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What can be done about dangerous dogs?

dangerous dogs pdsa

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#1    Still Waters

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 03:46 PM

Following the death of Jade Anderson, the 14-year-old girl who was attacked and killed by five dogs, a range of experts explain what they think should be done about dangerous dogs.

Sean Wensley - senior veterinary surgeon for PDSA

This very sad case is a shocking reminder that any dog, even family pets, can on occasion display problem behaviour.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-21954533

The Jade Anderson story is here -

http://www.unexplain...pic=245275&st=0

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#2    Queen in the North

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 04:07 PM

IMHO, ALL breeding should be regulated, and you should get wrong for breeding outside of the regulations. Might not seem very practical, but surely it's better than the tens of thousands of dogs put down every year because no one wants.

There are just too many dogs. And it doesn't help when people insist on breeding dogs that -- though it's brutal to say so -- no one wants. Staffy crosses, all sorts of different mongrels. These are probably the dogs going to get the least attention and training, making it easier for those dogs to become aggressive, leading to many of the tragedies that have graced our news in recent years. As the article mentions, it is a very small number purposefully being trained to be aggressive, the majority is down to poor ownership.

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#3    stevewinn

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 06:15 PM

the explosion in staff/bull terrier type breed of dogs and other associated breeds are now used as status symbols on the council estates up and down the land. when i was younger growing up on the 'mean streets of liverpool'  :D  you use to see stray mongrel type dogs. even the ones with three legs or the limp. they've disappeared  along with white dog poo. :rolleyes:  for me there is nothing we can do as regards to the incidents because all of them are happening in the family home. so it comes down to the responsibility of the dog/home owner.

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#4    Ashotep

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Posted 30 March 2013 - 06:20 PM

I think its sad what happened to that girl but I'm not sure you can judge the whole breed on what a few dogs do.  I think in some cases its the owners that make them mean.  I had a rottweiler that wouldn't hurt a child or anyone but I didn't encourage her to be mean and she was well fed, too well fed the vet said.


#5    RamblingRebel

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 09:17 AM

How many threads has there been in this little part of the forum over the last couple of years regarding dangerous dogs.  How many times is it on the news, and still all the same questions are asked, and the same answers given.

Surely its time to stop these idiots from keeping these dogs that are purley there to make them look hard.  I've known plenty of lads, and lasses over the years that actually encourage these pups to be vicious!

I'm a dog owner and would be happy to take some kind of test like the driving test to get a proper licence and not just pop into the post office and pay the €12 or whatever and have my bit of paper for a year.

Saying that though I have NEVER been asked to produce my dog licence in my life either in England or here in Ireland.  It has to be up to the authorities to start taking it seriously.


#6    stevewinn

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 10:41 AM

View PostRamblingRebel, on 31 March 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

How many threads has there been in this little part of the forum over the last couple of years regarding dangerous dogs.  How many times is it on the news, and still all the same questions are asked, and the same answers given.

Surely its time to stop these idiots from keeping these dogs that are purley there to make them look hard.  I've known plenty of lads, and lasses over the years that actually encourage these pups to be vicious!

I'm a dog owner and would be happy to take some kind of test like the driving test to get a proper licence and not just pop into the post office and pay the €12 or whatever and have my bit of paper for a year.

Saying that though I have NEVER been asked to produce my dog licence in my life either in England or here in Ireland.  It has to be up to the authorities to start taking it seriously.

the only problem with the dog license is it never worked before and wont work in the future. okay me and you the law abiding citizens would trundle off to the post office to pay £X- amount for a dog license, but what of the scallies. these wouldnt bother with a licence, and when the police stop them they'll simply say the dogs not theirs and even if the police confiscate the dog they'll go out and get a new one. just look at what happens now. under the dangerous dogs act. the police have a hard enough time in determining the breed. when they stop people they say the dogs a cross breed, then if the police decide to confiscate the dog they have to go through all the courts and vets bills in determining the breed in 90% of cases they cannot prove the breed of the dog. and then end up paying compensation to the owner, legal and Vet bills.

if the truth be known, we just have to wait until this phase of owning dangerous dogs passes. the stories of people or kids being bitten or killed will continue, but then again you cannot legislate for the stupidity of people.

Edited by stevewinn, 31 March 2013 - 10:43 AM.

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#7    skookum

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 10:44 AM

View Poststevewinn, on 30 March 2013 - 06:15 PM, said:

the explosion in staff/bull terrier type breed of dogs and other associated breeds are now used as status symbols on the council estates up and down the land. when i was younger growing up on the 'mean streets of liverpool'  :D  you use to see stray mongrel type dogs. even the ones with three legs or the limp. they've disappeared  along with white dog poo. :rolleyes:  for me there is nothing we can do as regards to the incidents because all of them are happening in the family home. so it comes down to the responsibility of the dog/home owner.

A stupid neighbour bought her tear away teenage son one.  I use to watch him goad it in the garden because he wanted it to be 'hard'.  Eventually the RSPCA to took it away under cruelty to animals.  Poor thing had to be put down as he had made it vicious.

