps you can explain the purpose of belief when fact is at hand?

For instance, regarding the "deep mystery" of UFO's have you heard of the Hessdalen Valley project?

[Paranormal Panther]

Perhaps you can explain the purpose of belief when fact is at hand?

For instance, regarding the "deep mystery" of UFO's have you heard of the Hessdalen Valley project?

I made this thread for the express purpose of sharing beliefs. "I believe in ghosts, but I don't believe in monsters." There are scores of threads to debate and discuss whether said beliefs are valid or not. I also couldn't find an appropriate board in which to post the thread. A member may post that they believe in elves. Other members may think that's crazy. That's all well and good, but there are many threads to argue about it. It's as if I made a thread about cars you owned, and people argued about alternative fuel.

[psyche101]

I made this thread for the express purpose of sharing beliefs. "I believe in ghosts, but I don't believe in monsters." There are scores of threads to debate and discuss whether said beliefs are valid or not. I also couldn't find an appropriate board in which to post the thread. A member may post that they believe in elves. Other members may think that's crazy. That's all well and good, but there are many threads to argue about it. It's as if I made a thread about cars you owned, and people argued about alternative fuel.

I honestly do not understand the point of adults telling fairy tales. It seems an incredibly silly thing to do.

How is your analogy valid? I am more confused than ever now. It is more like discussing that Chitty Chitty Bang Bang is a real car and where can I get one.

[Mr Walker]

I honestly do not understand the point of adults telling fairy tales. It seems an incredibly silly thing to do.

How is your analogy valid? I am more confused than ever now. It is more like discussing that Chitty Chitty Bang Bang is a real car and where can I get one.

THe OP has a different world view and experiences to you. He does not see these things as NECESSARILY fairy tales and wants to explore possibilities That is what UM should be used for, not simply knocking those beliefs or ideas on the head.

I appreciate you have a totally materialistic view of reality (if that is the right phrase) but not everyone does Ghosts and poltergeists are not fairy tales. i don't know what they are but they are very/absolutely "real" I know from personal experiences and the experiences of dozens of friends, relatives, colleagues, as well as the accounts you can read about. i would say the MAJORITY of people i know have encountered an unexplained phenomena related to either ghosts or poltergeists (the latter are the most commonly reported form of paranormal activity in the world) To dismiss ghosts as fairy tales means never investigating WHAT the y actually are.

[psyche101]

THe OP has a different world view and experiences to you. He does not see these things as NECESSARILY fairy tales and wants to explore possibilities That is what UM should be used for, not simply knocking those beliefs or ideas on the head.

I appreciate you have a totally materialistic view of reality (if that is the right phrase) but not everyone does Ghosts and poltergeists are not fairy tales. i don't know what they are but they are very/absolutely "real" I know from personal experiences and the experiences of dozens of friends, relatives, colleagues, as well as the accounts you can read about. i would say the MAJORITY of people i know have encountered an unexplained phenomena related to either ghosts or poltergeists (the latter are the most commonly reported form of paranormal activity in the world) To dismiss ghosts as fairy tales means never investigating WHAT the y actually are.

LOL, I had forgotten about you, this thread was MADE for you!!! I shall cease and desist, and leave people to making up stuff to impress each other with I wish there was a way to delete it from my content list. This is definitely not the thread for me.

Ghosts are real are they?? LOL, yeah, sure they are. They are a heightened state of emotion that we manifest as something tangible.

[Mr Walker]

LOL, I had forgotten about you, this thread was MADE for you!!! I shall cease and desist, and leave people to making up stuff to impress each other with I wish there was a way to delete it from my content list. This is definitely not the thread for me.

Ghosts are real are they?? LOL, yeah, sure they are. They are a heightened state of emotion that we manifest as something tangible.

I appreciate you giving the OP a fair go.

Ghosts are possibly MANY things including your analysis But they are not ONLY that. People experience ghosts when they have no reason to expect to, and in the most mundane of places. Investigative journalists originally totally sceptical, have entered houses where poltergeists were active and experienced them without finding any trickery or fraud And some objects which are haunted, travel hundreds of miles and are owned by people with no idea of their history, who still experience the same pattern of haunting over decades of time.

Ps are you suggesting poltergeists are a psychic phenomenum created by human energy? That is one theory, and it fits a lot of the evidences, but i suspect you mean people just imagine them when in a state of heightened emotion.

[psyche101]

I appreciate you giving the OP a fair go.

Well, I do not understand it, so best I just have little involvement, if the purpose of the thread is to pretend fake things are real, then I cannot contribute.

Ghosts are possibly MANY things including your analysis But they are not ONLY that. People experience ghosts when they have no reason to expect to, and in the most mundane of places. Investigative journalists originally totally sceptical, have entered houses where poltergeists were active and experienced them without finding any trickery or fraud And some objects which are haunted, travel hundreds of miles and are owned by people with no idea of their history, who still experience the same pattern of haunting over decades of time.

I have seen several TV shows where they go to Haunted houses - some journalists in there. Nothing ever seems to happen when they are there. People say "ohh, but you should have been here last Tuesday!!" There were Ghosts everywhere

and even the reporters are like - yeah...... sure. Saw a funny one just a few weeks ago now that you mention it on Sunrise, same things. No Ghosts, just some dubious people in dark clothing making silly stories up that they can never verify and some Journalists trying to take it seriously, but failing by the end of the night. Can you cite any recorded programs or documentaries that can verify your claim? I have never seen a successful "Ghost Hunt" In real life. or on the boob tube.

