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Copy & Pasted Images at Gale Crater,


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18 replies to this topic

#1    Abramelin

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 04:51 PM

"I have come across obvious image manipulation for the image composite of Gale crater. I want to be clear that I am not attacking NASA, but addressing what I found disappointing in the Gale crater composite. I am and always have been a big fan of NASA. If I worked for NASA on oversight, I would be equally upset to find the flaws in the image. When NASA puts their finished homework out there for the public to grade I expect better. I realize that this image is probably the result of a small handful of people at NASA and this should not reflect on NASA as a whole. The point of the video is that when you see even one area that is not accurate, it opens up the entire image for question."...

http://www.redicecre...le.php?id=21870


#2    Abramelin

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 04:58 PM

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#3    OverSword

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 06:18 PM

I've seen examples of this with many NASA photos from both the moon and Mars.  Quite disapointing isn't it?

Edited to add that JPL image processors have gone on record stating that they make photos of mars more red than they really are.

Edited by OverSword, 01 October 2012 - 06:19 PM.


#4    Ashotep

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 07:33 PM

I wish they would just show them in their natural color instead of adding more color.


#5    Abramelin

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 08:20 PM

View PostOverSword, on 01 October 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:

I've seen examples of this with many NASA photos from both the moon and Mars.  Quite disapointing isn't it?

Edited to add that JPL image processors have gone on record stating that they make photos of mars more red than they really are.

It IS disappointing. They must assume we are blind or something.


#6    tipotep

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 11:34 PM

What is wrong with just posting them as a natural color ?

I would rather see it for what it is .... not for what NASA thinks  it should be !

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#7    Waspie_Dwarf

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Posted 01 October 2012 - 11:37 PM

View PostOverSword, on 01 October 2012 - 06:18 PM, said:

Edited to add that JPL image processors have gone on record stating that they make photos of mars more red than they really are.
You need to remember that these expensive missions are scientific NOT artistic endeavours. NASA images are taken to got the maximum scientific information not to look pretty. The reason colours are enhanced is because it shows more detail. What would be disappointing is if NASA pandered to a few moaners on the internet and missed a major discovery.

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#8    DONTEATUS

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 02:57 AM

View PostWaspie_Dwarf, on 01 October 2012 - 11:37 PM, said:

You need to remember that these expensive missions are scientific NOT artistic endeavours. NASA images are taken to got the maximum scientific information not to look pretty. The reason colours are enhanced is because it shows more detail. What would be disappointing is if NASA pandered to a few moaners on the internet and missed a major discovery.
This was the topic I was trying to find Waspie ! The orig,release on this was on the Internet and a video ,showing a guy talking about all the manlipulation ! THat NASA did ? I think not right.NASA has no reason whats so ever to alter the images !
I wonder when all this will end.

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#9    Abramelin

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 05:39 AM

View PostWaspie_Dwarf, on 01 October 2012 - 11:37 PM, said:

You need to remember that these expensive missions are scientific NOT artistic endeavours. NASA images are taken to got the maximum scientific information not to look pretty. The reason colours are enhanced is because it shows more detail. What would be disappointing is if NASA pandered to a few moaners on the internet and missed a major discovery.

Posting a true color photo wouldn't hurt, wouldn't it? Just to give people an impression how Mars really looks like. They can still use their color enhanced photos for their research.

And, btw, the OP is not about mere color enhancement.


#10    ChrLzs

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:58 AM

So, let me see if I get this straight..  Sadly I'm using a very slow connection now, so can't view the original video.

1. This is a secondhand report, of a video at Youtube.

2. Did either that site, or the linked youtube page reference the source images?

3. Did either that site, or the linked youtube page discuss whether the images were single frames, or stitched?  (I'm guessing the latter)

4. Did either that site, or the linked youtube page discuss the topics of stitching, panoramic techniques, perspective errors?  (hint, are the 'copies' truly identical, or somewhat distorted in any way?)