Maybe a restriction to one dog and forced registration in local authority housing would be a start.

Edited by skookum, 31 March 2013 - 10:56 AM.

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#8    and then

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 11:05 AM

Severe penalties for owners whose animal harms anyone might help the situation.  If they will be held civilly or even criminally liable it might make more of them take dog ownership seriously.

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#9    stevewinn

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 11:11 AM

View Postand then, on 31 March 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

Severe penalties for owners whose animal harms anyone might help the situation.  If they will be held civilly or even criminally liable it might make more of them take dog ownership seriously.

this is possibly the answer.

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#10    Moon Gazer

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 11:51 AM

Definitely stricter penalities would be a start.  So many post delivery people, gas fitters, meter readers etc are badly hurt every year by having to go in to gardens and houses with vicious dogs.  But because it is on private property no one can be charged.

The full details of Jade's death haven't been told yet, but even if it was proven that the dog owners were training the dogs up to fight or be vicious they could not charged as it was on private property.

I think licenses would be a start.  Although people would say that the dog wasn't theirs the police could take details and ask for proof of license from the owner.  There could be some kind of record.  I also think breeders should have to have training and anyone found selling dogs without the right qualifications should be hit with heavy fines.

I don't think there is any one thing that will help with dangerous dogs.  I see breed specific legistation getting thrown around but that won't help, and there are thousands of wonderful Staffies, rottweilers and other breeds of dogs that can be seen as dangerous dogs but are big softies really.

Sadly, these strong and powerful dogs have been used as a status symbol amongst chavs and due to their strength this can end with devastating consequences.

Also, I see so many people "babying" their dogs.  These are animals, not babies.  And while many dogs will be absolutely fine to be treat like this, I think the temprement of some dogs, this just doesn't work.  Dogs do need discipline and control, some breeds more than others.

I also hear of people being attacked by their "family pet", who "wouldn't hurt a fly".  Unfortunately I think people forget that dogs are animals and don't always react like humans expect them to.  I would never leave my kids alone with a dog.  As friendly as they might be, it's just not worth the risk.

I do also make sure that my kids don't approach dogs when we are out, until they have asked the owners.  It makes me nervous when I see kids running up to dogs they don't know in the park who are out getting walked.  Those dogs might not be used to children and you can bet the kids parents would go crazy if their child got bitten, when really the parents should be controlling their kids.


#11    Wyrdlight

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 12:13 PM

Its laughably simple to fix this problem.

Simply make it the law that in order to own a dog, you must have a liceanse.

For a liceance to be obtained proof that the dog and owner has attended puppy classes/training classes.  Licneanse must be renewed every 3 years dependant upon certain things, new kids in house, other new dogs, change of house etc.

This would have numerous benifits.

1. Would create more of an industry in regards to dog training, good for the economy.
2. Would allow for regulation in all areas.
3. The cost of a licease would help stop people who should not have dogs due to money issues from having dogs.

Also breeding should be more heavily regulated, to be blunt the "dangerous" dogs are almost universally Staffs, Mastiffs, Bulldogs, Rotti's, Pitbulls, Terriers for the simple reason that they are cheap, common, and naturally protective/agressive.  The fact is any 17 year old single mother in a run down appartment can breed 2 staffs and make a tidy profit on the pups selling them to everyone within 300m.  Its not that these breeds are all bad and should be banned more that they are bred with no regard for breed standards and the sort of people that buy these cheap dogs dont train them, socialise them with kids when puppies etc.

I have a standard poodle, He is a large dog, same weight roughly speaking as a med-large german sheapard, when younger he was extremely fast and agile, and more than happy to fight a mastiff or a german sheapard if they started on him when out for a walk. In short, he is a large dog, more than capable of killing/hurting somone if he so chose.

Now, I know with utter confidence and certenty he would not harm a child if left alone with them. Why? well when he was a puppy he was socialised every day with small children, I came into the room once and found him lying on the floor with a toddler using him as a bed, in fact when somone rang the door, he would herd the children away from it and stand in front of them, protecting them.  He was trained to do what he was told, when he was told from a very young age.  If I say "no" or "go lie down" he does so.  The only agressive behavviour i have seen from him was when a stranger snuck up on him when he was asleep in car and shouted "Oh my god! a Poodle!!!" 6 inches from my dogs face while trying to reach in and touch him, I and my younger sister were in the car at the time.  The result? the man nearly lost his nose/lips. He was woken suddenly, to find his own space invaded by a stranger with no warning who was reaching towards him/his pack members.

He was trained by sneaking up and tugging hard on his tail/fur at differant places, and taught not to snap or react suddenly, so if a child wanders up and grabs a handful (which being a white poodle who looks like a cute baa-lamb happens on a daily basis when out and about) he wont snap out of suprise etc.


#12    stevewinn

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 12:34 PM

View PostWyrdlight, on 31 March 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

Its laughably simple to fix this problem.

Simply make it the law that in order to own a dog, you must have a license.


For a license to be obtained proof that the dog and owner has attended puppy classes/training classes.  License must be renewed every 3 years dependent upon certain things, new kids in house, other new dogs, change of house etc.