When I was in my early twenties, it seemed plausible in my 40's, I know it is not.

Ps are you suggesting poltergeists are a psychic phenomenum created by human energy? That is one theory, and it fits a lot of the evidences, but i suspect you mean people just imagine them when in a state of heightened emotion.

I would suggest a manifestation that is only as strong as the preconceptions of the person witnessing such. I do not think energy can be transferred in that way form a person, more a manifestation of emotions, excitement, fear, and a dark corner of a room can make one think Ghosts are real - I have seen it myself. Yes, you are correct a heightened state of emotion.

If I was to post a belief, it would be that Rock n Roll can save your mortal soul

[Davros of Skaro]

I believe paranormal things happen, though not common. What saddens me is that people's wilful ignorance feed off each other. This is a breeding ground for nutters, misinformation, and people with no shame cashing in. This is an hindrance for serious study.

Skepticism is needed even at the cost of a cherished belief. When you apply scrutiny, you narrow belief to knowing, and that's much better.

[Galactic Goatman]

My sig sums up what I believe quite well.

[Podo]

I think that belief and knowledge are very different, as is wanting to believe in something, which is further removed from wanting something to be real but not necessarily believing in it.

For example, I very much want sasquatches to be real. I think that a sasquatch is biologically viable insofar as an undiscovered hominid is feasible and doesn't break any natural laws. However, the evidence does not support it. As another example, I know that UFOs exist, because a UFO is merely an object in the sky that is unidentified. Are they alien crafts? That's up for debate. Do I want them to be? Totally. Do I think most sightings are extraterrestrial visitors? No, of course not. It's possible, sure, but very unlikely.

The only thing I'd say I'm dogmatically against is ghosts. The concept is preposterous, and ghost believers are some of the most obnoxious folks to deal with because every little thing is "evidence" of ghosts being real. It doesn't make sense. If evidence surfaces to imply that ghosts somehow exist, then I'll accept it. But, until that happens I really can't take anyone seriously who tries to tell me that ghosts are real.

[Davros of Skaro]

The only thing I'd say I'm dogmatically against is ghosts. The concept is preposterous, and ghost believers are some of the most obnoxious folks to deal with because every little thing is "evidence" of ghosts being real. It doesn't make sense. If evidence surfaces to imply that ghosts somehow exist, then I'll accept it. But, until that happens I really can't take anyone seriously who tries to tell me that ghosts are real.

[Mr Walker]

I think that belief and knowledge are very different, as is wanting to believe in something, which is further removed from wanting something to be real but not necessarily believing in it.

For example, I very much want sasquatches to be real. I think that a sasquatch is biologically viable insofar as an undiscovered hominid is feasible and doesn't break any natural laws. However, the evidence does not support it. As another example, I know that UFOs exist, because a UFO is merely an object in the sky that is unidentified. Are they alien crafts? That's up for debate. Do I want them to be? Totally. Do I think most sightings are extraterrestrial visitors? No, of course not. It's possible, sure, but very unlikely.

The only thing I'd say I'm dogmatically against is ghosts. The concept is preposterous, and ghost believers are some of the most obnoxious folks to deal with because every little thing is "evidence" of ghosts being real. It doesn't make sense. If evidence surfaces to imply that ghosts somehow exist, then I'll accept it. But, until that happens I really can't take anyone seriously who tries to tell me that ghosts are real.

I dont really get your reasoning as to why sasquatch is more likely than some form of ghost, but i can accept your pov.

The good news is that eventually you are almost certain to encounter something "ghost like" which will challenge your disbelief, despite an application of healthy scepticism. It may or may not turn out to b e a "real" ghost but they are so common it is almost inevitable you will encounter something totally impossible to explain away by what you know, within this area of the paranormal. I don't believe ghosts are the "spirits " of the dead but they are something very interesting.

[Podo]

I dont really get your reasoning as to why sasquatch is more likely than some form of ghost, but i can accept your pov.

The good news is that eventually you are almost certain to encounter something "ghost like" which will challenge your disbelief, despite an application of healthy scepticism. It may or may not turn out to b e a "real" ghost but they are so common it is almost inevitable you will encounter something totally impossible to explain away by what you know, within this area of the paranormal. I don't believe ghosts are the "spirits " of the dead but they are something very interesting.

A sasquatch is more likely than a ghost because it is grounded in fact, while ghosts are not. For example, a sasquatch would be some kind of undiscovered hominid. We know that hominids exist. We know that hominids have existed for millions of years. We know that large animals have evaded notice for millenia. Ergo, an undiscovered hominid, while extremely unlikely with the current body of evidence, is more likely than a ghost because an undiscovered hominid does not violate any fundamental natural laws. Ghosts do not have the same context; there is no historical precedent for them, we can't detect them, we've no reason to believe that they have ever existed, we don't have any currently-existing analogues, etc. A ghost being "discovered" would require us to have been wrong/nonunderstanding of many many scientific principles, while the discovery of a sasquatch would merely mean that a large mammal has evaded our detection. A sasquatch is just a big smelly animal, while a ghost would be an entirely new form of life and consciousness that we have no reason to believe is even possible.

The two things are as different as a coelecanth and a leprechaun.