Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


- - - - -

Poll Finds Americans Favor Ending Tax Cuts

tax polls pew research

  • Please log in to reply
97 replies to this topic

#76    questionmark

questionmark

    Cinicus Magnus

  • Member
  • 35,286 posts
  • Joined:26 Jun 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Greece and Des Moines, IA

  • In a flat world there is an explanation to everything.

Posted 26 July 2012 - 03:23 PM

View Postkarmakazi, on 26 July 2012 - 03:14 PM, said:

I'm not talking about a few rich people who enjoy playing the market for the fun of it.  I'm talking about people of many different pay grades, who have 401k or retirement plans which frequently include bond investments as a stable long term, low risk growth option.  People whose needs will not be covered by social security.

That particular debt, when sold as bonds to US Citizens, pays interest to those citizens and that is how their money is grown.  I don't have a problem with that.  Debt to foreign countries... yes that should be eliminated.

You don't have a right to have the general taxpayer subsidizing your savings. The government should have 0% debt as a rule, only be able to make debts in national emergencies and have to pay down the debt within the shortest time possible. My term would be in no more than 4 years. If they can't do that they would have to increase taxes to pay down the debt.

A skeptic is a well informed believer and a pessimist a well informed optimist
The most dangerous views of the world are from those who have never seen it. ~ Alexander v. Humboldt
If you want to bulls**t me please do it so that it takes me more than a minute to find out

about me

#77    Bama13

Bama13

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,622 posts
  • Joined:09 Aug 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Just Southeast of God's country

Posted 26 July 2012 - 03:24 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 26 July 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

You don't have a right to have the general taxpayer subsidizing your savings. The government should have 0% debt as a rule, only be able to make debts in national emergencies and have to pay down the debt within the shortest time possible. My term would be in no more than 4 years. If they can't do that they would have to increase taxes to pay down the debt.

Or cut spending. Why is raise taxes always the answer?

" Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything —you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him" - Robert Heinlein

#78    questionmark

questionmark

    Cinicus Magnus

  • Member
  • 35,286 posts
  • Joined:26 Jun 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Greece and Des Moines, IA

  • In a flat world there is an explanation to everything.

Posted 26 July 2012 - 03:28 PM

View PostBama13, on 26 July 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

Or cut spending. Why is raise taxes always the answer?

If you made debts because you have a national emergency you hardly can cut spending, if that was the solution you would not make any debts to start with.

A skeptic is a well informed believer and a pessimist a well informed optimist
The most dangerous views of the world are from those who have never seen it. ~ Alexander v. Humboldt
If you want to bulls**t me please do it so that it takes me more than a minute to find out

about me

#79    karmakazi

karmakazi

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,047 posts
  • Joined:27 May 2011
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Phoenix, Arizona

  • Oh I am a giddy goat!

Posted 26 July 2012 - 03:48 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 26 July 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

You don't have a right to have the general taxpayer subsidizing your savings. The government should have 0% debt as a rule, only be able to make debts in national emergencies and have to pay down the debt within the shortest time possible. My term would be in no more than 4 years. If they can't do that they would have to increase taxes to pay down the debt.

It would take both raising taxes and cutting spending severely to pay down the debt to 0 in four years.  Some people would flip out if taxes were raised, some would flip out if spending was cut, and some would flip out about either or.

People in this country want their cake and want to eat it too, and so the debt continues.

“When I do good, I feel good. When I do bad, I feel bad. That’s my religion.” – Abraham Lincoln

“You must do the thing you think you cannot do.” – Eleanor Roosevelt

“One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it’s worth watching.” – Unknown

#80    questionmark

questionmark

    Cinicus Magnus

  • Member
  • 35,286 posts
  • Joined:26 Jun 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Greece and Des Moines, IA

  • In a flat world there is an explanation to everything.

Posted 26 July 2012 - 05:19 PM

View Postkarmakazi, on 26 July 2012 - 03:48 PM, said:

It would take both raising taxes and cutting spending severely to pay down the debt to 0 in four years.  Some people would flip out if taxes were raised, some would flip out if spending was cut, and some would flip out about either or.

People in this country want their cake and want to eat it too, and so the debt continues.

This time they will most likely default, maybe not on the next electoral cycle but after that 100%.

I am talking about the future as there is nothing to fix in the present anymore.

