The new British empire?

[Mekorig]

The new British empire? UK plans to annex south Atlantic

Owen Bowcott

Saturday September 22, 2007

The Guardian

Britain is preparing territorial claims on tens of thousands of square miles of the Atlantic Ocean floor around the Falklands, Ascension Island and Rockall in the hope of annexing potentially lucrative gas, mineral and oil fields, the Guardian has learned.

The UK claims, to be lodged at the UN Commission on the Limits of the Continental Shelf, exploit a novel legal approach that is transforming the international politics of underwater prospecting.

Britain is accelerating its process of submitting applications to the UN - which is fraught with diplomatic sensitivities, not least with Argentina - before an international deadline for registering interests.

Source - The Guardian

Its seems where are in a new colonial era, whith almost all countries trying to claim all the undersea resources they can, after the Russians begined it whith their Artic exploration. Why not claim also the continent? If you see this little map, the UK is posible getting actual Argentine territory in the claimed area:

Anyway, all this disgust me.

In other things, but related whith this:

Major General Sir Jeremy Moore

Canny commander of the British land forces in the Falkland Islands campaign

John Shirley

Tuesday September 18, 2007

The Guardian

For a brief moment in the summer of 1982, Major General Sir Jeremy Moore, who has died aged 79, became the most famous military commander in Britain. The text of his telegram to London after he accepted the Argentinian surrender at the end of the Falklands war - "The Falkland Islands are once more under the government desired by their inhabitants; God save the Queen" - made headlines around the world, along with pictures of his youthful, muddied face greeting liberated islanders on a night-time walkabout in the islands' capital, Port Stanley.

Source - The Guardian

May he rest in peace.

[ships-cat]

I wondered why the government was so keen to commission the two new aircraft carriers.

They are obviously to help allay any...*ahem* "diplomatic sensitivities" *ahem*.

Meow Purr

[Moon Monkey]

you snooze, you lose

[Mekorig]

ships-cat: The Malvinas are already a fortress. The only problem there is that the UK have lomger supply lines. Right now our Navy/Army/Air Force are small and outdated, enough to keep our territory relative secure, but if the UK attacks, this time they would have almost half the world against them, diplomaticaly at least. Remember that we arent a ostracised military junta ruled country anymore.

And takung out the military arguments, the UK have not real scientific or legal data to make such claim. It will die in the UN.

Edited September 23, 2007 by Mekorig

[ships-cat]

ships-cat: The Malvinas are already a fortress. The only problem there is that the UK have lomger supply lines. Right now our Navy/Army/Air Force are small and outdated, enough to keep our territory relative secure, but if the UK attacks, this time they would have almost half the world against them, diplomaticaly at least. Remember that we arent a ostracised military junta ruled country anymore.

And takung out the military arguments, the UK have not real scientific or legal data to make such claim. It will die in the UN.

Heavens, I wasn't thinking about the Argentinians Mekorig, I was thinking about the Scots (Rockall).

Meow Purr.

[stevewinn]

Didnt the UK and Argentinian government agree a good while ago that if any oil is found they'd split it straight down the middle, 60%-40% well, lets hope they find oil at 230 mile mark then everything will be fine, what if the Oil is found 350 miles in the north east would there still be a problem?, its everyone for themselves, im in favour of "land Grab" if it improves my country, when i seen the topic headline New British Empire, i thought we was going on a crusade.

[Mekorig]

Didnt the UK and Argentinian government agree a good while ago that if any oil is found they'd split it straight down the middle, 60%-40% well, lets hope they find oil at 230 mile mark then everything will be fine, what if the Oil is found 350 miles in the north east would there still be a problem?, its everyone for themselves, im in favour of "land Grab" if it improves my country, when i seen the topic headline New British Empire, i thought we was going on a crusade.

Because of the sensitivities - earlier this year Buenos Aires scrapped a 1995 agreement with the UK to share any oil found in the adjacent waters - the first formal application from the UK is likely to centre on Ascension.

[stevewinn]

oh, that was a stupid thing your government done, never mind we'll still sell you some,

[questionmark]

And a new version of the same story:

Report: UK to Claim Atlantic Territory

By Associated Press

7:21 PM EDT, September 22, 2007

LONDON - Britain is preparing to claim tens of thousands of square miles of Atlantic seabed around some of the country's remote island possessions, a newspaper reported Saturday, including areas around the Falkland Islands.

The Guardian said Britain plans to exploit an international rule that allows countries to claim underwater territory as far away as 350 miles from its shoreline.