5. Did either that site, or the linked youtube page discuss whether this was NASA's work, or whether it was done by either outside agencies or automated software?

6. Did either that site, or the linked youtube page discuss what NASA had said when they simply ASKED them to explain?  They DID do that, didn't they?

7. Did either that site, or the linked youtube page discuss the FAQs or general information about the images?

8. Did either that site, or the linked youtube page discuss access to the original imagery, ie the stuff that is used by REAL researchers, rather than the stuff that is presented on the web in easy-to-use formats?

I think you can see where I am heading..  I've made a few wild guesses up there, but I'll lay odds that one or more of them will reveal that there is no mystery or cover up.  I don't know how many times I've heard this lame "I'm not attacking NASA, but.. look at this!!!!" stuff posted by folks without a clue about the images they are looking at, and in every single case there was absolutely (and easily proved) NO cover up by NASA, and the original images had always been freely available and could be checked.  The accusers hadn't bothered to do that, and/or didn't even know how.

NASA (or their contractors or third parties) do screw up their images sometimes (as do Google and every other agency that does a lot of image stitching, analysis, presentations on the web, etc), but I've found them to be totally up front about their stuff, and in fact are very happy to have anomalies pointed out to them.  Did these folk do that?


I'm happy to look into this properly when I'm at a better connection, but what I saw at that page gave me very good reason to suspect that the owner may have an aluminium hat...

Abramelin & Tipotep, may I ask you a question - what do you *define* as 'true colour'?  Can you point me to an example?  Space or earthly, doesn't matter...  A hint on why I ask - do you understand why cameras have 'white balance' functions?

Oversword, can you post the 'worst' example you have found, of NASA manipulation?  And can you point me to the JPL 'red enhancement' quote, please?  I'd like to see it in full context, thanks all the same..

Edited by Chrlzs, 02 October 2012 - 11:03 AM.

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#11    Abramelin

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 01:57 PM

Maybe I should ask you first, Chrlzs: are you not able to read the site and watch the video at all, or just not now?

Btw, about that true color:

The UNcorrected images of Mars look quite red, while the corrected (filtered) images look less red:

http://mars-news.de/color/blue.html

So it's just the other way round.


#12    Abramelin

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 02:10 PM

Since a couple of weeks I am using FireFox, and I found out I was unable to copy the YouTube link from that site.

OK, so I tried IE again, and it worked:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhWCC1xPRF4

Then I read a comment below that video:

Ummm... Am I the only one that noticed your source link is to a nasa similator? See a similator means similar, not actual. It's kind of like a game nasa put out to let people get an idea of operating the rover. No where on the source does nasa claim exact terrain of mars, just similar with known terrain entered for better enjoyment.

There you go, lol.


.

Edited by Abramelin, 02 October 2012 - 02:11 PM.


#13    Timonthy

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 02:15 PM

Manipulating colour for a better appearance is fine, that's not the issue here, and NASA do post examples of unaltered images also often stating if colours have been enhanced.

Was Abramelin not referring to the image being manipulated in other ways? Such as cutting and pasting of portions of the image?

I don't have time to watch the video, but if that is the case it is disappointing...

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#14    DONTEATUS

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:24 PM

Its just sad that people can run with such an Idea that NASA has something up there sleve ! Its not the Case ! Im sure of that ! The Mars photos are as they are ,Real, When will all this CT crud stop? :cry:

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#15    DONTEATUS

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Posted 02 October 2012 - 10:31 PM

View PostTimonthy, on 02 October 2012 - 02:15 PM, said:

Manipulating colour for a better appearance is fine, that's not the issue here, and NASA do post examples of unaltered images also often stating if colours have been enhanced.

Was Abramelin not referring to the image being manipulated in other ways? Such as cutting and pasting of portions of the image?

I don't have time to watch the video, but if that is the case it is disappointing...
You really need to watch the Copy & Past Video Tim tell me what you think about it? If it was released to the public then why do such a job like in the video?

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