A skeptic is a well informed believer and a pessimist a well informed optimist
The most dangerous views of the world are from those who have never seen it. ~ Alexander v. Humboldt
If you want to bulls**t me please do it so that it takes me more than a minute to find out

about me

#81    Bama13

Bama13

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,622 posts
  • Joined:09 Aug 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Just Southeast of God's country

Posted 26 July 2012 - 05:26 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 26 July 2012 - 03:28 PM, said:

If you made debts because you have a national emergency you hardly can cut spending, if that was the solution you would not make any debts to start with.

So once you go into the debt the only solution is to make more money?
Once the national emergency is over why would it be impossible to cut spending?

Not an expert on debt because I have never had any. No credit cards, loans, nothing. I don't even have a credit rating. Yet I manage to live a pretty darn good life. Got all the things I need and some of the things I want.

" Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything —you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him" - Robert Heinlein

#82    questionmark

questionmark

    Cinicus Magnus

  • Member
  • 35,286 posts
  • Joined:26 Jun 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Greece and Des Moines, IA

  • In a flat world there is an explanation to everything.

Posted 26 July 2012 - 05:30 PM

View PostBama13, on 26 July 2012 - 05:26 PM, said:

So once you go into the debt the only solution is to make more money?
Once the national emergency is over why would it be impossible to cut spending?

Not an expert on debt because I have never had any. No credit cards, loans, nothing. I don't even have a credit rating. Yet I manage to live a pretty darn good life. Got all the things I need and some of the things I want.

OK, again: I said NO debt, unless there is a national emergency. If that happens the debt has to be paid down in 4 years and if that is not possible taxes are to be raised to pay down the debt within the shortest time possible.

What is so difficult to understand?

A skeptic is a well informed believer and a pessimist a well informed optimist
The most dangerous views of the world are from those who have never seen it. ~ Alexander v. Humboldt
If you want to bulls**t me please do it so that it takes me more than a minute to find out

about me

#83    karmakazi

karmakazi

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,047 posts
  • Joined:27 May 2011
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:Phoenix, Arizona

  • Oh I am a giddy goat!

Posted 26 July 2012 - 05:55 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 26 July 2012 - 05:19 PM, said:

This time they will most likely default, maybe not on the next electoral cycle but after that 100%.

I am talking about the future as there is nothing to fix in the present anymore.

Oh, ok, I thought we were talking about reducing the debt of the present system.

If that were set aside (or imploded as is more likely) then I agree, there shouldn't be any debt created in the first place.

“When I do good, I feel good. When I do bad, I feel bad. That’s my religion.” – Abraham Lincoln

“You must do the thing you think you cannot do.” – Eleanor Roosevelt

“One day your life will flash before your eyes. Make sure it’s worth watching.” – Unknown

#84    Bama13

Bama13

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,622 posts
  • Joined:09 Aug 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Just Southeast of God's country

Posted 26 July 2012 - 06:05 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 26 July 2012 - 05:30 PM, said:

OK, again: I said NO debt, unless there is a national emergency. If that happens the debt has to be paid down in 4 years and if that is not possible taxes are to be raised to pay down the debt within the shortest time possible.

What is so difficult to understand?

I am saying that we could also pay the debt down by cutting spending. You act as if there is only one way to pay the debt (raise taxes). I am saying there are at least two ways (raise taxes and/or cut spending).

I think we should start by cutting spending then, if we still need more revenues, raising taxes. But when we raise taxes lets raise them on everyone, not just the "rich". We can raise them more on the "rich", but everyone needs to contribute.

Edited by Bama13, 26 July 2012 - 06:10 PM.

" Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything —you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him" - Robert Heinlein

#85    questionmark

questionmark

    Cinicus Magnus

  • Member
  • 35,286 posts
  • Joined:26 Jun 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Greece and Des Moines, IA

  • In a flat world there is an explanation to everything.

Posted 26 July 2012 - 06:11 PM

View PostBama13, on 26 July 2012 - 06:05 PM, said:

I am saying that we could also pay the debt down by cutting spending. You act as if there is only one way to pay the debt (raise taxes). I am saying there are at least two ways (raise taxes and/or cut spending).

I think we should start by cutting spending then, if we still need more revenues, raising taxes. But when we raise taxes lets raise them on everyone, not just the "rich". We can raise them more on the "rich", but everyone needs to contribute.

If you can quit spending you don't have a national emergency.

A skeptic is a well informed believer and a pessimist a well informed optimist
The most dangerous views of the world are from those who have never seen it. ~ Alexander v. Humboldt
If you want to bulls**t me please do it so that it takes me more than a minute to find out

about me

#86    Bama13

Bama13

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,622 posts
  • Joined:09 Aug 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Just Southeast of God's country

Posted 26 July 2012 - 06:27 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 26 July 2012 - 06:11 PM, said:

If you can quit spending you don't have a national emergency.

