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Formosan clouded leopard extinct


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#16    Bavarian Raven

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 01:42 PM

To be fair, are they not just a subspecies of the mainland clouded leopard (while still sad, not as sad as a whole species going extinct).

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As was already said above - yes you haven't done a thing, a lot of us haven't - and THIS is exactly the problem. This is the prevailing mentality around the globe, I haven't done a thing... but it cuts both ways.

We'll get right on with invading China. :unsure2:


#17    TheSpoonyOne

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Posted 04 May 2013 - 10:46 PM

View PostMarcin, on 03 May 2013 - 10:47 PM, said:

As was already said above - yes you haven't done a thing, a lot of us haven't - and THIS is exactly the problem. This is the prevailing mentality around the globe, I haven't done a thing... but it cuts both ways.

Sure, you, me, us, we haven't done anything WRONG to cause this... on the flip side, we haven't done anything to stop it either, we all pull sad faces, throw comments around, point fingers in other direction and move on, hoping that someone somewhere will do something so we don't have to... in mean time, plenty of other fellow species to this cat are being hunted down to dead beat because there never was enough pressure from anywhere in particular to really put a stop to it, just a lot of small talk.

That's you speaking, my family and I have made donations to organisations that aim to help preserve endangered animals in the past, I'm not a millionare so I can't donate masses of money, but I do what little I can spare that isn't needed for bills etc....

Sorry, but that's all I, a random Englishman living in his little part of the world, can do, I don't have the power to make much more of an impact than that, but the governments of the countries where these animals actually live...lived...could have done more, and can still do more. All I'm saying is that I am getting tired of adverts and donations, which I'm fairly certain aren't shown in many parts of the world that aren't in the Western hemisphere, while the countries that these animals are indigenous to never seem to be able to stop their extinction, that's what annoys me.


#18    Still Waters

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 02:42 PM

The next thing we'll read in the news will probably be about scientists trying to clone them. Why can't things be done to try harder to SAVE them while they're still alive instead of trying to bring them back once they've gone extinct. It's a sad state of affairs when we allow any creature to die off.

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#19    Mnemonix

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 02:47 PM

Clouded leopards are becoming rarer here, hopefully they won't share the same fate...


#20    redhen

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Posted 05 May 2013 - 05:10 PM

View PostTheSpoonyOne, on 04 May 2013 - 10:46 PM, said:

Sorry, but that's all I, a random Englishman living in his little part of the world, can do, I don't have the power to make much more of an impact than that, but the governments of the countries where these animals actually live...lived...could have done more, and can still do more. All I'm saying is that I am getting tired of adverts and donations, which I'm fairly certain aren't shown in many parts of the world that aren't in the Western hemisphere, while the countries that these animals are indigenous to never seem to be able to stop their extinction, that's what annoys me.

I've seen some academic and popular articles about the cultural differences that are seen when it comes to environmental issues. Sad to day, but it seems that animal welfare and environmental concerns in general are a "white thing".

I wish I still had access to scholarly databases, there are many papers with titles along the line of "Racial/Ethnic Group Attitudes Toward Environmental Protection in California: Is “Environmentalism” Still a White Phenomenon? "

This problem goes beyond just the regular, routine government corruption and ineptitude in many 3rd world nations.

The solution? Dammed if I know.  Maybe some serious attachments to the usual financial and military aid the West gives these countries? That might be a start. But that doesn't address the racial attitudes found in the above Western studies.


#21    Hawkin

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 04:17 AM

I don't like to sound gloomy but we humans are responsible for animal extinctions and deforestation of our planet and can't seem to live in harmony with nature. Our population keeps increasing while other species decrease. We destroy habitat for urban development for a growing population. I believe that nature will take care of that problem and someday thin out the herd.


#22    redhen

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 01:49 PM

View PostHawkin, on 06 May 2013 - 04:17 AM, said:

I believe that nature will take care of that problem and someday thin out the herd.

By destroying biodiversity we are sawing off the tree branch that we're sitting on.


#23    Hawkin

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 03:37 PM

View Postredhen, on 06 May 2013 - 01:49 PM, said:

By destroying biodiversity we are sawing off the tree branch that we're sitting on.

Good link. Yes a lot of people are unaware of what's happening to there planet. They go about there daily lives
and don't give any thought about their children or grandchild's future. I know in some western countries family
sizes have been reduced to 1-3 children but their are 3rd world and developing nations that have large families.
And migrants come to western countries increasing the populations there.

I've notice on tv shows that in Florida housing development has encroached on the Everglades and the new
residents there are always calling pest control specialist yo remove alligators and snakes that venture around their home.