This would have numerous benefits.

1. Would create more of an industry in regards to dog training, good for the economy.
2. Would allow for regulation in all areas.
3. The cost of a licease would help stop people who should not have dogs due to money issues from having dogs.

Also breeding should be more heavily regulated, to be blunt the "dangerous" dogs are almost universally Staffs, Mastiffs, Bulldogs, Rotti's, Pitbulls, Terriers for the simple reason that they are cheap, common, and naturally protective/aggressive.  The fact is any 17 year old single mother in a run down apartment can breed 2 staffs and make a tidy profit on the pups selling them to everyone within 300m.  Its not that these breeds are all bad and should be banned more that they are bred with no regard for breed standards and the sort of people that buy these cheap dogs dont train them, socialise them with kids when puppies etc.

I have a standard poodle, He is a large dog, same weight roughly speaking as a med-large german Shepard, when younger he was extremely fast and agile, and more than happy to fight a mastiff or a german Shepard if they started on him when out for a walk. In short, he is a large dog, more than capable of killing/hurting somone if he so chose.

Now, I know with utter confidence and certainty he would not harm a child if left alone with them. Why? well when he was a puppy he was socialised every day with small children, I came into the room once and found him lying on the floor with a toddler using him as a bed, in fact when someone rang the door, he would herd the children away from it and stand in front of them, protecting them.  He was trained to do what he was told, when he was told from a very young age.  If I say "no" or "go lie down" he does so.  The only aggressive behavior i have seen from him was when a stranger snuck up on him when he was asleep in car and shouted "Oh my god! a Poodle!!!" 6 inches from my dogs face while trying to reach in and touch him, I and my younger sister were in the car at the time.  The result? the man nearly lost his nose/lips. He was woken suddenly, to find his own space invaded by a stranger with no warning who was reaching towards him/his pack members.

He was trained by sneaking up and tugging hard on his tail/fur at different places, and taught not to snap or react suddenly, so if a child wanders up and grabs a handful (which being a white poodle who looks like a cute baa-lamb happens on a daily basis when out and about) he wont snap out of suprise etc.

i have to disagree, because we've had dog licenses and they didn't work. it seems simple - just take car tax, car insurance, laws in place for these yet an estimated 3 million drivers have none. look how hard it is to police. so imagine having to police dog ownership especially for those in society who dont abide by the rules. - I think the possible answer is what Umer' 'And Then' said in post #8 i think this sort of action puts the emphases on the owner and makes it much more easier for the police.

Edited by stevewinn, 31 March 2013 - 12:35 PM.

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#13    Wyrdlight

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 12:44 PM

View Poststevewinn, on 31 March 2013 - 12:34 PM, said:

i have to disagree, because we've had dog licenses and they didn't work. it seems simple - just take car tax, car insurance, laws in place for these yet an estimated 3 million drivers have none. look how hard it is to police. so imagine having to police dog ownership especially for those in society who dont abide by the rules. - I think the possible answer is what Umer' 'And Then' said in post #8 i think this sort of action puts the emphases on the owner and makes it much more easier for the police.

Harsher penalties is a step forward but thats kind of like closing the gate after the horse has bolted, the kids will still be dead/chewed up.

Most agressive dogs ive encountered have been owned by gangs of kids/teens in hoodies who use them like living weapons, seeing as most of them carry blades etc/steal/break the law anyways harsher penalties for damage the dog does seems pretty pointless and would not phase them at all.

If you made in finaceally difficult/impossible to own a dog unless certain box's were ticked or you made enough money then it would help stop the problem.

Yes there will always be people who break the law, but then we punish them.


#14    Kowalski

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 01:58 PM

My family and I own several dogs (3 are way over the hill, sadly...) one is a one eyed border collie. They stay in my in laws house a lot. My husband and I have a pure bred blue tick hound. We've had him since he was a puppy. Then, there's his buddy, my father in laws German Shepherd/Golden retriever he adopted from the animal shelter. We're big animal lovers. I even have 5 cats running around....
We've never had any trouble with our dogs, but there are a lot of pit bull crosses that roam around, and sometimes they start fighting with our dogs. Me and my neighbors can't figure out where they come from, but they've had problems with these dogs fighting with their dogs too. Also, two year ago, my husband and me adopted two dogs from a shelter, and one day they just disappeared, along with another dog we had outside. It is the STRANGEST thing because they never roamed...
I think a lot of it, is raising your dogs with love and affection. I don't think one breed is bad, but some breeds ARE more aggressive then others. I think the reason we've never had any problem with our dogs is they were abused and either dropped off on a back road, or we got them from a shelter. We show them lots of love and affection, hence they love us back.


#15    Oppono Astos

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Posted 31 March 2013 - 08:43 PM

While it doesn't address the immediate issue of devil owners and their offensive animals; the law needs changing to make irresponsible owners responsible for any and all attacks regardless of where they occur.  If a property owner caused death or injury to a visitor by any other means they would face respective criminal or civil proceedings; yet dog attacks are regarded as unavoidable force majeure - absurd.

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