The claims include areas around the Falklands, some 8,000 miles from the British mainland; Ascension Island, a volcanic island in the middle of the Atlantic; and Rockall -- a tiny, uninhabited rock 200 miles off the Scottish coast.

Preliminary talks on Rockall are due to be held next week in Iceland, Chris Carleton, the head of law of the sea division of Britain's Hydrographic Office, told The Guardian.

Full story, Souirce: Newsday

[Mekorig]

oh, that was a stupid thing your government done, never mind we'll still sell you some,

In fact the treaty was about joined exploration/explotation, but the Argentine gov is also requesting a soveregein discution on it, and the legal status of the posible explotation is in doubt because of the Malvinas/Falklands legal situation.

Source - BBC

Source - BBC

Source - BBC

[stevewinn]

In fact the treaty was about joined exploration/explotation, but the Argentine gov is also requesting a soveregein discution on it, and the legal status of the posible explotation is in doubt because of the Malvinas/Falklands legal situation.

Source - BBC

Source - BBC

Source - BBC

Mekorig, do you think your government will have a pop at taking the islands back by force?

[Bill Hill]

Why does Argentina think the Falkland Islands is theirs anyway?

They slaughtered the south American indians so they could call a 'land mass' Argentina.

And we've taking care of anyone who's tried- so we can call these group of islands the Falkland Islands.

Edited September 24, 2007 by billyhill

[Mekorig]

Mekorig, do you think your government will have a pop at taking the islands back by force?

Nope, we are not warlike. The people see the war like is was, a desesperate move of a agonizing dictatorship to keep popular support and survive. Even if they winned, they would not keep the power. We are trying the diplomatical and pacefull way. Read about the Argentina-UK relation history. We enjoyed a good relation for decades before the conflict, and in both sides existed the idea of a Hong Kong style of deal. Dont get wrong, the people is very patriotic, and the idea of that the Malvinas/Falklands are Argentine will endure what time is requiered to see them under our flag. But we will not lower ourselfs to the military junta levels.

[Unlimited]

Why does Argentina think the Falkland Islands is theirs anyway?

Imagine if the US was to take ireland?...it's their territory..englands empirical run is over...king george learned his lesson. maybe downing street needs one....

[ships-cat]

Imagine if the US was to take ireland?...it's their territory..englands empirical run is over...king george learned his lesson. maybe downing street needs one....

There's a slight difference, which may have been overlooked in all this talk of geographic/geological boundaries.

That difference is the Islanders themselves, who have fought to build a home and who consider themselves British.

(Incidently Unlimited, "Empirical" means "dependant on observation or evidence"... perhaps you meant "Imperial ? ")

Meow Purr.

[wunarmdscissor]

Heavens, I wasn't thinking about the Argentinians Mekorig, I was thinking about the Scots (Rockall).

Meow Purr.

hmm dont quite get the comment on the scots??

and mekorig there is no chance the UK will attack argentina not a hope in hell , things have moved on slightly since the 80's

[Mekorig]

I dont worry about an english attack. They have change to a defensive tactic since the WWII, they dont begin the wars.

And even in the rare case the UK began to attack, they would get a general international scorn, and posible the attacks from Argentine allies. Argentine Navy is not what it is used to be, but the Brazilians are getting theirs bigger.

I see only two scenarios where Argentina can get the islands in the future: By diplomacy, in a Hong Kong-Style treaty, or if the UK cant hold the islands, or ensure the security of its inhabitants (in case the UK need the troops into england and cut all the transportation lines whith Malvinas/Falklands, a very unlikely scenario).

[ships-cat]

hmm dont quite get the comment on the scots??

and mekorig there is no chance the UK will attack argentina not a hope in hell , things have moved on slightly since the 80's

Hee hee - I was referring to the attempt to expand the territorial claims around Rockall wunarmdscissor. If the Scots ever go for independance, then they would have the primary geographical claim over it, rather than England

Not that theres much to claim at the moment, but I guess they suspect there's oil down there somewhere.

Meow Purr.

[wunarmdscissor]

ahh i see sorry lol

[keithisco]

I dont worry about an english attack. They have change to a defensive tactic since the WWII, they dont begin the wars.

And even in the rare case the UK began to attack, they would get a general international scorn, and posible the attacks from Argentine allies. Argentine Navy is not what it is used to be, but the Brazilians are getting theirs bigger.

I see only two scenarios where Argentina can get the islands in the future: By diplomacy, in a Hong Kong-Style treaty, or if the UK cant hold the islands, or ensure the security of its inhabitants (in case the UK need the troops into england and cut all the transportation lines whith Malvinas/Falklands, a very unlikely scenario).