You can't quit spending, you can reduce spending. If you reduced spending you could still have a national emergency. I'm not saying we wouldn't need to raise taxes, just that we should see how much spending we can cut before we decide how much additional revenue we need.

" Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked; contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything —you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him" - Robert Heinlein

#87    ranrod

ranrod

    Astral Projection

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 726 posts
  • Joined:29 Aug 2009

Posted 27 July 2012 - 05:04 AM

View Postquestionmark, on 26 July 2012 - 03:23 PM, said:

You don't have a right to have the general taxpayer subsidizing your savings. The government should have 0% debt as a rule, only be able to make debts in national emergencies and have to pay down the debt within the shortest time possible. My term would be in no more than 4 years. If they can't do that they would have to increase taxes to pay down the debt.
Questionmark, I think the people who are affected by bonds or treasury securities through IRAs, 401k, or other pension and retirement plans is high.  Maybe 35% of the people?  The trickle down effect is immense too as those same bonds and treasury securities are held by not only individuals but corporations, state and local governments, the federal reserve, and foreign governments.  I've heard economists say that if we pay the debt to zero, it would be an economic disaster.  Some Debt is supposed to be a great tool to stimulate economic growth.  Not being versed in economics, I don't know all the reasons why.  Maybe someone here can help?
At any rate, I think the debt should be as low as possible without negatively affecting the economy.  Don't know where that would place our national debt at.


#88    questionmark

questionmark

    Cinicus Magnus

  • Member
  • 35,286 posts
  • Joined:26 Jun 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Greece and Des Moines, IA

  • In a flat world there is an explanation to everything.

Posted 27 July 2012 - 02:07 PM

View Postranrod, on 27 July 2012 - 05:04 AM, said:

Questionmark, I think the people who are affected by bonds or treasury securities through IRAs, 401k, or other pension and retirement plans is high.  Maybe 35% of the people?  The trickle down effect is immense too as those same bonds and treasury securities are held by not only individuals but corporations, state and local governments, the federal reserve, and foreign governments.  I've heard economists say that if we pay the debt to zero, it would be an economic disaster.  Some Debt is supposed to be a great tool to stimulate economic growth.  Not being versed in economics, I don't know all the reasons why.  Maybe someone here can help?
At any rate, I think the debt should be as low as possible without negatively affecting the economy.  Don't know where that would place our national debt at.

That is not a trickle down that is a right out subsidy if there is no need for the government to have debts. And that my friend falls under the chapter fraud, waste and abuse. Regardless of how many benefit.

A skeptic is a well informed believer and a pessimist a well informed optimist
The most dangerous views of the world are from those who have never seen it. ~ Alexander v. Humboldt
If you want to bulls**t me please do it so that it takes me more than a minute to find out

about me

#89    preacherman76

preacherman76

    Humble Servent

  • Member
  • 10,827 posts
  • Joined:16 Jul 2007
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:Parts Unknown

Posted 27 July 2012 - 10:24 PM

View Postquestionmark, on 26 July 2012 - 05:30 PM, said:

OK, again: I said NO debt, unless there is a national emergency. If that happens the debt has to be paid down in 4 years and if that is not possible taxes are to be raised to pay down the debt within the shortest time possible.

What is so difficult to understand?

There are a few things that are difficult to understand. Telling people that they have to pay more, while this government is invading other countries, at this point for no aparent reason what so ever to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars, is a little hard to swallow. In fact the list of things this government is wasting money on is down right criminal. The list is long, and is insane. Im thinking with some better financial skills we could be doing just fine.

Some things are true, even if you dont believe them.

#90    Tiggs

Tiggs

    Relax. It's only me.

  • 9,077 posts
  • Joined:30 Jan 2005
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Orange County, California

  • Universe Service Pack 2 still needs patching.

Posted 28 July 2012 - 06:27 PM

View Postpreacherman76, on 27 July 2012 - 10:24 PM, said:

There are a few things that are difficult to understand. Telling people that they have to pay more, while this government is invading other countries, at this point for no aparent reason what so ever to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars, is a little hard to swallow.

Which country do you believe this government has invaded for no apparent reason whatsoever?


"What happens when an irresistible force meets an immovable object?" - Tiggs vs PA - Did Jesus Really exist? - The Formal Debate:
HERE
Posted Image





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users