It's good to have some skepticism so you won't be gullible & naïve. But to much of it can make you arrogant & egotistical.

#24    TheSpoonyOne

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 11:41 PM

View Postredhen, on 05 May 2013 - 05:10 PM, said:

I've seen some academic and popular articles about the cultural differences that are seen when it comes to environmental issues. Sad to day, but it seems that animal welfare and environmental concerns in general are a "white thing".

I wish I still had access to scholarly databases, there are many papers with titles along the line of "Racial/Ethnic Group Attitudes Toward Environmental Protection in California: Is “Environmentalism” Still a White Phenomenon? "

This problem goes beyond just the regular, routine government corruption and ineptitude in many 3rd world nations.

The solution? Dammed if I know.  Maybe some serious attachments to the usual financial and military aid the West gives these countries? That might be a start. But that doesn't address the racial attitudes found in the above Western studies.

Interesting, thanks for the links!


#25    evancj

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 12:30 AM

View Postredhen, on 05 May 2013 - 05:10 PM, said:

I've seen some academic and popular articles about the cultural differences that are seen when it comes to environmental issues. Sad to day, but it seems that animal welfare and environmental concerns in general are a "white thing".

I wish I still had access to scholarly databases, there are many papers with titles along the line of "Racial/Ethnic Group Attitudes Toward Environmental Protection in California: Is “Environmentalism” Still a White Phenomenon? "

This problem goes beyond just the regular, routine government corruption and ineptitude in many 3rd world nations.

The solution? Dammed if I know.  Maybe some serious attachments to the usual financial and military aid the West gives these countries? That might be a start. But that doesn't address the racial attitudes found in the above Western studies.

I wonder if it is not so much a racial/ethnic thing and rather more a financial/economic thing. There is definitely an educational component, or lack there of here, which also translates into a financial/economic thing.


#26    redhen

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 01:37 AM

View Postevancj, on 07 May 2013 - 12:30 AM, said:

I wonder if it is not so much a racial/ethnic thing and rather more a financial/economic thing. There is definitely an educational component, or lack there of here, which also translates into a financial/economic thing.

I think you have a valid point. I would find it hard to believe that there's some sort of "green" gene that only is found in Caucasians. I could imagine that the priority of environmental/animal welfare issues are rather far down the list in societies that exist hand to mouth, no matter what ethnicity.

But I still think these studies are on to something. Whenever you look at an environmental protest it does seem to be predominately white kids. From my interests in animal rights/welfare I know that the first animal cruelty legislation and organizations were created in Britain. And they were sorely needed. Caucasians are certainly just as susceptible to animal cruelty and environmental destruction. Perhaps it just takes time.

I suppose it's easy for Europeans to complain about people in developing countries trashing the countryside and killing and selling anything that moves. But don't forget, Europeans and no one else are responsible for exterminating all large European mammals that might be seen as a threat or competitor.


#27    evancj

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 12:21 AM

View Postredhen, on 07 May 2013 - 01:37 AM, said:

I think you have a valid point. I would find it hard to believe that there's some sort of "green" gene that only is found in Caucasians. I could imagine that the priority of environmental/animal welfare issues are rather far down the list in societies that exist hand to mouth, no matter what ethnicity.

But I still think these studies are on to something. Whenever you look at an environmental protest it does seem to be predominately white kids. From my interests in animal rights/welfare I know that the first animal cruelty legislation and organizations were created in Britain. And they were sorely needed. Caucasians are certainly just as susceptible to animal cruelty and environmental destruction. Perhaps it just takes time.

I suppose it's easy for Europeans to complain about people in developing countries trashing the countryside and killing and selling anything that moves. But don't forget, Europeans and no one else are responsible for exterminating all large European mammals that might be seen as a threat or competitor.

Relatively speaking, I think it was only recently that we westerners had the wealth, and time for the luxury of pondering the welfare of our fellow nonhuman beings, and enjoying them for what they are, and the knowledge of their existence, freedom, and beauty.

I find it a bit ironic that we amassed our wealth and resulting leisure time to worry about such things by destroying whole ecosystems, and exterminating entire species.


#28    Abramelin

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Posted 08 May 2013 - 03:59 PM

View Postjpjoe, on 03 May 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

Reality, a lot of 'Chinese' (I know this is Taiwan) business people don't care whether they destroy natural ecosystems or not, as long as there is money in it. This tradition of money-first is sickening and it really needs to end!

I expect it will end: it will be the moment we will start hunt each other when everything else is gone.





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