The whole point is that the UK WAS giving serious consideration of Leaseback to Argentina (Argentina would hold sovereignty, but UK would lease the Islands back). As you say Hong-Kong style. Then your repressive regime at the time decided to bolster its own national prestige by invading the Falklands / Malvinas, again, you made exactly the same point.

The rescinding of the agreement to joint exploration of the oil and gas deposits was really a stupid shot in the foot. It would have shown the Islanders that in fact the Argentine people were good for them, and for their future, and trust may have developed to the point where they would have accepted leaseback. It would also have made Argentina an oil rich country that did not depend on Venezuala for hand outs. That has got to be so humiliating for the Argentine people.

The war did sadden me because it was never necessary, and for two decades it really impacted people in the UK, as I am sure it did in Argentina.

I was born in the UK (now live in Madrid Spain), meet frequently with Argentine friends, and know what a wonderfully friendly people they are (and generous-but rubbish at Rugby and Cricket!). That Galtieri committed so many Argentinians to an early death, and many UK soldiers as well, is something to be ashamed of. To be homest, I dont care if the islands are called the Falklands, or Las Malvinas, in fact I would prefer Las Malvinas.

The way forward is co-operation in all prosecting for natural resources, and a meeting of minds and cultures. If Argentina were to set up a cultural centre on the Islands it would help also, and why shouldnt they? Argentina is after all their nearest neighbour.

Edited September 24, 2007 by keithisco

[Mekorig]

Galtireri and friends were morons, the war was a futile intent to revitalize their agonizing dictatorship. And after that nationalistic interest in both sides have made everything more dificult.

The fish/oil deal was revoqued because was made in a very unfair mode for Argentina, and because of the continual negation of the Uk to merely discuss about sovereignty. In fact the broke of the deal was well taked by the people. Argentina have its oil, and now new perforation are beign made in our sea bed.

The main stone in the way to an understanding are political lobbies of some islanders and conservatives in the UK gov, and some economic interests. You talk about a Cultural Center, its a very good idea, but the current islander gov put every stone they can to anything argentine in the islands (read about the problem whith the Argentine military cementery in the islands).

Whith time i can see a pacefull solution, but in the current political situation of the world, it will take still some decades at best.

[keithisco]

Galtireri and friends were morons, the war was a futile intent to revitalize their agonizing dictatorship. And after that nationalistic interest in both sides have made everything more dificult.

The fish/oil deal was revoqued because was made in a very unfair mode for Argentina, and because of the continual negation of the Uk to merely discuss about sovereignty. In fact the broke of the deal was well taked by the people. Argentina have its oil, and now new perforation are beign made in our sea bed.

The main stone in the way to an understanding are political lobbies of some islanders and conservatives in the UK gov, and some economic interests. You talk about a Cultural Center, its a very good idea, but the current islander gov put every stone they can to anything argentine in the islands (read about the problem whith the Argentine military cementery in the islands).

Whith time i can see a pacefull solution, but in the current political situation of the world, it will take still some decades at best.

I have been trying to find references to the Argentine War Cemetery, but have not found anything negative. Perhaps you could post a link?

I think a 60 / 40 split on the oil was actually very good for Argentina. There are not many nations that would give away 40% of its oil, not forgetting that most of the expertise in drilling was being supplied by the UK. In effect Argentina would have 50% of the profits. I do not know about the fish though.

I think the Governor at Stanley needs a kick in the pants if he wont consider the future. We are not enemies, our governments were, but surely not the people?

[Mekorig]

Clarin - 02/04/1998

Clarin - 11/01/2004

Clarin - 12/01/2005

Clarin - 03/04/2007

Clarin - 14/02/2006

[keithisco]

Clarin - 02/04/1998

Clarin - 11/01/2004

Clarin - 12/01/2005

Clarin - 03/04/2007

Clarin - 14/02/2006

I see what you mean, but trying to raise, or fly an Argentina flag would be considered inappropriate. The cemetaries are maintained to honour the individuals that died, not to promote nationalism.

However the claims that the Argentine graves are not being maintained must be addressed to the War Graves Commission in the UK. They will act quickly to make sure that the graves of the dead of all sides are maintained with respect. If you do not know how to do this then tell me. I will do it on your behalf.

Edited September 24, 2007 by keithisco

[Mekorig]

Thanks keithisco, but i am pretty sure if that our gov hadnt make it, other people have done it already. But feel free to do it if you want. I am thankfull already.